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[Troacctid]

Herblore - Great content from the low 80s to the high 90s. Perfect skill.

I'm going to take issue with this one. Herblore is a perfect example of a skill with great high-level content, but a dearth of low-level content. Beginner-level herblore today is practically the same as it was in RSC. There's nothing in the skill to get beginners started, creating a significant barrier to entry. As a result, new members just don't train herblore. The skill is seriously lacking in introductory content; it needs something to convince new players that they should be training it in the first place. This is a big problem for farming and some other skills as well.

 

This is part of what I was talking about when I said there has to be content for all levels.

Herblore has quest requirements up to the 60s I believe (what was WGS again?). It could maybe use a couple more quests pushing herblore requirements up into the low 80s, but it's decent as it is now. People who train it are heavily rewarded, which is a lot more than you can say for most skills.

You're underestimating the difference between level 5 and level 60 herblore. Level 60 means you're already significantly invested in the skill.

[Sir_Kurity]

Herblore has quest requirements up to the 60s I believe (what was WGS again?). It could maybe use a couple more quests pushing herblore requirements up into the low 80s, but it's decent as it is now. People who train it are heavily rewarded, which is a lot more than you can say for most skills.

 

I actually see a problem with every skill being like herblore.

 

Though i agree every skill should be useful in its own right, a player should be able to be a great mage/fighter without a grinding of multiple skills to 90+ for there equavalent of overload potions. This has particular effect on PVP, in which people who just want to PK should not have to bring 8 other skills up to level 99 for the sake of being a better Pker. Of course, this could be solved by making every one of these skills unusable in PVP. But it still has the problem of compelling combat lovers to get 90+ in certain skills just to compete with other boss hunters.

 

I'm of the opinion that if someone is high/maxed combat, they should be able to do the most damage/whatever that runescape allows. And not be constrained by the 8 other skills, which though not specified as combat skills, are actually a requirement for true maxed combat.

[MightyMuddy]

Herblore has quest requirements up to the 60s I believe (what was WGS again?). It could maybe use a couple more quests pushing herblore requirements up into the low 80s, but it's decent as it is now. People who train it are heavily rewarded, which is a lot more than you can say for most skills.

 

I actually see a problem with every skill being like herblore.

 

Though i agree every skill should be useful in its own right, a player should be able to be a great mage/fighter without a grinding of multiple skills to 90+ for there equavalent of overload potions. This has particular effect on PVP, in which people who just want to PK should not have to bring 8 other skills up to level 99 for the sake of being a better Pker. Of course, this could be solved by making every one of these skills unusable in PVP. But it still has the problem of compelling combat lovers to get 90+ in certain skills just to compete with other boss hunters.

 

I'm of the opinion that if someone is high/maxed combat, they should be able to do the most damage/whatever that runescape allows. And not be constrained by the 8 other skills, which though not specified as combat skills, are actually a requirement for true maxed combat.

They don't have to envolve combat, something that makes Prayer or herblore cheaper/easier would be nice.

[green9090]

Herblore has quest requirements up to the 60s I believe (what was WGS again?). It could maybe use a couple more quests pushing herblore requirements up into the low 80s, but it's decent as it is now. People who train it are heavily rewarded, which is a lot more than you can say for most skills.

 

I actually see a problem with every skill being like herblore.

 

Though i agree every skill should be useful in its own right, a player should be able to be a great mage/fighter without a grinding of multiple skills to 90+ for there equavalent of overload potions. This has particular effect on PVP, in which people who just want to PK should not have to bring 8 other skills up to level 99 for the sake of being a better Pker. Of course, this could be solved by making every one of these skills unusable in PVP. But it still has the problem of compelling combat lovers to get 90+ in certain skills just to compete with other boss hunters.

 

I'm of the opinion that if someone is high/maxed combat, they should be able to do the most damage/whatever that runescape allows. And not be constrained by the 8 other skills, which though not specified as combat skills, are actually a requirement for true maxed combat.

Because in Runescape, unlike other RPGs, leveling up shouldn't give an advantage?

 

Forget that. If you want to be powerful, you need to train your account. Noobs who sit in pest control until max combat have no right to compete with a well-rounded player. Otherwise why have all those other skills? Looks? The illusion of having more meaningful content than actually exists?

 

This is the same old argument of "I want the game to be over sooner because I want to be the best without earning it." Sorry, you've picked the wrong genre.

[Zierro]

I agree with Green. The only incentive I had for training skills was... to train skills. If they were intertwined into combat and gave you more perks, there is more incentive to play all of the material Jagex set up for us. After all, going out of your way and questing, skilling, collecting, etc. in order to increase your effectiveness on the battlefield has always been a trademark amongst RPG's.

[Sir_Kurity]

Because in Runescape, unlike other RPGs, leveling up shouldn't give an advantage?

 

Leveling up a random skill for hundreds of hours shouldn't give you an untradable advantage in combat.

 

Other RPG's don't have 20 non combat skills. As far as most RPG's ive played/heard of, the few skills there are are generally independant of the combat.

 

Forget that. If you want to be powerful, you need to train your account. Noobs who sit in pest control until max combat have no right to compete with a well-rounded player.

 

Those "noobs who sit in pest control", are obviously interested in there combat, and should not be required to train other skills in order to improve there combat prowess.

 

Otherwise why have all those other skills? Looks? The illusion of having more meaningful content than actually exists?

 

Skills should be useful in there own right, and many are. If the only way to make them useful is by giving them untradable ways of augmenting combat, then something is wrong.

 

This is the same old argument of "I want the game to be over sooner because I want to be the best without earning it." Sorry, you've picked the wrong genre.

 

This is the argument of i don't want random skills like smithing/herblore affecting how well i swing a sword.

 

If your so hell bent on cutting a tree for 200 hours, fishing for 200 hours, smithing platebodys for 100 hours, making potions for 100 hours, and any other number of arbitary skills just so you can be better at combat, Sorry, you shouldn't even be playing a game.

 

A defining feature of an RPG is that you can make your character how you want to make it, as runescape is not constrained by a class based system, making every skill useful for be overwhelming.

 

A mighty warrior/whatever should not have to brew potions for hundreds of hours just so he can hit harder. Conversely, someone more interested in skills should not have to spend a considerable time training combat.

[CharlieBrown]

The above poster is clearly a lazy pk'er who wishes to do nothing but waste time rotting away in bh +1 worlds with his ags.

 

Amirite?

[Quyneax]

@Green: Torstol is also good to farm on normal patches, good xp.

[Den]

The above poster is clearly a lazy pk'er who wishes to do nothing but waste time rotting away in bh +1 worlds with his ags.

 

Amirite?

 

Not to be mean or anything, but it does come off as ^ that.

 

Why shouldn't firemaking increase Fire Magic's effectiveness for example?

[meili]

It's not the difficulty I don't like. I mean, exactly how "difficult" are the achievements anyway? It's just a lot of time spent playing and a lot of mouse clicking.

 

What I really don't like is the large amount of boring tasks I have to do like stupid and useless quests. :(

[stonewall337]

Think kurtiy is missing the point....Level 85 IS NOT HIGH LEVEL. What I'm talking about is real high level stuff, things level 95+. Thus even kingly imps, rune mining, and double nats wouldn't count.

 

Thats part of the problem, Kurity, you aren't high level yet, so you view "high level" as I view "medium" level content.

 

And the arguement "Other MMO's I don't have to so why should I in RS..." Is asinine. Those games ARE NOT RS. RS IS NOT ANY OTHER GAME.

[Sir_Kurity]

The above poster is clearly a lazy pk'er who wishes to do nothing but waste time rotting away in bh +1 worlds with his ags.

 

Amirite?

 

Herblore doesnt effect PVP atm, so your logic fails as much as you do.

 

Though yes, you are right in one thing, i am lazy in not wanting to do something clearly unfun and unrelated for over 200 hours just to benifit by combat. Or in your words "waste time rotting away in GE with his potions" (The difference being that PVP is actually fun, so its not a waste of time)

 

If i want to be good at combat, i should be able to do so without training what should be completely unrelated aspects of the game.

 

Why shouldn't firemaking increase Fire Magic's effectiveness for example?

 

Because being particularly adept at rubbing a tinderbox togethor wouldn't effect your spellcasting in the slightest?

 

Thats part of the problem, Kurity, you aren't high level yet, so you view "high level" as I view "medium" level content.

 

Maybe the problem is that your so high level, that any high level content released is what you view as medium level.

 

And the arguement "Other MMO's I don't have to so why should I in RS..." Is asinine. Those games ARE NOT RS. RS IS NOT ANY OTHER GAME.

 

Its part of a wide ranging argument

 

But really, why should seemingly unrelated skills effect your prowess in combat?

[Sir_Kurity]

Not to be mean or anything, but it does come off as ^ that.

 

I love how its always the maxed players who think everyone else is lazy.

 

Just because you have an extreme tolerance to boredom which allows you to grind most of the skills to 99 for hundreds of hours/days, doesn't mean everyone else suddenly lazy.

 

Tl;dr, don't push your boredom onto others.

[green9090]

Though yes, you are right in one thing, i am lazy in not wanting to do something clearly unfun and unrelated for over 200 hours just to benifit by combat. Or in your words "waste time rotting away in GE with his potions" (The difference being that PVP is actually fun, so its not a waste of time)

This is why you're playing the wrong game. If you like jumping right in and killing people without any effort put in to developing your character and earning abilities, there are many, many genres of game that cater directly to you. First-person shooters sound like they'd be right up your alley. What the hell are you doing playing an RPG if you don't like training?

 

This has been a problem for a long time. Some PKers are selfish, lazy brats who for some bizarre reason have chosen to play a game that requires work and delayed gratification, and then they get pissed off about it when an update comes out that requires work and delayed gratification.

 

Quit. Play a game geared toward you, because this is not it. Stop trying to hold everyone back because of your asinine ideas on how RPGs should do away with the concept of leveling. Some people are not lazy and spoiled and enjoy the sense of accomplishment that we get from earning new abilities, and this is the kind of game made for us.

[Obtaurian]

Though yes, you are right in one thing, i am lazy in not wanting to do something clearly unfun and unrelated for over 200 hours just to benifit by combat. Or in your words "waste time rotting away in GE with his potions" (The difference being that PVP is actually fun, so its not a waste of time)

This is why you're playing the wrong game. If you like jumping right in and killing people without any effort put in to developing your character and earning abilities, there are many, many genres of game that cater directly to you. First-person shooters sound like they'd be right up your alley. What the hell are you doing playing an RPG if you don't like training?

 

This has been a problem for a long time. Some PKers are selfish, lazy brats who for some bizarre reason have chosen to play a game that requires work and delayed gratification, and then they get pissed off about it when an update comes out that requires work and delayed gratification.

 

Quit. Play a game geared toward you, because this is not it. Stop trying to hold everyone back because of your asinine ideas on how RPGs should do away with the concept of leveling. Some people are not lazy and spoiled and enjoy the sense of accomplishment that we get from earning new abilities, and this is the kind of game made for us.

 

This. Certain people need to stop coming to Runescape forums when they're clearly supposed to be playing Call of Duty or League of Legends.

[lordkafei]

Thats part of the problem, Kurity, you aren't high level yet, so you view "high level" as I view "medium" level content.

 

Maybe the problem is that your so high level, that any high level content released is what you view as medium level.

 

This is worth consideration.

 

Jagex bills members Runescape as having 25,000 hours of gameplay - that's 1041 days of 24-hour play (or 6,250 days @ 4 hours a day). That's 17 estimated years of content if you play 4 hours a day. I'd wager some here have clocked that kind of time in far less than 17 years.

 

In the interests of disclosure, I will state that I am sitting at about 470 24-hour days - less than halfway finished - and I have been around since the Classic days (I was around for scythe drops).

 

If people feel they have maxed out the game, perhaps it's time for an honest examination of playing habits & time spent. Perhaps Jagex really isn't to blame for the lack of high-level content. Perhaps people are just playing the one facet they enjoy rather than the broader scope of the game. Or perhaps you really have played 25,000 hours and just need to get up, open the window and look outside.

 

It is a question each of us has to answer. But at some point, the silly, repetitive escalation of weaponry and bosses has to reach its end.

[Youmu]

This is why you're playing the wrong game. If you like jumping right in and killing people without any effort put in to developing your character and earning abilities, there are many, many genres of game that cater directly to you. First-person shooters sound like they'd be right up your alley. What the hell are you doing playing an RPG if you don't like training?

 

This has been a problem for a long time. Some PKers are selfish, lazy brats who for some bizarre reason have chosen to play a game that requires work and delayed gratification, and then they get pissed off about it when an update comes out that requires work and delayed gratification.

 

Quit. Play a game geared toward you, because this is not it. Stop trying to hold everyone back because of your asinine ideas on how RPGs should do away with the concept of leveling. Some people are not lazy and spoiled and enjoy the sense of accomplishment that we get from earning new abilities, and this is the kind of game made for us.

While I do certainly agree with your points, telling those kind of people to quit is a bit harsh...

 

But yeah, people that WANT achievements without any kind of work towards them need a change of mind, because that's clearly not how an RPG works.

[Kimberly]

Herblore doesnt effect PVP atm, so your logic fails as much as you do.

 

Not entirely true. Herblore is allowed in safe-pvp environments. Although not typically the environment noticed by 'hardcore pkers', it does have an effect.

 

If i want to be good at combat, i should be able to do so without training what should be completely unrelated aspects of the game.

 

...

 

But really, why should seemingly unrelated skills effect your prowess in combat?

 

There are already a lot of skills that affect combat, though I see what you're trying to say. That rune worn by melee whip'ers was smithed by someone, the food caught by someone, the gem in their necklace cut and forged by someone. Everything affects your ability to survive in small degrees that, if they were completely kept separate, would have some really big implications on the game.

 

EDIT: OH GOD EVERY GAME WOULD BE A SOUL WARS GAME. NO PLEASE NO.

[green9090]

While I do certainly agree with your points, telling those kind of people to quit is a bit harsh...

 

But yeah, people that WANT achievements without any kind of work towards them need a change of mind, because that's clearly not how an RPG works.

Well, I mean, they can either quit or continually be pissed off that the game is in no way geared to their playstyle. I just assume it'd be more fun for them if they buy some mindless FPS and go frolick with their own kind rather than sitting here trying to stick their square peg in a round hole.

[Zaaps1]

While I do certainly agree with your points, telling those kind of people to quit is a bit harsh...

 

But yeah, people that WANT achievements without any kind of work towards them need a change of mind, because that's clearly not how an RPG works.

Well, I mean, they can either quit or continually be pissed off that the game is in no way geared to their playstyle. I just assume it'd be more fun for them if they buy some mindless FPS and go frolick with their own kind rather than sitting here trying to stick their square peg in a round hole.

 

Agreed. Some people think they can force a game to be custom tailored to them.

 

Best part is when pures complain about prayer or defense requirements for quests, diaries, etc. I can think of no better example.

[Youmu]

Yeah the game is made to be custom tailored to us regular players.

 

Now, about the other skills, they really do need good, untradeable additions at 90+. Arrow-and-bolt-strengtheners (p+++) for fletching, more powerful imbued runes/staves for runecrafting, stolen pieces of very powerful gear for thieving, access to high-level areas for agility, adding on more healing food for cooking, catching rare species that are useful in combat for hunter, improving weapons and armor for smithing...

 

List goes on. The ULTIMATE solution is to connect every single skill to elite-level combat.

 

The only con is that every single skill (and yes, EVERY SINGLE SKILL) would become another prayer/herblore. But who cares? That's how the game is supposed to be. Would make 99s actual accomplishments.

[Kimberly]

I don't understand the desire for untradable additions. If the skill has buyable components, untradable additions do not lessen its buyability.

[Youmu]

I don't understand the desire for untradable additions. If the skill has buyable components, untradable additions do not lessen its buyability.

If it's tradable, then there would be MUCH less incentive to level up skills into the 90s. You can simply buy the thing instead of grinding a skill that has little benefits.

[Kimberly]

I don't understand the desire for untradable additions. If the skill has buyable components, untradable additions do not lessen its buyability.

If it's tradable, then there would be MUCH less incentive to level up skills into the 90s. You can simply buy the thing instead of grinding a skill that has little benefits.

 

That argument has more holes than a swiss cheese slice. Do you mean to tell me that extremes and overloads would be less desired because they'd be tradable?

[Youmu]

That argument has more holes than a swiss cheese slice. Do you mean to tell me that extremes and overloads would be less desired because they'd be tradable?

The items itself would obviously have a lot of desire. However, actually training yourself up for the requirement to make extremes and overloads... then THAT would have no desire. Herblore would be extremely cheap and ultimately pointless to level up.

 

Making elite items untradable gives players incentives to train their skills up really high to reap the benefits of elite gear.