Rune crossbow, really the best?

[bedman]

In the days before the crossbow update, ranging was fairly simple. First of all, there was the magic shortbow as main option to training ranged. Most people used an assortment of arrows, ranging from just bronze up to rune. Rune itself was mostly a tool for pkers, while training was mostly done with bronze-addy arrows, depending on the wealth of the player. Next, there was the crystal bow. This powerful bow shoots slightly slower, but hits higher, and doesn't use arrows. Richer players trained with this, since the recharge costs are about 100k for an hour of shooting.

 

Then came the crossbow update, and rangers saw their max hit increasing from around 25 to 40 (rough estimations). Broad bolts were introduced not that much later (I think) and they became a popular training ammo, since they were fairly cheap (50-60 gp). Ever since, it seems that rune crossbow + broad arrows is the main and superior way of ranging.

 

However, with the introduction of Kuradal's dungeon (favouring faster weapons), and the increase in broad bolts price, I wanted to see whether broad bolts were really worth their number 1 position. I decided to do some tests on Gargoyles in Kuradals dungeon. I compared the following setups:

 

 

All tests were done while using overload potions and the eagle eye prayer. These were the results (10-20 min of ranging with each). 10-20 minutes is pretty short, so the results should be taken with a grain of salt. However, the differences are big enough IMO (both in raw data and perception while ranging) to make some conclusions.

 

Broad bolts:

86.9k ranging xp/h

... bolts used/h

... cost/h

Remark: forgot to track how much bolts I used. Cost is probably around 40-80k/h

 

Cyrstal bow (10)

99.2k ranging xp/h

6 charges/h

108k gp/h

Remark: Used crystal bow (1) for around 3 minutes (crystal bow trick). With more timing, this could be less than 1 min, making the rate quite a bit higher (the first 5 min on my (10) bow were going at a rate of 112k xp/h).

 

Runite Darts

112.2k ranging xp/h

550 darts/h

330k gp/h

Remark: Darts are merched. When they are at their normal price of 150-200, cost/h is roughly 82.5-110k/h

 

Magic Shortbow

95.2k xp/h

400 arrows/h

160k/h

Remark: My gargoyle task ran out, so I conducted this test on Dark Beasts. Also, a few arrows were not picked up, so cost could be slightly lower.

 

 

So, as you can see, the results are pretty surprising. Broad bolts come out as worst option xp/wise, allthough they probably are the cheapest (if someone knows usage/h, I would be grateful). The fastest xp/h is not so surprising, if we think about the effect of kuradal's ring: Darts. The +40 on every hit favours fast htiting ammo, like darts. One thing I have to add with darts though, is that ranging is far less relaxing. With a crystal bow you can position yourself in a corner and just shoot around the room, while darts made you really come out of your spot and chase the gargoyles. Also, picking up drops and moving in between hits is farily hard, if not impossible. Lastly, quite a few darts stay on the floor, despite ava's accumulator. Another advantage of the crystal bow option is the possibilty to wear a soul wars cape for its massive prayer bonus (+ of course no issues of picking up arrows). The magic shortbow was inferior to the crystal bow in every aspect (xp, cost, prayer bonus).

 

For me, it seems that crystal bow is the best option, if you take everything into account (cost, user friendlyness, xp). Somehow, I had this idea in my head that rune crossbow + broads is more accurate, but if we look at the stats, we can see that even there the crystal bow + SW cape is only slightly worse. In terms of max hit, I managed to hit up to 404 with crystal bow, while over 480 with broad bolts. A difference, but really not that big.

 

I'm pretty interested to see how these results change outside Kuradals dungeon. I can see myself using a crystal bow over rune c'bow at several activities now. It seem pretty damn handy for TDs for instance . Heck, it might even own at armadyl GWD, allthough the lack of shield is a big disadvantage...

 

So yeah, what do you guys think about this? Was I just unlucky while testing broad bolts? Are these tests irrelevant because the ring gives too much advantage to faster weapons? Do you still us your crystal bow often? Do you know any other overrated weapons/spells/... ?

[Lugia_Lvl138]

Well, I'd like to see the results at places like TDs since I already have 99 Slayer. Also keep in mind, I use Diamond Bolts E at TDs instead of Broads. Interesting results nonetheless, but I think it's very skewed because of the +40 bonus given by the ring. As for Arma GWD, you're probably right, the loss of my Divine would not be worth it unless in a team or an FFA.

[magzar]

it might help if you input any info for the broad bolt option

[HexiledRazz]

I didn't realize that there were still people that didn't know that darts were the best for Kuradals(EXP/hr, that is).

 

But yeah, it's just because if the ring. There's a reason why people don't use cry bows at arma. Rune ke'bow is superior due to the special ability that bolts have. Plus the usage of a shield.

[Obtaurian]

When ranged slaying, I often opt for my crystal bow and SW cape. I use darts on greater demons. Besides the testing and such, I actually really like the crystal bow as a weapon. It's just fun to use IMO.

[TheAncient]

I would hesitate to draw any major conclusions from your test.

 

Why?

 

You didn't test diamond(e)'s

You didn't have appropriate controls for your experiment (i.e. you had multiple variables per trial)

You used ferocious ring which is only applicable to slayer

 

With that said, I think it's still valuable to look into it further. Qeltar did a similar study with broad bolts and found that they're superior to most other options.

 

Other things you could test for:

-- Sighted Mage Longbow vs. other options against high def monsters

-- Karil's XBow

[bedman]

I didn't realize that there were still people that didn't know that darts were the best for Kuradals(EXP/hr, that is).

 

But yeah, it's just because if the ring. There's a reason why people don't use cry bows at arma. Rune ke'bow is superior due to the special ability that bolts have. Plus the usage of a shield.

Wasn't surprised by the darts. More by crystal bow being this good. (and ranging in general, damn, over 100k xp/h is pretty damn fast).

[TheAncient]

Also, aren't crystal bows really annoying to use because of the degrading property?

[time2quit]

Also, aren't crystal bows really annoying to use because of the degrading property?

The trick is very effective esp when training if you can flip 3/4 bows or seeds around. 200 or so shots then switch for 50 (degrades 250 shots tied to the player), see the degrade and back again, obviously bad for dk's or boss hunting in general but for training esp slayer isnt to bad.

[bedman]

I would hesitate to draw any major conclusions from your test.

 

Why?

 

You didn't test diamond(e)'s

You didn't have appropriate controls for your experiment (i.e. you had multiple variables per trial)

You used ferocious ring which is only applicable to slayer

 

With that said, I think it's still valuable to look into it further. Qeltar did a similar study with broad bolts and found that they're superior to most other options.

 

Other things you could test for:

-- Sighted Mage Longbow vs. other options against high def monsters

-- Karil's XBow

 

You are right that more tests should be done, and also outside kuradal's dungeon. Diamond (e)'s are nice, but I was more testing for every day training ammo, not the boss hunting ammo, even though even there crystal bow might be quite good. That's why karil's crossbow isn't an option either (would cost too much) for normal training. I'm also pretty sure that sighted longbow is gonna be trash. Crystal bow and broad bolts were already insanely accurate. Even darts were very accurate actually. But who knows, on mith drags or something perhaps...

 

crystal bow trick: It degraded about every 10 min, so it's easy to time, especially if you use overloads.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Grimy's Ranged DPS Calculator

 

as you can see, a crystal bow(8) or less is inferior to a rune crossbow with broad bolts in terms of DPS on a target with 0 defence.

Considering a rune crossbow has better accuracy than a crystal bow(8), i'd say that would make a rune crossbow with broad bolts better than a crystal bow in every way.

 

so either my equation for calculating ranged max hits is incorrect, or your data is wrong.

*slaps thighs* bring it :D

[Obtaurian]

Grimy's Ranged DPS Calculator

 

as you can see, a crystal bow(8) or less is inferior to a rune crossbow with broad bolts in terms of DPS on a target with 0 defence.

Considering a rune crossbow has better accuracy than a crystal bow(8), i'd say that would make a rune crossbow with broad bolts better than a crystal bow in every way.

 

so either my equation for calculating ranged max hits is incorrect, or your data is wrong.

*slaps thighs* bring it :D

 

That's why you use the crystal bow trick. :wink:

[Dire_Wolf]

When ranged slaying, I often opt for my crystal bow and SW cape. I use darts on greater demons. Besides the testing and such, I actually really like the crystal bow as a weapon. It's just fun to use IMO.

Hands up brother! Magic shortbow also looks appealing. :thumbsup: I'm no archer, but to those who are archers, remember...powerful Archers wield bows not crossbows :smile:

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Grimy's Ranged DPS Calculator

 

as you can see, a crystal bow(8) or less is inferior to a rune crossbow with broad bolts in terms of DPS on a target with 0 defence.

Considering a rune crossbow has better accuracy than a crystal bow(8), i'd say that would make a rune crossbow with broad bolts better than a crystal bow in every way.

 

so either my equation for calculating ranged max hits is incorrect, or your data is wrong.

*slaps thighs* bring it :D

 

That's why you use the crystal bow trick. :wink:

I'd rather spend the extra money to use runite bolts tbh :P

[Dire_Wolf]

That's why you use the crystal bow trick. :wink:

What trick?

[Obtaurian]

That's why you use the crystal bow trick. :wink:

What trick?

 

You need two bows to do it. You use your 10/10 bow for ten minutes (or about 200-225 shots), then switch to your degrading bow for the last few shots. That way you can keep using a 10/10 bow indefinitely.

[Dire_Wolf]

That's why you use the crystal bow trick. :wink:

What trick?

 

You need two bows to do it. You use your 10/10 bow for ten minutes (or about 200-225 shots), then switch to your degrading bow for the last few shots. That way you can keep using a 10/10 bow indefinitely.

As great as that sounds, but that's bug abuse? Also i got a funny story. I looked at G.E and Crystal bow was over 700K (New), and i went "WOW IMA EARN LOADS!!!" (Was trying to merch lol). So i bought tiny crystals, went and recharged and tried to put in G.E ----not tradeable lol. Lesson: Recharged Crystal bows aren't tradeable.

 

So i got x4 Crystal bow full and 5/10 x2. I like Crystal bow alot and had plan to get the price lowered, so was not a loose.

[Obtaurian]

It's not bug abuse. The degrading is attached to the player, not the bow, so it's just another example of emergent gameplay. It's a pretty well known trick.

[Zaaps1]

Broad Bolts came out years after the Crossbow update.

 

And also, with the new Longbow Sight, the Magic Longbow outclasses the Crystal Longbow in everything except power.

[Bladewing]

First criticism is small sample size, and no control for human error.

 

Crossbow is better for high defence monsters than darts/knives.

Crystal bow is more expensive than broad bolts.

 

Darts are better on greater demons, blue dragons, and gargoyles, but crossbow is better for all the others (not sure on dark beasts since I don't do em anymore.)

[muggiwhplar]

I did an experiment like this back when GWD was first released, cuz I wanted to see the quickest way to kill aviansies.

 

Rune knives are the quickest XP in any normal range-training situation (meaning, the target monster has decently low range def). Dragon darts and rune darts were a close 2nd and 3rd.

 

Chins were still the most efficient way to train ranged though

[Squisher_33]

the msb surprised me considering the range def of dark beasts

 

prob coulda told you knives/drats are best on low def slay monster, in fact the +40 dmg realy realy affects them because in the same time darts get about +100 dmg per rune cbows +40 dmg cuz of hit speed, +40 for insanely fast is way more usefull than occasional +40s

 

oh and sseli, seriously who slays with diamond bolts, not a very valid test, and if it was you could then just add in drag darts and rune knives since they too are slightly expensive but even better than what he teseted

[benben9992000]

dark beasts have much higher defence, so I guess you can test again on gargs. By the look of it, MSB should be better than cry bow

[kazumaishimaru]

This "trick" is interesting.

(now that I look on the wiki of the bow, I see what you mean)

 

It definitely makes the bow more appealing without that awful flaw of the degrading stats. =/

(I know it was good so many years ago, but it's just outdated now)

[Squisher_33]

i honesly think there shuold maybe be a final elf quest to aces that crystal city and all, but its reward should make cry bow degrade all at once, but stay at full for all 2500 shots

 

i also think it should be 100 range str too, you may say this would overpower it, but think about it

 

rune cbow takes 61 range, nothing else

 

crystal bow takes 70 range and tons of quests, maybe the 100 range str bow could take 75-80 range idk

 

aldo as the bow degrades the range str stays at 70 right?