Dungeoneering Again

[Seraphi]

I am not good with that many subcategories. Out of habit, I like to classify things into as large a group as possible, and having 5 sub-sub-skills per sub skill, of which there are 5 per skill, of which there are around 20 which are practical, infinite which are not... It would drive me really rather insane.

[archimage_a]

My problem with Archi's system is that it puts a mild limit on creativity. After all, if I wanted to falcon-punch something, or put an arrow on fire, what would it be classed under?

 

Falcon Punch

Level 1? Melee

Level 5? Offensive

Level 10? Crush

Level 15? Fists

Level 20? Falcon Punch

 

Or

 

Falcon Punch

Level 1? Melee

Level 5? Close Quarters Combat

Level 10? Offensive

Level 15? High Powered

Level 20? Fists

Level 25? Falcon Punch

 

Arrow on Fire

Level 1- Crafting/Fletching/Firelighting/Archery

Level 5- A division of one of them.

 

It would probably depend what mood the moderator was in...or if you had a particularly high level in one of those already.

 

 

@Retech

I agree.

The moderator could note down that person X is better at Skill Y...I just find, from experiance, that after three or four sessions Person X and Z look relatively similar and Person A has notes for nine different things where I thought they were gonna focus on this, but instead did that.

Levels are simply an easier way to keep track of most everything.

And notes tend to be secret, which can make things seem unfair...especially if they are negative effects.

 

There aren't really any fractions...Well, there are, but they have no practical impact on the game.

For instance, if I pured Fireballs till level 20, then tried to light a candle it would just go into domestic, with the associated chance of success.

You can, if you want, go 'I worked it out as fire magic level 7.333251234789234' but the practical implication is you have a lot of skills at different levels.

 

 

Is it flight to be blown along in an air current?

You could use thermal convection and fire magic to achieve the same effect...Or ride a water/ice stream...Levitate with Soul Magic or summon a path of light with Light magic.

By my understand of flight, the use of Warp or Nature magic would be best...since you can grow wings for flight.

 

But all of those ways are just ways of getting airborne...So wouldn't 'Flight' itself be a better skill? In this scenario?

 

@Mask:

I like the idea and it would work really well for Melee, or as seperate skills (Offense and Defence).

 

 

@Ross:

=P

Well, if you ever go insane, the system is there if you want it.

[Seraphi]

I think that a system such as that would work much better if there was a more solid and predefined system... Like a research tree. It doesn't really suit this game, though would make a fairly decent defining feature for a game unto itself.

 

Perhaps down the road it could be used to build another game.

[The_Mather1]

EDIT: Mather, I'm not sure if you could even use Soul Magic. Your character is kinda... Chaotic [undefined].

One word: Richard.

 

Seriously though, I'm going to try. Imagine gems, each corresponding to their own god, enchanted to bind their avatar to the will of the creator. Not neccessarely taking control over their body but rather by directing their minds and altering their thought patterns.

Upon being finished, each gem shaped as the symbol of their corresponding god, would be placed upon the chest of the corresponding avatar, giving me control of its thoughts, its emotions, its intentions and ultimately its body.

I could rule the world or let havoc upon it, but no, I would rather chose to restore it. The avatar of creation would be sent to uncover ruins from the great nations of the past and rebuild them to their previous magnificence. The avatar of destruction would wander the wastes, laying havoc upon the mighty beasts that have been threatening man since the dawn of their existence. And in such manner all the avatars would do what lies in their nature and restore the world. Not into one empire nor a million. But into one world where tribes, towns and grand nations could co-exist and co-operate, taking the world into a new era, an era of peace and of development.

 

*wakes up from trance*

 

Now where were I? Ah, yes, mind-control gems...

[Alg]

I think that a system such as that would work much better if there was a more solid and predefined system... Like a research tree. It doesn't really suit this game, though would make a fairly decent defining feature for a game unto itself.

 

Perhaps down the road it could be used to build another game.

The next Hegemony? Research trees seem to be popular in RTSes and I think you guys were planning one of those...

[The_Mather1]

Nah, tech trees have never been our style there, we tend to research whatever we want and usually no one complains before the tech is being used. Something which is very annoying after waiting for more than three months on a single tech.

[Icuownage]

Well, depends really.

 

Tech trees are useful for us, but I like the whole, there's a set tech tree, with set effects, and set times, which anyone can do.

 

And then ontop of that, there is freedom techs, which we can research, which we design ourselves, with the risk of it not being as good, but the possibility of it being better.

[Nexaduro]

Okay, I might just make a chart for this stuff.

 

We don't need that many categories, but I think two-path specializations would work well. You could specify a switch between styles, which would take a turn, and begin giving you exp in the different style. I think that should only be after level 50, however... which I suggest as the new master level. Jen hasn't accomplished a squick with her magic, but she's already into intermediate. We obviously need to set higher bars.

[Retech]

So are you suggesting that "master" means something better, or everything else means something worse?

 

 

Level 50 master makes level 20 or so intermediate, which makes level 5 terrible. :P

[Nexaduro]

Master means like, maybe Brian-level, though I don't know what he can actually do. 50 is Archmage, 25 is Mage, <25 is Beginner. Maybe it would work differently for melee and crafting, both of which would involve more specialization early on and take more work to level up in.

[Retech]

The thing is that we already have master-level at level 20. So I am asking, in order to make your change, are you making the magic of a master better or nerfing everyone elses magic and slowing advancement so that we would reach the current master-level of magical strength at level 50 than level 20.

 

Regardless, my character has done nothing out of character (except maybe the twister over the lake, but that was just random boredom). She has acquired proficient use of magic, tried to help the refugees running from Hallowsdale (part of her reason for learning magic), and has started a trip to somewhere. The only thing is that I don't try to leave until I have a toolkit (aka the spells that I had invented/experimented with). That way, I don't necessarily have to make up a spell on the spot that I'm unsure about (and might be too energy-draining), but I can just pull out a spell that I have used once or twice and documented that it was easy and that I could do it with two hands behind my back and my eyes shut (which I could remind Ross about if he'd like).

 

The way of the scholar. Trying a new spell off the field rather than using it while fighting a ridiculously more powerful opponent.

[Icuownage]

Isn't this all for Ross to decide?

 

Probably better to consult him directly :P.

[archimage_a]

Mmmm, trying to redesign the game after people have grown acustomed to the system involved is just gonna rock the boat.

 

 

So I think we should just roll with it...since Ross acknowledges that there are flaws in the system, but that solving them could just create more of a problem than the original flaw caused...If it occurs that Retech becomes super-uber mage in 5 sessions time then, either, people will have an incentive to catch up, or give up.

The former means the problems were not that serious, so solving them was pointless, the latter means that the problems were that serious and we know for next time.

 

 

The worst thing we can really do is try to nerf anyone who ever gets ahead...that was what really destroyed every hegemony thus far.

[Retech]

Clearly I am not nearly as powerful as you think I am (though I won't stop you from thinking that :P). I've just been trying out a lot of different skills, so I am merely more versatile, not necessary twice or three times as powerful. Just more consistently powerful over many situations.

[The_Mather1]

You are maybe five times as strong as me, but that's likely due to me falling asleep halfway through the sessions.

[archimage_a]

As I have said before I don't really care how other people play the game, as long as it is vaguely fair.

 

For instance multi magic currently has an advantage since repetative casting decreases the XP you gain...So the way to overcome that is to ignore XP and generate GP instead, since cutting down trees with water magic and then welding them together with ice magic won't generate much in the way of sellable products, while making glass generates goodly amount of GP.

[Alg]

It does make sense to decide how to handle higher levels before anyone gets them though.

[Nexaduro]

^ Exactly.

 

I mean, my issue is people getting to level 20, declaring "I am Iron Man!" and then deciding that the locals have started to annoy them. I don't suggest a nerf so much as an extension of goals... our magic isn't well-defined in terms of power, at least to the players, so Ross could make adjustments without really nerfing anyone. Heck, I'd say true Master level should be at 100, but that would probably make Jen through up her hands and leave.

 

I guess I don't really mind any of this that much

[The_Mather1]

Being Iron Man doesn't help much, flying into a city while wearing a tank only gets you a mouthful of cannonballs. :blink:

[Retech]

^ Exactly.

 

I mean, my issue is people getting to level 20, declaring "I am Iron Man!" and then deciding that the locals have started to annoy them. I don't suggest a nerf so much as an extension of goals... our magic isn't well-defined in terms of power, at least to the players, so Ross could make adjustments without really nerfing anyone. Heck, I'd say true Master level should be at 100, but that would probably make Jen through up her hands and leave.

 

I guess I don't really mind any of this that much

 

If it was a nerf then I'd go back to training, until I had the same capabilities as I had before. If it's affecting future levels, then that would be okay and should be open to discussion. The whole thing I was doing originally was defining my magic, so I knew what I could do and what I couldn't. Basically, nerf magic all you'd like, but don't nerf something I've already achieved. Think about what happened when you realized (or I suppose maybe heard again after choosing to ignore it) that anyone could use soul magic, when you thought it was special because it could only be used by the rightous (At least how I interpreted what you said). And then half of your stuff doesn't work.

 

I'm only ever pissed when I feel I've been unfairly nerfed. Applying a legal concept, you can't charge someone with a crime if they commited the act before the law was passed. Make adjustments before the game or far in advance of where anyone is going to be. (Probaly the same in Britain) It is probaly not going to affect anyone that master level happens to be 20, 50, or 100, as long as they don't lose what they already have.

 

 

Just to make it clear, my goal is not to reach master level. That's way beyond the scope of concievable time at the moment.

[Nexaduro]

Lol, Retech.

 

I already said a nerf of what has been achieved isn't necessary, just a slowed progression.

 

As for the Soul thing, it was obvious from the beginning that anyone could use it, I'm just argueing on behalf of Niveus.

[Retech]

Lol, Retech.

 

I already said a nerf of what has been achieved isn't necessary, just a slowed progression.

 

As for the Soul thing, it was obvious from the beginning that anyone could use it, I'm just argueing on behalf of Niveus.

 

So how would I throw up my hands and quit from that? :P

[Retech]

Will we have a session today?

[Earth]

Retech, will you always ask for a session every day, even when you know it's probably not going to happen? (Christmass and such.)

[Retech]

There's a difference. I'm asking if there will be a session so I can schedule accordingly. :)