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Tip.it Times March 7 2010

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i still stand by the belief that F2P'ers are whiners, if they complain about this single ad which appears when they are logging in. Get real, they need to pay for the game somehow. Part of that payment comes from F2P people who upgrade to P2P, and advertising P2P is part of getting them to do so.

 

You're still entirely missing the point of the article. It wasn't a massive spam-fest saying how awful jagex are or how disgusting it is that F2Pers have to view advertising, it was a slightly sardonic editorial regarding the ease with which MMG's alleged "black and white" views on forced advertising have been smudged into many shades of grey since the "glory days" when he famously removed the most blatant forms of advertising imposed on f2p. Similarly, the author was not questioning the business acumen of Jagex in advertising a game that will obviously make them more money through subscriptions. It is unfair to insult the intelligence of the F2P player base as a whole and Calebchiam the author, especially so as it ignores the editorial aspect of the article.

 

For the record, I am a fully paid-up member, but that alone does not make me a "better" person. Just because someone is an F2Per does not mean they are, by very definition, a "whiner". The article was not merely a complaint about the ad, therefore any dismissive accusation of F2P whining is considerably wide of the mark.

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Regarding the 'P2P adverts' in the new log in screen, well, I didn't even realize that was there until after I read the article. I honestly just clicked past it every time since the update.

 

I can understand why F2P players would be upset about advertising considering the history of F2P vs. P2P and promises made to F2P players that were broken time and again. I mean, when P2P first came out Jagex said that F2P would get all the same content as P2P, just at a much slower pace; obviously, that wasn't a tenable or even minutely realistic business plan so Jagex had to scrap that. That said, the slight advertisement on the log in screen can hardly be categorized as intrusive. Runescape does need to promote members because it's not just a game, it's a product Jagex is selling because it's a business. It's possible to click past it without reading it, and there are only five items (including the gameplay hours) listed if you don't click on the 'more information' button. Nobody is being forced to sit on that page and read the comparison, and the comparison itself isn't even that in-your-face about it; this is one of the least obtrusive bits of self promotion by a company of a product I have ever seen. Let's cut Jagex a little slack here, it is a business that needs to make profit and this is hardly worse than a restaurant with a sign in the window advertising its specials; and while MMG is a little exuberant, I don't think this goes completely in the face of what he's said. There is absolutely nothing in the comparison that suggests you can't enjoy F2P and must sign up for P2P to have a good time; actually, it says quite the opposite. It says that F2P has some great stuff, P2P just has more stuff if you're interested.

 

Really, considering the various attention grabbing tactics of adverts today, this is barely a blip on the far corner of the radar.


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Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

 

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.

 

Yes there is, don't publish the article. If an article is that bad, then it shouldn't be presented in the Tip.It Times.

 

I have no control over what gets published.


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Thanks for all the responses from everyone. One comment to make, look at the article through the title. Although yes it is a complaint over autotypers in a way, it is more of a complaint about Jagex policy and that, although being strict towards macros, fail to punish the simplest and yet most used macro in RuneScape.

 

 

Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

 

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.

 

Ahh and there was a mistake on my part partially. I took my article and looked at every bolded edit and changed it on my copy and therefore missed the edits that weren't in bold. I've always done it that way and didn't know you didn't bold every edit. Again as I said before, humans make mistakes.

 

Towards the auto-typing article, I think it is garbage.

Nobody has a WPM that high. Not only that, to be able to type at that exact speed for hours and hours and hours without making one single mistake.

 

Hopefully they figure something out soon, because the longer they are in the game, more players will get lured into these scam merch groups and it leads to one big disaster.

 

The way your first sentence was worded confused me. At first, I thought you meant my article and then I read the rest of your post and I assuming you mean Jagex policy towards autotypers are garbage, correct?


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There a few solutions to edit problems, one is that if you have a blatant grammatical error then just change it. Also, the use of the word relived in the macroing article was a poor one, I was confused as to how banning them would have RELIEVED the attitude until I reread a fourth time.


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Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

 

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.

 

Yes there is, don't publish the article. If an article is that bad, then it shouldn't be presented in the Tip.It Times.

 

i still stand by the belief that F2P'ers are whiners, if they complain about this single ad which appears when they are logging in. Get real, they need to pay for the game somehow. Part of that payment comes from F2P people who upgrade to P2P, and advertising P2P is part of getting them to do so.

I stand by the belief that people such as you are a waste of space both on Runescape and TIF. Not all F2pers care about this, and yet here you are calling them all whiners. Maybe it's time you get of your high horse, just because you pay $5 a month doesn't make you better than them. Sometimes I think you just troll threads related to F2p to get a rise out of the people here.

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Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

 

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.

 

Yes there is, don't publish the article. If an article is that bad, then it shouldn't be presented in the Tip.It Times.

 

i still stand by the belief that F2P'ers are whiners, if they complain about this single ad which appears when they are logging in. Get real, they need to pay for the game somehow. Part of that payment comes from F2P people who upgrade to P2P, and advertising P2P is part of getting them to do so.

I stand by the belief that people such as you are a waste of space both on Runescape and TIF. Not all F2pers care about this, and yet here you are calling them all whiners. Maybe it's time you get of your high horse, just because you pay $5 a month doesn't make you better than them. Sometimes I think you just troll threads related to F2p to get a rise out of the people here.

 

^ What he/she said.

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I don't agree on the fact that Jagex is powerless to the auto typers. They could just introduce a very strict policy where everyone who types an X number of lines per X number of seconds should be reportable. This would result in alot of very unhappy players and a ruined gaming environment to play in for the people who type fast by nature, but I don't have the feeling Jagex would care too much about that, should they actually introduce this.

 

Anyway, I personally believe auto typing should be accepted if it's for the purpose of selling/buying items WITHIN the bounderies of the Grand Exchange. Any clan or other spam irrelivant to trading or the use of autotype outside of the G.E. should be reportable

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If there are any grammatical/spelling mistakes then PM Mirrorforced with them so he can change it. Simply pointing out that 'oh there are loads of mistakes' isn't helpful at all. Authors and editors are humans (I don't know why I have to keep reminding people of this fact) and can thus make mistakes.


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I edit for the [Tip.It Times]. I rarely write in [My Blog]. I am an [Ex-Moderator].

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I don't agree on the fact that Jagex is powerless to the auto typers. They could just introduce a very strict policy where everyone who types an X number of lines per X number of seconds should be reportable. This would result in alot of very unhappy players and a ruined gaming environment to play in for the people who type fast by nature, but I don't have the feeling Jagex would care too much about that, should they actually introduce this.

 

Anyway, I personally believe auto typing should be accepted if it's for the purpose of selling/buying items WITHIN the bounderies of the Grand Exchange. Any clan or other spam irrelivant to trading or the use of autotype outside of the G.E. should be reportable

That does seem like a great idea to implement, but that rule would be very simple to go around. The auto-typers would simply lower the lines per minute typed per certain amount of time so it may simulate more of a "human like" timing. But it would in no way deal with the real problem.


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If there are any grammatical/spelling mistakes then PM Mirrorforced with them so he can change it. Simply pointing out that 'oh there are loads of mistakes' isn't helpful at all. Authors and editors are humans (I don't know why I have to keep reminding people of this fact) and can thus make mistakes.

 

There needs to be more communication between the editors and authors, apparently. "Human error" is a poor excuse. Plenty of editors are able to put out newspapers, books, articles, etc, etc, without any mistakes whatsoever because they take the time to make damn sure that there are no mistakes.

 

Here's a nearly foolproof way to churn out great articles:

 

1) Author writes article.

2) Author proofreads article multiple times.

3) Author sends article to editing team.

4) Two or three editors do their thing.

5) Editors send article back to author for revision.

6) Author revises, makes corrections, and sends the article back.

7) An editor looks at the final draft and makes corrections.

8) Article is posted.

9) ????

10) Morningrise333 isn't angry.

 

As explained by N0M_AN0R and Master_Smither, the breakdown occurred when N0M sent the edited article back to Master_Smither for revision, but that would not have happened if an editor had looked at the article before it was supposed to go up on the main site.

 

In conclusion, the problem is a lack of protocol and communication between editor and author. It's nice that you guys and gals are attempting to stick up for each other, but the problem isn't an individual one, so there's no need to get defensive about it. My advice to Mirrorforced would be to lay down some guidelines that would ensure perfect or near-perfect articles every Sunday.

 

If the problem is a lack of helping hands, I'm more than willing to lend mine.


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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Well one, none of us (at least afaik) are professional writers or editors. We don't do this for a living - something that actual editors do. They're professionals.

 

The thing is there is a very short window for people to edit an article - particularly if it's been written during the week on a new topic. There's maybe two or three days, and to get the level of almost professional editing that you expect is impossible.

 

All of our writers and editors are talented people, but it's sometimes practically impossible to make near-perfect articles every week. And overall, I think people would prefer we put out at least an article a week - even if there are still one or two minor errors, than nothing at all.

 

I understand that it might be an issue, but it's one we will deal with. :thumbup:


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Autotyping - Slightly annoying but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really effect me in any way. I'm not really sure why anyone not in a merch clan is standing in the GE for long enough that autotyping would bother them. If autotypers at pest control are bothering you then get off the dock and into the actual game. That's what you are there for to begin with. As for all of the hate towards merch clans try using them to your advantage. I have never been a part of a merch clan but I pay attention to the items that they are exploiting and then I go and get those items. By going with whatever the merch clans are manipulating you do two things. 1. You add more of that item to the game so the price comes down. 2. You can get filthy rich while the prices are high. I made over 100 mil when D-boots were in short supply and I did it all within the rules of the game by fighting spirit mages all day. Basically, my point is quit crying, stay within the rules of the game and benefit from whatever happens to be the flavor of the day.

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If there are any grammatical/spelling mistakes then PM Mirrorforced with them so he can change it. Simply pointing out that 'oh there are loads of mistakes' isn't helpful at all. Authors and editors are humans (I don't know why I have to keep reminding people of this fact) and can thus make mistakes.

 

There needs to be more communication between the editors and authors, apparently. "Human error" is a poor excuse. Plenty of editors are able to put out newspapers, books, articles, etc, etc, without any mistakes whatsoever because they take the time to make damn sure that there are no mistakes.

 

Here's a nearly foolproof way to churn out great articles:

 

1) Author writes article.

2) Author proofreads article multiple times.

3) Author sends article to editing team.

4) Two or three editors do their thing.

5) Editors send article back to author for revision.

6) Author revises, makes corrections, and sends the article back.

7) An editor looks at the final draft and makes corrections.

8) Article is posted.

9) ????

10) Morningrise333 isn't angry.

 

As explained by N0M_AN0R and Master_Smither, the breakdown occurred when N0M sent the edited article back to Master_Smither for revision, but that would not have happened if an editor had looked at the article before it was supposed to go up on the main site.

 

In conclusion, the problem is a lack of protocol and communication between editor and author. It's nice that you guys and gals are attempting to stick up for each other, but the problem isn't an individual one, so there's no need to get defensive about it. My advice to Mirrorforced would be to lay down some guidelines that would ensure perfect or near-perfect articles every Sunday.

 

If the problem is a lack of helping hands, I'm more than willing to lend mine.

 

Human misunderstanding was the cause of the majority of the grammar mistakes in this article. It's a lot harder to get people, who's #1 priority isn't the Times, to find the free time to have multiple editors per article. As Racheya said, we are not professionals, we do this out of the enjoyment of writing, and the only pay we get is the satisfaction of a finished/edited work. Your process of editing is nice, in an ideal world that is. It's not a lack of staff we suffer from, but a lack of activity by our staff, who are mainly still in school, and therefore have work to complete before logging on. If you're looking to become a potential member of the staff, then I suggest you make the edits and send them in. You are then showing that you are a sincere person, who is out to help Tip.it instead of discussing grammatical errors on a Topic about the content of the articles itself. If our articles are not up to your high standards and you cannot accept that no one is perfect, especially on a voluntary 'project', you don't have to read them ;).


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I've already PM'd Mirrorforced about it, but from now on I'll make it my business to edit the articles after they've been posted. If I didn't care about Tip.it or the Times, I wouldn't be going out of my way to do any of this.


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To put it bluntly, [bleep] off.

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Regarding the editing complaints, as editor I feel obliged to state that many of the mistakes present were actually addressed but for whatever reason slipped through the cracks when it was published. I didn't get the chance to review the final version before it was submitted.

 

Authors don't always take the advice of editors and there's nothing I can do about that.

 

Yes there is, don't publish the article. If an article is that bad, then it shouldn't be presented in the Tip.It Times.

 

I have no control over what gets published.

My statement wasn't referenced to you alone, but to the entire editorial staff. Heck, PM different TIFFERs if you are that busy, and need help.

 

And Master_Smither, I know the Tip.It Times staff works hard, and consists of volunteers. Yet if you are excusing poor editing, well there really isn't any excuse for a job poorly done. Not to complain, but I'd rather wait a week and read an excellent article, both in content and editing, then read a [garden tool]-hum article every week.

 

Now, the forums are different. If one reads over his posts to correct mistakes, that is fine, but not exactly needed, as long as one takes care when writing to begin with. My point is that there are different standards.


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I think I can settle this "oh I found some writing mistakes" issue for everyone:

 

If you care more about how things are written down rather then what message the author is getting across... Or rather debate his/her writing style then the actual conversation the author intended to start: GTFO or apply to the Editorial Panel...


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I think I can settle this "oh I found some writing mistakes" issue for everyone:

 

If you care more about how things are written down rather then what message the author is getting across... Or rather debate his/her writing style then the actual conversation the author intended to start: GTFO or apply to the Editorial Panel...

 

I'm attempting to apply, but it's not going very well.

 

EDIT:

 

And Master_Smither, I know the Tip.It Times staff works hard, and consists of volunteers. Yet if you are excusing poor editing, well there really isn't any excuse for a job poorly done. Not to complain, but I'd rather wait a week and read an excellent article, both in content and editing, then read a [garden tool]-hum article every week.

 

Now, the forums are different. If one reads over his posts to correct mistakes, that is fine, but not exactly needed, as long as one takes care when writing to begin with. My point is that there are different standards.

 

Well said.


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Storm, I've done both. i've Pm'ed mistakes I've noticed, and I've applied at least once for the Tip.It Times editorial staff. Heck, if someone makes a grammar mistake on the forums, people point it out! One should expect people to point out mistakes, especially when a higher expectation is set for the Times, compared to forum posts. There is nit-picking to be a pain in the butt, and there are people such as me whose reading enjoyment is greatly improved by a well written and edited article. When I see mistakes, I just go "bleah" inside. It takes away from the article. I know that the staff is human, and mistakes slip through. Believe me, I get get called on the carpet at work on occasion if I make a mistake through ignorance. I'm not trying to be a pain. I'm simply asking for a little more care in editing, or the addition of more people to catch mistakes per article. Have more then one editor read through an article. If they don't have time to fully edit, at least they can read through once and point out any obvious mistakes that are sometimes so easy to pass over. Sometimes the most obvious are the most obscure, for various reasons.


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Regarding: "Login screen - Ad in disguise?"

 

While I sympathize with the players who don't want to be "sold to" when logging into f2p (it wasn't so long ago that I myself was f2p and feeling annoyed by the very same issue) I can also understand the marketing mindset behind the "advertising" in the Lobby. Runescape membership is, at its core, a product, and you can't sell a product without some level of advertising. Having worked in the retail industry for the last two and a half years, I have a better understanding of how hard it is to sell "undesirable" products; you have to sell your proverbial butt off to get one yes out of a hundred no's, and yes, sometimes you have to get kinda pushy and heavy-handed to get that 1-in-100 yes. That's just the nature of the beast.

Granted, this is a bit heavier-handed than usual, but memberships are Jagex's bread-and-butter and they really don't have many options when it comes to advertising their product. Sure, they already advertise in game, but the players complain about that. They put up banners above the free-to-play window, and players complain about that. They put a comparison of f2p to p2p benefits at the login, and naturally, players complain. For all the fun and player-friendliness Jagex exudes throughout their game(s), at the end of the day, they''re still running a business, and businesses require revenue to operate. Memberships are Jagex's primary revenue and they have every right to advertise it. I know it's annoying - it gets on my nerves too, just as I also know trying to get customers at my job to sign up for Birthday Clubs, Rewards cards and Credit Cards is annoying to them, but it's one of the unfortunate things we all have to put up with in order to enjoy the better aspects of the products we use.

I don't mean to sound like "Blah, cry me a river", because I do understand the annoyance, but at the same time, I kinda do want to say, "Deal with it; this minor annoyance is allowing you to play your game." I just wish there was a less harsh way I can say that...


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First article was too painful to read due to the grammatical mistakes, so I won't comment on the actual content of the article other than saying that using the excuse "humans make errors" does not cut it when you are an editor or even a writer for that matter. That many mistakes isn't human error. Knowing fragments from complete sentences and when run-on's occur should be common knowledge that shouldn't be overlooked. I don't think we should be the people emailing Mirrorforced with the errors because we are not the editors and it would take a while to correct all of the mistakes.

 

Moving on to the second article (which also had plenty of errors), I don't see a problem with the Runescape ad, as it only provides information on their own product. The revenue they bring in due to the members version of the game is what supports the free version of the game. So if you do not want to pay for a game you spend a good deal amount of time playing, then you should not be so stubborn and expect not to view advertisements.


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thought both articles were pointless

 

1) autotypers aren't that much of a pain as if we simply lost autotypers they will be replaced by players buying and selling that also fill up our chat screens

 

2) and Jagex have every right to promote their product to the scroungers also known as f2pers

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First article was too painful to read due to the grammatical mistakes, so I won't comment on the actual content of the article other than saying that using the excuse "humans make errors" does not cut it when you are an editor or even a writer for that matter. That many mistakes isn't human error. Knowing fragments from complete sentences and when run-on's occur should be common knowledge that shouldn't be overlooked. I don't think we should be the people emailing Mirrorforced with the errors because we are not the editors and it would take a while to correct all of the mistakes.

 

Moving on to the second article (which also had plenty of errors), I don't see a problem with the Runescape ad, as it only provides information on their own product. The revenue they bring in due to the members version of the game is what supports the free version of the game. So if you do not want to pay for a game you spend a good deal amount of time playing, then you should not be so stubborn and expect not to view advertisements.

 

 

too hard to read your serious bro? you need to get out of your university library and into the internet grammar is for books

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