Ice strykerwyrms and the removal of the Fire cape requirement

[Grimy_Bunyip]

But 1 kill per hour isn't significant at all to me. Buying, bringing, and drinking the prayer potion is a hassle that would outweigh an additional .8% killers per hour. So unless the difference is significant, which currently no data shows, it's not worth the hassle...

Here lies the root of the problem

 

we don't know that the kill rate increase is only 1 kill per hour

both my numbers and my gut tell me it's more than 1 kill per hour

 

my problem is that I cannot fathom why you could possibly feel so negatively about buying, bringing, and drinking prayer potions

you have to buy them, bring them, and drink them regardless of whether you use a fire cape or not.

 

I think you are jaded in your views of how much work bringing/buying/drinking prayer potions to ice wyrms is.

[manitstinks]

Jagex has probably been noticing how every time a new item comes out (amulet of range for example), everyone swarms there and camps for a drop. So what would the people who have the task do? It would take a whole day to do a task if people were camping there. So I guess Jagex decided to put in many requirements so campers won't ruin the slayers' task. The fire cape requirement is just O_o I mean some people just don't want to waste a mill on supplies + 2 hours but now this requirement is making them. Remember, this is a game not something you don't want to do. Fire cape requirement makes it :thumbdown:

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Can you guys stop talking about various cape and rings, kills per hour, damage percentages, and all that and get back to the original topic which I honestly don't remember at this point...

[tortilliachp]

Can you guys stop talking about various cape and rings, kills per hour, damage percentages, and all that and get back to the original topic which I honestly don't remember at this point...

 

Removal of the fire-cape requirement for Ice strykewyrms.

 

on topic: today is the Audio-team Q&A. Many have complained of the sounds being required to fight Jad. How about asking a question in regard to this, so Jagex might change Jad in such a way to get around those with audio-related disabilities?

 

There's a lot of complaining about how Jad would be easier with changes, couldn't sound changes make things clearer, but still have the same difficulty in actual actions?

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Can you guys stop talking about various cape and rings, kills per hour, damage percentages, and all that and get back to the original topic which I honestly don't remember at this point...

 

Removal of the fire-cape requirement for Ice strykewyrms.

 

on topic: today is the Audio-team Q&A. Many have complained of the sounds being required to fight Jad. How about asking a question in regard to this, so Jagex might change Jad in such a way to get around those with audio-related disabilities?

 

There's a lot of complaining about how Jad would be easier with changes, couldn't sound changes make things clearer, but still have the same difficulty in actual actions?

 

Yes, that would've been a good idea to have implemented before they publicizes their comprimise. I think now it's kind of a moot point.

 

-edit- Oh wait, then we'll have people saying "Don't change it. I didn't have the right audio and I defeated Jad. Don't change it just because the whiners want Jad to be easier!" :evil:

[tortilliachp]

Can you guys stop talking about various cape and rings, kills per hour, damage percentages, and all that and get back to the original topic which I honestly don't remember at this point...

 

Removal of the fire-cape requirement for Ice strykewyrms.

 

on topic: today is the Audio-team Q&A. Many have complained of the sounds being required to fight Jad. How about asking a question in regard to this, so Jagex might change Jad in such a way to get around those with audio-related disabilities?

 

There's a lot of complaining about how Jad would be easier with changes, couldn't sound changes make things clearer, but still have the same difficulty in actual actions?

 

Yes, that would've been a good idea to have implemented before they publicizes their comprimise. I think now it's kind of a moot point.

 

why? They want to play the content, do they not? Or are you claiming it was all along just for the ability to kill the icewyrms? making content playable to those with disabilities, as long as it doesn't compromise the content for others seems beneficial to everyone involved?

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Can you guys stop talking about various cape and rings, kills per hour, damage percentages, and all that and get back to the original topic which I honestly don't remember at this point...

 

Removal of the fire-cape requirement for Ice strykewyrms.

 

on topic: today is the Audio-team Q&A. Many have complained of the sounds being required to fight Jad. How about asking a question in regard to this, so Jagex might change Jad in such a way to get around those with audio-related disabilities?

 

There's a lot of complaining about how Jad would be easier with changes, couldn't sound changes make things clearer, but still have the same difficulty in actual actions?

 

Yes, that would've been a good idea to have implemented before they publicizes their comprimise. I think now it's kind of a moot point.

 

why? They want to play the content, do they not? Or are you claiming it was all along just for the ability to kill the icewyrms? making content playable to those with disabilities, as long as it doesn't compromise the content for others seems beneficial to everyone involved?

 

I dunno. It's nearly impossible to have a casual opinion on anything anymore. It would be nice if his attacks had a more recognizable sound. I don't think that would be beneficial to anyone with a disability like myself though.

[tortilliachp]

 

I dunno. It's nearly impossible to have a casual opinion on anything anymore. It would be nice if his attacks had a more recognizable sound. I don't think that would be beneficial to anyone with a disability like myself though.

 

some improvement is better than no improvement though?

 

giving in and giving up helps nothing and nobody.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

 

I dunno. It's nearly impossible to have a casual opinion on anything anymore. It would be nice if his attacks had a more recognizable sound. I don't think that would be beneficial to anyone with a disability like myself though.

 

some improvement is better than no improvement though?

 

giving in and giving up helps nothing and nobody.

 

It helps me enjoy myself by not worrying about stuff so much. :)

[joker2022]

It's as simple as this...

 

 

I tranined to 93 slayer to be able to kill the new monster when released.

 

 

I did not train on Jad, because I did not want a firecape nor did I want to do the fight caves.

 

-To expensive to buy supplies to complete

-To much of a chance of laggy rs servers

-To much of a chance of java crashing and screen going black

-To slow of a computer to register the clicks for prayer switching

 

 

 

So why train slayer if I can't kill the new monster?

 

You don't see the need for a firecape to be able to cast soul split or ice barrage or to be able to cut mage logs or craft nature runes or mine rune ore or make high level potions or light mage logs on fire or use d bow or wear third age armor or summon creatures.

 

So this requirement placed on slayer is unjust and unfair. Had we known this, I don't think any of us without a firecape, would have even bothered to train to 93 slayer.

 

 

 

.

[Esper_Jones]

So this requirement placed on slayer is unjust and unfair. Had we known this, I don't think any of us without a firecape, would have even bothered to train to 93 slayer.

 

I don't own a fire cape, and I trained to 93+ slayer just for the ranks, level, and prestige of the level. Not everyone stops at 85...

[joker2022]

Lets face it, the requirement was in line with risk verus reward and your mad because you could not complete the fight caves or more likely too unwilling to try to...

 

I'll respect your opinion even though I disagree. Also Jad is an optional monster.

 

But this comment is unappreciated.

 

One thing for sure is that Jagex created class discrimination with this update. Those with firecapes and those without. I was going to try and get one, but now that I see how some of you are acting with one, I want nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

I'm happy without one.

 

 

 

.

[joker2022]

Look at this way...

 

 

What if Jagex released a new slayer monster, level 90.

 

You could not fight it if you killed Jad. (Actually a good idea)

 

 

How would you feel getting to 90 slayer, getting firecape, then being crapped on?

 

Would you not complain?

 

.

[joker2022]

I think the only workable compromise which would please everyone, and eliminate this new discrimination is my before stated idea.

 

 

Leave ice wyrms as they are.

 

 

Create a new monster for people who have not killed jad. If you kill jad, you cannot fight the new monster.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I think the only workable compromise which would please everyone, and eliminate this new discrimination is my before stated idea.

 

 

Leave ice wyrms as they are.

 

 

Create a new monster for people who have not killed jad. If you kill jad, you cannot fight the new monster.

 

Or... let them do their compromise and everyone stop complaining about it and go back to Slaying?

[Soma2035]

Can you guys stop talking about various cape and rings, kills per hour, damage percentages, and all that and get back to the original topic which I honestly don't remember at this point...

 

It is about the original topic... my original comment was that the removal of the actual requirement, and the compromise made to those who already had Fire Capes, wasn't exactly fair when it was possible that even people with a Fire Cape would consider not using it.

 

By the way, I don't want to start a huge debate about theoretical math again, but I finally got an Ice Strykewyrm task last night. First of all, I ran exactly one prayer potion short, and prayer flashing isn't so effective on magical attacks (or my timing is just off), so my Red Cape would've saved me an entire trip, but that was a terrible miscalculation on my part so that doesn't say too much. Secondly, magic splashes surprisingly often on them. It was shocking since many 93+ Slayers, and the RS Wiki, stated that their defense was quite low and I shouldn't splash much, but I would still fail on average 2 casts per kill. Finally, as far as damage goes, I tracked for the first several kills - every time I hit, I would count up 4 damage, and see how many casts it would have saved to have been dealing 4 more damage a hit. It did save me a few kills, but it turns out damage isn't distributed very evenly at all.

 

I think that the first thing I'd try after the update would be to see if the +4 is doubled. If not, I'll probably test out my Guthix Cape. While the +4 would save more than I thought (on average 1 cast every 3 kills or so, with about 11 casts per kill), I imagine with an average of 2 splashes per kill, boosting my magic attack bonus could save more. In either case, it reinforces my original point - the fact that it could be less hassle (Red / Blue Capes) or potentially better (Saradomin / Guthix / Zamorak Capes) to not use the Fire Cape indicates that if the Fire Cape only adds +4 damage it's not really a fair compromise.

[Dragonlordjl]

Can you guys stop talking about various cape and rings, kills per hour, damage percentages, and all that and get back to the original topic which I honestly don't remember at this point...

 

It is about the original topic... my original comment was that the removal of the actual requirement, and the compromise made to those who already had Fire Capes, wasn't exactly fair when it was possible that even people with a Fire Cape would consider not using it.

 

By the way, I don't want to start a huge debate about theoretical math again, but I finally got an Ice Strykewyrm task last night. First of all, I ran exactly one prayer potion short, and prayer flashing isn't so effective on magical attacks (or my timing is just off), so my Red Cape would've saved me an entire trip, but that was a terrible miscalculation on my part so that doesn't say too much. Secondly, magic splashes surprisingly often on them. It was shocking since many 93+ Slayers, and the RS Wiki, stated that their defense was quite low and I shouldn't splash much, but I would still fail on average 2 casts per kill. Finally, as far as damage goes, I tracked for the first several kills - every time I hit, I would count up 4 damage, and see how many casts it would have saved to have been dealing 4 more damage a hit. It did save me a few kills, but it turns out damage isn't distributed very evenly at all.

 

I think that the first thing I'd try after the update would be to see if the +4 is doubled. If not, I'll probably test out my Guthix Cape. While the +4 would save more than I thought (on average 1 cast every 3 kills or so, with about 11 casts per kill), I imagine with an average of 2 splashes per kill, boosting my magic attack bonus could save more. In either case, it reinforces my original point - the fact that it could be less hassle (Red / Blue Capes) or potentially better (Saradomin / Guthix / Zamorak Capes) to not use the Fire Cape indicates that if the Fire Cape only adds +4 damage it's not really a fair compromise.

 

Mod Whatshisface did confirm that the Fire Cape will add +8 damage to magical fire attacks.

[Soma2035]

Can you guys stop talking about various cape and rings, kills per hour, damage percentages, and all that and get back to the original topic which I honestly don't remember at this point...

 

It is about the original topic... my original comment was that the removal of the actual requirement, and the compromise made to those who already had Fire Capes, wasn't exactly fair when it was possible that even people with a Fire Cape would consider not using it.

 

By the way, I don't want to start a huge debate about theoretical math again, but I finally got an Ice Strykewyrm task last night. First of all, I ran exactly one prayer potion short, and prayer flashing isn't so effective on magical attacks (or my timing is just off), so my Red Cape would've saved me an entire trip, but that was a terrible miscalculation on my part so that doesn't say too much. Secondly, magic splashes surprisingly often on them. It was shocking since many 93+ Slayers, and the RS Wiki, stated that their defense was quite low and I shouldn't splash much, but I would still fail on average 2 casts per kill. Finally, as far as damage goes, I tracked for the first several kills - every time I hit, I would count up 4 damage, and see how many casts it would have saved to have been dealing 4 more damage a hit. It did save me a few kills, but it turns out damage isn't distributed very evenly at all.

 

I think that the first thing I'd try after the update would be to see if the +4 is doubled. If not, I'll probably test out my Guthix Cape. While the +4 would save more than I thought (on average 1 cast every 3 kills or so, with about 11 casts per kill), I imagine with an average of 2 splashes per kill, boosting my magic attack bonus could save more. In either case, it reinforces my original point - the fact that it could be less hassle (Red / Blue Capes) or potentially better (Saradomin / Guthix / Zamorak Capes) to not use the Fire Cape indicates that if the Fire Cape only adds +4 damage it's not really a fair compromise.

 

Mod Whatshisface did confirm that the Fire Cape will add +8 damage to magical fire attacks.

 

Really? QC Code and page please. :)

 

(Not doubting you, would just like to see for myself.)

[Infi]

I think lots of people are forgetting that Ice Strykwyrms are optional content and that you will never be assigned it if you don't have a Fire Cape.

 

Very disappointed with JaGEx on their decision on this one..

[Emmentail]

Except that for Slayer which has been crying out for high level content since people first passed lvl 85 it seems rather stupid for Jagex to have added these monsters as "optional content".

[Infi]

Except that for Slayer which has been crying out for high level content since people first passed lvl 85 it seems rather stupid for Jagex to have added these monsters as "optional content".

 

Uhh, Dark Beasts were exclusive prior to Kuradal's dungeon to those who have only completed MEP2 quite some time after Abyssal Demons were released. I don't see how this is any different.

 

It's not JaGEx's responsiblity to adjust content of a skill (high level content, mind you) in order to compensate for one's lacking competency for a cape which isn't hard to obtain in the first place for those who have 93 slayer (or should I say at any level) , nor does it take as long as some claim it to be.

[Soma2035]

Except that for Slayer which has been crying out for high level content since people first passed lvl 85 it seems rather stupid for Jagex to have added these monsters as "optional content".

 

That's not really unfair at all. Dark Beasts required the completion of Mourning's End Part 2, which remains a fairly difficult puzzle for anyone not using a quest guide. Also, if you look at high level content for other skills:

 

When Crafting got Onyx gems and jewelry, selling Fire runes was unfeasible, and monster drops were fairly low. In order to get the raw material for the new high level content, you pretty much had to earn 300K Tokkul from a PvP mini-game. Miners used to have nowhere at all to mine Rune except the wilderness, subjecting them to merciless PKers. Likewise, Smithers needed this ore to do anything really high level. The highest level Farming action is planting a Spirit Tree, and before Manage Thy Kingdom and the Giant Mole were capable of supplying Spirit Tree seeds, it came down to luck and a lot of time woodcutting.

 

High level content has often required something "extra" in addition to the high level. Sometimes, it was more outright grinding in a different skill. Sometimes, it was forced PvP. Sometimes, it required a different set of skills, like puzzle-solving...

[zotto]

I actually didn't get any dark beasts task till I hit slayer level 95 (or was it even 97?) because I had never done MEP2.

 

The firecape requirement has always been fine with me. But the compromise is fine as well.

 

Does it all really matter? You can't camp them. You are dependent on luck to get them assigned. A few more slayers can do them now when the compromise is realized.

 

Where is the ruined gameplay exactly? And does the fact that a select few of your fellow runescapers now can do the same task really ruin the game for you?

[Emmentail]

They're just worried their profits will drop from a few more people being able to get the Staff of Light. :rolleyes:

 

And MEP2 only needs to be started to access Dark Beasts. But let's face it, they're pretty crap as slayer monsters go and before Within the Light/Kuradal nobody wanted them ask a task that much because of the hassle of having to take Mourners Gear with you, or fiddle around with the Temple of Light through the Abyss.. Especially before Summoning and BOBs.

[tortilliachp]

They're just worried their profits will drop from a few more people being able to get the Staff of Light. :rolleyes:

 

And MEP2 only needs to be started to access Dark Beasts. But let's face it, they're pretty crap as slayer monsters go and before Within the Light/Kuradal nobody wanted them ask a task that much because of the hassle of having to take Mourners Gear with you, or fiddle around with the Temple of Light through the Abyss.. Especially before Summoning and BOBs.

 

 

To many of you who are replying: I maintain what I said in my first post: there are proxy arguments that are the root of the whole discussion. This is not really about being able to kill the icye wyrm or not, it's about the direction Jagex are moving in. that's what terrifies people: the fact that the gameplay they enjoy the most might not be the type of gameplay that Jagex intend to focus on in the future. It's so much more important to those with higher levels, as they are the ones with most time invested in the game, just as pkers are the ones with most time invested in pvp-style activities.

 

This argument is about something bigger than the icy wyrms: it's about what some deem their right to participate in all content because of skill levels, where others feel that quests and other requirements should be a prerequisite to many things. If the new kingly implings (which are arguably very profitable when you come across them on your travels accross Gielinor) required a quest, I bet there'd be the exact same uproar, maybe even more if it was related to the more common dragon imps.

 

this issue is so important to so many people because they're talking about a single issue, and thinking about the future of the game, and large new portions of game-content. That's threatening if you have 200+ days of ingame time.