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Tip.it Times 24 January 2010


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I must admit that I've only played on FunOrb a couple of times, but it seemed to be a similar format to something like Pogo where the accomplishments made in one game do not transfer over to any of the other games. If this is the case, I wouldn't see how paying exclusively for 'Arcanists' would give that player any advantages in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

After the paper-thin explanation Jagex gave about micro-transactions, I used their own words and actions in the past with Runescape to illustrate a comparison to RWT. It's crucial to note that this is a matter of opinion. If you insist no comparison exists, then my argument is irrelevant to you. While these games have their own separate identities, they are still fostered by one company: Jagex. I have a hard time compartmentalizing them into each game. I do feel that what they've said to us in the past has some bearing on their future games, otherwise how do we know what to expect? I know this is an extreme example, but what if Nickelodeon decided to start publishing smut films after what their consumers have come to expect from their name all of these years? If what they said was just a reason for lacking their own shop at the time, then that means they were just shoveling excuses at us to gain sympathy. I don't think it's as cynical as that. I believe, similar to what you explained, that at some point the business grew and they began to rethink their philosophy.

 

In Runescape, members have access to more areas, equipment, and training methods. However, members tend to compete with other members, while F2P competes with its own community. They may unfortunately share the same hi-scores list, but they don't share the same battlefield. If a member chooses to enter a F2P server, they must play by F2P rules. That means any members items and areas are locked. In WoL, there is no separation. If I'm buying JCredits, then I'm expecting an advantage over free players. And if I'm not getting an advantage, then I'm going to be complaining. Eventually, I'll quit buying JCredits. So if Jagex does plan to make money off of JCredits, then I'm not buying any argument that says they won't give you any tactical advantage. Especially when you're in the same arena as free players. It would be more comparable to membership in Runescape....if I could use my d claws in a F2P world.

 

In the end, it is a matter of opinion. I do view this payment method as comparable to buying gp from a third party, because, even as Jagex seemed to have implied, the only difference is you are buying it from Jagex instead. This was a longer response than I expected to write, but I do thank you for debating with me. Now I have to go check my resources. (Geez...whose the real hypocrite here? :grin: )

 

No hard feelings :)

 

Well on FunOrb, achievements from all games are added up to form the Orb Points scoretables. Arcanists (the game with the most achievements) has about 17k orb points available; I, at the bottom of the front page, have over 220k orb points. The highest f2p player has about 180k orb points. It is definitely possible to compete up to a certain point in most games, but to reach the top you do have to pay. It's sort of analogous to having more skills to train in RuneScape; at 1400 total, a member has all level 58-59 stats, while a f2p player has all level 87 stats. It's much easier to raise a skill from 58 to 59 than from 87 to 88, and likewise, it's harder to get orb points at the upper levels as a f2p player because only harder ones are left. Within each game, the advantage given by membership varies hugely: In Arcanists, f2p players have only a spellbook and a half to work with and no access to rated games, while Zombie Dawn Multiplayer is completely free.

 

I do agree that Jagex's policies vary over time. In 2003 they were nothing but a one-product company with a huge MMORPG. They have since entered the mini-game, mobile device, and now RTS markets. For them to say in 2003 that they would ever be individually selling a game that's about a hundredth of the size of RuneScape would have been absurd. Since then the price for RuneScape has gone up and they've just now entered a massive period of transition. Whether we like it or not, all of their products are changing: RuneScape's updates are generally geared for higher and higher levels, FunOrb has switched to developing larger and larger games that could stand alone, and even the free Bouncedown app is getting updates. Whatever Jagex has said in the past about RuneScape can no longer be fairly held to anything except RuneScape. You could argue that MMG is breaking a lot of the precedents Andrew set up first, like not talking to players about updates and not making promises ingame, and about not wasting employee time by even logging in, but no one does because they like those changes. Keeping the same system would definitely not work in a game that got rid of its customer support.

 

Something said at a time when Jagex's only product was RuneScape (and where it would be their only product for another 5 years) really shouldn't limit what they do with other products. If Jagex is known as a MMORPG maker, why are they even trying to promote these games in the first place? Truth is they are branching off into different directions and they're willing to try something they've always considered doing now that they've been given the freedom to do so.

 

I can't stress enough that as far as I could tell from looking through the shop, WoL offers nothing to help in battle other than the ability to increase your soldiers' proficiency at a faster rate. It's just the same as what RuneScape used to be like - those who could afford to keep returning in rune sets usually won the war. Now with safe battles it is much the same, but now pizzas and druidic robes and the like offer increasingly expensive options for use in f2p, options that p2p players can obtain much more rapidly than f2p players.

 

I guess the key difference here is whether you see giving money to Jagex and giving money to a third party as the same thing. For me and others it will never be the same because everyone has an equal opportunity, if not the equal means, to take advantage of what's being offered with no fear of being banned. I won't personally be paying for WoL, but I simply can't see paying Jagex to be able to play in the upper divisions of the game as I see paying gold farmers for flat out currency.

 

 

Yeah, this is actually a significant issue in Dungeon Assault, it's just that nobody plays Dungeon Assault. :-s

 

Luckily, dungeon assault now has enough dungeons so that you can easily make it up to about 20,000 renown (the highest you need to be for any renown-based achievements) with f2p units. Trying to go above that is brutal though - f2p have access to the best trap but not the best monster, and have access to only one really great raider. I think that it would be fair to say that f2p can compete with anyone evenly up to a certain point (you cannot use certain raiders/traps until you pass renown barriers) and then they either must make do with what they have or buy membership to compete better. In WoL a similar pattern should emerge. Hopefully there is some mechanic like the dungeon assault raiding timer so that paying players cannot pick on others very easily.

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i have one thing to say to this article:

JAGEX DID NOT DEVELOP THIS GAME!

JAGEX DID NOT DEVELOP THIS GAME!

JAGEX DID NOT DEVELOP THIS GAME!

Ok, well, thats 3. but anyway, yeah, they just translated and published it. and as for most fo the items, they just speed things up. Also, in one of their interviews, thay said that they were looking into micro transactions in other games. Guess what? This is that other game.

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I have to say that I've been reading Tip.it Times for years and the second article of this issue is the first that has ever motivated me to discuss anything.

 

Great stuff, whoever wrote it was far too optimistic about the world, other than that it was a great piece.

 

I must say that this whole idea is far more predetermined than you're making it out to be, very few players go from rags to riches in Runescape; and those who do were never really in rags to begin with. We all start out relatively the same, and it takes different people different amounts of time to blossom into good players. It is only when you give in to living in rags that you become.... well... a failure in this sense.

 

Your placement at a given time can only benefit you so much (disregarding the Party room) all of Runescape's statistics even out over a long enough scale. This is the credo of any true pvm enthusiast, and the bible for every merchant.

 

Although, this pales in comparison to certain players, I have controlled at times billions in Runescape (in between skilling binges). Mostly from merchanting, and although I'm new to this system (the Tip.it forums) I can tell you that this money doesn't come out of thin air- for every mil a mercher makes a noob is born- this cash comes out of your pockets now whether you know it or not. The fact is that with certain players reaching all the way up into the 40 and 50 billion range there just isn't enough gp to reach every player in Runescape. Sure you can maintain a comfortable amount, but just look at the price changes effecting your items- every time an item drops and you sell you're losing money, and every time an item raises and you buy, you're making them money (normally at your or somebody else' expense). I know this after gaining a fairly deep understanding of economics, while they may be clouded in mystery in the Real World they are much more transparent in Runescape.

 

From the time you were level 3 other players have been profiting off of you.

 

Now, it is very possible to make some fairly massive amounts of money now, at any level; but this isn't going to be a guide. In a little over two weeks of lax work I took my level 3 account and turned it into a member with 70 range 70 pray and about 10m coin. As bad an example as people could claim this to be I feel that it brings up a valid point: predestination in Runescape is not a myth. Some people simply don't have the tolerance to put up with this sort of thing, I nearly lost my sanity giving that 'thing' 55 agility without being able to use any half-decent courses- but it happened anyway.

 

Yet this isn't 'rich' and will never be 'rich'. There are very very few solo opportunities to become as rich as these certain players because of the fact that they profit off the masses, which regardless of your net wealth will include you.

 

In the end you can get an Armadyl Godsword, a Dragon Hatchet, or even a Partyhat with enough effort, and even that 99 you've had your eye on; but you'll never be "that guy". This, however, is not rich- these accomplishments are in the scope of at least 60% of players if not more (excluding the partyhat due to obvious limitations). Regardless of the choices that you make everyone has an aptitude and only a few will reach the apex of this game. A bit of luck never hurt anyone, but it never created any of the great players, and the lack of it never stopped any of the truly great players either. This world only comes out one way.

 

It would take the hand of god to send the "Average Joe-Runescape-Player" to such heights. But don't fret, there may be no such thing as 'rich enough' but you can at least get comfortable with your wad. It really isn't your fault you can't get rich. So don't worry, you aren't crazy, we ARE conspiring against you.

 

Note that I'm not saying this is wrong. Don't expect me to respond either.

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About the second article, I agree with it. It's your decision, fun or hard work.

 

However, you forgot that most people do not understand that GP is the ultimate goal in this game, that is if you have GP you can train skills fast. Instead of making GP (or having fun in minigames) these people tend to use efficient (fool's theory) methods to earn XP in skills. That's why they achieve all 60s way after a player that focuses on GP has 99 woodcutting, magic, ranged and hunter, while keeping other skills fairly high.

 

I know, many people would consider me rich, although all I do is log in once a week to get free load of instant XP from circus and ToG (however, due to tog xp gain requirements I can do it only once per 3 weeks). Occasionally, like once per 6 weeks, I alch a few hundred air b staves, take a d axe, go to miscleannia, cut the maples back to 100% and top up the investment back to 7,5m, while stashing the leftover cash to the bank. I keep thinking that it's been over 3 months since I last collected produced items, but I really CBA to do that.

I bought bgs just before it was expected to crash (it didn't.), and just by having it (I also kept lending it while it was still possible, when items had floor values, but I don't want to include that) I already earned over 6m. Money in this game comes with 0 effort, so it's really only the player's decision to be poor or to be rich.

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I must admit that I've only played on FunOrb a couple of times, but it seemed to be a similar format to something like Pogo where the accomplishments made in one game do not transfer over to any of the other games. If this is the case, I wouldn't see how paying exclusively for 'Arcanists' would give that player any advantages in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

After the paper-thin explanation Jagex gave about micro-transactions, I used their own words and actions in the past with Runescape to illustrate a comparison to RWT. It's crucial to note that this is a matter of opinion. If you insist no comparison exists, then my argument is irrelevant to you. While these games have their own separate identities, they are still fostered by one company: Jagex. I have a hard time compartmentalizing them into each game. I do feel that what they've said to us in the past has some bearing on their future games, otherwise how do we know what to expect? I know this is an extreme example, but what if Nickelodeon decided to start publishing smut films after what their consumers have come to expect from their name all of these years? If what they said was just a reason for lacking their own shop at the time, then that means they were just shoveling excuses at us to gain sympathy. I don't think it's as cynical as that. I believe, similar to what you explained, that at some point the business grew and they began to rethink their philosophy.

 

In Runescape, members have access to more areas, equipment, and training methods. However, members tend to compete with other members, while F2P competes with its own community. They may unfortunately share the same hi-scores list, but they don't share the same battlefield. If a member chooses to enter a F2P server, they must play by F2P rules. That means any members items and areas are locked. In WoL, there is no separation. If I'm buying JCredits, then I'm expecting an advantage over free players. And if I'm not getting an advantage, then I'm going to be complaining. Eventually, I'll quit buying JCredits. So if Jagex does plan to make money off of JCredits, then I'm not buying any argument that says they won't give you any tactical advantage. Especially when you're in the same arena as free players. It would be more comparable to membership in Runescape....if I could use my d claws in a F2P world.

 

In the end, it is a matter of opinion. I do view this payment method as comparable to buying gp from a third party, because, even as Jagex seemed to have implied, the only difference is you are buying it from Jagex instead. This was a longer response than I expected to write, but I do thank you for debating with me. Now I have to go check my resources. (Geez...whose the real hypocrite here? :grin: )

 

No hard feelings :)

 

Well on FunOrb, achievements from all games are added up to form the Orb Points scoretables. Arcanists (the game with the most achievements) has about 17k orb points available; I, at the bottom of the front page, have over 220k orb points. The highest f2p player has about 180k orb points. It is definitely possible to compete up to a certain point in most games, but to reach the top you do have to pay. It's sort of analogous to having more skills to train in RuneScape; at 1400 total, a member has all level 58-59 stats, while a f2p player has all level 87 stats. It's much easier to raise a skill from 58 to 59 than from 87 to 88, and likewise, it's harder to get orb points at the upper levels as a f2p player because only harder ones are left. Within each game, the advantage given by membership varies hugely: In Arcanists, f2p players have only a spellbook and a half to work with and no access to rated games, while Zombie Dawn Multiplayer is completely free.

 

I do agree that Jagex's policies vary over time. In 2003 they were nothing but a one-product company with a huge MMORPG. They have since entered the mini-game, mobile device, and now RTS markets. For them to say in 2003 that they would ever be individually selling a game that's about a hundredth of the size of RuneScape would have been absurd. Since then the price for RuneScape has gone up and they've just now entered a massive period of transition. Whether we like it or not, all of their products are changing: RuneScape's updates are generally geared for higher and higher levels, FunOrb has switched to developing larger and larger games that could stand alone, and even the free Bouncedown app is getting updates. Whatever Jagex has said in the past about RuneScape can no longer be fairly held to anything except RuneScape. You could argue that MMG is breaking a lot of the precedents Andrew set up first, like not talking to players about updates and not making promises ingame, and about not wasting employee time by even logging in, but no one does because they like those changes. Keeping the same system would definitely not work in a game that got rid of its customer support.

 

Something said at a time when Jagex's only product was RuneScape (and where it would be their only product for another 5 years) really shouldn't limit what they do with other products. If Jagex is known as a MMORPG maker, why are they even trying to promote these games in the first place? Truth is they are branching off into different directions and they're willing to try something they've always considered doing now that they've been given the freedom to do so.

 

I can't stress enough that as far as I could tell from looking through the shop, WoL offers nothing to help in battle other than the ability to increase your soldiers' proficiency at a faster rate. It's just the same as what RuneScape used to be like - those who could afford to keep returning in rune sets usually won the war. Now with safe battles it is much the same, but now pizzas and druidic robes and the like offer increasingly expensive options for use in f2p, options that p2p players can obtain much more rapidly than f2p players.

 

I guess the key difference here is whether you see giving money to Jagex and giving money to a third party as the same thing. For me and others it will never be the same because everyone has an equal opportunity, if not the equal means, to take advantage of what's being offered with no fear of being banned. I won't personally be paying for WoL, but I simply can't see paying Jagex to be able to play in the upper divisions of the game as I see paying gold farmers for flat out currency.

 

 

Yeah, this is actually a significant issue in Dungeon Assault, it's just that nobody plays Dungeon Assault. :-s

 

Luckily, dungeon assault now has enough dungeons so that you can easily make it up to about 20,000 renown (the highest you need to be for any renown-based achievements) with f2p units. Trying to go above that is brutal though - f2p have access to the best trap but not the best monster, and have access to only one really great raider. I think that it would be fair to say that f2p can compete with anyone evenly up to a certain point (you cannot use certain raiders/traps until you pass renown barriers) and then they either must make do with what they have or buy membership to compete better. In WoL a similar pattern should emerge. Hopefully there is some mechanic like the dungeon assault raiding timer so that paying players cannot pick on others very easily.

 

Offtopic:

 

F2P dungeon assault has great raiders. Black Knight. Spy. I usually use two of each, even being a member. The only time I don't is if I'm charging an orb, in which case I take one Chaos Champion. But still, Black Knight/Spy combo pwns. Black Knight for monsters, Spy is great for traps. Spy is also really good for (usually) finding a really short path to the lair and knowing half the time if your going to fight a monster or a trap. To be honest, I don't find members gives that much of an advantage over free players unless your in the middle of charging an orb.

 

Ontopic: I think people just don't KNOW about all these ways to make money. They don't know how to use kingdom, about daily shops, etc.

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Buying spins make you a bad person...don't do it. It's like buying nukes for North Korea.

Well if it bothers you that the game is more fun now, then you can go cry in a corner. :shame:

your article was the equivalent of a circumcized porcupine

The only thing wrong with it is the lack of a percentage for when you need to stroke it.

 


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I don't agree with the first article at all, a company deciding to sell items in game and items being bought and sold outside of the game are completely different.

The second article was pretty good, the only thing I would like to add is that not everyone knows how to make money at a fair rate or train a skill as effectively as possible. That is why you might see one person with level 60 in agility, runecrafting, minning, and prayer, that plays just as much as another player that has, say 85 in the same skills.

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The second article (How to be rich and powerful (in Runescape)) was definitely the best article I've ever read.

I think it's %100 true about how you develop your character, you choose to be poor, you choose to be rich, you choose to die.

Bookmarked it for later reads. :)

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Who says Jagex has changed their views? Clearly this is a new and different game, and most likely has different goals for the company. It embraces a new but successful model of micro payments, which some players prefer. As long as they dont change this about runescape I dont see how anyone can fairly say they've changed their stance on this. They are a business and they make games, all of their games do not have to follow the same business model.

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Not a fan of the first article, it just seems to want to bash Jagex for some reason. From what I read it's not even going to affect RS except that the company that owns it will have more money(oh noez).

 

I liked the secone(hah) though. I've been playing on and off since beta. My character is 9 years old and I still have no 99 skills(one of them had a few in classic but he got hacked), I just started playing again and immediately made over 30m from doing random stuff the past few days. I won't have a 99 anytime soon either because it's been years since I've played and I want to play around with all the new stuff, but at the same time I've got the money to do what I want :)

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The first article to me, was sad. You can't compare those two types of RWT at all. In RuneScape, it has the potential to ruin the economy, especially if it's unregulated by Jagex (hypothetically speaking as if they were to sell gold.) In a RTS game like the game they recently released, there's no real problem that can be caused by Jagex offering upgrades for real money. They are two different game genres, one is an RPG which is based around skills, and training, and time. Where in if you were able to just use real money to buy gold from Jagex, you'd be able to get an unfair advantage over others because of that. You'd only be limited by how much cash you have in real life.

 

In the RTS they've designed, buying items with real cash does not give you an unfair advantage over other players. It's balanced. If RWT were to exist in RuneScape, it's extremely unbalanced. If you think the economy is bad now, imagine if they allowed RWT? Prices would be insanely high because there'd be so much excess gold in the economy. Prices would be so high to the point that if you don't buy gold, you probably wouldn't be able to start playing the game at all, due to the fact that most money making methods are out of reach to new players.

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The 2nd article is very well written. And pretty accurate too but luck is also important, I am saying this because i never had any... 70 Slayer... the only drop was a D'med... I actually trained WC essentially a moneymaking skill to buy my whip and guthan's and other stuff just because of my luck. I do agree its what you make of yourself and that its the effort you put in that matters but luck is also an important factor.

Before gargoyles no common Slayer task has a drop over 100k... You make the most money off the small drops that add up.

 

Second article is great. Luck is definately not a factor. Even when monsterhunting; when you have a lot of boss kills the rare drop percentage will become closer and closer to the average.

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Plus I think the whole teenage girl thing will end soon (hopefully), because my girlfriend is absolutely in love with him(she is 18), and im beginning to feel threatened by his [Justin Bieber] dashing looks.

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Great article by Trocc"something" (that pi guy).

 

It goes in hand with my vision of things, luck can be a factor in random wealth (like a party drop or a 3rd age clue reward from your first ever clue). But getting a 99 is not the result of luck. Using the money from that party drop or lucky clue to get 99 summoning or prayer does not make that 99 a lucky 99.

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I don't get why people claim the second article is excellent. Luck is as important in RuneScape as in real life. Your real life situtation greatly affects your RS wealth and power. Someone who is a rich son or relative of some king or royalty or rich businessman who he will inherit his fortune from can play RS much longer than someone from a normal family who has to study hard for a good future. So how is luck not a factor in RuneScape? Simply put, your luck in real life influences the time you can spend playing RS and how powerful you are in it. As such, I fully disagree with the second article, as it is shortsighted and does not take into account how real life circumstances affect your ingame wealth and power.

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I don't get why people claim the second article is excellent. Luck is as important in RuneScape as in real life. Your real life situtation greatly affects your RS wealth and power. Someone who is a rich son or relative of some king or royalty or rich businessman who he will inherit his fortune from can play RS much longer than someone from a normal family who has to study hard for a good future. So how is luck not a factor in RuneScape? Simply put, your luck in real life influences the time you can spend playing RS and how powerful you are in it. As such, I fully disagree with the second article, as it is shortsighted and does not take into account how real life circumstances affect your ingame wealth and power.

Well, first:

52.jpg

Just because playing Runescape is a bad idea doesn't mean the option does not exist. You always have a choice. That doesn't mean you always have a good choice.

 

But ignoring that, where you're caught is on the difference between hours played per day and hours played total. Let's say your millionaire friend plays 6 hours a day because he can afford to. Okay. In 400 days he's played for 2400 hours, or a total of 100 full days in-game. Now let's say you're a busy college student who can play for half an hour a day on average, but that's it. After the same 400 days, he's played for a total of 200 hours, less than 10 in-game days. Now, are you going to expect a player with 8.3 days in their Adventurer's Log to have the same kind of wealth as a player with 100 days in their Adventurer's Log? Of course not. The millionaire will be much richer in the game, but it has nothing to do with his real-life wealth, only the fact that he played for twelve times as long.

 

Now, I know what you're probably thinking. "The rich guy has the ability to play for twelve times longer." No he doesn't. Jagex doesn't impose a time cap on poor people that forces them to shut down their accounts after they've played for a certain number of hours. "The poor guy has to work longer to get the same amount of money." No he doesn't; the rich guy had to spend twelve times as long to get twelve times the reward.

 

Here's the thing: we don't measure our wealth gain per day. We measure it per hour of gameplay. If you think of wealth per day, you're doing it wrong. I can work for ten minutes and earn 500k. A n00b can work for 5 hours and earn 500k. If I play twenty minutes a day and earn 500k, and the n00b plays 10 hours a day and earns a mil, which of us is richer in the long run? I am (at least until the n00b decides to go look for a moneymaker that doesn't suck so bad). I'm earning 1.5m gp/hr and he's only earning 100k gp/hr.

 

As long as the rich guy and the college kid are earning the same average gp/hr during their gameplay, they'll both accumulate wealth at the same rate. 150k gp in half an hour is the same as 1.8m gp in 6 hours. I would wager that the college kid's average gp/hr is likely to be even higher, as he'll be able to spend proportionally more of his gameplay time on high-efficiency but limited activities like farming.

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First article:

I agree completely with the article. The fact that you can skip training on a game, just by throwing money at it, makes the game unfair. I remember some people suggesting that Jagex could open up old wildy worlds to those didn't sign up using credit cards. I used to reply saying Jagex didn't want exp to become buyable, but I guess that argument is no longer valid. I hope the decision of using micro-payments wasn't Jagex's to make (since the game is being developed by another company and being published by Jagex). If it was, this would simply show that they traded ethical values of for money and that Runescape might be next ...

As I've been playing War of Legends (WoL) Beta for almost a week now, I can say that you'll need to buy something called a Labour Bill every 3 days, in order to increase the amount of building projects (new building or upgrade) you can have from 2 to 5. This item costs 50 Jcredits, but is currently in promotion for 18 Jcredits. It is guessed that 10 Jecredits would cost 1$ (some people remember it from the first day of Beta, before the Jcredits store was closed off). This would put the cost of 1 month worth of Labour Bills at 18$ (if item is in promotion!). Not buying Labour Bills would be like training Woodcutting with only a bronze axe: not impossible, but painfully slow. There are even items you can buy that give an instant exp reward (kind of like lamps); 300 Jcredits will get you an item worth 100,000 exp. This game obviously targets the very rich for their main income. I think that once the Beta is finished and the Jcredits store opens up again, I'll be leaving this game without turning back. Let's hope the same doesn't happen to Runescape.

 

Second article:

I agree that one can decide whether to train a skill or just sit on their [wagon], but there's more to Runescape than saying to yourself "I'm gonna make some money today!". Luck is more involved than what the author describes.

There are monster drops who are as rare as they are expensive, but luck isn't confined to what drops you get. I count myself lucky to have found this website (since you couldn't say fan sites names in-game before). With the quest walkthroughs, I would not have had the questcape I carry today. The same could be said for guides/players who can tell you the best ways of training a skill or make money. If everyone had the same knowledge of Runescape, being rich would indeed be a matter of choice, but alas, we don't live in a perfect world. Therefore, even the most motivated player will find trouble reaching his goal, if he doesn't know how. However, this doesn't mean that knowledge alone will make you rich or high level. Anyone who is, got their by working hard (and that's also why I hate micro-payments).

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I don't get why people claim the second article is excellent. Luck is as important in RuneScape as in real life. Your real life situtation greatly affects your RS wealth and power. Someone who is a rich son or relative of some king or royalty or rich businessman who he will inherit his fortune from can play RS much longer than someone from a normal family who has to study hard for a good future. So how is luck not a factor in RuneScape? Simply put, your luck in real life influences the time you can spend playing RS and how powerful you are in it. As such, I fully disagree with the second article, as it is shortsighted and does not take into account how real life circumstances affect your ingame wealth and power.

Well, first:

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Just because playing Runescape is a bad idea doesn't mean the option does not exist. You always have a choice. That doesn't mean you always have a good choice.

 

But ignoring that, where you're caught is on the difference between hours played per day and hours played total. Let's say your millionaire friend plays 6 hours a day because he can afford to. Okay. In 400 days he's played for 2400 hours, or a total of 100 full days in-game. Now let's say you're a busy college student who can play for half an hour a day on average, but that's it. After the same 400 days, he's played for a total of 200 hours, less than 10 in-game days. Now, are you going to expect a player with 8.3 days in their Adventurer's Log to have the same kind of wealth as a player with 100 days in their Adventurer's Log? Of course not. The millionaire will be much richer in the game, but it has nothing to do with his real-life wealth, only the fact that he played for twelve times as long.

 

Now, I know what you're probably thinking. "The rich guy has the ability to play for twelve times longer." No he doesn't. Jagex doesn't impose a time cap on poor people that forces them to shut down their accounts after they've played for a certain number of hours. "The poor guy has to work longer to get the same amount of money." No he doesn't; the rich guy had to spend twelve times as long to get twelve times the reward.

 

Here's the thing: we don't measure our wealth gain per day. We measure it per hour of gameplay. If you think of wealth per day, you're doing it wrong. I can work for ten minutes and earn 500k. A n00b can work for 5 hours and earn 500k. If I play twenty minutes a day and earn 500k, and the n00b plays 10 hours a day and earns a mil, which of us is richer in the long run? I am (at least until the n00b decides to go look for a moneymaker that doesn't suck so bad). I'm earning 1.5m gp/hr and he's only earning 100k gp/hr.

 

As long as the rich guy and the college kid are earning the same average gp/hr during their gameplay, they'll both accumulate wealth at the same rate. 150k gp in half an hour is the same as 1.8m gp in 6 hours. I would wager that the college kid's average gp/hr is likely to be even higher, as he'll be able to spend proportionally more of his gameplay time on high-efficiency but limited activities like farming.

 

Ridiculous.

 

Of course a poor guy would have the ABILITY to play the same number of hours as the rich guy, but what he would have to sacrifice would be MUCH greater than the rich guy. So unless the person is incredibly passionate and zealous about the game, he won't play as much as the rich guy. You can argue that this does not invalidate the fact that the poor guy CAN play as much. However, anyone remotely familiar with experimentation, surveys and research will know you can't build your arguments on extremes. Few things are impossible, but the sacrifices and consequences along the way are so huge it wouldn't be practical to try and achieve them.

 

Everyone has 24 hours per day. The rich guy can play 6 hours per day, the poor guy can only afford to play 1/2 an hour per day. Even if the poor guy earns four, five times as much as the rich guy per hour, he'd still be poorer than the rich guy. If you play 20 minutes and earn 500k, AND you have no way to significantly increase the time you play, and the noob earns 1mil/10 hours and he CAN play 10 hours every day, obviously the noob would be richer in the long run. Unless you can play more than ~40 minutes per day, you won't be richer than the noob.

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Ridiculous.

 

Of course a poor guy would have the ABILITY to play the same number of hours as the rich guy, but what he would have to sacrifice would be MUCH greater than the rich guy. So unless the person is incredibly passionate and zealous about the game, he won't play as much as the rich guy. You can argue that this does not invalidate the fact that the poor guy CAN play as much. However, anyone remotely familiar with experimentation, surveys and research will know you can't build your arguments on extremes. Few things are impossible, but the sacrifices and consequences along the way are so huge it wouldn't be practical to try and achieve them.

 

Everyone has 24 hours per day. The rich guy can play 6 hours per day, the poor guy can only afford to play 1/2 an hour per day. Even if the poor guy earns four, five times as much as the rich guy per hour, he'd still be poorer than the rich guy. If you play 20 minutes and earn 500k, AND you have no way to significantly increase the time you play, and the noob earns 1mil/10 hours and he CAN play 10 hours every day, obviously the noob would be richer in the long run. Unless you can play more than ~40 minutes per day, you won't be richer than the noob.

Um...no duh if you have played for longer you're going to have more money and stuff. Of course if you play for longer you're going to have accumulated more money. Someone who started back in 2002 is obviously going to have more money than someone who started yesterday. The whole point is that by the time you get to the same playtime as the person who started 8 years ago, there's no reason why you couldn't be in exactly the same place they're at now. I'm not saying that you can just decide, "I want to be rich." and see a phat set miraculously appear in your bank.

 

Functionally, there's very little difference between playing longer per day and having started playing sooner. You need to keep in mind that the relevant statistic here is not total wealth/accomplishment but the rate at which it increases.

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Ridiculous.

 

Of course a poor guy would have the ABILITY to play the same number of hours as the rich guy, but what he would have to sacrifice would be MUCH greater than the rich guy. So unless the person is incredibly passionate and zealous about the game, he won't play as much as the rich guy. You can argue that this does not invalidate the fact that the poor guy CAN play as much. However, anyone remotely familiar with experimentation, surveys and research will know you can't build your arguments on extremes. Few things are impossible, but the sacrifices and consequences along the way are so huge it wouldn't be practical to try and achieve them.

 

Everyone has 24 hours per day. The rich guy can play 6 hours per day, the poor guy can only afford to play 1/2 an hour per day. Even if the poor guy earns four, five times as much as the rich guy per hour, he'd still be poorer than the rich guy. If you play 20 minutes and earn 500k, AND you have no way to significantly increase the time you play, and the noob earns 1mil/10 hours and he CAN play 10 hours every day, obviously the noob would be richer in the long run. Unless you can play more than ~40 minutes per day, you won't be richer than the noob.

Um...no duh if you have played for longer you're going to have more money and stuff. Of course if you play for longer you're going to have accumulated more money. Someone who started back in 2002 is obviously going to have more money than someone who started yesterday. The whole point is that by the time you get to the same playtime as the person who started 8 years ago, there's no reason why you couldn't be in exactly the same place they're at now. I'm not saying that you can just decide, "I want to be rich." and see a phat set miraculously appear in your bank.

 

Functionally, there's very little difference between playing longer per day and having started playing sooner. You need to keep in mind that the relevant statistic here is not total wealth/accomplishment but the rate at which it increases.

 

If a rich guy has a 100 million gp, and a noob has 100gp, the rich guy earns 10k per day, the noob earns 20k per day. The noob will take 100million/20k days to catch up, BUT keep in mind that the rich guy is still earning money. So the noob can't really catch up unless this experiment goes on and on.

 

I see your point about reaching the same amount of money as the rich guy, BUT my argument still stands - how is someone who plays half an hour a day, earning say 50k catch up with someone who has 100 million gp? He'll have to play for 2 million days to catch up. Even if your target is 10 million gp or something more realistic, you still have to play for 20 000 days, which is approximately 54 years. How possible is that? If the guy is around 15 years old, he'll have to play until he's 70 to get that amount of money. Even if he can play 2 hours on weekends and public holidays, etc, I doubt the decrease will be significant. maybe 40+ years still.

 

Making the target a million gp, you'll still have to play roughly 5 years to acculmulate that amount of wealth. And I'm sure most rich guys have far more than a million gp.

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Ridiculous.

 

Of course a poor guy would have the ABILITY to play the same number of hours as the rich guy, but what he would have to sacrifice would be MUCH greater than the rich guy. So unless the person is incredibly passionate and zealous about the game, he won't play as much as the rich guy. You can argue that this does not invalidate the fact that the poor guy CAN play as much. However, anyone remotely familiar with experimentation, surveys and research will know you can't build your arguments on extremes. Few things are impossible, but the sacrifices and consequences along the way are so huge it wouldn't be practical to try and achieve them.

 

Everyone has 24 hours per day. The rich guy can play 6 hours per day, the poor guy can only afford to play 1/2 an hour per day. Even if the poor guy earns four, five times as much as the rich guy per hour, he'd still be poorer than the rich guy. If you play 20 minutes and earn 500k, AND you have no way to significantly increase the time you play, and the noob earns 1mil/10 hours and he CAN play 10 hours every day, obviously the noob would be richer in the long run. Unless you can play more than ~40 minutes per day, you won't be richer than the noob.

Um...no duh if you have played for longer you're going to have more money and stuff. Of course if you play for longer you're going to have accumulated more money. Someone who started back in 2002 is obviously going to have more money than someone who started yesterday. The whole point is that by the time you get to the same playtime as the person who started 8 years ago, there's no reason why you couldn't be in exactly the same place they're at now. I'm not saying that you can just decide, "I want to be rich." and see a phat set miraculously appear in your bank.

 

Functionally, there's very little difference between playing longer per day and having started playing sooner. You need to keep in mind that the relevant statistic here is not total wealth/accomplishment but the rate at which it increases.

 

If a rich guy has a 100 million gp, and a noob has 100gp, the rich guy earns 10k per day, the noob earns 20k per day. The noob will take 100million/20k days to catch up, BUT keep in mind that the rich guy is still earning money. So the noob can't really catch up unless this experiment goes on and on.

 

I see your point about reaching the same amount of money as the rich guy, BUT my argument still stands - how is someone who plays half an hour a day, earning say 50k catch up with someone who has 100 million gp? He'll have to play for 2 million days to catch up. Even if your target is 10 million gp or something more realistic, you still have to play for 20 000 days, which is approximately 54 years. How possible is that? If the guy is around 15 years old, he'll have to play until he's 70 to get that amount of money. Even if he can play 2 hours on weekends and public holidays, etc, I doubt the decrease will be significant. maybe 40+ years still.

 

Making the target a million gp, you'll still have to play roughly 5 years to acculmulate that amount of wealth. And I'm sure most rich guys have far more than a million gp.

 

 

No offence but your argument is really bad. 20,000 days for 10m? What are you talking about? I don't think its taken anyone that long to reach that kind of money, not even for a "noob". I think what you're not taking into account is that a "noob" will increase their income overtime, he/she won't just stay at 50k an hour or whatever they're making forever. I'm not sure where you're pulling some of your numbers from, but 5 years for 1 mil? At a modest 200k an hour you can get that in 5 hours playtime.

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First article - Sorry, but micro-transactions have nothing to do with RWT. Literally nothing. Connecting the illegal purchase of in-game items from other players to the publisher of a game offering in-game bonuses for money is ludicrous.

 

Second article was very well written though.

I agree with this.

Jagex have said they planned on games with micro-transactions, it's been on their wikipedia page for years. I don't think Jagex said they don't like micro-transactions, just that it's suitable for a game like Runescape..

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Ridiculous.

 

Of course a poor guy would have the ABILITY to play the same number of hours as the rich guy, but what he would have to sacrifice would be MUCH greater than the rich guy. So unless the person is incredibly passionate and zealous about the game, he won't play as much as the rich guy. You can argue that this does not invalidate the fact that the poor guy CAN play as much. However, anyone remotely familiar with experimentation, surveys and research will know you can't build your arguments on extremes. Few things are impossible, but the sacrifices and consequences along the way are so huge it wouldn't be practical to try and achieve them.

 

Everyone has 24 hours per day. The rich guy can play 6 hours per day, the poor guy can only afford to play 1/2 an hour per day. Even if the poor guy earns four, five times as much as the rich guy per hour, he'd still be poorer than the rich guy. If you play 20 minutes and earn 500k, AND you have no way to significantly increase the time you play, and the noob earns 1mil/10 hours and he CAN play 10 hours every day, obviously the noob would be richer in the long run. Unless you can play more than ~40 minutes per day, you won't be richer than the noob.

Um...no duh if you have played for longer you're going to have more money and stuff. Of course if you play for longer you're going to have accumulated more money. Someone who started back in 2002 is obviously going to have more money than someone who started yesterday. The whole point is that by the time you get to the same playtime as the person who started 8 years ago, there's no reason why you couldn't be in exactly the same place they're at now. I'm not saying that you can just decide, "I want to be rich." and see a phat set miraculously appear in your bank.

 

Functionally, there's very little difference between playing longer per day and having started playing sooner. You need to keep in mind that the relevant statistic here is not total wealth/accomplishment but the rate at which it increases.

 

If a rich guy has a 100 million gp, and a noob has 100gp, the rich guy earns 10k per day, the noob earns 20k per day. The noob will take 100million/20k days to catch up, BUT keep in mind that the rich guy is still earning money. So the noob can't really catch up unless this experiment goes on and on.

 

I see your point about reaching the same amount of money as the rich guy, BUT my argument still stands - how is someone who plays half an hour a day, earning say 50k catch up with someone who has 100 million gp? He'll have to play for 2 million days to catch up. Even if your target is 10 million gp or something more realistic, you still have to play for 20 000 days, which is approximately 54 years. How possible is that? If the guy is around 15 years old, he'll have to play until he's 70 to get that amount of money. Even if he can play 2 hours on weekends and public holidays, etc, I doubt the decrease will be significant. maybe 40+ years still.

 

Making the target a million gp, you'll still have to play roughly 5 years to acculmulate that amount of wealth. And I'm sure most rich guys have far more than a million gp.

 

 

No offence but your argument is really bad. 20,000 days for 10m? What are you talking about? I don't think its taken anyone that long to reach that kind of money, not even for a "noob". I think what you're not taking into account is that a "noob" will increase their income overtime, he/she won't just stay at 50k an hour or whatever they're making forever. I'm not sure where you're pulling some of your numbers from, but 5 years for 1 mil? At a modest 200k an hour you can get that in 5 hours playtime.

 

50k in half an hour is quite high for F2P, which is the context I'm talking about. I doubt a poor guy has enough money for membership -.-. For a guy to getting 50k an hour, he'll take 40 hours to get 1 million gp. And most busy people have around 1-2 hours to play, on weekends. So he'll take around half a year to earn that 1 million gp. That is reasonably short, but to catch up with a REALLY rich guy, it'll probably take 2-3 years or so, even with increased profit along the way. To get 100 million gp, a poor guy would have to play for 1000 hours, provided he earns 100k an hour. It'll take him ~10 years to earn 100million gp. And note that 100k/hour is very high for F2P unless you're a really good merchant or have very high levels. Let's just push the limits and make it 200k/hour. He'd still take ~5 years. Not exactly what I'd call a reasonable period of time.

 

In summary, the fact still remains that the noob will take a long long time to catch up with the rich guy.

 

P.S. I'm sorry that I calculated wrongly - I wrote 50gp in place of 50k in the calculator. No wonder I got such distorted numbers.

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50k in half an hour is quite high for F2P, which is the context I'm talking about. I doubt a poor guy has enough money for membership -.-. For a guy to getting 50k an hour, he'll take 40 hours to get 1 million gp. And most busy people have around 1-2 hours to play, on weekends. So he'll take around half a year to earn that 1 million gp. That is reasonably short, but to catch up with a REALLY rich guy, it'll probably take 2-3 years or so, even with increased profit along the way. To get 100 million gp, a poor guy would have to play for 1000 hours, provided he earns 100k an hour. It'll take him ~10 years to earn 100million gp. And note that 100k/hour is very high for F2P unless you're a really good merchant or have very high levels. Let's just push the limits and make it 200k/hour. He'd still take ~5 years. Not exactly what I'd call a reasonable period of time.

 

In summary, the fact still remains that the noob will take a long long time to catch up with the rich guy.

 

P.S. I'm sorry that I calculated wrongly - I wrote 50gp in place of 50k in the calculator. No wonder I got such distorted numbers.

But now you need to take into account that "rich" in f2p is a far lower threshold, as you only need a couple mil to be able to afford anything you could possibly want. And it still doesn't change anything fundamental about the argument--the ability to play longer per day still doesn't affect the income earned per hour.

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Ridiculous.

 

Of course a poor guy would have the ABILITY to play the same number of hours as the rich guy, but what he would have to sacrifice would be MUCH greater than the rich guy. So unless the person is incredibly passionate and zealous about the game, he won't play as much as the rich guy. You can argue that this does not invalidate the fact that the poor guy CAN play as much. However, anyone remotely familiar with experimentation, surveys and research will know you can't build your arguments on extremes. Few things are impossible, but the sacrifices and consequences along the way are so huge it wouldn't be practical to try and achieve them.

 

Everyone has 24 hours per day. The rich guy can play 6 hours per day, the poor guy can only afford to play 1/2 an hour per day. Even if the poor guy earns four, five times as much as the rich guy per hour, he'd still be poorer than the rich guy. If you play 20 minutes and earn 500k, AND you have no way to significantly increase the time you play, and the noob earns 1mil/10 hours and he CAN play 10 hours every day, obviously the noob would be richer in the long run. Unless you can play more than ~40 minutes per day, you won't be richer than the noob.

Um...no duh if you have played for longer you're going to have more money and stuff. Of course if you play for longer you're going to have accumulated more money. Someone who started back in 2002 is obviously going to have more money than someone who started yesterday. The whole point is that by the time you get to the same playtime as the person who started 8 years ago, there's no reason why you couldn't be in exactly the same place they're at now. I'm not saying that you can just decide, "I want to be rich." and see a phat set miraculously appear in your bank.

 

Functionally, there's very little difference between playing longer per day and having started playing sooner. You need to keep in mind that the relevant statistic here is not total wealth/accomplishment but the rate at which it increases.

 

If a rich guy has a 100 million gp, and a noob has 100gp, the rich guy earns 10k per day, the noob earns 20k per day. The noob will take 100million/20k days to catch up, BUT keep in mind that the rich guy is still earning money. So the noob can't really catch up unless this experiment goes on and on.

 

I see your point about reaching the same amount of money as the rich guy, BUT my argument still stands - how is someone who plays half an hour a day, earning say 50k catch up with someone who has 100 million gp? He'll have to play for 2 million days to catch up. Even if your target is 10 million gp or something more realistic, you still have to play for 20 000 days, which is approximately 54 years. How possible is that? If the guy is around 15 years old, he'll have to play until he's 70 to get that amount of money. Even if he can play 2 hours on weekends and public holidays, etc, I doubt the decrease will be significant. maybe 40+ years still.

 

Making the target a million gp, you'll still have to play roughly 5 years to acculmulate that amount of wealth. And I'm sure most rich guys have far more than a million gp.

 

 

No offence but your argument is really bad. 20,000 days for 10m? What are you talking about? I don't think its taken anyone that long to reach that kind of money, not even for a "noob". I think what you're not taking into account is that a "noob" will increase their income overtime, he/she won't just stay at 50k an hour or whatever they're making forever. I'm not sure where you're pulling some of your numbers from, but 5 years for 1 mil? At a modest 200k an hour you can get that in 5 hours playtime.

 

50k in half an hour is quite high for F2P, which is the context I'm talking about. I doubt a poor guy has enough money for membership -.-. For a guy to getting 50k an hour, he'll take 40 hours to get 1 million gp. And most busy people have around 1-2 hours to play, on weekends. So he'll take around half a year to earn that 1 million gp. That is reasonably short, but to catch up with a REALLY rich guy, it'll probably take 2-3 years or so, even with increased profit along the way. To get 100 million gp, a poor guy would have to play for 1000 hours, provided he earns 100k an hour. It'll take him ~10 years to earn 100million gp. And note that 100k/hour is very high for F2P unless you're a really good merchant or have very high levels. Let's just push the limits and make it 200k/hour. He'd still take ~5 years. Not exactly what I'd call a reasonable period of time.

 

In summary, the fact still remains that the noob will take a long long time to catch up with the rich guy.

 

P.S. I'm sorry that I calculated wrongly - I wrote 50gp in place of 50k in the calculator. No wonder I got such distorted numbers.

 

 

I hate to break it to you, but you REALLY need to clarify when you're talking about F2P, as most forum users will assume that you're talking about P2P. There's a big difference.

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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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