American Education and Foreign Language Learning

[Amaranth_GTO]

The only foreign language I take in school is Latin. Not because it's particularly useful, but I like the class.

 

But on my trip to Europe this summer, I learned more French during my 3 days in Paris than I did in my mandatory 9 weeks of French (school makes you take 9 weeks of each language, then you choose one to take the next year.) So the best way to learn is simply by conversing with someone who speaks the language, not sitting through a class.

[Giordano]

English, Spanish, Portuguese, and French are the main four languages of the Western Hemisphere. I know two of them; good enough. :thumbsup:

[EarthySun]

The Finnish system is that you start with English at 9, then you have a chance to start a 2nd foreign (usually german or swedish) at eleven if you want to and Swedish (2nd official language) starts at 13.

The obligatory swedish raises political conflicts from time to time, people don't need it, it's hard for the students, there'd be more important subjects to study (russian for example, some argue), etc. Personally I think from a minority point of view, obligatory swedish as a 2nd foreign language is a good thing, even if you never needed it. Seeing what kind of minority related problems other european countries have, I think it sends out a message that we view them as a legitimate and respected part of the community when we teach their language to everyone.

 

Our german teacher had a good quote on her classroom door that I don't know how to put in English:

Mit jeder Sprache die du kannst, bist du ein Mensch mehr.

It's true.

 

That quote means "With each language you can speak, you become more of a man." Correct me if I'm wrong.^^ I think that in my old town, they should have taught Portuguese instead of Spanish. Around one third of the school was Brazillian (mostly illegal immigrants for parents), and so it annoyed me when I'd pass by lots of them in the halls and they'd be talking in Portuguese. We had street signs in Portuguese, and even kids who couldn't speak English.

 

Also, by just practicing German online for a month or so, I learned so much more than I have (to date) in school. I'm taking German Level 1, but it really isn't doing me much good. During the summer, I will be taking a course in German at a community college. Hopefully, that'll do me some good. My grandmother is German through and through, and English is her third language. I've been asking her for some help with the language, but her e-mails in which she attempts to explain the cases (Dative, Genative, etc) aren't very helpful to my English mind.

 

Also, something that annoys me about German is that everything has to directly correlate with its "gender". A girl, in my mind, is not an "it", but a "she". A pencil is not a "him", but an "it". However, I have to refer to everything as if it were male, female, or neutral... How annoying. :P

[Madmanpur3]

Here's my thoughts on foreign languages in America - they should not be mandatory because there will be people who simply don't want to learn a foreign language, so trying to force them to learn one would be a waste of resources and time. Let those who want to pick up a foreign language do so on their own and they'll become a better person for it. :thumbup:

 

I'm currently learning French via Rosetta Stone and my sister's fiance, and I've been adding to what little Spanish I learned in high school living with a Venezuelan and hanging out with people who speak fluent Spanish. Once I'm fluent in French I'll finish learning Spanish, then probably move on to Russian. I heard once you learn one new language, the rest come easier.

 

Also, one of my biggest pet peeves is when my foreign friends and foreigners in general apologize for their poor english...you speak english better than I speak your language so stop apologizing already.

[GibberEsh]

I tend to find that a lot of my classmates don't really care about foreign language and they drop it after doing the minimum. Right now I'm taking AP Spanish, which should be the most difficult Spanish in high school, (other than AP Span Lit), yet we learn nothing in the class and only care about prepping for the AP exam. I'd say only like 4-5 of the kids can actually speak and understand it and the rest of us are just there for the AP credits. I consider my Spanish to be pretty mediocre and I would like to learn more about it but the class is just useless.

 

Another problem that I have with learning foreign languages in high school is that other classes are more important. I would like to take German 1 next year, however taking 2 maths would probably help me and my GPA more instead of being able to learn what I want.

[Lenticular_J]

I'm already fluent in Spanish after two years.

 

It helps that I live in a town where half the people speak spanish fluently, and plenty of people are actually immigrants, but ...

[fakeitormakeit2]

I went to France and meant some people. One kid was like oh I'm so sorry my English is so horrible. And he probably spoke English better then some adults I know, hahaha.

 

But yes, knowing more then one language is rare I would say in America unless your parents/grandparents are non-English speakers. Courses themselves just fail in American schooling for language teaching. I am talking Italian IV as an easy A+ since I speak Italian fluently, the teacher butchers the language, uses these gutter slang dialect words that you would only hear in Sicily, etc. I don't think I've learned anything in that class. As for Arabic, I have a private tutor from a language institute because I want to learn Standard [it's different from a colloquial version] and we do so much in one class. I remember my first lesson, I knew only non-Standard Arabic and no knowledge of the alphabet other then alif ba ta basically and in one lesson I learned the entire alphabet and in two more I had 0% mistake rate for connecting the letters (because when you write in arabic some letters don't connect in certain ways) and I had learned the vowel marks (for instance the word kaleb is actually spelled klb, but you can add tick marks which act as vowels differing on their position). It is the manner in which you approach a language and the degree of interest a student has, which goes for anything.

 

I think its important to learn secondary languages, as they can also help the way you think and how. I guess its ok if you aren't very good at linguistics so you decide not to take a secondary language, but I have been to Italy frequently and I was appalled to find Americans demanding that Italians speak English (which a lot of them do) and one called me a [developmentally delayed]ed ginee because I was speaking Italian with a street vender.

 

Language also are mocked by people which annoys me. I was praying in Serto [syriac] with someone else and someone goes kha derca derca moohamud jehaad (in a horrible accent may I say). 1 Wrong religion/time period 2 Aramaic sounds nothing like Arabic.

[EarthySun]

I'm already fluent in Spanish after two years.

 

It helps that I live in a town where half the people speak spanish fluently, and plenty of people are actually immigrants, but ...

 

I consider myself to be pretty damn good at Spanish, although not quite fluent. :x Apparently my mother and grandmother (the German grandmother, my mom's mother) are natural language-learners. My mom used to speak fluent German and English, but she hasn't used the German for around 30 years. Apparently it got very stale. :P My German grandmother speaks German, French, English and Russian. We love learning languages and usually pick it up easily, but I struggle with the German cases (where my mom and grandma did not). I'll be (hopefully) studying abroad in Germany for my senior year of high school, so I've really got to learn this language quickly.

 

Something annoying that happened to me around a month ago: 14 or 15 German kids visited our school and town for two weeks. During this time, they just hung out, toured the building, and talked to kids/classes about their lives in Germany and what it was like. However, they'd often talk to each other in rapid-fire German and assume that nobody understood them. They were in my German Level 1 class, and didn't know that it was a German class, so they continued as normal. But at the end, my German teacher mentioned it to them, and they got all worried and nervous-looking.... and they should have looked nervous, too. My teacher and I were the only ones who understood even a bit of what they said about us, but it wasn't very nice. They kept mentioning that we were "stupid Americans" and called us annoying. They talked about people behind their backs, calling one teacher a "fat, loud guy who probably never had [kitty]". It was pretty amusing. It's really a shame that my German teacher didn't do anything about it. :P

 

And something unrelated to that: I've been thinking of checking out some Asian languages, or maybe even Russian, after I finish with Spanish and German. I wouldn't try anything like Arabic (I could never read it, for one -- too complicated of a writing system imho), but a language with a non-Latin alphabet would certainly be an interesting challenge. Japanese would probably be easier than Chinese, because of its alphabet system... not one unique character for every word, and no tonal linguistics or worrying about dialect. Russian, well... I don't really know anything about Russian yet. :P

 

Some languages that I would probably never learn would be French and Arabic. French because it all sounds so slippery or grunty (their numbers, for example), and also the fact that I just dislike France and French Canada. Arabic as well, because it's so complicated in its writing system(s). I've heard that you'd have to be able to discern a dot to an absurdly small distance just to tell if the sign meant one thing or another.

 

Edit: I still haven't learned any language (besides English) to full fluency, but I'm getting there. Something that really bothers me is my speaking. In Spanish, I can understand the vast majority of what is said about most things (unless you were talking about some odd subject like astronomy or something). However, when I attempt to speak, my words come out somewhat slowly (so long as I want to remain entirely correct in my Spanish and remain fully clear in its meaning), and I still have yet to catch every single word when I listen to somebody who is speaking Spanish. My brain still has to process what they're saying, so I'm usually half a second behind the speaker.

[Giordano]

You know what would be awesome? If I learned Italian. No, I'm not an Assassin's Creed fanboy, but I am half Italian decent and loads of Argentine customs and foods are Italian.

 

English, Spanish, and Italian. Sounds cool eh?

[EarthySun]

You know what would be awesome? If I learned Italian. No, I'm not an Assassin's Creed fanboy, but I am half Italian decent and loads of Argentine customs and foods are Italian.

 

English, Spanish, and Italian. Sounds cool eh?

 

Pretty much. The Spanish will help so much with the Italian, haha. I was able to understand about a quarter or more of what they were talking about in The Godfather (during the Italian parts) just from knowing Spanish.

[Lenticular_J]

I know Italian relatively well too, and so many Italian and Spanish words are practically the same. My teacher knows I know Italian, and a lot of the time I pronounce with an Italian dialect because it comes more naturally to me.

 

Damn annoying at times.

[Giordano]

Heh. I know Spanish so that'll definitely be a boost. And hand gestures. Half of Italian is composed of hand gestures. :thumbsup:

[Perakp]

The Finnish system is that you start with English at 9, then you have a chance to start a 2nd foreign (usually german or swedish) at eleven if you want to and Swedish (2nd official language) starts at 13.

The obligatory swedish raises political conflicts from time to time, people don't need it, it's hard for the students, there'd be more important subjects to study (russian for example, some argue), etc. Personally I think from a minority point of view, obligatory swedish as a 2nd foreign language is a good thing, even if you never needed it. Seeing what kind of minority related problems other european countries have, I think it sends out a message that we view them as a legitimate and respected part of the community when we teach their language to everyone.

 

Our german teacher had a good quote on her classroom door that I don't know how to put in English:

Mit jeder Sprache die du kannst, bist du ein Mensch mehr.

It's true.

 

That quote means "With each language you can speak, you become more of a man." Correct me if I'm wrong.^^

 

Yeah but it doesn't sound as good, as elegant, when it's put in English.

 

 

When I was younger my parents would speak in bits of swedish, english and german when they didn't want us kids to know what they were talking about (I guess they were discussing our christmas presents etc). I think this must've motivated me in my language studies a bit.

 

I'd like to learn spanish, russian or sign language atm.

[EarthySun]

Yeah but it doesn't sound as good, as elegant, when it's put in English.

 

 

When I was younger my parents would speak in bits of swedish, english and german when they didn't want us kids to know what they were talking about (I guess they were discussing our christmas presents etc). I think this must've motivated me in my language studies a bit.

 

I'd like to learn spanish, russian or sign language atm.

 

Why sign language? :P I wouldn't personally consider it that useful, or even really an entirely language altogether.

[dsavi]

The Finnish system is that you start with English at 9, then you have a chance to start a 2nd foreign (usually german or swedish) at eleven if you want to and Swedish (2nd official language) starts at 13.

The obligatory swedish raises political conflicts from time to time, people don't need it, it's hard for the students, there'd be more important subjects to study (russian for example, some argue), etc. Personally I think from a minority point of view, obligatory swedish as a 2nd foreign language is a good thing, even if you never needed it. Seeing what kind of minority related problems other european countries have, I think it sends out a message that we view them as a legitimate and respected part of the community when we teach their language to everyone.

I have kind of an interesting perspective on this- I moved to Finland from America, went to a school in English where Finnish was the other dominant language, and then moved into a Swedish school with zero experience in the language. No lessons, no nothing.

What makes me wonder, though, is why obligatory Finnish in Swedish schools never creates much discussion. Most of the students have a rudimentary grip on it already, and can make their way around in it if they must. Most Finnish people I know of my age wouldn't- And couldn't- speak Swedish pretty much at all. If they go to Sweden they ask for service in English. This is mostly because, in my opinion, of the horrible Swedish education offered in schools here. It's not because Swedish is hard- English is harder and there's no problem or argument about learning that, is there? It's the quality of the education. Consider this: When I moved into a Swedish school, my friends continued going to an English school, where the Swedish teacher is known to be bad. In a year I could speak Swedish fluently. I met my friend from that school around Christmas time last year, and he could hardly speak anything.

The solution could be to do the same as I did, to have schooling fully in Swedish for a year with the exception of English and Finnish classes, and then do the reverse. Sort of an extreme immersion-style learning system, because honestly, no matter how many years of classes you take, nothing makes you scramble to learn a language like the pressure I felt in the first year of that school.

 

If you don't mind me asking, are you Finlandssvensk?

]Our german teacher had a good quote on her classroom door that I don't know how to put in English:

Mit jeder Sprache die du kannst, bist du ein Mensch mehr.

It's true.

"With every language you learn/know, you are one person more". Kind of a rough translation.

 

I'd like to learn spanish, russian or sign language atm.

Why sign language? :P I wouldn't personally consider it that useful, or even really an entirely language altogether.

It is an entire language, complete with its own vocabulary and grammar. It could be very useful if you're looking for a job working with disabled people or in education. More useful than you might think.

[Zygimantas]

My school only offers 3 languages.. French, Italian and Spanish. I'm taking Spanish, and I don't like it at all. I will forget it as soon as i'm done after this semester..

[Perakp]

Why sign language? :P I wouldn't personally consider it that useful, or even really an entirely language altogether.

Just for fun I guess, it seems like a very effective and unique language.

 

 

If you don't mind me asking, are you Finlandssvensk?

Na I'm not.

[Zilla]

The school system here in America is horrible. K-5th, you pretty much barely learn anything at all. 6th-8th, Middle School was even worse, all it really was it was pretty much Elementary with Hormones raging, and mine didn't even offer any foreign languages. High school, pretty much Day-Care for teenagers... At least we are finally offered a bit of variety, still not much unless you happen to be like prodigy level and manage to go to a high level school, unless you are like me and your region has zoning laws making you go to specific schools, which forces me to go to a crappy school against my will.

 

Right now I am attempting to learn French, but having no family members who speak a different language other then English and the extremely slow rate of learning during K-8th doesn't help. It's a bit difficult, but like they say the first language is always the hardest. Hopefully one day I will be able to expand my grasp of languages to: English, French, Italian, German, and Russian/Japanese.

[Jernlov]

[...]and I wish my school offered Japanese.[...]

 

You don't. I've put a fair amount of time into learning Japanese and have most of the basics down; but the most I use it for? Translating captions on pictures or reading through Japanese websites. Possibly the biggest waste of time in my life, seeing as I had no intention of going to Japan. It's not that it's difficult; grinding kanji is just incredibly tedious and I don't have the patience for it. I thought it would "open up" a new level of stuff regarding my interests but it hasn't and probably won't for a few years.

 

(I read a chapter of an untranslated manga and it took me six hours.)

 

Anyway, I took both French and German during school. I would say that my German is quite fluent if I take it slowly and try not to get ahead of myself. My French writing is quite good, but I find speaking it to be awkward in comparison to German. I had a lot of free lessons where I would sit and study French and German just for self-satisfaction. Unfortunately, I've gone downhill with them since I've left school, but I can still piece stuff together if I'm careful.

 

I would like to learn Finnish, Polish, Gaeilge and Italian in the future, and maybe Danish or Norwegian if I ever feel like it. Best of luck to those wishing to learn more languages!

[Pirate_Felix]

Its fun to talk with a friend in a language they do speak but the people around you dont. But unfortunately here in Holland, everybody speaks Dutch and English fluently, some speak Frisian, and everybody speaks either Spanish/German/French fluently and the others just a little bit.

 

At school you get like english when you're 10, most people get French/German/Spanish at like 13 and then have to pick one or two when theyre around 15

[Askthedude]

I certainly don't sound like a native Spanish-speaker when I talk in Spanish online.

I can vouch for this :rolleyes:

 

What I noticed when I was learning Spanish in school is that not a lot of the kids in my class even gave a crap about actually learning, they just needed to get a decent enough grade to pass. And generally without propper interest in learning it you find it much more difficult., and then when you start finding it difficult you get annoyed and hate it more, and have less interest in learning the language...

It's like an evil repeating circle :ohnoes:

 

 

Btw Earthy, you can actually speak really well. <3

[____]

When I was in primary school we had the choice of French or German from grade 5 through to grade 7. I opted with German and could speak it fluently after the first year. In later years my school offered Japanese. Then when I went to high school, it just either French or German (again) and only mandatory for grade 8. After that you could ditch the subject entirely and forgot your second language in 6 months of not using or studying it - I know I did.

 

One thing I will not argue against is how easy it is to pick up additional languages the younger you are. When I was in grade 10/11 and tried learning Italian and brushing up on German before heading to Europe I found it stupidly difficult compared to when I was in primary school. It didn't seem to want to stick ever though I was talking to people over MSN/Skype chat with it on a regular basis :(

 

dsavi basically nailed it imo, no better way to learn any language then get thrown in with very little or no knowledge of the language at all. When I finally got to Hungary, what little I knew was quickly expanded in a matter of hours, sure I still had to pull out the translation dictionary a few times when I wasn't sure on words/phrases but I was understandable to the people I was staying with and I could understand them well enough. And in the event of complete language fail... pictures win :)

[EarthySun]

"With every language you learn/know, you are one person more". Kind of a rough translation.

 

Oh, I failed there. I saw it as (literally translating the last part): "...you become a man more". I interpreted that was "more of a man" rather than "one more man".

[SeanyTheSailor]

Or somebody could invent a device that translates a bunch (there are so many I think all would be impossible) of languages into your selected one. I think we've got the technology to make at least a decent one now. Also they'd probably get rich, why spend years learning a language you may never use when you can buy a translator you can use any time you want/need.

[____]

Or somebody could invent a device that translates a bunch (there are so many I think all would be impossible) of languages into your selected one. I think we've got the technology to make at least a decent one now. Also they'd probably get rich, why spend years learning a language you may never use when you can buy a translator you can use any time you want/need.

They exist, although the problem is that due to the nature of slang, informal sentence structure and whatever other else... an accurate translation isn't going to happen the majority of the time. Just look at online tools to do it, you can put it in perfectly and the output will miss totally sometimes :-\