C rapier vs C longsword

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Quick question; how many tokens does it take to recharge one of the weapons?

20k + 200k cash for 100% recharge

 

And solely tokens?

it's only that or all cash, no sole tokens

[stonewall337]

Seeing as there is no slayer monster with 0 def, that 3% is just a random number which means nothing.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Seeing as there is no slayer monster with 0 def, that 3% is just a random number which means nothing.

living rocks?

[xpx]

Seeing as there is no slayer monster with 0 def, that 3% is just a random number which means nothing.

There are loads of monsters(and slayer ones) with efficiently no defence, meaning that your attack bonuses and levels are overwhelmingly higher than their defence ones causing you to hit at near unmissable levels(i assume there is a cap as we can't one hit level 3 monsters every time). What was tried to say was that speed actually makes alot more differance against moderate foes than attack bonuses do. A whip can be as good as or better than any slower weapon under certain circumstances.

[stonewall337]

Blocked. And they don't have 0 def. Maybe 1 (lol)

My point wasn't that monsters had high defense, but that basing a percentage improvement on a hypothetical situation is not good logic. Also is that 3% a small enough number to be within the margin of error.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Blocked. And they don't have 0 def. Maybe 1 (lol)

My point wasn't that monsters had high defense, but that basing a percentage improvement on a hypothetical situation is not good logic. Also is that 3% a small enough number to be within the margin of error.

3% is enough to say that the whip and the CLS are essentially the same thing for slayer

this and considering the CLS is slower so it doesn't benefit as much from the ferocious ring, and results in more knock-out loss.

i mean i think the CLS will be essentially the same as a whip on most tasks, and better on a few.

 

is it really worth dishing out money for a CLS repairs when a whip is free?

[anonymouse_]

Blocked. And they don't have 0 def. Maybe 1 (lol)

My point wasn't that monsters had high defense, but that basing a percentage improvement on a hypothetical situation is not good logic. Also is that 3% a small enough number to be within the margin of error.

3% is enough to say that the whip and the CLS are essentially the same thing for slayer

this and considering the CLS is slower so it doesn't benefit as much from the ferocious ring, and results in more knock-out loss.

i mean i think the CLS will be essentially the same as a whip on most tasks, and better on a few.

 

is it really worth dishing out money for a CLS repairs when a whip is free?

This is why rapier > cls. And spending an extra 50-100k/hr is definitely worth it.

[Sir_Squab]

Nomad is unbelievably easy with rapier (was he ever hard...?). Just killed him on my first try with a few brews and a uni (no bob).

 

yes, and it had nothing to do with the fact that you have soul split [/end sarcasm]

 

Or overloads.

 

Personally I'd probably want the longsword. I'd probably stick to my whip most of the time because I don't need to worry about having 2m after fighting stuff for a while to recharge it.... However, I would use the longsword on bosses, where, imo, the improved accuracy would come in handy. This coming from someone who DOESN'T have maxed melee or extremes or overloads.

 

That being said, once your stats are higher enough, you care less about accuracy and more about speed. If accuracy isn't a concern, then most if not all high damage/slow speed don't hit high enough to make up for the slow speed. (I.E. if the weapon hits twice as slowly it hits twice as high.)

 

I guess with extremes and maxed melee, the rapier would probably be more useful due to speed.

[HexiledRazz]

To be honest, chaotic weapons are quite a indulgence for slayer. Considering how much you have to pay every 10 hours.

 

If i had the level and tokens, i would get the longsword. As i would only use it for PvP minigames and boss hunting. Where the longsword is more useful.

(This also, is coming from someone without maxed melees, turmoil, or overloads)

[Grimy_Bunyip]

To be honest, chaotic weapons are quite a indulgence for slayer. Considering how much you have to pay every 10 hours.

 

If i had the level and tokens, i would get the longsword. As i would only use it for PvP minigames and boss hunting. Where the longsword is more useful.

(This also, is coming from someone without maxed melees, turmoil, or overloads)

every 20-25 hours, the kb is wrong :)

[xSxqPowerx]

I am really torn currently.

Got a while to make my decision... but I was initially only considering long, but now I am not sure. I wanted long because it seems like it would be best for bosses, but there now seems to be evidence that would suggest that rapier might possibly just as good for bosses (and undeniably better for slayer).

[totalpwnage]

How would your stab focused set up be that much different than any other set up? Also, what do you mean by Rapier Vesta combo? Basically, you are saying rapier is nice because you can use a dds with it easier, because your whole outfit will be stab based, right?

Yep. Ardy Cape takes about 90 seconds to get back (have to leave BH, tele yanille, get cape, tele edge, hop back) which makes it even easier.

Also with the vesta, I usually pk on Accurate (first style) for the +3 attack to combo more. Which means if I switch to Vesta's Spear I'll be on stab. The Vesta's Spear is almost as powerful as the CLS in terms of strength, but it is less accurate -- however, it has every attack style.

The only thing we really need is an easily accessable helmet to use for stab attack. The only helmet there is is the Fighter Helm (aka Eyeball helm), but slash has warrior helmets and crush has the dwarven helm. I supposed this is replaced by the fact that those using stab can use the Ardy Cape, and the only slash/crush increasing cape is a fire cape (+1).

 

Chaotic Maul does have that beastly crush bonus, but for some reason I've seen it be inaccurate. However, I get the feeling that, once again, people that buy it are looking to max and instead of throwing it on accurate, are using strength style. Maul does have a lot of potential though. I saw a vid of someone getting killed with a 643 late switched maul for Arcane/Max mage, claws, torso/tass, whip, etc. (Kristo aka Monster59 gets Binu22'd on youtube)

 

Oh, and some more reasons I want to buy the rapier is because I'd like to pk with rapier+arcane stream in hybrid... but guess what? Fr0 Xd has been ddosing World 65/18 all week. Yes, it is possible, and it has been done (see Cbird Pk Vid 1 "Droppin The World" on youtube). I'd rather not risk arcane stream to getting killed by a world ddos. He could do the same to other worlds if he wanted to as well, and I've had random lag spikes all week, so I'd rather not go to non-protect. Which means I'll probably be reduced to training slayer (which I don't mind at all, tbh - I've been wanting to train it). WIth the rapier definitely being the best weapon for slayer (and me and my friend will be testing it at GWD as well), I'd rather buy a rapier.

 

To xSxqPowerx - Long is definitely going to be better for bosses in bigger teams. In smaller teams (duo/trio) or solo, Rapier has a chance to surpass the longsword. Also, I LOVE dk's. Rapier attacks at the same speed that supreme does, meaning if you time your rapier correctly, you can flick soul split over and over. I've also got the flicking pattern for sara down when healing on minions with whip (flick 4x, don't flick, repeat). Same with a lot of other bosses. With this, it will be a lot easier for me to adapt to using a rapier for solo purposes.

 

I'd like to get all 3 because they all have their uses, but dungeoneering is starting to get REALLY boring. I might just wait for floors 36-60 to come out. The shields have their uses, too. It's a tough decision - I just hope Jagex adds an option to get more tokens by sacrificing the experience you get in a dungeon. Grinding for days at a time is just boring as hell - 2 million experience takes like 6 resets of 1-35 assuming you small rush 1-29 and large 30-35. Not even getting Mobilizing Armies is that bad - It takes 25 hours to get to the rings at first, but once you get the ability to imbue rings, it takes like, at most, 1 hour to get all the tokens back to imbue a new ring if you lose it. It took me about 35 minutes to get a dragonstone ring (i) back. Dungeoneering, you're going through those 25+ hours over and over again. Maybe less than that, but its still a lot of time.

 

Also to whoever says chaotic weapons are expensive to use in slayer, who can't afford to waste 200k/hr? I can make 300k on a farm run and I don't even have My Arm's Big Adventure done. Also, as mentioned earlier, it's not really 10 hours. The percentage tends to go down moreso at bosses than it does doing something like slayer. I think xr3d3mpt1onx or something confirms it on youtube, don't remember the video exactly.

[bedman]

Thanks for the interesting post.

 

Just saw that vid on youtube you mentioned (it's on screenshot thread), and it seems quite unavoidable to die this way, when you fight someone with chaotic + granite maul. I mean, the guy just has to keep his "wield granite maul" button ready, and hit spec as soon as his maul hits a 600+ hit. Downside is of course that maul has little uses elsewhere.

 

I also agree on letting us get tokens back quicker without xp or whatever. Actually, I would prefer an option to rebuy your weapon for around 10-20M gp, kind of like how quest reward items (barrelchest anchor) work right now. Would be another small moneysink too.

[totalpwnage]

Thanks for the interesting post.

 

Just saw that vid on youtube you mentioned (it's on screenshot thread), and it seems quite unavoidable to die this way, when you fight someone with chaotic + granite maul. I mean, the guy just has to keep his "wield granite maul" button ready, and hit spec as soon as his maul hits a 600+ hit. Downside is of course that maul has little uses elsewhere.

 

I also agree on letting us get tokens back quicker without xp or whatever. Actually, I would prefer an option to rebuy your weapon for around 10-20M gp, kind of like how quest reward items (barrelchest anchor) work right now. Would be another small moneysink too.

Yep, the maul doesn't have a lot of uses elsewhere (could be used in GWD actually, but AGS would probably do better due to having a spec). The maul seems more like a secondary weapon for PvP though (think of it like a 2h ko weapon) or even a third weapon because it doesn't have a spec. Though, I would like to see someone doing dscim, dds, and cmaul pking.

 

If we would have to pay 10-20m to get the weapon back, I really hope they make the items alch for more. Untradables tend to have a standard of alching for about 3/5 of the price you buy it for. All I know is that chaotic weapons have an alch value of like 132k, which would put the value you buy it for at like 220k coins. 200k tokens = 220k coins lolwut? At least make it alch for like 400k >.> 132k doesn't even protect over barrows.

I HOPE that this means Jagex is implementing a fast tokens method of getting tokens though. I mean, they even put Onyx Ring (i) at a higher alch value than Divine Spirit Shield, and although they are really hard to get now because of tokkul update... before that, it took 25 hours for the first ring, but 1 hour for each one after. The regular onyx ring alchs for about 1/10th of the Divine Spirit Shield's alch value. None of the other imbued rings seem to have this jump - maybe it's an error where Jagex accidently added a 0 to the onyx ring (i)'s alch value, idk. It's been pointed out many times though that it protects over divine.

[Dragonlordjl]

Which weapon do you think would be better for solo/duo Tormented Demons, Total?

[totalpwnage]

Which weapon do you think would be better for solo/duo Tormented Demons, Total?

Depends how fast you can switch. I'd take preference to the rapier because I've gotten really fast with turmoil/leech range switching with weapons at TD's. Also, with the XP gains at the top right, it's easier to know when to switch.

However, for most people, longsword would probably be better. Reason I choose that over the maul is that you can just equip a rune defender the whole time. A lot of people have no idea how much a rune defender saves you time when hitting the shield down with darklight - another reason why I've used whip for a long time. Even if you use a godsword at TD's, bringing a rune defender switch with your darklight is definitely helpful.

 

That's definitely debatable though, cause I can think of pretty equal pros and cons for each. Most people should go for the longsword, but if you're good with FKeys and switching then rapier might be just as good if not better. Duoing, I'd almost definitely go for a longsword. And yeah, you could use maul, but again I'd rather save the space for the defender, and the speed gets a little too slow for my liking there. That's just my personal opinion though.

[bedman]

Yeah, I think at certain point, TD's just about what suits you best to prayer/weapon switch.

 

If you are using steel titan and claws though, I would go for a slower weapon. You'll already have your hands full enough.

[bedman]

I know I'm double posting, but this topic was on second page.

 

I was just wondering what would be your percentage increase in melee/slayer xp/h while doing slayer with a rapier/CLS vs. a whip. Experimental data would be best, but I could do with theoretical values. I'm quiet sure this has been calculated already somewhere, but can't remember where.

[ghjkl]

Tding with steel titan is just about as hard as tding with void. Only thing you have to do is learn new lures and click the summ icon every time it prays melee.

[totalpwnage]

Went against what I was saying, got a maul. This thing is absolutely insane.

 

I'd like to make one correction. Alch value is NOT 132k. It's 79.2k, meaning pvp equipment (non-corrupt) protects over, and claws do too I believe. Barrows does (I found out and investigated once I saw that karil's crossbow protected over the maul)

I'd assume that this alch value applies to all 3 chaotic weapons.

I'm going to take a guess that the alch value of 132k was based on the "Items Kept on Death" interface saying the maul was worth 132k. However, for untradables (that aren't linked to something - so something like DSpear (kp) doesn't apply here) the actual value is 3/5 of what is shown on the Items Kept on Death interface. You can see this with many things such as RFD Gloves (bgloves, 100k, alch for 60k... skill capes, 99k, alch for 59.4k, etc... even applies to onyx ring which for some reason is not linked - shows as 2,417,562 and alchs for about 1.45m)

 

One thing that you need to do if you're using a maul is put it on attack style. Trust me, it can improve how often you hit by like 10-20%.

My friend ended up getting the maul too. We'll be testing these at GW soon. But we need people with rapier's and longsword's to compare it to... especially with similar stats (don't have extremes >.>)

 

I will be getting rapier next, then the longsword. One of the problems with the longsword is that EVERYONE is getting it. So many people in edgeville have the longsword in w65 -.- It's really not that great... I've seen people doing longsword + dds pking and it doesn't seem much different than ags pking. Besides, I've used vls before, and the bonuses on cls is almost the same (barely better) than the vls. How often I killed someone with a normal hit? Not too often.

 

Maul actually has some amazing combo capabilities. I hit probably 70-80% of the time on rune without a dwarven helm (using glory, bgloves, fcape, dstone ring (i) for att bonuses). On welfare? Let's just say someone in dhide with an afro+msb got on me and I hit almost 95% of the time, even hitting a 616 in that mix, and KO'ing him with a 273 through melee deflect. The problem is that, as I said earlier, most people have been using strength style and not hitting.

And btw, my maul is STILL at 100% charge.

 

 

We're definitely gonna need some comparisons eventually though. Similiar gears/styles/pots (I don't have extremes :S) at different bosses would be interesting, though we'll have to also look into duos and solos as well. Not gonna be easy to say.

 

If there's one thing thats obvious though, at least to me, rapier is definitely better for slayer than the other 3.

[Squisher_33]

coulda had 200k by now but im stopping at about 80k waiting till i see batch 2 rewarsd, and till they decide whats best that way when i spend ill know i picked right

[yuriqiu]

I can confirm CLS is 110k Alch value. Never checked chaotic kite. If you want to know I can get back to you on that, also not spending my 300k tokens left because I want to see if Batch 2 has anything good (Chaotic spear <33 Corp.... I dare to dream)

[Squisher_33]

oh and theuberelite, they said in a Q&A theyre considering making it cheaper to buy a lost chaotic item back

 

as in you pay 200k tokens, get maul, pk, loose it, come back and dung for a bit, then re-buy the maul for 20k tokens instead of having to waste 50 horus getting it again, now its 5 hours similar to looisng void or torso or firecape, although they all vary in horus 5h is decent time to get a good item back

[Dragonlordjl]

Went against what I was saying, got a maul. This thing is absolutely insane.

 

I'd like to make one correction. Alch value is NOT 132k. It's 79.2k, meaning pvp equipment (non-corrupt) protects over, and claws do too I believe. Barrows does (I found out and investigated once I saw that karil's crossbow protected over the maul)

I'd assume that this alch value applies to all 3 chaotic weapons.

I'm going to take a guess that the alch value of 132k was based on the "Items Kept on Death" interface saying the maul was worth 132k. However, for untradables (that aren't linked to something - so something like DSpear (kp) doesn't apply here) the actual value is 3/5 of what is shown on the Items Kept on Death interface. You can see this with many things such as RFD Gloves (bgloves, 100k, alch for 60k... skill capes, 99k, alch for 59.4k, etc... even applies to onyx ring which for some reason is not linked - shows as 2,417,562 and alchs for about 1.45m)

 

One thing that you need to do if you're using a maul is put it on attack style. Trust me, it can improve how often you hit by like 10-20%.

My friend ended up getting the maul too. We'll be testing these at GW soon. But we need people with rapier's and longsword's to compare it to... especially with similar stats (don't have extremes >.>)

 

I will be getting rapier next, then the longsword. One of the problems with the longsword is that EVERYONE is getting it. So many people in edgeville have the longsword in w65 -.- It's really not that great... I've seen people doing longsword + dds pking and it doesn't seem much different than ags pking. Besides, I've used vls before, and the bonuses on cls is almost the same (barely better) than the vls. How often I killed someone with a normal hit? Not too often.

 

Maul actually has some amazing combo capabilities. I hit probably 70-80% of the time on rune without a dwarven helm (using glory, bgloves, fcape, dstone ring (i) for att bonuses). On welfare? Let's just say someone in dhide with an afro+msb got on me and I hit almost 95% of the time, even hitting a 616 in that mix, and KO'ing him with a 273 through melee deflect. The problem is that, as I said earlier, most people have been using strength style and not hitting.

And btw, my maul is STILL at 100% charge.

 

 

We're definitely gonna need some comparisons eventually though. Similiar gears/styles/pots (I don't have extremes :S) at different bosses would be interesting, though we'll have to also look into duos and solos as well. Not gonna be easy to say.

 

If there's one thing thats obvious though, at least to me, rapier is definitely better for slayer than the other 3.

 

The reason the maul is so dominant with PKing is because the average guy in rune has what... 250 defense? With your equipment, you have around 180-190 attack, so it's basically the equivalent of constantly fighting someone in d-hides. And you do fight someone in d hides, your attack bonus is way more than their defense bonus.

 

But you really need to hurry up and test it at bosses, mainly bandos/sara and TDs. I am 100k xp from being able to buy a chaotic weapon and am still undecided as to which I should get.

[totalpwnage]

The reason the maul is so dominant with PKing is because the average guy in rune has what... 250 defense? With your equipment, you have around 180-190 attack, so it's basically the equivalent of constantly fighting someone in d-hides. And you do fight someone in d hides, your attack bonus is way more than their defense bonus.

 

But you really need to hurry up and test it at bosses, mainly bandos/sara and TDs. I am 100k xp from being able to buy a chaotic weapon and am still undecided as to which I should get.

Yep. Well my friends that wanted to go ended up not going -.- so we might have to wait a bit.

From when I tried at td's (though that was only a few kills before I had to go) its too slow for my liking, would rather ls or rapier. then again I was doing it on a laptop which is a lot harder and slower too so that might just be why.