^Nothing to do with the US healthcare, but your system in Norway is crap. The votes out in the country-side are worth more than those in the city. If the votes were equal, you would have the blue side governing.

The Americans have the Senate... It's a global phenomenon. I agree the norwegian country side have too much power, but that can easily be avoided in any other country. This distribution of electorate by region and population has nothing to do with the party sytem. However, It's almost impossible to change the distribution in norway, since the population has been redistributed since the system was put in place in 1945. Those who represent the country side would have to remove themselves from power, which will never really happen voluntarily. The powerhungry become politicians, not the selfless. The system is good, but of course it needs fine-tuning. unlike the inherent flaws of a bipartite state, or a 5 party state, the grounded principle is effective.

 

 

 

This graphic speaks for itself. It's hard to get a more expensive system than the current american one. reform is screechingly neccessary. What would work better than the current reform, in cutting costs, while ensuring coverage remains attainable for all?

The Senate has a Democrat majority - it will pretty much be impossible for it not to pass.

 

I don't really care, though. Surprised more people aren't freaking out about this.

 

It makes me feel unsafe that every single republican voted no and the bill was still passed by 28 votes. <_<

health insurance will be extended to nearly all Americans

kthx

imposes new taxes on the wealthy

AMG GTFO socialism.

 

 

Looks a bit liberal, but I'll give it time.

imposes new taxes on the wealthy

AMG GTFO socialism.

 

I feel somewhat guilty for not giving any real comprehensive argument in this thread as of yet,

 

but you're kidding right?

It doesn't apply to me :) My state (Virginia) made it illegal for the Federal gov't to force this onto anyone in here. PRO.

 

Someone doesn't know anything about the Constitution. This debate ended a long time ago on the grounds of the Commerce and Supremacy Clauses. Our stupid AG and Governor are just ginning up the most radical far-right portions of the Republican party. It won't amount to anything. In fact, Republicans like Chuck Grassley, who railed against this bill as a "death panel," are now bragging about how great it is:

 

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/grassley-look-how-great-this-health-care-bill-is.php?ref=fbfp

 

Same as the stimulus: say how bad it is, water it down, vote against it, then take credit for it.

 

About the health care bill:

 

It's [cabbage], absolute [cabbage]. And despite all of that, I supported its passage. It's better than nothing, and these millions of people need help. It won't address costs really, but that can't happen without single payer, or all-payer. The Netherlands and Switzerland rely on private insurance, but:

 

a. It's not for profit

b. It's heavily regulated

c. They have an all-payer that sets prices on drugs, procedures and medical equipment

 

Single payer is much better, as it does all of that, plus it brings everyone into the same pool, reducing health costs for most people.

 

Anyway, this health care bill looks almost exactly like the health care bill of 1993/1994 proposed by the Republican Party, but that's not something the cable news networks or radio hosts will be telling anyone. Don't believe me? Look for yourself:

 

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2010/February/23/GOP-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx

 

And here's a nifty chart for comparison's sake:

 

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-comparison.aspx

 

This bill is a Republican health care bill, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

imposes new taxes on the wealthy

AMG GTFO socialism.

 

I feel somewhat guilty for not giving any real comprehensive argument in this thread as of yet,

 

but you're kidding right?

 

Lol yes. I live in a somewhat wealthy town and it's just hilarious to listen to all the conservative kids complaining about how Obama is taking their (parents') money and nobody supports health care anyways.

imposes new taxes on the wealthy

AMG GTFO socialism.

 

I feel somewhat guilty for not giving any real comprehensive argument in this thread as of yet,

 

but you're kidding right?

 

Lol yes. I live in a somewhat wealthy town and it's just hilarious to listen to all the conservative kids complaining about how Obama is taking their (parents') money and nobody supports health care anyways.

Why is it hilarious?

imposes new taxes on the wealthy

AMG GTFO socialism.

 

I feel somewhat guilty for not giving any real comprehensive argument in this thread as of yet,

 

but you're kidding right?

 

Lol yes. I live in a somewhat wealthy town and it's just hilarious to listen to all the conservative kids complaining about how Obama is taking their (parents') money and nobody supports health care anyways.

Why is it hilarious?

 

Because the people in this guy's neighborhood are riled up about something they don't know anything about. If that's their definition of socialism, we've been socialist for over 100 years. Besides, effective tax rates show the wealthiest paying smaller percentages of their income than the middle class.

imposes new taxes on the wealthy

AMG GTFO socialism.

 

I feel somewhat guilty for not giving any real comprehensive argument in this thread as of yet,

 

but you're kidding right?

 

Lol yes. I live in a somewhat wealthy town and it's just hilarious to listen to all the conservative kids complaining about how Obama is taking their (parents') money and nobody supports health care anyways.

Why is it hilarious?

 

Because the people in this guy's neighborhood are riled up about something they don't know anything about. If that's their definition of socialism, we've been socialist for over 100 years. Besides, effective tax rates show the wealthiest paying smaller percentages of their income than the middle class.

I see. For starters, it's socialism.

Secondly i wonder, if you've been socialists for 100 years, what's Europe? Socialists super style? (i tried to make a joke but it hasn't worked)

 

I'm not American (nor do i live in the US) so my contribution to this debate maybe isn't too great.

So any form of progressive taxation is socialism?

 

Actually, let me rephrase that. So any form of taxation is socialism?

So any form of progressive taxation is socialism?

 

Actually, let me rephrase that. So any form of taxation is socialism?

I view this healthcare bill as socialism, yes. This is similar to the insurance we have here in my country, the law requires you to have it. You can choose private aswell, but you'll still have to pay the public one aswell.

I'm not that of a far out right wing person, that i consider every taxation to be socialism no.

So any form of progressive taxation is socialism?

 

Actually, let me rephrase that. So any form of taxation is socialism?

Dude, no one is saying that. This is socialism, but that doesn't mean that you can just go down the gradient of taxation and call everything socialism. There's a line that's being crossed, as blurry as that line is.

It doesn't apply to me :) My state (Virginia) made it illegal for the Federal gov't to force this onto anyone in here. PRO.

 

Someone doesn't know anything about the Constitution.

 

 

Ok. We shall see then.

We really need to learn how to paraphrase.. But I'm all for socialized healthcare and the only reason we didn't get it sooner, is because we'd rather throw money into are military then take care of the health of our country.

 

You do know what country we are in? I will BUY you a ticket if you move to england, and stay there. This isn't a socialistic state. This is a democratic republic.

 

The fact that they had to push this thing though, despite what the majority of people wanted, and with all those tricks and treats, is despicable. This wasn't reform. This was a takeover.

 

I have 5 main issues with this.

 

1.) I don't want to live in a nanny state. I will take care of myself, the Gov't doesn't need to run everything.

 

2.) I don't believe it is constitutional. The gov't doesn't have the right to force people to buy health insurance.

 

3.) Funds abortion with taxpayer dollars. (Which was illegal)

 

4.) Health care is 1/6th of the US economy.

 

5.) Any business the Gov't runs, is crappy. Look at the Post Office, for example.

 

Ah, and lets not forget, taxation starts almost immediately, yet this bill doesn't come into full force until 2014.

 

Also, nacho. How do you INCREASE coverage to include more people, and keep the SAME coverage for others, WITHOUT raising price?

 

 

3.) Funds abortion with taxpayer dollars. (Which was illegal)

 

 

Pretty sure they threw that part out of the window in order to avoid controversy. I think that the Catholic Church threatened to shut down its hospitals in the US if that happened, and a significant number of hospitals in the US are Catholic.

Actually, thats what was thought.

 

1.) Its an executive order, which even according to Bart Stupak could be reversed by Obama easily.

 

2.) President can't just issue an executive order to change laws whenever he wants.

Some people are idiots

 

In a steriotypical way I'm gonna say that its the democrats.

 

Gratz on taxing your way out of a recession

 

The second revoloutionary war is about to start if these idiots dont leart.

 

peace

Mck

A second revolution you say? GET OVER HERE BRITS! And France, be sure to keep the majority of their forces away from us so we can later act like we did it on our own.

A second revolution you say? GET OVER HERE BRITS! And France, be sure to keep the majority of their forces away from us so we can later act like we did it on our own.

 

 

 

Who are the real Traitors now?

 

Let's applaud Prime Minister Barrack H. Obama. The real British Empire operates in Washington, folks! You believed George Washington's talk about republicanism, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? By George, he was King George III in disguise!

 

Dumb Colonials.

So any form of progressive taxation is socialism?

 

Actually, let me rephrase that. So any form of taxation is socialism?

Dude, no one is saying that. This is socialism, but that doesn't mean that you can just go down the gradient of taxation and call everything socialism. There's a line that's being crossed, as blurry as that line is.

 

How is it socialism when it's private insurance companies? Last I heard, there is no government employed health care providers other than the Veterans Affairs hospitals. There's literally ZERO government take over here. How is it socialism? There is no "blurry" line. It either is, or it isn't. It's easy to distinguish. The UK? Socialized health care. Sweden? Socialized health care. The Netherlands? Not socialized health care. Switzerland? Not socialized health care.

 

Were the Republicans of 1994 socialists?

 

Define socialism for me, Reb. You sure as hell couldn't do it before. Taxing is socialism if you define it as "redistributing wealth," even if it's a flat tax. You're close to joining the libertarian morons who call taxation theft.

 

We know how to solve this health care crisis: it's called price setting on procedures, drugs and medical equipment. Maryland has been doing it on just procedures since the 1970's, and look at their costs compared to the US:

 

 

However, no one, not even the Democratic party, is prepared to take on the hospitals, doctors, big pharma or medical equipment manufacturers. Until that happens, costs will continue to rise. The only reason to support this bill is to establish that health care is a right, and to help 30+ million individuals by 2019.

The second revoloutionary war is about to start if these idiots dont leart.

 

peace

Mck

Yeah you guys. Let's leart.

Breaking News

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8586492.stm

 

The bill was sent back to the House of Representatives after Republicans raised concerns over two technical violations.

this is the bill that never ends...

If only it was a story not a bill....

Then everyone would love the Story That Never Ends. :thumbsup:

Well, technically only the reconciliation package is being sent back. The actual bill has already been signed by President Obama, and is therefore law. The reconciliation package is just technical differences in the House and Senate versions of the bill that must be agreed upon fully by both houses. It will in no way affect whether the bill becomes law.