Why does Jagex get new skills so wrong?

[Kiriyama]

People disagreeing with you does not equate to flaming.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

 

that argument would be valid, if said skills were actually "fun". hunter is a boring grind, summoning is again, another grind (tho some of the familiars are fun) and no one was talking about construction, because that was a skill done right.

 

I have a lot of fun with summoning, actually. Gathering charms, training, and using the skill are all enjoyable to me.

 

I also think dungeoneering is the most entertaining thing released to RS so far. My previous favorite thing was Stealing Creation. Before that, it was Slayer.

 

You cant just say that skills "are NOT fun". It seems to me there isnt a whole lot you DO find fun so maybe a different game would be the right fix for you.

[Hajutze]

that argument would be valid, if said skills were actually "fun". hunter is a boring grind, summoning is again, another grind (tho some of the familiars are fun) and no one was talking about construction, because that was a skill done right.

I think by fun he meant less grindy. It's runescape - every aspect (ok 99%) of runescape is ... about grinding. I can't instantly think of a skill that doesn't need a good share of grind to level it up.

[Slayer_Jesse]

 

 

that argument would be valid, if said skills were actually "fun". hunter is a boring grind, summoning is again, another grind (tho some of the familiars are fun) and no one was talking about construction, because that was a skill done right.

 

I have a lot of fun with summoning, actually. Gathering charms, training, and using the skill are all enjoyable to me.

 

I also think dungeoneering is the most entertaining thing released to RS so far. My previous favorite thing was Stealing Creation. Before that, it was Slayer.

 

You cant just say that skills "are NOT fun". It seems to me there isnt a whole lot you DO find fun so maybe a different game would be the right fix for you.

granted, i dont like most skills. what i DO find fun is slayer, and hell, i do like dungeoneering itself, jsut not the points i listed before. and yes, i dont like to grind as much as i used to.

 

People disagreeing with you does not equate to flaming.

agreed, but people rehashing the same lines that they use when they are flaming does.

[RSBDavid]

Instead of arguing over who responds to what can we please get back to the original topic?

 

Hunter: Massively underdeveloped, took about 6 months to create and it shows badly, still! There have been no major additions to this skill since it was brought out. The only decent thing I like about this skill is bare-handed impling catching.

 

Summoning: Over-hyped and badly released. So many alterations were made it was hilarious.

 

Dungeoneering: A large update, but once again the skill is HALF FINISHED. Why bother leveling past 69 when your prestige is stuck at that level. You would be better off leveling other skills and waiting for the second half of this minigame to be released.

 

Jagex really need to sign up 1k long-standing players to Beta testing with non-disclosure agreements. I would solve so many issues regarding their updates.

somebody who gets what im trying to say and isnt flaming?! IMPOSSIBLE!

 

 

 

Maybe every skill doesn't have to provide some reward. Maybe there is this thing called "fun". You are looking at every skill like it has to have a specific purpose which enhances game play. You should enjoy the skills otherwise you need to go outside.

 

Hunter -> designed to be relaxing

Summoning -> One of the best skills since slayer.

Construction -> Money drainer and a way to show off your creativity.

 

that argument would be valid, if said skills were actually "fun". hunter is a boring grind, summoning is again, another grind (tho some of the familiars are fun) and no one was talking about construction, because that was a skill done right.

 

 

Why do you have to grind the skill? Can't you train slower and enjoy it. [troll]You Americans want everything fast. [/troll] Just slow down and enjoy the skills. No one is forcing you to grind them, if you choose to do so then you are making the skill boring not Jagex..

[Mecakoto]

that argument would be valid, if said skills were actually "fun". hunter is a boring grind, summoning is again, another grind (tho some of the familiars are fun) and no one was talking about construction, because that was a skill done right.

 

Hi opinion dressed as fact. How are you doing today? I've seen you a lot in this thread, but forgot to actually say hi properly.

 

[troll]You Americans want everything fast. [/troll]

 

Stereotyping is fun, isn't it? What is your place of origin, ethnicity, and religion so I can have fun, too? ^_^

 

 

Now, in regards to the thread:

 

It isn't a bad thing that Jagex releases skills with holes in the content. It allows them to develop what the players en masse want (and to change what players don't like [summoning shards, familiars, etc.]). This leads to better success of the skill in question. Some people might not agree with the method, but it is a very good method from both a business and a customer satisfaction perspective. If you want changes, you can post on the RSOF. Make a big enough noise and you'll get noticed, even if it doesn't look like it at first.

[RSBDavid]

 

 

Stereotyping is fun, isn't it? What is your place of origin, ethnicity, and religion so I can have fun, too? ^_^

 

 

 

 

 

I was born in London, England then smuggled to America, I am white, and I do not wish to disclose my religion.

[Mecakoto]

 

 

Stereotyping is fun, isn't it? What is your place of origin, ethnicity, and religion so I can have fun, too? ^_^

 

 

 

 

 

I was born in London, England then smuggled to America, I am white, and I do not wish to disclose my religion.

 

Pip pip, tea and crumpets, my lad? Of course, of course! Eminem reference. Lack of religion reference. Further insults. Something unrelated.

 

Something on topic.

 

That'll do it. Don't really feel like trying to hard today. =p

[Sublexation]

To my knowledge, RS2 was the only "update" that Jagex has ever released a beta for. They do internal beta testing but that can only help just so much. Usually Jagex does very well with releasing updates that the large majority of the community likes. Until you release the new skill or update to the main game, there is now knowing how the community will react so naturally they won't get it right every time. It just so happens that recently they have had some trouble releasing skills that could really have benefited from beta testing.

[Slayer_Jesse]

that argument would be valid, if said skills were actually "fun". hunter is a boring grind, summoning is again, another grind (tho some of the familiars are fun) and no one was talking about construction, because that was a skill done right.

 

Hi opinion dressed as fact. How are you doing today? I've seen you a lot in this thread, but forgot to actually say hi properly.

 

[troll]You Americans want everything fast. [/troll]

 

Stereotyping is fun, isn't it? What is your place of origin, ethnicity, and religion so I can have fun, too? ^_^

 

 

Now, in regards to the thread:

 

It isn't a bad thing that Jagex releases skills with holes in the content. It allows them to develop what the players en masse want (and to change what players don't like [summoning shards, familiars, etc.]). This leads to better success of the skill in question. Some people might not agree with the method, but it is a very good method from both a business and a customer satisfaction perspective. If you want changes, you can post on the RSOF. Make a big enough noise and you'll get noticed, even if it doesn't look like it at first.

 

wow, a calm reasoned argument that i dont agree with, and noone got hurt. (yet.)

[RSBDavid]

 

 

Stereotyping is fun, isn't it? What is your place of origin, ethnicity, and religion so I can have fun, too? ^_^

 

 

 

 

 

I was born in London, England then smuggled to America, I am white, and I do not wish to disclose my religion.

 

Pip pip, tea and crumpets, my lad? Of course, of course! Eminem reference. Lack of religion reference. Further insults. Something unrelated.

 

Something on topic.

 

That'll do it. Don't really feel like trying to hard today. =p

 

I only lived in England for 6 days so your stereotypes don;t really effect me. You can ware the ink off of your keys on your keyboard if you want to still continue to argue. Feel free to pm me.

[Triquos]

Being as this is all a matter of opinion, here is mine.

 

I do agree with the idea of the last 3 skills not coming out as they should have. Summoning cost something like 500M first day it came out and there were hardly any good familiars. It is pretty much the complete opposite now and I myself will soon have level 96 in it, 99 *hopefully* by the end of this year.

 

I don't really remember construction much and hunter, well, the only reward I wanted then was the spottier cape, and to this day I haven't trained it past 77 because everyone hogs the red chinchompa spots - and no I'm not going to put flowers down and do everything I can to steal a spot either, it's quite rude and I don't want to end up down that path just for the best training method. I will have to find an alternative training method, maybe up to the level where I can catch those ruby harvest barehandedly? I think I'll do that.

 

As far as Dungeoneering is concerned. When I was reading through the update and came across the "After adventuring (with a group of up to 4 other players)" I thought WTF? Skills shouldn't be team based to gain faster experience. In fact it should be slower, because you're using their skills as well. People should be rewarded for doing things solo, but like I say, that's a matter of opinion.

 

I think the rewards are very good, albeit somewhat half baked, I'm sure with updates there will be more, as I can't see what else right now people will get after they have all chaotic weapons/shields other than level 99, or indeed 120. I can only hope they do what they did with Summoning, whereby giving the skill another update to give more incentives to train it further. For me all I want is the gem bag, bonecrusher and chaotic longsword.

 

The exp, well... Personally, I don't see myself training it any further until there is a reasonable exp rate. Many people say it gets easier with higher levels, yes, maybe, but I still don't see each dungeon giving say 5,000 exp something to 'yay' about.

 

I do think it needs a lot of improving, but it has potential. Until then, I'm contuining with other skills (like people suggest when you don't like a skill lol). Good luck to whoever gets it to 99 and 120.

[Mecakoto]

 

 

Stereotyping is fun, isn't it? What is your place of origin, ethnicity, and religion so I can have fun, too? ^_^

 

 

 

 

 

I was born in London, England then smuggled to America, I am white, and I do not wish to disclose my religion.

 

Pip pip, tea and crumpets, my lad? Of course, of course! Eminem reference. Lack of religion reference. Further insults. Something unrelated.

 

Something on topic.

 

That'll do it. Don't really feel like trying to hard today. =p

 

I only lived in England for 6 days so your stereotypes don;t really effect me. You can ware the ink off of your keys on your keyboard if you want to still continue to argue. Feel free to pm me.

 

Uh... The "=p" was the tip-off that I wasn't being serious about the matter, so no argument exists to continue. The main point I was trying to make was "stereotyping is bad." But, with your troll tags intact, you most likely don't care, making this frivolous, but still.

[foofoomagoo]

To be honest every skill that comes into the game needs tweaks. I don't think the problem is near as bad as you think. Yes dungeoneering is slow but the xp increases as you reach higher levels getting it to 80 really wont be that big of a pain.

[Wingless]

Hunter was plagued by a lack of worthwhile rewards, and after the new skill frenzy subsided, it was quickly abandoned.

 

Excuse me?!

 

but I still don't see each dungeon giving say 5,000 exp something to 'yay' about.

 

I've seen pics with Dungeon's giving 40-60K EXP at around level 60.

[michel555555]

 

 

The exp, well... Personally, I don't see myself training it any further until there is a reasonable exp rate. Many people say it gets easier with higher levels, yes, maybe, but I still don't see each dungeon giving say 5,000 exp something to 'yay' about.

 

 

 

actually been getting 4-5k fairly often with a 3 man team on small maps and i'm only in the lv 50's. will be interesting to see how much xp you can get a round when you get max prestige.

[Slayer_Jesse]

Being as this is all a matter of opinion, here is mine.

 

I do agree with the idea of the last 3 skills not coming out as they should have. Summoning cost something like 500M first day it came out and there were hardly any good familiars. It is pretty much the complete opposite now and I myself will soon have level 96 in it, 99 *hopefully* by the end of this year.

 

I don't really remember construction much and hunter, well, the only reward I wanted then was the spottier cape, and to this day I haven't trained it past 77 because everyone hogs the red chinchompa spots - and no I'm not going to put flowers down and do everything I can to steal a spot either, it's quite rude and I don't want to end up down that path just for the best training method. I will have to find an alternative training method, maybe up to the level where I can catch those ruby harvest barehandedly? I think I'll do that.

 

As far as Dungeoneering is concerned. When I was reading through the update and came across the "After adventuring (with a group of up to 4 other players)" I thought WTF? Skills shouldn't be team based to gain faster experience. In fact it should be slower, because you're using their skills as well. People should be rewarded for doing things solo, but like I say, that's a matter of opinion.

 

I think the rewards are very good, albeit somewhat half baked, I'm sure with updates there will be more, as I can't see what else right now people will get after they have all chaotic weapons/shields other than level 99, or indeed 120. I can only hope they do what they did with Summoning, whereby giving the skill another update to give more incentives to train it further. For me all I want is the gem bag, bonecrusher and chaotic longsword.

 

The exp, well... Personally, I don't see myself training it any further until there is a reasonable exp rate. Many people say it gets easier with higher levels, yes, maybe, but I still don't see each dungeon giving say 5,000 exp something to 'yay' about.

 

I do think it needs a lot of improving, but it has potential. Until then, I'm contuining with other skills (like people suggest when you don't like a skill lol). Good luck to whoever gets it to 99 and 120.

 

more reasoned discussion, more of this, less arguing please.

[Outsanity]

It's funny that so many of you are still stuck on the "Hey I like Dungeoneering, it's very fun!" concept and you use that to bash the original poster with. Yeah, I like it too, but if any of you were around for the previous few skill releases, what the OP is saying is absolutely true. They did fail in many aspects. He's not saying they ultimately failed or the concepts themselves failed. He's saying they were extremely buggy and major flaws within the mainframe of the skills had slipped through the testing phases without notice.

 

How does Jagex release a skill with "Dungeoneering level" requirements for the rewards when in actuality those same rewards require a much, much higher level to actually obtain. Okay...so I can "use" a Bone Grinder at level 21 dungeoneering, but in actuality I can't use it until level 74, because without spending ANY of my tokens, that is the first level I would have even tokens saved up from to make the purchase. So why have the 21 dungeoneering level requirement? Why not be honest with ourselves and slap the 74+ dungeoneering level requirement on it? It makes no sense to me how they let a major flaw like this slip.

 

Here's something to ponder. What is the reason you like this skill? It's like a minigame but you get exp for it in a skill that you level up. Fair enough. I like skilling and minigames so having one be the other is only a plus. However, what is really innovative about this idea? Nothing. While at first glance it seems very "new" to runescape, all it is really is a combination of a couple of runescape aspects mixed with aspects of other games, which I would be perfectly fine with had Jagex not stroked themselves off and claimed it to be so earth shattering and innovative.

 

My points to back this up:

 

It's Stealing Creation in the very sense that you begin with nothing and have to craft everything from scratch.

It is a dungeon in the sense that there are monsters in rooms that eventually lead up to a boss. (Much like Godwars)

You get to play "instanced dungeons" along with 2-4 other players. This, my friends, is a direct rip from World of Warcraft. Instanced dungeons in WoW allow up to 5 players in the dungeon at once. Raids allow 10-40.

You use every skill to train this skill. So really...what's new about that? I'm using the same old smithing to make the same old bars to make the same old armor to take part in the same old combat. Nothing innovative about that.

 

 

There are several little pieces of silver here and there that shine. Tiny new items and such that help to give it a "newer" feel, but really those things should have just been added via their respective skills.

 

Basically in one sentence what I'm saying is the reason we all like Dungeoneering so damn much is because essentially it's the same game put into a slightly altered format and given a "universal" exp. Does liking it mean the skill is not broken? Hell no. It's highly broken, and I don't really see Jagex making any attempts to fix the major flaws within it. It's been a week. Where are the patch fixes? Where is all of our feedback going to?

 

I don't expect Rome to be built in a day, but I do expect a small patch with even some minor glitches fixed. At least something to show me that Jagex cares about its customers.

[jettrider]

It's mainly for two reasons:

 

• Every skill released nowadays is released in 2-3 parts. This means that people have legitimate complaints about why Dungeoneering can only be trained in one place, because Jagex hasn't deigned to tell us what part 2 entails. How can we accurately form an opinion about something knowing only 30-40% of the content?
  
• Dungeoneering and Farming were released without tutorials and are possibly even more confusing than Summoning. For farming, Jagex hyped up the collection of seeds pre-release, then created a skill that relied on time between patches instead of powering through your seeds in rows. Players were caught with dozens of thousands of seeds that would take years to grow. Hunter was a simple enough skill released in one part, and the KB did an adequate job of describing the basics. Dungeoneering was released with no tutorial and no help system, and the introduction article on the KB was a labyrinth of intricacies.

 

This thing was a nightmare to understand in its first week. Summoning was relatively straightforward, but it got a QUEST to explain to you how to make pouches. This introduced 11 new item names in many categories (weaponry, armor, herbs, hides, cloth, etc), the entire prestige system was confusing, the Smuggler gave no hints of the tactics you could use to defeat bosses, and the KB was no help.

 

People not understanding the content + people not having enough content to judge on + initial huge bugs and inaccuracies due to Jagex "developing in a vacuum" = "fail" for the first month until the fastest experience rates are found and part 2 is released.

[Mike_Ike111]

Jettrider,

 

Stop hyping yourself up. You speak as though you have evidence Jagex is releasing a second "batch" to the minigame. Trust me on this one, Jagex has no plans on a dungeoneering update for quite a while. If so, they would have said something by now.

[canadiansmurf]

It's funny that so many of you are still stuck on the "Hey I like Dungeoneering, it's very fun!" concept and you use that to bash the original poster with. Yeah, I like it too, but if any of you were around for the previous few skill releases, what the OP is saying is absolutely true. They did fail in many aspects. He's not saying they ultimately failed or the concepts themselves failed. He's saying they were extremely buggy and major flaws within the mainframe of the skills had slipped through the testing phases without notice.

 

How does Jagex release a skill with "Dungeoneering level" requirements for the rewards when in actuality those same rewards require a much, much higher level to actually obtain. Okay...so I can "use" a Bone Grinder at level 21 dungeoneering, but in actuality I can't use it until level 74, because without spending ANY of my tokens, that is the first level I would have even tokens saved up from to make the purchase. So why have the 21 dungeoneering level requirement? Why not be honest with ourselves and slap the 74+ dungeoneering level requirement on it? It makes no sense to me how they let a major flaw like this slip.

 

Here's something to ponder. What is the reason you like this skill? It's like a minigame but you get exp for it in a skill that you level up. Fair enough. I like skilling and minigames so having one be the other is only a plus. However, what is really innovative about this idea? Nothing. While at first glance it seems very "new" to runescape, all it is really is a combination of a couple of runescape aspects mixed with aspects of other games, which I would be perfectly fine with had Jagex not stroked themselves off and claimed it to be so earth shattering and innovative.

 

My points to back this up:

 

It's Stealing Creation in the very sense that you begin with nothing and have to craft everything from scratch.

It is a dungeon in the sense that there are monsters in rooms that eventually lead up to a boss. (Much like Godwars)

You get to play "instanced dungeons" along with 2-4 other players. This, my friends, is a direct rip from World of Warcraft. Instanced dungeons in WoW allow up to 5 players in the dungeon at once. Raids allow 10-40.

You use every skill to train this skill. So really...what's new about that? I'm using the same old smithing to make the same old bars to make the same old armor to take part in the same old combat. Nothing innovative about that.

 

 

There are several little pieces of silver here and there that shine. Tiny new items and such that help to give it a "newer" feel, but really those things should have just been added via their respective skills.

 

Basically in one sentence what I'm saying is the reason we all like Dungeoneering so damn much is because essentially it's the same game put into a slightly altered format and given a "universal" exp. Does liking it mean the skill is not broken? Hell no. It's highly broken, and I don't really see Jagex making any attempts to fix the major flaws within it. It's been a week. Where are the patch fixes? Where is all of our feedback going to?

 

I don't expect Rome to be built in a day, but I do expect a small patch with even some minor glitches fixed. At least something to show me that Jagex cares about its customers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you.

 

It is a lot of recycled content.

 

There are several little pieces of silver here and there that shine.

 

I like the gatestone teleport. Why not make it a magic spell that we can set for anywhere in the RS map.

I like the combined useful spell book why not have that unlock at level 99 magic.

 

I like the ring. That type of ring would be useful for clan type events or just when people team a monster as well.

 

+1 to the unlimited trade within the dungeon

+1 to teaming with strangers who are actually reliable and thoughtful i've met some more people by doing this rs tends to be so unsociable this forces interaction

plus now if there is someone i dont' like i just bail early on in the dungeon

 

The graphics for the armour in the dungeons are nicely detailed and make the aboveground armour look worse in comparison.

 

 

 

What actually would have been fun and innovative would have been to make all mini-games tie into a single minigames skill

Why not? If I want to play castle wars I should be getting experience in the minigame skill.

All tokens and drops like tokul could have been tied into this skill as a universal currency.

 

All existing rewards and clothing for various minigames such as pest control, BA, soul wars and all others could have been rewards linked to collecting the universal token.

 

That would be more fun then builiding a whole skill around what is essentially ONE miningame.

[Central_Keeper]

Wait, it's too slow? I'm glad that they released a skill that doesn't have hundreds of people at 99 within the first weeks, like hunter.

 

I don't get why people don't like it because it's a skill. They would call it great content if it was called a minigame apparently, no logic there.

 

Yeah, I do agree that for the past few skills released, a lot of people get 99s in them fairly fast. Maybe because we are so attune to high xp at higher lvl that when we lvl at a slower rate it seems forever?

 

It could be a good challenge, and I also agree with the author of this topic too, fun game, but slow xp. The xp is slow so that's something we can't change, but manage to enjoy it as we go along instead of blaze through it like the other skills.

 

Perhaps Jagex is trying to rectify those cash burning, hour grinding repetitiveness of other skills. Well, technically you can still grind it, but just with more variations.

 

I really like to do it with friends, and its kind of cool to lvl it along with your friends and talk about your result afterward. The only down side is people tend to lag out a lot......

 

I am sure its not the end of the skill production and Jagex will introduce more skill later on. I do admit introduce a skill that magnitude is really hard since you have a lot of balance work going on. It's a con and a pros to keep it contained in one area, and it would be wonderful if they can make it somewhat useful in the RS world as a whole (besides the reward), but you never know since Jagex are very tight lipped about those kind of stuff.

[Zepheras]

Jettrider,

 

Stop hyping yourself up. You speak as though you have evidence Jagex is releasing a second "batch" to the minigame. Trust me on this one, Jagex has no plans on a dungeoneering update for quite a while. If so, they would have said something by now.

 

 

 

"Why is there a new magic prayer that boosts 20% accuracy, but no Ranged prayer?"

 

As above, more rewards are coming in the future.

 

This first update bought you the magic prayer, the second batch of rewards will bring you the ranged equivalent.

[Logdotzip]

Jettrider,

 

Stop hyping yourself up. You speak as though you have evidence Jagex is releasing a second "batch" to the minigame. Trust me on this one, Jagex has no plans on a dungeoneering update for quite a while. If so, they would have said something by now.

 

Take a stroll through the RuneScape forums' stickied threads before you run your mouth on things you have no clue about.

 

 

OT:

 

Same as everyone else, they release things incomplete so they know what needs to be tweaked yada yada

[Slayer_Jesse]

Glad to see this is finally getting on topic. Also, the price reductions released today make it so that you can actually buy the items at their level requirements. However, this still doesn't change that it should have been like this from the start.