Legality of autobumping

[sees_all1]

Would it be against the rules to write a script which bumps (your own) RSOF thread every 10-20 minutes?

I understand that macroing in game is strictly against the rules, but this isn't in game?

 

Let me know what you think.

 

Also, if it makes a difference, this is the thread I'd like to bump:

74-75-317-60364416

[Vulxai]

I think this would fall into the category of not technically illegal, but just looked down upon.

[Omali]

I think you may be better off asking Jagex on this one. I don't think you'll find anyone here on Tip.It who knows the rules that far in-depth to know if auto-bumping your threads would be banworthy.

 

The reason I say that is because, just remember that if they do somehow detect it (for example, seeing that your thread is bumped every 10 minutes on the spot. not saying they look for it), then "macroing" gets you perma-banned, no exceptions and no appeals nowadays.

 

And is it really worth the risk?

[Gandalf14141]

If you question it, its usually safer to not do it, then to do it and get in trouble

[sees_all1]

And is it really worth the risk?

 

no, it isn't. But as far as detection, I'm speculating that it would be near impossible for them to log anything other than time in between bumps. And if they did log something other than time in between bumps (for instance, mouse locations or processes running), it would be a gross invasion of privacy, and getting banned would/should be the least of my concerns.

[Omali]

And is it really worth the risk?

 

no, it isn't. But as far as detection, I'm speculating that it would be near impossible for them to log anything other than time in between bumps. And if they did log something other than time in between bumps (for instance, mouse locations or processes running), it would be a gross invasion of privacy, and getting banned would/should be the least of my concerns.

 

If you set it to auto-bump every 10 minutes on the dot, that's all they would need to know to get you for macroing.

[Bloodstain]

And is it really worth the risk?

 

no, it isn't. But as far as detection, I'm speculating that it would be near impossible for them to log anything other than time in between bumps. And if they did log something other than time in between bumps (for instance, mouse locations or processes running), it would be a gross invasion of privacy, and getting banned would/should be the least of my concerns.

 

 

If they did log the time between bumps wouldn't they be able to easily tell you are using a program? And lol at invasion of privacy and what not. Doubt they'd even notice though considering there are hundreds of threads on RSOF

[sees_all1]

no, it isn't. But as far as detection, I'm speculating that it would be near impossible for them to log anything other than time in between bumps. And if they did log something other than time in between bumps (for instance, mouse locations or processes running), it would be a gross invasion of privacy, and getting banned would/should be the least of my concerns.

 

 

If they did log the time between bumps wouldn't they be able to easily tell you are using a program? And lol at invasion of privacy and what not. Doubt they'd even notice though considering there are hundreds of threads on RSOF

 

No. I don't want to go into too much detail of how to write "undetectable" macro software, but having a randomly generated component to it would make it exactly like having the thread opened in a different window or tab, and then periodically bumping it (as you remember).

[Urbex]

I use a firefox add-on to auto-refresh the bump link once every 9.00-12.00 minutes.

I'd be seriously surprised if they even bothered to record something like click intervals...

[Obtaurian]

I would think that Jagex is more concerned with ingame macroing. I can't imagine that it'd be against the rules or a bannable offense, but better to just play it safe.

[Bladewing]

Might get banned from the forums :roll:

[Sy_Accursed]

no, it isn't. But as far as detection, I'm speculating that it would be near impossible for them to log anything other than time in between bumps. And if they did log something other than time in between bumps (for instance, mouse locations or processes running), it would be a gross invasion of privacy, and getting banned would/should be the least of my concerns.

 

 

If they did log the time between bumps wouldn't they be able to easily tell you are using a program? And lol at invasion of privacy and what not. Doubt they'd even notice though considering there are hundreds of threads on RSOF

 

No. I don't want to go into too much detail of how to write "undetectable" macro software, but having a randomly generated component to it would make it exactly like having the thread opened in a different window or tab, and then periodically bumping it (as you remember).

 

Except its not truely undectectable because "random" generation relies on number strings.

So it'd still be decetable even if ur random system varied the timing slightly because it'd a) be a noticed random number string being used and eventually repeated and B) still far more accurate and systematic than a real person.

[Rock Hard]

do it, just dont publicize it

 

jagex dont really care about a single player bumping his forum threads more regularly [honestly, how petty would that be?]

 

however if a majority were doing it and it gave a quantifiable trading [or otherwise] advantage to those using your script, then jagex would take a stance on it;

 

either making it against the rules, or implementing a forum auto-bump for everyone to use - similar to the fuss regarding world switching clients a few years back

[sees_all1]

Except its not truely undectectable because "random" generation relies on number strings.

So it'd still be decetable even if ur random system varied the timing slightly because it'd a) be a noticed random number string being used and eventually repeated and B) still far more accurate and systematic than a real person.

If you don't know the seed of a random number generator, it might as well be random. Even if you do know the seed, it might as well be random. Also, I called it a "script" but in reality it'd be programmed in java, and java's RNG is pretty decent... I hear they use it in some mmorpg or something....

[Rainy_Day]

As Omali said, you are better off asking Jagex. No one here can give you a definite answer, but the creator's of the rules are most definitely going to give you an answer. I'd imagine it would be frowned upon though, especially since it keeps you logged in whilst you aren't there, and is still macroing.

[Rock Hard]

As Omali said, you are better off asking Jagex. No one here can give you a definite answer, but the creator's of the rules are most definitely going to give you an answer. I'd imagine it would be frowned upon though, especially since it keeps you logged in whilst you aren't there, and is still macroing.

 

dont, it's easier to apologize than it is to ask permission - especially as there's no clear rule concerning it

 

you're not going to get a perm ban either way - worse that can happen is you appeal any action on your forum account with 'i'm sorry - i couldnt find any definitive info on whether it was allowed or not so i assumed it would be ok; i apologize for unintentionally breaking any rules, but afaik jagex had no policy regarding this. i've learnt my lesson and it will not happen again'

 

you'll get off lightly, and this will set a precedent clearing up jagex policy for everyone

 

if you ask permission - they will most like say no right from the outset.

[pulli23]

no, it isn't. But as far as detection, I'm speculating that it would be near impossible for them to log anything other than time in between bumps. And if they did log something other than time in between bumps (for instance, mouse locations or processes running), it would be a gross invasion of privacy, and getting banned would/should be the least of my concerns.

 

 

If they did log the time between bumps wouldn't they be able to easily tell you are using a program? And lol at invasion of privacy and what not. Doubt they'd even notice though considering there are hundreds of threads on RSOF

 

No. I don't want to go into too much detail of how to write "undetectable" macro software, but having a randomly generated component to it would make it exactly like having the thread opened in a different window or tab, and then periodically bumping it (as you remember).

 

Except its not truely undectectable because "random" generation relies on number strings.

So it'd still be decetable even if ur random system varied the timing slightly because it'd a) be a noticed random number string being used and eventually repeated and B) still far more accurate and systematic than a real person.

You have no idea what you are talking about!

 

Pseudo randoms as used as base in any programming language are IMPOSSIBLE to detect: even with true randoms repetition is bound to happen quite often.. (Sometimes on a small scale, sometimes even on larger cases like 10-20 numbers)... It's impossible to get the seed of a random number for pseudo randoms.

[Merre]

It's not about being banned. It's about how people would think about you.

I don't understand why people are too lazy to follow the rules and do things like they are meant to be...

[schmuall]

It's not about being banned. It's about how people would think about you.

I don't understand why people are too lazy to follow the rules and do things like they are meant to be...

 

The fact is that there are no rules regarding this. OP is merely asking whether (due to the ambiguity of the official rules) people believe that this would result in punishment by Jagex.

[010jonathan]

It's not about being banned. It's about how people would think about you.

I don't understand why people are too lazy to follow the rules and do things like they are meant to be...

 

The fact is that there are no rules regarding this. OP is merely asking whether (due to the ambiguity of the official rules) people believe that this would result in punishment by Jagex.

 

"Macroing, and use of bots or third-party software

Effective date: 12th May 2009

 

You must not use other software to gain an unfair advantage in our games. This includes automation tools, macros, bots, or auto-typers. You may not circumvent any of our mechanisms designed to automatically log out inactive users.

 

You also must not use any game-specific, third-party software that encourages breaking of our rules, or bypasses the normal navigation of our website, or automatically requests pages from our website, or which endangers user accounts."

 

The games exist of the playable MMORPG AND the forums. The script is an unfair advantage against other players, it's an automated tool, it's a macro. It also circumvents the automatically log out of inactive status. It even says directly it should NOT bypass normal navigation of the website.

 

You're not meant to autobump, you're not allowed to autobump and doing so deserves at least a forum (temp)ban.

[sees_all1]

Macroing, and use of bots or third-party software

Effective date: 12th May 2009

 

You must not use other software to gain an unfair advantage in our games. This includes automation tools, macros, bots, or auto-typers. You may not circumvent any of our mechanisms designed to automatically log out inactive users.

 

You also must not use any game-specific, third-party software that encourages breaking of our rules, or bypasses the normal navigation of our website, or automatically requests pages from our website, or which endangers user accounts.

 

 

The games exist of the playable MMORPG AND the forums. The script is an unfair advantage against other players, it's an automated tool, it's a macro. It also circumvents the automatically log out of inactive status. It even says directly it should NOT bypass normal navigation of the website.

 

You're not meant to autobump, you're not allowed to autobump and doing so deserves at least a forum (temp)ban.

Sorry, where was the GAME defined as "MMORGP AND the forums" ?

Also, my auto bumping program would not be third party, as I would have programmed it myself. It would not bypass the normal navigation of their website, as it would interact by clicking on links in a browser. It wouldn't automatically request pages from the website any more than browsing the forums yourself, or manually bumping would.

 

I don't see how it would give me an unfair advantage in game, unless I was bumping a buy/sell thread (which I don't intend to ever do).

 

I could just as easily write the same timing code, but instead of automatically clicking on the link, playing a sound which reminds me to bump. This would yield the same results, and be perfectly legal.

 

 

 

It seems the general consensus is that this is a "gray" area, and the worst that could happen is that my account is banned from the forums.

Thanks for the responses.

 

EDIT:changed tenses

[Malgoradan]

Also, my auto bumping program would not be third party, as I would have programmed it myself.

 

When they say third party, they mean mean anything not made by them. So yes, if you made it, it would be third party.

[pulli23]

Also, my auto bumping program would not be third party, as I would have programmed it myself.

 

When they say third party, they mean mean anything not made by them. So yes, if you made it, it would be third party.

no, that's against the right of freedom to run any program...

[010jonathan]

Also, my auto bumping program would not be third party, as I would have programmed it myself.

 

When they say third party, they mean mean anything not made by them. So yes, if you made it, it would be third party.

no, that's against the right of freedom to run any program...

You think it's legal to bot if you made the bot program yourself? Go bot and see yourself banned.

[010jonathan]

Macroing, and use of bots or third-party software

Effective date: 12th May 2009

 

You must not use other software to gain an unfair advantage in our games. This includes automation tools, macros, bots, or auto-typers. You may not circumvent any of our mechanisms designed to automatically log out inactive users.

 

You also must not use any game-specific, third-party software that encourages breaking of our rules, or bypasses the normal navigation of our website, or automatically requests pages from our website, or which endangers user accounts.

 

 

The games exist of the playable MMORPG AND the forums. The script is an unfair advantage against other players, it's an automated tool, it's a macro. It also circumvents the automatically log out of inactive status. It even says directly it should NOT bypass normal navigation of the website.

 

You're not meant to autobump, you're not allowed to autobump and doing so deserves at least a forum (temp)ban.

Sorry, where was the GAME defined as "MMORGP AND the forums" ?

Also, my auto bumping program would not be third party, as I would have programmed it myself. It would not bypass the normal navigation of their website, as it would interact by clicking on links in a browser. It wouldn't automatically request pages from the website any more than browsing the forums yourself, or manually bumping would.

 

I don't see how it would give me an unfair advantage in game, unless I was bumping a buy/sell thread (which I don't intend to ever do).

 

I could just as easily write the same timing code, but instead of automatically clicking on the link, playing a sound which reminds me to bump. This would yield the same results, and be perfectly legal.

 

 

 

It seems the general consensus is that this is a "gray" area, and the worst that could happen is that my account is banned from the forums.

Thanks for the responses.

 

EDIT:changed tenses

 

Of course MMORGP was a spelling mistake.

 

Also, we are in real life, where things are handled by the spirit of the rule, we don't need a definition like in sciences or mathematics to know what the game is.

 

Other than that: making a bot program yourself IS considered as a third party program. The term third party program is used because 99% of the bots use a bought botting program. It doesn't mean if you make a bot yourself, you'll be legally botting.

 

The botting program DOES bypass the normal investigation: you would get logged out of the runescape website after like 1 hour, now you won't get logged out.

 

It also DOES give yourself an unfair advantage: the forums are created that unpopular threads get eaten by the page 51 monster. You stop this monster from feeding itself, whereas other players don't have the chance to automatically stop it. Therefore this IS an unfair advantage.

 

The last thing you say IS legal because the program does not interact with the runescape website, you do it yourself. If you would make your own private highway (in your case: your own computer) next to the normal, official roads (here runescape.com), then you're also allowed to drive at speeds of over 150 miles per hour (here: automatically rung bells). But as long as you are driving on the public roads, you have to follow the official rules and therefore you have to click bump yourself.