Cochlear Implants

[Dizzle229]

Hey, guys. I wrote this essay as an ASL final, and as I was writing it I thought it might be a good debate for TIF. Just wanted to hear your take on the issue, and maybe some alternative solutions.

 

 

Ever since the invention of the cochlear implant, an intense debate has raged over whether or not deaf children should be implanted with the device. There are some pretty strong arguments coming from both sides of this conflict.

 

Many deaf people feel that deafness is a natural way of life, not something that needs to be fixed. They feel that the device can undermine deaf culture. They also bring up the issue of cost. A cochlear implant can go for around $50,000, and as of now, most insurance companies will refuse to cover it, believing that they aren't worth the cost. On top of all of this, the implant does have a small chance of causing damage if an very young infant is implanted, and many feel that a child should wait until they are old enough to fully understand the decision they're making.

 

However, there are reasons why some might want to go for the implant, even from an early age. The opportunities for someone who is hearing, or at least, partially hearing, are just far greater than those of someone who can only communicate using ASL. Think about it. If I made all my posts in the form of YouTube videos of me signing, most, if not all of you, wouldn't even bother. There's also the argument that if a child receives the implant too late in life, it could seriously harm their ability to interpret sound and learn English.

 

Personally, I tend to learn more toward the medical perspective. A person who gets the implant at a young age will be able to learn English and interact with classmates the way any hearing person would. They would at any time be able to decide if they want to hear or not, they would still be deaf when they want to be. The only real difference is a greater spectrum of opportunity. This is a choice that someone who wants to make the decision later on in life may not even have.

[dusky]

I really dont imagine many deaf adults would want this, who have lived their who lives as deaf, as I think it would be kind of like offering a normal person a third arm. You also meantioned cost is an issue. 50k for a life time of hearing? That's really a bargain price if you think about it. And i think no good parent would hesitate in making that investment.

[Lateralus]

'Deaf culture' seems like an odd notion to me. I'm sure it exists, but surely it's as a way of coping with a piece of rotten luck.

 

In any case, it's a personal choice and a non-essential procedure should never be forced on anyone.

[Alg]

In any case, it's a personal choice and a non-essential procedure should never be forced on anyone.

I'd agree in adult cases, and for children who can't choose it should be up to the parents.

It's also the kind of thing that shouldn't be inaccessible for anyone. Coming out with cheaper, safer(?) versions would be ideal.

[RpgGamer]

Undermining deaf culture?

 

wtf?

 

If they don't want to hear...they don't need the surgery. i think most of them would appreciate the 5th sense though.

[Giordano]

There's really a debate about this? Who wouldn't want to hear? Let me rephrase that: who would give up hearing if he/she experienced it at least once?

[Myweponsg00d]

Oh no...ugh. This thread is going to be filled with people who have absolutely no idea what ASL is, what deaf people are like, what it is like to be deaf, or what the cochlear implant does.

 

First of all, let me set one thing straight for all who are going to read this thread: the cochlear implant does NOT let you hear! The cochlear sends signals to the brain that you can learn to interpret. You CAN NOT HEAR LIKE A HEARING PERSON DOES. To someone who has had hearing all their life, it would basically sound like listening to the world through a tin can...mixed with static.

 

Secondly, deafness is NOT a disability. Hearing is only a sense that you may or may not have. Some people claim to have psychic powers. Do those people look at all of us and say "Look at all these disabled people!". The only reason deafness is a disability is because people are too stubborn and impatient to learn sign language.

 

You might say that deaf people lack the ability to hear, but THEY would say that YOU lack the ability to NOT hear. Think of the times that you were sitting in an airplane having to cope with a crying baby. Think of the times that you were trying to communicate with someone through a window or in another car or at a noisy party. Think of being woken up at 5AM due to construction outside your window. There are many situations where I would definitely envy the Deaf.

 

Something else you can gain from Deaf people is INCREDIBLE social interaction. You can't just stand infront of someone and look around at distractions and end up barely giving the person your attention. You stand face to face and engage in deep meaningful concentrated social interaction. Some of my most memorable and enjoyable social events have been with Deaf people.

 

Lastly, there is no evidence that supports your crazy theory of them not being able to learn English later in life. Consider this. You can

A) Force your baby to get the implant, and MAYBE he will be able to learn how to use it (probably NOT...MOST cochlear implantees will not develop English very well at all). But if he CANNOT cope with his cochlear he will miss the golden window of language learning in the first few years of his life. If a person does not fully learn a language in the first years of his life, his cognitive abilities will be lower and he stands a good chance of never learning sign language.

OR

B.) You can teach your freakin DEAF KID how to sign the language that will come easy and naturally to him. Hell, we are even reccomending that we teach HEARING BABIES sign language...Babies can start signing as young as 6 months old, and learning language at such a young age has been proven to increase general intelligence.

 

If any of you would like to increase your understanding of the Deaf, I can reccomend 3 books: "Deaf World" "Deaf Again" and "The Mask of Benevolence"

 

I guarantee you that any of those 3 books will convince you that it is much better to have a fully cognitive child than to have a panic attack over how he is "different" and drill a hole in his damn head and force him to hear robot noises all his life.

 

Sources: 6 semesters of college level ASL (and Deaf education), 4 books, 50+ social gatherings of Deaf people, and volunteer service at the local Deaf school

[Giordano]

See, that clears some things up. I knew there wasn't a way to truely hear. If people want this static thing, let them.

 

But I do stick with my original opinion if they ever made a 100% hearing aid, so to speak.

[Myweponsg00d]

See, that clears some things up. I knew there wasn't a way to truely hear. If people want this static thing, let them.

 

But I do stick with my original opinion if they ever made a 100% hearing aid, so to speak.

 

I think the cochlear is a wonderful invention just like cosmetic surgery. If you need that to be happy with your life, then so be it. It should be there for those who want it. Those who are old enough to make an informed decision about it.

 

Even if there was a 100% hearing aid it would still be ridiculous to let people freely implant it in their babies. It would be like taking brown eyed babies and giving them an irreversible procedure to have blue eyes.

 

Also, for those of you who haven't looked for it:

THIS is what people are doing to their babies.

 

One final remark before I go to bed. "Deafness" is not universally the same. We see the word "Deaf" and immediately imagine having noise cancellation earphones on for our whole life. This is not the case for all deaf people. Some Deaf people have absolutely no ear activity, but many have some degree of natural funtionality. Some people think that "hard of hearing" is the term youd use for that, but "hard of hearing" refers to people who can naturally or almost naturally make out conversation. Some Deaf people can even enjoy music. Not in the sense of the way we hear it, but the vibrations still make it to their ears, and they hear/feel a sound.

 

But if you get the cochlear, guess what. It's gone. They tunnel into your head and destroy all of your natural hearing for the computer "hearing".

[Lenin64]

Something else you can gain from Deaf people is INCREDIBLE social interaction. You can't just stand infront of someone and look around at distractions and end up barely giving the person your attention. You stand face to face and engage in deep meaningful concentrated social interaction. Some of my most memorable and enjoyable social events have been with Deaf people.

And then while you're engaged so deeply, you're hit by the surprise attack that comes not from the front, but from the sides. Because if you can't hear, the raptors can speak freely without needing signs.

[Pirate_Felix]

wait they drill a hole in your skull?

[Denith]

wait they drill a hole in your skull?

 

Yeah.. around the ear area. But.. so what? According to your wording I can say that dentists tamper with skulls daily, as if their livelihood depended upon it.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

Yeah.. around the ear area. But.. so what? According to your wording I can say that dentists tamper with skulls daily, as if their livelihood depended upon it.

 

Dentists don't drill a hole into the skull of a child that is like 1 year old to destroy any natural tissue that may have some functionality and replace it with machinery that may or may not allow them to be part of hearing culture.

[tortilliachp]

Secondly, deafness is NOT a disability

 

you get to park in handicap parking here, if you're deaf, or have a deaf person in the family: that's sign of what is legally termed a "disability" here at least. would you say blindness isn't a disability either?`

 

 

I don't know enough about cochlear implants to comment on how they should be used, but marginalizing or normalizing those with disabilities is a disservice to them, and to the loved ones giving them the extra care they need. I'm not advocating victimization, on the other end of the spectrum: deafness is definitely one of the disabilities that reduce your quality of life the least.

[Dizzle229]

Thanks for getting deeper into it Mywepon, I was worried this would be a one-sided argument :thumbup:

 

I should have better explained the cochlear itself, I gave the impression that it's the same as we hear. Really it's more of signals that can be interpreted, kind of like Neil Harbisson, who interprets colors using sound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Harbisson

[Myweponsg00d]

Secondly, deafness is NOT a disability

 

you get to park in handicap parking here, if you're deaf, or have a deaf person in the family: that's sign of what is legally termed a "disability" here at least. would you say blindness isn't a disability either?`

 

 

I don't know enough about cochlear implants to comment on how they should be used, but marginalizing or normalizing those with disabilities is a disservice to them, and to the loved ones giving them the extra care they need. I'm not advocating victimization, on the other end of the spectrum: deafness is definitely one of the disabilities that reduce your quality of life the least.

 

I have met and conversed with probably around 200 deaf people using ASL. Some had cochlear implants that they enjoyed, some had cochlear implants that they hated, some were hard of hearing, some used hearing aids, some were completely deaf.

 

None of them resented their deafness or considered themselves handicapped. The only reason there is any "disability" is just because hearing people see no need to learn sign language.

 

How many deaf have you talked to? All of the ones I have come in contact with would be insulted if you said their quality of life was lower than our quality of life.

 

Hell, I might go as far to say that the Deaf culture quality of life is BETTER than hearing culture. Deaf culture is very friendly, welcoming, and accepting. They are open to everybody's ideas and have some of the most wonderful conversations about things.

 

Deafness is more of a race/ethnicity than a disability. Calling Deaf disabled is like calling white people disabled because we cant jump as high. Or calling black people disabled because their skin is a different color.

 

Please either take my word for it, or go learn ASL yourself. Or even read one of the books I talked about above. (The best one is probably "Deaf Again" by Mark Drolsbaugh) It is a short and inexpensive read, too.

 

Maybe then, youll see that your opinion has been formed by nothing but hearing the audist side of the story (this is what Deaf people call the opression they face from hearing people, like "racism" but "audism" instead)

[anonymous1234]

Secondly, deafness is NOT a disability

 

you get to park in handicap parking here, if you're deaf, or have a deaf person in the family: that's sign of what is legally termed a "disability" here at least. would you say blindness isn't a disability either?`

 

 

I don't know enough about cochlear implants to comment on how they should be used, but marginalizing or normalizing those with disabilities is a disservice to them, and to the loved ones giving them the extra care they need. I'm not advocating victimization, on the other end of the spectrum: deafness is definitely one of the disabilities that reduce your quality of life the least.

 

I have met and conversed with probably around 200 deaf people using ASL. Some had cochlear implants that they enjoyed, some had cochlear implants that they hated, some were hard of hearing, some used hearing aids, some were completely deaf.

 

None of them resented their deafness or considered themselves handicapped. The only reason there is any "disability" is just because hearing people see no need to learn sign language.

 

How many deaf have you talked to? All of the ones I have come in contact with would be insulted if you said their quality of life was lower than our quality of life.

 

Hell, I might go as far to say that the Deaf culture quality of life is BETTER than hearing culture. Deaf culture is very friendly, welcoming, and accepting. They are open to everybody's ideas and have some of the most wonderful conversations about things.

 

Deafness is more of a race/ethnicity than a disability. Calling Deaf disabled is like calling white people disabled because we cant jump as high. Or calling black people disabled because their skin is a different color.

 

Please either take my word for it, or go learn ASL yourself. Or even read one of the books I talked about above. (The best one is probably "Deaf Again" by Mark Drolsbaugh) It is a short and inexpensive read, too.

 

Maybe then, youll see that your opinion has been formed by nothing but hearing the audist side of the story (this is what Deaf people call the opression they face from hearing people, like "racism" but "audism" instead)

"Disabled" is an extremely general term. Deaf people are considered "Disabled" because in certain circumstances, they are at a disadvantage to the hearing. This is not to say they are always at a disadvantage, but the majority of the time they would be. In terms of your racial comment, I would consider "white" people to be at a disability to "black" people in terms of jumping ability, based on personal experiences. And people with black skin would be at a disadvantage on say, an extremely hot day, because darker skin absorbs more heat. Neither of these examples warrant the classification of "disabled," however, because there are very few instances where skin color affects daily life.

[pfilc23]

My dad has a cochlear implant, which he had initially installed about 17 years ago. He has severe hearing loss which began in his early 30's. It progressed fairly rapidly to the point at which he had 4% hearing in one ear and like 7% in the other. It was a very difficult time for our entire family. It was frustrating that he would not realize conversations were going on and interrupt...obviously it was extremely frustrating for him. You could stand directly behind him and talk in a normal tone of voice and he would have no idea you were even there (to make matters worse, he also has tunnel vision). He of course learned over time to sort of read lips, but still struggled to communicate with people. Talking on the telephone was absolutely out of the question.

 

Somehow my parents were able to convince insurance to pay for the implant. I believe it was about $40k then. It took quite a while for him to adjust to the implant. He described what he heard initially as a digital-sounding Mickey Mouse. However, once he adjusted, it worked wonders. I had already moved out of the house and when I came back to visit, I was amazed at the improvement in his hearing. Unfortunately, a few years after he had it put in, he was in a car accident which damaged the implant. Apparently, it can't be fixed and a new implant would have to be installed, but they have been unable to get it ok'd by insurance. It is now operating on like 4 of 9 "circuits".

 

I guess I can understand a person who has been deaf their whole life not wanting to get one, but I'm sure they are still at least curious about it. However, for someone who lost their hearing, cochlear implants are truly an amazing technology.

 

Edit: related to the disibility discussion...even after getting the implant, my father was put on permanent disability and is thus classified from a legal standpoint by both the insurance companies and the government.

[Nadril]

So what would you actually consider to be a disability g00d?... I mean paraplegic's just need to learn how to use a wheel chair; Blind people just need to learn to use their hearing better or need to learn to use a guide dog. Just because there is a way you can overcome something doesn't mean it is not a disability.

[anonymous1234]

So what would you actually consider to be a disability g00d?... I mean paraplegic's just need to learn how to use a wheel chair; Blind people just need to learn to use their hearing better or need to learn to use a guide dog. Just because there is a way you can overcome something doesn't mean it is not a disability.

Paraplegics can't jump. Blind people can't watch TV on mute.

[Nadril]

So what would you actually consider to be a disability g00d?... I mean paraplegic's just need to learn how to use a wheel chair; Blind people just need to learn to use their hearing better or need to learn to use a guide dog. Just because there is a way you can overcome something doesn't mean it is not a disability.

Paraplegics can't jump. Blind people can't watch TV on mute.

 

Ok, and your point is?

[Dizzle229]

The thing is that many deaf people don't actually consider it to be a disability, especially the large number that were born deaf.

 

Imagine that you're born into a world where almost everyone but you has a 6th sense. You've never experienced it, and because of that, it is impossible for them to try and describe it to you. Finally, a doctor says that, although it will be a different thing for you to interpret and pretty much allows you to sense that same thing, as opposed to actually experiencing it, he can give you an implant that will cost you a fortune and has a chance of causing serious harm.

 

Now let's say you refuse. Now they want your children, who were also born without the sense, to get the same potentially harmful surgery. What would you do in that situation?

 

It's easy for us who have lived with hearing all our lives to say "Why wouldn't they want it?", but to them it's like the above scenario. They'd be shelling out a fortune and possibly hurting themselves or their children for something that, for all they know, isn't even worth it.

 

And many of them do get along just fine.

[anonymous1234]

So what would you actually consider to be a disability g00d?... I mean paraplegic's just need to learn how to use a wheel chair; Blind people just need to learn to use their hearing better or need to learn to use a guide dog. Just because there is a way you can overcome something doesn't mean it is not a disability.

Paraplegics can't jump. Blind people can't watch TV on mute.

 

Ok, and your point is?

People are called disabled for a reason. They aren't able to do everything that an average person would be able to do.

[Nadril]

So what would you actually consider to be a disability g00d?... I mean paraplegic's just need to learn how to use a wheel chair; Blind people just need to learn to use their hearing better or need to learn to use a guide dog. Just because there is a way you can overcome something doesn't mean it is not a disability.

Paraplegics can't jump. Blind people can't watch TV on mute.

 

Ok, and your point is?

People are called disabled for a reason. They aren't able to do everything that an average person would be able to do.

 

Well yeah, that's obvious. if you're trying to argue against me I'm not being serious in what I said. Just taking the idea that g00d said out of context.

[Iamdan]

So what would you actually consider to be a disability g00d?... I mean paraplegic's just need to learn how to use a wheel chair; Blind people just need to learn to use their hearing better or need to learn to use a guide dog. Just because there is a way you can overcome something doesn't mean it is not a disability.

Paraplegics can't jump. Blind people can't watch TV on mute.

 

Ok, and your point is?

 

He feels the term disabled is derogatory towards deaf people, because deaf people can lead a normal life. Unlike those freaks who can't see. We need to learn to be more understanding.