Why does Jagex get new skills so wrong?

[Slayer_Jesse]

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS THE OPINIONS OF THE AUTHOR. THEY ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE TAKEN AS ABSOLUTE FACT.

DISCLAIMER NUMBER TWO: I DO LIKE THESE SKILLS (EXCEPT HUNTER) I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE A POINT.

 

Hi all. First, a bit about myself. Ive been an avid runescape player since late 2004, joining just after rs2 was released. (although i obviously didn't know this at the time! :razz: ) Ive been around for every skill released since then. (however i was only a low lvl f2p when slayer was first released, so I cant comment on that.) Anyway, my point is that it seems that every skill since construction has started as some sort of failure. Hunter was plagued by a lack of worthwhile rewards, and after the new skill frenzy subsided, the general public quickly abandoned it. I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the fiasco that summoning was, but I will anyway in case you are too new. It was extremely overhyped, and when released, it was full to the brim of problems. Shards cost double what they do now, (and you thought summoning was expensive now!) summons only lasted 3 minutes unless you continuously clicked the refresh button, and many of the best summons we now take for granted weren't even released yet. Jagex promised a fix with the next batch of summons in 1 month. It took two months for it to be fixed.

 

Witch brings me to the newest "skill" (COUGH; OVERGROWN MINIGAME; COUGH) dungeoneering. [spoiler=rant on Dungeoneering] Its basically a minigame... sorry, "activity" that got so overstuffed with content that the only way they could contain it was to put a skill framework over it. Honestly, the skill makes no sense. I have to level up to go deeper into a dungeon? Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, Over? Not to mention it takes waaaay too long to level! I'm only 47 now, a week after its release. Hunter took me 2 days of playing to reach 50, and that was with me going to each new prey (not the most efficient method, ill tell you!) And dont get me started on rewards tokens. sure the rewards are great, but whats the point if you have to pass on the lower level rewards to get one of the good weapons/shields?!?[edit, price fixes released 4/21/10 make this point invalid, but still, should have been fixed from the start.]

 

 

My point is, why does Jagex, with all of its QA power, get new skills so wrong? Things that are so obviously broken seem to slip thu the cracks. Now dont get me wrong, QA usualy does a great job with most content. It just seems that on skills they drop the ball, content wise. Please reply with your thoughts and comments.

[Jabuli]

If you think dungeoneering is too slow, then you're probably a bit slow yourself.

[Mecakoto]

Hey look. An opinion presented as a fact. Who would have though...

[LatinII]

"The last three skilsl have been falures"

 

Says who? I like Dungeoneering a lot.

[Slayer_Jesse]

If you think dungeoneering is too slow, then you're probably a bit slow yourself.

 

thats not it tho. i know how to train with the fastest methods, and medium dungeons still take atleast an hour for only a few k xp. small dungeons still take half an hour for even less xp.

 

Hey look. An opinion presented as a fact. Who would have though...

 

an opinion posted as opinion. you can disagree with me.

 

"The last three skilsl have been falures"

 

Says who? I like Dungeoneering a lot.

 

i do like dungeonerring too, as far as actualy playing it goes. its just training it is a pain.

[SanNo1]

Wait, it's too slow? I'm glad that they released a skill that doesn't have hundreds of people at 99 within the first weeks, like hunter.

 

I don't get why people don't like it because it's a skill. They would call it great content if it was called a minigame apparently, no logic there.

[Stormfolk]

I don't mind it as a skill, just don't get why all of a sudden this skill can be leveled up to 120.

[Hippodo]

I don't see anything wrong with lots of content, nor with leveling up in order to progress in the dungeon. Lore-wise, it makes sense that you need better skills the closer you get to Bilrach's headquarters. Furthermore, would you like this skill better if you COULD achieve level 50 within two days? That sounds like a ridiculously easy skill to me... I'm glad people actually have to spend some time and effort in order to gain a high level, better than seeing another race to 99 like with Hunter which only lasted 30 days or so.

[Slayer_Jesse]

I don't see anything wrong with lots of content, nor with leveling up in order to progress in the dungeon. Lore-wise, it makes sense that you need better skills the closer you get to Bilrach's headquarters. Furthermore, would you like this skill better if you COULD achieve level 50 within two days? That sounds like a ridiculously easy skill to me... I'm glad people actually have to spend some time and effort in order to gain a high level, better than seeing another race to 99 like with Hunter which only lasted 30 days or so.

 

i dont care about 99's. I'm jsut dreading getting this skill into the 80's. itl prob take days to get one lvl...and i get needing better skills to get close to his base, but the dungeoneering skill still don't make a lick of sense. and if they claim that floors are magically sealed from people with lower dungeon lvls as the reasoning for the skill, it would be idiotic and poor reasoning. (not all plot holes can be filled by MAGIC!!!)

[Hippodo]

I don't see anything wrong with lots of content, nor with leveling up in order to progress in the dungeon. Lore-wise, it makes sense that you need better skills the closer you get to Bilrach's headquarters. Furthermore, would you like this skill better if you COULD achieve level 50 within two days? That sounds like a ridiculously easy skill to me... I'm glad people actually have to spend some time and effort in order to gain a high level, better than seeing another race to 99 like with Hunter which only lasted 30 days or so.

 

i dont care about 99's. I'm jsut dreading getting this skill into the 80's. itl prob take days to get one lvl...

Well, in my eyes that sounds rather good. I would hate it if the high levels could be easily reached.

[ssamriga]

 

 

i do like dungeonerring too, as far as actualy playing it goes. its just training it is a pain.

 

 

umm, doesn't that answer your question/rant? :)

You like the skill, but do not like to train it slowly, be grateful you only joined after RS2, you wouldn't like the "old" rs with no "x all" options etc :D

[Hajutze]

i dont care about 99's. I'm jsut dreading getting this skill into the 80's. itl prob take days to get one lvl...

206750 exp from 80 to 81, considering that people can make ... 20k/h+ at higher levels I'd say 10 hours ... (depending on how much you play per day you could say "It'l prob take a day to get one level")

[Shadiochao]

For now I do think it's very much like a minigame. But eventually it could become more like a skill, especially if things like new dungeons are released, and if they made it useful in the rest of Runescape.

One thing I hate about it is how teams get so much better xp than people who solo, since I don't like people or relying on them for things. I do like the rest of the skill though.

 

I don't really think much of Hunter, but I think Summoning was one of the best updates they've released since I started playing, which was somewhere around early 2006.

I wouldn't call any of them failures though.

[Jabuli]

If you think dungeoneering is too slow, then you're probably a bit slow yourself.

 

thats not it tho. i know how to train with the fastest methods, and medium dungeons still take atleast an hour for only a few k xp. small dungeons still take half an hour for even less xp.

 

Dungeoneering has a very well balanced exp rate if compared to your actual skill level unlike most other skills. It might feel strange that you can't just breeze through levels 1-80 like it was nothing and then struggle with the latter levels when your exp. rate stays the same. Dungeoneering will never be really fast to level up (expect for the first 15 levels) nor will it be really slow.

[Slayer_Jesse]

hmm, it seems i did this wrong >_< oh well ,rest of post is still valid.

 

I don't get why people don't like it because it's a skill. They would call it great content if it was called a minigame apparently, no logic there.

I cant speak for everyone else, but personally it just seems the "skill" part of it is just forced. its too awkward. Idk, maby this will pass with time.

[Zepheras]

I'm interested in how you explain why the other two skills fail.

[Danqazmlp]

What's wrong with it being slow to level. I don't remember people being this whiny when Slayer was released. Maybe people are just spoiled by fast skills now days and have forgotten how to have long term goals?

 

This is really such an opinionated post, there is no fact in saying that the last 3 skills have been failures, for arguments sake i can just say they have all been success' because the game is still running.

[ilovecuttingyews]

Hey look. An opinion presented as a fact. Who would have though...

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

Hunters rewards

Why should every skill have 'rewards'? Skills, like this game, are supposed to be played for the fun. The 'rewards' are just an extra. I'd say all of the sweet things you can get from hunter (chins, sallies, etc) is enough to be called a 'reward'.

 

Summoning

I agree, it wasn't great when it was introduced, but Jagex listened to the players that logicly came to them with suggestions. They improved the skill and now it is arguably the most usefull skill out there.

 

You complain about the exp being slow

In these days where people grind the same things over and over to get 200k+ exp/hour, I think it's refreshing that there is another skill where the exp is on par with RC, Agility, Slayer. This game has become so much about "How can I grind to 99 the fastest?" instead of "What is the most fun way to train this skill?" If you want to get fast levels, go buy some sharks, head to Rogues Den, and grind some levels.

Also, you're not just training D'eering, your training ALL of your other skills. In the time it took me to get 47, I've got over 500k exp in other skills.

 

I'm sure I could go on all day about how I don't like your opinion, but that's no fun. So I'll leave you with this:

 

Do you enjoy the actual gameplay of D'eering? If so, shut up and just play it. It doesn't matter what it's called as long as you enjoy it. For all I care, they could have called it a new pie recipie. I enjoy it, and I will play it without complaining what it's called. If you don't like it, then go grind some more cooking levels. No one forces you to play new content. There are over 15,000 hours of gameplay, I'm sure you can find some that you like. If not.....why do you even play?

[Slayer_Jesse]

What's wrong with it being slow to level. I don't remember people being this whiny when Slayer was released. Maybe people are just spoiled by fast skills now days and have forgotten how to have long term goals?

 

This is really such an opinionated post, there is no fact in saying that the last 3 skills have been failures, for arguments sake i can just say they have all been success' because the game is still running.

 

I never meant for this post to be fact. (time for a first post disclaimer....) I understand long term goals. its jsut that the "easy" levels of a skill shoundt take forever, IMO.

[Beloved]

at the beginning i liked dungeoneering a lot, then at around 55 i was absolutely gutted with it because i couldnt stand being punished for being maxed combat. But now that i have come to terms with that i love it again :)

 

it's just how it is, you either go with it or you can choose not to participate.

[Bladewing]

Hi I like to whine about the lack of weekly updates, "omfg wen is next skill", "old wildy bak we pay we say". When an update comes around it sucks.

 

Did I find the right support group?

[Slayer_Jesse]

Alright, people don't seem to be getting the point of this thread.. its not about "I don't like X skill" Its about the things that were wrong with them when they were released, and why Jagex couldn't see what was wrong with them. If i go saying " Skill Y was bad, But then was then fixed by update Z and now i love it" doesn't really help me make my point. Anything Ive said about the skills were just examples.

[Slayer_Jesse]

Hi I like to whine about the lack of weekly updates, "omfg wen is next skill", "old wildy bak we pay we say". When an update comes around it sucks.

 

Did I find the right support group?

 

Nope, keep looking. Sure its disappointing if there's no update this week, but ill live. idc when the next skill is, and I was never a big pk'er. I was glad to see those whiny idiots go. next comment.

 

Edit, crap, didnt realize i double posted >_<

[Mecakoto]

Alright, people don't seem to be getting the point of this thread.. its not about "I don't like X skill" Its about the things that were wrong with them when they were released, and why Jagex couldn't see what was wrong with them. If i go saying " Skill Y was bad, But then was then fixed by update Z and now i love it" doesn't really help me make my point. Anything Ive said about the skills were just examples.

 

I have one thing to say to the bolded:

 

Summoning.

[Omali]

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS THE OPINIONS OF THE AUTHOR. THEY ARE NOT INTENDED TO BE TAKEN AS ABSOLUTE FACT.

DISCLAIMER NUMBER TWO: I DO LIKE THESE SKILLS (EXCEPT HUNTER) I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE A POINT.

 

Translation: WARNING: THE FOLLOWING ARE NOT OPINIONS BUT IF I CALL THEM OPINIONS IT MAKES ME IMPERVIOUS TO PEOPLE CALLING ME WRONG.

 

Hi all. First, a bit about myself. Ive been an avid runescape player since late 2004, joining just after rs2 was released. (although i obviously didn't know this at the time! :razz: ) Ive been around for every skill released since then. (however i was only a low lvl f2p when slayer was first released, so I cant comment on that.) Anyway, my point is that it seems that every skill since construction has been some sort of failure. Hunter was plagued by a lack of worthwhile rewards, and after the new skill frenzy subsided, it was quickly abandoned. I'm sure I don't have to tell you about the fiasco that summoning was, but I will anyway in case you are too new. It was extremely overhyped, and when released, it was full to the brim of problems. Shards cost double what they do now, (and you thought summoning was expensive now!) summons only lasted 3 minutes unless you continuously clicked the refresh button, and many of the best summons we now take for granted weren't even released yet. Jagex promised a fix with the next batch of summons in 1 month. It took two months for it to be fixed.

 

Are you sure Hunter was abandoned? Because these complaints I've been seeing since Hunter's release of overcrowded spots tells a different story. Summoning was only a fiasco until they made some fixes and released batch 2, after which it became a pricey change to a huge change to the game. Yes, it needed balancing after it was released, but it became eons more useful when batch 2 released. As for the batch being delayed, cry some more. Delays happen.

 

Witch brings me to the newest "skill" (COUGH; OVERGROWN MINIGAME; COUGH) dungeoneering. [spoiler=rant on Dungeoneering] Its basically a minigame... sorry, "activity" that got so overstuffed with content that the only way they could contain it was to put a skill framework over it. Honestly, the skill makes no sense. I have to level up to go deeper into a dungeon? Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, Over? Not to mention it takes waaaay too long to level! I'm only 47 now, a week after its release. Hunter took me 2 days of playing to reach 50, and that was with me going to each new prey (not the most efficient method, ill tell you!) And dont get me started on rewards tokens. sure the rewards are great, but whats the point if you have to pass on the lower level rewards to get one of the good weapons/shields?!?

 

Lulz gona maak sum nee slappurs. So the skill actually takes time to level? I'm sorry it doesn't suit your tiny attention span.

 

My point is, why does Jagex, with all of its QA power, get new skills so wrong? Things that are so obviously broken seem to slip thu the cracks. Now dont get me wrong, QA usualy does a great job with most content. It just seems that on skills they drop the ball, content wise. Please reply with your thoughts and comments.

 

You mentioned every skill after construction, but:

 

1. You didn't point out any problems with summoning other than that it was unbalanced at release. Obviously broken? Huge failure? Summoning was neither.

2. You didn't make any valid points on Hunter other than some lame-brain comment that it was abandoned which, if you talk to any hunters, can be easily refuted.

3. For Dungeoneering you just made some comments that it's "not a skill" and "doesn't make sense". Yes, it takes long to skill up and the very useful rewards are expensive, but other than semantics for your other talking points you bring nothing to the table.

 

In short, you're wrong. Not only that, but you kill any valid comments you had on Dungeoneering because you threw out lies on the other skills, made yourself look like a smartass child with your regurgitated condescension (It's a minigame, er sorry, an activity).

 

Key to Dungeoneering is it is different. Your average whiner hates change as it is, but different change? That's [bleep]ing terrifying.