Would Runescape still be here without Fan-sites?

[Saru Inc]

No, because people would make them.

 

You have cause and effect mixed up. Runescape isn't popular because of its fansites. It has fansites because it's popular.

 

 

I disagree (to an extent)

 

Runescape originally had the popularity to create fan-sites, but in a hypothetical world in which they hadn't been made, would Runescape have achieved the longevity which it has?

 

That is a non-argument. We don't know what would happen in this "hypothetical" world because it doesn't exist. Its similar to the anthropomorphic argument for intelligent design.

 

 

And you've just brought to life the fan-site paradox.

 

Basically this is the premise:

 

 

If you went back in time and shot a fansite, the fansite would stop existing.

 

And since the fansite would not exist, the game could not exist.

 

And since the game couldn't exist, you could not exist to shoot the fansite.

 

And thus fansite would exist again, making you have to go back in time and shoot it.

 

 

 

-----

 

And no, I don't think RS would still be around. People quit the game, but hang on the forums and then see an update they like, an update they may not have noticed if they hadn't stuck to tif; and start playing again.

[green9090]

]If you went back in time and shot a fansite, the fansite would stop existing.

 

And since the fansite would not exist, somebody would make another one.

Fix'd.

[Obtaurian]

While TIF and RSC are better for clans than the RSOF, there are many great clans that operate solely on threads on the RSOF, so the suggestion that TIF and RSC somehow singlehandedly save Runescape by providing a place for clans to congregate is asinine. Sorry, but we're not that important in the grand scheme of things.

[Racheya]

I wouldn't be so pretentious to think that fansites hold up Runescape. I think that for people who already play RS and are active in a fansite, like me, it keeps them playing. If I wasn't a big part of this community already then I would probably have quit RS by now but, because I have my obligations here, I keep playing and stuck it out. Fansites never made me start playing but they do encourage me to KEEP playing.

[Quyneax]

I wouldn't be so pretentious to think that fansites hold up Runescape. I think that for people who already play RS and are active in a fansite, like me, it keeps them playing. If I wasn't a big part of this community already then I would probably have quit RS by now but, because I have my obligations here, I keep playing and stuck it out. Fansites never made me start playing but they do encourage me to KEEP playing.

This.

[amitoz]

It does add longevity to the life of RS. Many people discuss, talk, ponder, and strategically plan their skills all on Tip.it, amongst other fan-sites. If these weren't here, people would be no where near as excited for content. The sense of community itself is a force enough to drive it's intellectual peoples' minds to work and to plan, and get excited over things that are out and about. People like the people on these forums do make a difference.

[Kimberly]

Fansites have covered the rough edges and the not-so-obvious aspects of the game throughout its lifetime. While it's not necessary for the game to exist, it enriches the entire experience in my opinion. Of course, that's entirely subjective. There are those who will never use a fansite. But if you want the fastest answer and tons of variety and reliable info...you go to a fansite rather than trusting Eddy Schmuckface in the seers bank. And they will continue to facilitate overall experience so long as RuneScape's own forums and website services (like the Knowledge base and failed ingame menus) come up so very, very freaking short of expectations.

 

They owe fansites a great deal. And even now, I don't think they get the respect they deserve.

[stonewall337]

You know, I'm not forcing any of you to post here so if you think there is nothing to discuss, you can try not posting.

 

My main thought is that fan-sites (not just tip.it) are creating a sort of barrier which is stopping a lot of the higher level players from quitting. Without the multiple fan-sites, many players would have gotten bored without the competition or discussions that happen. I would say that fan-sites are responsible for keeping a large amount of RS players still playing.

They are saying that the topic is so ludicrous that there is nothing LOGICAL to post about. This is trying to talk about what doesn't exist: (Would the US still be around if ancient Greece had lasted another century) and the like.

 

Would YT still be around if people couldn't comment on videos might be another good topic to discuss [/sarcasm]

 

A better topic would be, would RS still be played as much without clan chat.

[Danqazmlp]

You know, I'm not forcing any of you to post here so if you think there is nothing to discuss, you can try not posting.

 

My main thought is that fan-sites (not just tip.it) are creating a sort of barrier which is stopping a lot of the higher level players from quitting. Without the multiple fan-sites, many players would have gotten bored without the competition or discussions that happen. I would say that fan-sites are responsible for keeping a large amount of RS players still playing.

They are saying that the topic is so ludicrous that there is nothing LOGICAL to post about. This is trying to talk about what doesn't exist: (Would the US still be around if ancient Greece had lasted another century) and the like.

 

Would YT still be around if people couldn't comment on videos might be another good topic to discuss [/sarcasm]

 

A better topic would be, would RS still be played as much without clan chat.

 

 

Then what about all the posts above yours? As I say, you are not forced to post if you don't want to understand the topic.

[Obtaurian]

Then what about all the posts above yours? As I say, you are not forced to post if you don't want to understand the topic.

 

No-one's agreeing with you, though. People are stating that fansites HELP Runescape, which is true, but you're the only person arguing that Runescape's success and longevity are a direct result of fansites, which is preposterous.

 

And that was a nice underhanded insult. :shame:

[Danqazmlp]

The point isn't to outright agree, but to discuss and have your own ideas on the direction. But as I say, if you don't want to discuss the topic at hand, you don't have to post.

[Obtaurian]

The point isn't to outright agree, but to discuss and have your own ideas on the direction. But as I say, if you don't want to discuss the topic at hand, you don't have to post.

 

But why? What is the point of this discussion? What can be discussed? I've only seen two opinions expressed in this thread: 1) PARADOX! and 2) Fansites help, but that's about it. What else do you want? Are you looking for someone to say "OH MY GOD I LOVE TIPIT IF IT WASNT FOR TIPIT I WOULD NOT PLAY RUN ESCAPE!!!"?

 

C'mon, Dan, you gotta admit -- you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel if you think this topic warrants any serious discussion.

[Danqazmlp]

A topic doesn't have to be serious. You know, that thing called fun? Fun in imagining how a different world would be.

 

The point is to discuss just how large the effect is. May I ask your opinion on it?

[Obtaurian]

A topic doesn't have to be serious. You know, that thing called fun? Fun in imagining how a different world would be.

 

The point is to discuss just how large the effect is. May I ask your opinion on it?

 

But a non-serious topic should still have some discussion value, no?

 

My opinion is that fansites/forums play two roles -- they fill information gaps that Jagex leaves wide open, and they bring like-minded people together. Without fansites, we'd use the RSOF and have a slightly more frustrating experience, but we'd still get our information. We'd have clan chats and clan threads on the RSOF for our community needs. In other words, nothing really changes.

 

However, if fansites didn't exist, someone would surely make one, blah blah blah, PARADOX.

 

I've just repeated what just about everyone else said. No discussion value if there are only two logical conclusions to draw and everyone's posting the same thing.

[Danqazmlp]

If you want, as I have said, you can not post if you think it has no value. It is you that are keeping the thread alive ;)

 

You may be able to get a little bit of a community through the RSOF and clan chat now, but would they have come into existence if people had not previously had fan-sites? Would the clans that championed them have lasted on the shambles RSOF from the past? I personally think they wouldn't. I don't think Runescape has the staying power over players without the ability to show off goals and achievements either of individuals or groups in picture format.

[Obtaurian]

You play Runescape because you need to show off? :huh: That's interesting. I play because it's fun, but maybe I'm just weird. Sorry, but it's pretty far-fetched to argue that fansites keep Runescape alive because people need a place to show off. Clans would have made their own forums (a forum is not a fansite) regardless of the existence of fansites.

 

Again, what are we supposed to discuss? You're really clutching at straws now (not that you weren't before, but you should probably quit while you're behind).

 

EDIT: Oh, and inb4 you argue that forums are fansites, in which case I will argue that IRC keeps entire clans running and active by itself, and IRC cannot be considered a fansite.

[Danqazmlp]

My word, you still don't get it do you? I'm not trying to win or lose, I'm trying to express to you that a thread doesn't have to have a definitive answer. A thread doesn't have to be totally serious or have a relevant point. But thank you for keeping this thread alive.

 

Many people play to 'show off'. I'm not saying they want to strut around thinking they are better than others. By show off, I mean that they like to let others know about their achievements and to show them. Take for example the blogscape forum here. Another example would be those who post in the screenshots sticky at the top of this forum. It is questionable whether many of these people would still play if they couldn't share their achievements and gameplay with others. Would they still have a drive to get said achievements?

 

Another branch, which would apply to me if I were still a player would be the lack of player contact in the current game. This is an MMO, but much of the game world is barren and empty due to things such as the G.E. For me if I were still playing, I would be driven to external fan sites just to talk to other players of the same game. Fan sites allow discussion with others about any aspect of the game. The RSOF unfortunately is too busy to allow for a good discussion with another person without being abruptly interrupted. The game would just feel cold and therefore bore me.

[Youmu]

You know, I'm starting to think if it wasn't for fansites, Runescape wouldn't be this popular.

 

It's because of sites like Tipit and the Wiki that Runescape is so popular today. That and people who spread about it irl.

 

So really, it's the FANS that keep it alive. Myself, I have personally never heard about Runescape until someone told me about it. I bet many others are in the same situation as well.

[stonewall337]

Then what about all the posts above yours? As I say, you are not forced to post if you don't want to understand the topic.

 

No-one's agreeing with you, though. People are stating that fansites HELP Runescape, which is true, but you're the only person arguing that Runescape's success and longevity are a direct result of fansites, which is preposterous.

 

And that was a nice underhanded insult. :shame:

This.

 

Danz, your argument is similar to the asinine suggestion made whenever someone says that a TIF Times was poorly written, namely "If you are going to criticize you must be willing to write your own article" or "Well why don't you write an article then?" They aren't valid arguments. I don't have to be an author to know when a book sucks. I don't have to make movies to know when a movie sucks. And also, I don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that the thesis of this topic is asinine. We can't know, and there is no way of even attempting to prove that RS would/wouldn't be around without fansites. Heck, I could try and say that fansites DRIVE people away, either 'cuz people get offended on forums, or a poorly written guide frustrates noobs to the point of leaving. Would that topic have any more discussion value, or logical backing, to be able to even TRY and reason it out? NO.

 

Its not that "I don't want to understand the topic". Its that the topic is simply ludicrous.

 

Sonikku. PROVE IT. Thats my point. If there weren't fansites, would there be something else? Would there be groups on skype, facebook, IRC, MSN? Would IRL friends play RS together? We don't know, and can't prove it, because there ARE fansites. What Danz is suggesting is basically "What would RS be like without the internet as we know it". If he is trying to say that fansites keep RS alive, that is the biggest exaggeration since Al Gore invented the internet.

 

Any time you get people together on a popular game, they find some way outside the game to interact. Some meet IRL. Some talk on IRC/skype/MSN. Some chat on facebook/myspace. How is one supposed to argue whether RS would be around without considering all that?

 

A much better topic would be "Would RS still be around if there were no ways outside the game whereby players could interact and share information". Much more detailed, and actually we can try to prove it one way or the other. I might not DG as much without Skype, for instance.

[Danqazmlp]

My word, have you no perception of a thread not made to be serious?

 

This is an opinionated thread where people should use their imaginations. People cannot prove anything which uses the imagination. It is an intelligent assumption. If I wasn't a mod I would be using much more descriptive terms but please, just chill. The hostility here is unbelievable from select users. It is now wonder general discussion is losing activity recently when a thread which is out of the box gets such a bad reception by the minority.

 

 

Heck, I could try and say that fansites DRIVE people away, either 'cuz people get offended on forums, or a poorly written guide frustrates noobs to the point of leaving. Would that topic have any more discussion value, or logical backing, to be able to even TRY and reason it out? NO.

 

I would argue adversely. There are people here who have admitted to staying in the game for as long as they have because of fan sites. That is part of the user base of Runescape. Therefore, the game would have less users if it wasn't for Fan sites. It is the extent of this the thread is about. Again, if you don't want to discuss that extent, but want to belittle the thread on a whole, you may as well not post (although there is not much chance in that happening is there?)

[Kimberly]

I think the condescension in this topic is pretty disgusting. From all sides.

 

Lordy...

[stonewall337]

My word, have you no perception of a thread not made to be serious?

 

This is an opinionated thread where people should use their imaginations. People cannot prove anything which uses the imagination. It is an intelligent assumption. If I wasn't a mod I would be using much more descriptive terms but please, just chill. The hostility here is unbelievable from select users. It is now wonder general discussion is losing activity recently when a thread which is out of the box gets such a bad reception by the minority.

 

 

Heck, I could try and say that fansites DRIVE people away, either 'cuz people get offended on forums, or a poorly written guide frustrates noobs to the point of leaving. Would that topic have any more discussion value, or logical backing, to be able to even TRY and reason it out? NO.

 

I would argue adversely. There are people here who have admitted to staying in the game for as long as they have because of fan sites. That is part of the user base of Runescape. Therefore, the game would have less users if it wasn't for Fan sites. It is the extent of this the thread is about. Again, if you don't want to discuss that extent, but want to belittle the thread on a whole, you may as well not post (although there is not much chance in that happening is there?)

 

About as much chance as you posting a reasoned argument against what I had to say, I s'pose.

 

However, if we are to delve into the realms of the asinine, I'd have to say yes. No clue as to the size, doubt it'd matter much, but it sure as hell isn't TIF that keeps my playing RS.

 

This topic could have merit, you just need to actually say what you are trying to get at in a thought-out way. Do you mean if there were no none-external (Outside RS) peer to peer contact, or do you just mean no forums, or do you mean just no fansites, but forums? Do you mean no clans, as those aren't fansites? What do you mean? Without knowing that, everyone will be basing their answer on different thoughts, one might think "ok, that means no fansites, but forums and clans" Others "Ok no fansites or forums, no clans, but then they'd move to IRC and have far more YT or audio guides".

 

This is why, in debate, one needs to have a very well thought out resolution, or else confusion ensues. Example, the resolution "Resolved: The United States Gov't should be less involved in people's daily lives" would be horrendous. What does it mean? A better resolution would be "Resolved: The U.S Gov't should in no instance be able to see a U.S citizen's medical records without either requesting gov't aid in medical care, in any form, or by said citizen's express permission, or a court issued warrent" That actually gives the grounds for what you are trying to talk about!

[Bladewing]

my playing RS is what keeps me at TIF, not vice versa.

[Danqazmlp]

 

However, if we are to delve into the realms of the asinine, I'd have to say yes. No clue as to the size, doubt it'd matter much, but it sure as hell isn't TIF that keeps my playing RS.

 

 

And that's all we needed.

 

This isn't a debate, there is no need to make it one. You need to relax and just let things go. It doesn't matter about the details as this isn't a serious thread. Instead of questioning the question, answer it to the best of your ability.

 

For you then, fan-sites don't lead to more longevity for Runescape. However, for many it seems it does. Would the game therefore be any different then without those players who wouldn't be playing without the fan-sites?

[Kimberly]

This isn't a debate, there is no need to make it one. It doesn't matter about the details as this isn't a serious thread.

 

If this wasn't a board for discussion and debating then it'd be Rate This! with no post count. If this wasn't a serious topic, it'd be in Forum Games or Questionnaires. While we can take a casual approach to it, if you have an opinion that goes against the grain of the majority, expect to debate it or let it go yourself. It has absolutely nothing to do with 'having fun'. It's just how people engage with each other.

 

However, for many it seems it does.

 

To give an example to the contrary, I'd say nearly all of those who post in Off Topic have quit the game and stay for the community instead, not because of the game.

 

How a fansite affects your devotion to the game differs from person to person. But there is a pretty strong portion of the population that have never touched a fansite in their life and they still play.

 

EDIT: Danq, get out of anonymous mode this instant. >:[