US Drops to #49 in Life Expectancy

[Saru Inc]

An where's the measure of the quality of health care.

[Bloodstain]

An where's the measure of the quality of health care.

 

Life expectancy would be a good one, although I guess it's kind of, subjective?. The point is though, countries with universal (and every other country on the graphs) are spending less on health care than USA is, and ALL citizens get access to health care. Preventative health care ftw

 

E: Here's a ranking based on 8 measures, but it's for 1997

 

http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_performance_ranks.html

 

I'm going to bed now and cba to find a recent one

 

e 2: Also, there's this

http://www.allcountries.org/ranks/preventable_deaths_country_ranks_1997-1998_2002-2003_2008.html

[Pirate_Felix]

Not surprised to be honest.

Health care shouldn't be privatized. Letting a person die because he can't pay for something is inhumane.

 

Good to see The Netherlands scored way higher.

[Zygimantas]

Ha, this discussion reminds me of the movie "John Q".

[aeternitatis]

OK:

 

I live (near) Windsor ON. Look it up: it has one of the worst health-care systems in our country. Long waits, shortage of doctors, etc.

 

Now, prompt care has been provided every time there has been a problem. Cancer, stroke, asthma, brain cyst, cuts, difficult births...

 

I've never waited more than an hour. Ever. I have no idea where that story comes from: has anyone here ever actually been to a Canadian hospital? And even if waits were longer (as I'm sure they are if your problem isn't at all urgent) is that much of a price for everyone having free health care? Do you have to worry that you'll bankrupt your family if you're ever sick? Rich, poor, black white: everyone gets treated when they're sick.

 

There is a reason Tommy Douglas is a national hero. Stop being so stuck up, stop believing the lies that the pharmaceutical and insurance corporations have told you. You are not automatically superior to everyone else in the world, no matter what your teachers and parents have said. Come see what we have: come watch people from Detroit come here to get health care, because no one in their own country cares enough about them to offer it.

 

I live in Sudbury ON and every time I've had to go to emergency I've waited 6+ hours... The clinics suck too, it's almost always an automatic 2 hour wait, and they're usually full early and they have to stop accepting patients 3-4 hours before they're supposed to.

 

I agree that free health care is great, and I guess I'm complaining too much... but comparing Windsor to the rest of Ontario and saying it's "one of the worst" is totally incorrect.

[sees_all1]

You know what's great about America? We can chose to spend our money on anything we want. If you want cosmetic surgeries out the wazoo, you can get it done in America. If you want to spend nearly $100,000/year or more on cancer drugs, you can.

 

Maybe that's the reason our medical costs are so high? Because we have more options for treatments, and wealthy people willing to shell out anything for a few extra months?

Could you do that in a system that has free health care? I seriously doubt it. Let me know if you think otherwise.

[Pirate_Felix]

You know what's great about America? We can chose to spend our money on anything we want. If you want cosmetic surgeries out the wazoo, you can get it done in America. If you want to spend nearly $100,000/year or more on cancer drugs, you can.

 

Maybe that's the reason our medical costs are so high? Because we have more options for treatments, and wealthy people willing to shell out anything for a few extra months?

Could you do that in a system that has free health care? I seriously doubt it. Let me know if you think otherwise.

Then why do more people die in america if you have better health care.

Because you dont.

[obfuscator]

You know what's great about America? We can chose to spend our money on anything we want. If you want cosmetic surgeries out the wazoo, you can get it done in America. If you want to spend nearly $100,000/year or more on cancer drugs, you can.

 

Maybe that's the reason our medical costs are so high? Because we have more options for treatments, and wealthy people willing to shell out anything for a few extra months?

Could you do that in a system that has free health care? I seriously doubt it. Let me know if you think otherwise.

 

You can do all that in Canada too :)

[Saru Inc]

You know what's great about America? We can chose to spend our money on anything we want. If you want cosmetic surgeries out the wazoo, you can get it done in America. If you want to spend nearly $100,000/year or more on cancer drugs, you can.

 

Maybe that's the reason our medical costs are so high? Because we have more options for treatments, and wealthy people willing to shell out anything for a few extra months?

Could you do that in a system that has free health care? I seriously doubt it. Let me know if you think otherwise.

Then why do more people die in america if you have better health care.

Because you dont.

 

 

Thee bigger the population the more will die...

 

We have a bigger population than the Netherlands, I think. Naturally, there's a bigger chance of people dying.

 

 

Health care is amazing. Privatized Health care is awesome. But then again, I guess since American Schools suck so much, and Americans are so ignorant, I just don't know what I'm talking about.

[sees_all1]

You know what's great about America? We can chose to spend our money on anything we want. If you want cosmetic surgeries out the wazoo, you can get it done in America. If you want to spend nearly $100,000/year or more on cancer drugs, you can.

 

Maybe that's the reason our medical costs are so high? Because we have more options for treatments, and wealthy people willing to shell out anything for a few extra months?

Could you do that in a system that has free health care? I seriously doubt it. Let me know if you think otherwise.

 

You can do all that in Canada too :)

 

If you have to pay for your treatment, it no longer is free. Will the Canadian Government foot the bill for the $93,000 it costs for provenge?

[Giordano]

When will Obamacare start forcing us to get medical insurance.

[obfuscator]

You know what's great about America? We can chose to spend our money on anything we want. If you want cosmetic surgeries out the wazoo, you can get it done in America. If you want to spend nearly $100,000/year or more on cancer drugs, you can.

 

Maybe that's the reason our medical costs are so high? Because we have more options for treatments, and wealthy people willing to shell out anything for a few extra months?

Could you do that in a system that has free health care? I seriously doubt it. Let me know if you think otherwise.

 

You can do all that in Canada too :)

 

If you have to pay for your treatment, it no longer is free. Will the Canadian Government foot the bill for the $93,000 it costs for provenge?

Some cosmetic surgery actually is free. Some cancer treatments are paid for as well, but I can't speak for specific medicines.

[Alg]

Then why do more people die in america if you have better health care.

Because you dont.

The first thing Magekillr posted was a list of life expectancies by country as of 1999, right? The States were 24th with an average of around 70 years. According to Wikipedia we're now 38th with an average of 78 years. The Netherlands are 16th and are at just under 80 years. Not a big difference, no? Not enough that you can solely blame health care like Magekillr's liberal blogs did.

 

We also have a gigantic population. That has to count for something too.

[Danqazmlp]

What people forget is that it may be x in one area, but it will be y in another. Here in the UK, the life expectancy changes dramatically from for example, the south coast to inner city Manchester in the north. Then place that next to the US which is about 10 times the size, with about 10 times the population. It would be much more effective if you were to compare states than comparing the Us as a whole, as it cannot give any sort of accurate reading of how it actually is on the ground.

[krimi]

Tough break for those who actually need care but can't pay right? They probably don't deserve it or something!

[obfuscator]

Then why do more people die in america if you have better health care.

Because you dont.

The first thing Magekillr posted was a list of life expectancies by country as of 1999, right? The States were 24th with an average of around 70 years. According to Wikipedia we're now 38th with an average of 78 years. The Netherlands are 16th and are at just under 80 years. Not a big difference, no? Not enough that you can solely blame health care like Magekillr's liberal blogs did.

 

We also have a gigantic population. That has to count for something too.

Yeah I was wondering about that. Statistics are not always what they seem :P

[Pirate_Felix]

Then why do more people die in america if you have better health care.

Because you dont.

The first thing Magekillr posted was a list of life expectancies by country as of 1999, right? The States were 24th with an average of around 70 years. According to Wikipedia we're now 38th with an average of 78 years. The Netherlands are 16th and are at just under 80 years. Not a big difference, no? Not enough that you can solely blame health care like Magekillr's liberal blogs did.

 

We also have a gigantic population. That has to count for something too.

Lets split this up. First part->Okay so you want to live two years less, cool with me

Second part->Nononononononono NO NO NO NO NO. You are such a big country, no wonder you got a gigantic population. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_population_density

Look at that, we are on 28 with states like monaco, san marino and vatican being above us, those aren't real countries. United states=178.

So no, a big population doesnt count in a big country.

[Alg]

What does density have to do with anything for this topic?

[Pirate_Felix]

What does density have to do with anything for this topic?

More people living on less space is bad for your health?

 

"We also have a gigantic population. That has to count for something too."

What does that have to do with anything for this topic?

[Alg]

That part, I threw in because I wasn't sure whether or not it did count for something. If I knew, I'd have thrown in a bit more.

[Zierro]

Then why do more people die in america if you have better health care.

Because you dont.

The first thing Magekillr posted was a list of life expectancies by country as of 1999, right? The States were 24th with an average of around 70 years. According to Wikipedia we're now 38th with an average of 78 years. The Netherlands are 16th and are at just under 80 years. Not a big difference, no? Not enough that you can solely blame health care like Magekillr's liberal blogs did.

 

We also have a gigantic population. That has to count for something too.

 

I love when people try to [mis]use statistics to "prove" their points. It just shows everyone how focused you are on wanting to believe that - rather than being fair and truthful.

 

If anything, I would guess that the life expectancy is mostly correlated with the increasingly awful American diet.

[Hamtaro]

"Poor access to prenatal care, maternal obesity and smoking, too-early cesarean sections and induced labour and fertility treatments are among the reasons for preterm births, experts said."

I would argue that's due to the horrible public school system and the collapse of family values over the past 2-3 decades.

Fat moms, smoking, and C-sections due to public schools... what?

Having an account on a forum and not know what the word "and" means... what?

Not knowing that smoking causes birth defects isn't something that's supposed to be taught in the health class at school... what?

[Dupin]

While health care may be an important factor, I think the main reason our life expectancy is so low is obesity and the American lifestyle. I hate to make generalizations, but even Americans who aren't fat or smokers tend to be very stressed, and that's certainly not healthy.

 

What people forget is that it may be x in one area, but it will be y in another. Here in the UK, the life expectancy changes dramatically from for example, the south coast to inner city Manchester in the north. Then place that next to the US which is about 10 times the size, with about 10 times the population. It would be much more effective if you were to compare states than comparing the Us as a whole, as it cannot give any sort of accurate reading of how it actually is on the ground.

This is an excellent point, and ties into the idea above. I would expect that life expectancy of an upper-middle class community to be in the mid 80s, but that of a lower class area to be much lower. In addition to a tendency towards violence and substance abuse, poor families in the US have a much higher obesity rate. If we really want to remedy our rankings in these worldwide comparisons, we need to provide better opportunities for children born into lower class households.

[Zierro]

^^ Exactly. A lot of people seem to forget that America is a completely different country. Health care, gun laws, the justice system, etc. are not the only differences America has with other countries. There are tons of things we need to take into account if we are to make a valid comparison.

[Alg]

I love when people try to [mis]use statistics to "prove" their points. It just shows everyone how focused you are on wanting to believe that - rather than being fair and truthful.

Was this directed at him or me? :razz:

 

Though I fully agree with your latest post.