Skilling in Pro DG

[TheAncient]

Skilling has always been looked down upon by pro dungeoneers. In general, skilling slows down a team by slowing down response times to GD's. This causes teammates to waste prayer and food, possibly die, and slows down the time it takes to finish a GD. One huge reason why W148 and W117 are so slow is because when everyone runs out of food, people just stand around and do basically nothing for fear of death.

 

A lot of the rewards from skilling - mainly food - can come from drops from GD monsters. This is why fishing and cooking are almost never worth the time.

 

However, there is still room for skilling during a dungeon, albeit a very small role. In the first ~10 minutes of a floor, if there's only one way to go and it's not a GD (i.e. a slow puzzle door or something) and your gate is free, this leaves a golden opportunity for a few seconds of skilling. Once the floor becomes more complicated, time is MUCH better spent gating other doors and helping the keyer.

 

So, I raise question 1: What skills do you think are worth doing, in these brief moments of skilling time?

 

My perm team and I talked about this and we agreed on the following:

Making cosmics/laws if you're out of them > Mining/making ragers > (making melee pots/farming, hunting/crafting armor IF you have a hex, looting coin piles / thieving chests for altar money) >NOTHING else is worth doing, except maybe like fishing if there's like ABSOLUTELY nothing to do.

 

Question 2: How can you optimize skilling so that it takes the least time possible?

GD's take a much higher priority than any skilling, so if there are any outsanding GD's whatever skilling you're doing should be dropped ASAP so that you can go to the GD. This is problematic because skilling often takes time, and it's annoying to be interrupted in the middle of skilling. Therefore, if you are to skill, you will have to optimize it such that you can minimize these interruptions.

 

One important way to speed up skilling processes is to gate skilling locations. Early on when everything is close to home, there is less of a need for members of the team to gate doors for the keyer. In these cases, gates are better placed mainly at home teleport. This allows you access to all of the skilling materials at base much quicker, since home teleport takes at least 5 seconds to fully activate, and you must be out of combat. Gates can also be placed at farming patches or ore.

 

Let's take for example farming and potionmaking. There are a lot of ways this system can be optimized. For one, if there are any water runes at the start table, they can be picked up. Along with astrals and a fire staff (which anyone with a CSB should have), you can use these to cast humidify, filling all water filled vials. AFAIK this takes at most 2 game ticks for all vials at once, which is MUCH faster than the 4-5 game ticks per vial at the water source at home.

 

The smuggler should also be gated immediately after making cosmics. This way, any additional money (~13K) found after the first 1-2 GD's can immediately be used to buy a lycopus potion, 2 vials, 2-3 claws, and 1 red moss. If you are low on laws/cosmics, gating HT also lets you make more law/cosmics with any additional ess you find in the first few GD's. Once a GD is found with a farming patch, the lycopus should be planted right as the GD starts so that it'll be finished growing as you are done with the GD. Then, in the 2-3 seconds of downtime between GD's, strong melees and unf lycs can be made. Unf winter's grips should also be made, if you pick up any.

 

This way, if any pot doors come up (in particular, gatherer's, naturalists, or artisan; survivalist requires whiskey which you can also pick up), the relevant pot can basically be instantly made. In addition, you'll have 1 strong melee for yourself and hopefully 1-2 you can share with teammates (one unf lycopus should always be kept in the inventory in case of a skill door).

 

I've had moderate success with this method. It takes a lot of discipline not to skill during GD's, though. But I've very consistently been getting berserker whenever I do this, suggesting the time investment may be worth it. I also get berserker a lot normally though so it's hard to say. It's really nice though that any skill door is basically not a problem for teams I'm on since I can make the pot in 2-3 seconds when it takes someone else at least 30 seconds.

[muggiwhplar]

Well as someone who doesn't take efficiency too seriously in dungeons but still goes decently fast, I usually stop to mine any katagon+ ores along the way and store them in the BoB, as well as any blue crabs. Whenever I stop by base I drop it all off or make katagon+ armor for the whole team... it's amazing how little food you need for bosses like the nightgazer if you're wearing a full set of armor.

[green9090]

Well as someone who doesn't take efficiency too seriously in dungeons but still goes decently fast, I usually stop to mine any katagon+ ores along the way and store them in the BoB, as well as any blue crabs. Whenever I stop by base I drop it all off or make katagon+ armor for the whole team... it's amazing how little food you need for bosses like the nightgazer if you're wearing a full set of armor.

Lol

[Fresi]

basicly i mine gorro at hig lvl duns, and make gather items needed for altar at home if needed. law runes+ cosmic is obvious, sometimes i also do cures if i got many ess to spare.

i fish cawes only if im almost out of food and the others don't share the drops, witch happens alot sadly..

99 dun btw :) geting 90 mining before i continue for 120 :D 3 more mining lvls :)

[D Jay99]

At the start of floors I usually cut 2 ent logs and make traps, put them at the next 2 t9 dinos I find for armour. Also mine 4 gorg ores/dung, for gorg baxe and bloodragers. I buy lyco seeds when I'm at base for pray recharge and plant in somewhere (gate a patch if nothing else), make 2 range pots and drop rest at base (its indeed really nice when you can do pot doors instantly). If I'm short on food when boss I usually buy it instead of fishing. So yeah it's only useful to a certain extent, but it does help. And I love your tip on humidify never realised that.

[ghjkl]

y make gorg baxe

[pulli23]

I don't own a shadowhood.. So if someobdy rushes through rooms and I follow I'll take unnecessary hits..

 

But rather than waiting untill the keyer discovers a puzzle or a gd, I'm going to fish (or mine). Then when the keyer calls for help I can be there (thanks to the ggs) in less than a second anyways - and afterr cleaning the room & helping if needed with the puzzle I'll gate back to the fish spot. Why should I skill?

 

Also if there is an abundance of food (in base or in inventories) people start playing much more relaxed.. They'll kiill first before attacking the lootpiles, they'll be more willing to share/heal others in case of emergencies... It might take 10 minutes longer, but the dungeon becomes more relaxed!

[ghjkl]

I don't own a shadowhood.. So if someobdy rushes through rooms and I follow I'll take unnecessary hits..

 

But rather than waiting untill the keyer discovers a puzzle or a gd, I'm going to fish (or mine). Then when the keyer calls for help I can be there (thanks to the ggs) in less than a second anyways - and afterr cleaning the room & helping if needed with the puzzle I'll gate back to the fish spot. Why should I skill?

 

Also if there is an abundance of food (in base or in inventories) people start playing much more relaxed.. They'll kiill first before attacking the lootpiles, they'll be more willing to share/heal others in case of emergencies... It might take 10 minutes longer, but the dungeon becomes more relaxed!

so all you're saying is that you need the ggs to be there to be useful

you don't go you're own route and open doors without keyer telling you

[pulli23]

I don't own a shadowhood.. So if someobdy rushes through rooms and I follow I'll take unnecessary hits..

 

But rather than waiting untill the keyer discovers a puzzle or a gd, I'm going to fish (or mine). Then when the keyer calls for help I can be there (thanks to the ggs) in less than a second anyways - and afterr cleaning the room & helping if needed with the puzzle I'll gate back to the fish spot. Why should I skill?

 

Also if there is an abundance of food (in base or in inventories) people start playing much more relaxed.. They'll kiill first before attacking the lootpiles, they'll be more willing to share/heal others in case of emergencies... It might take 10 minutes longer, but the dungeon becomes more relaxed!

so all you're saying is that you need the ggs to be there to be useful

you don't go you're own route and open doors without keyer telling you

yes I don't. People who walk their own route are so often annoying.. then they start complain they don't have food & need help..

[TheAncient]

yes I don't. People who walk their own route are so often annoying.. then they start complain they don't have food & need help..

 

lol. 45min+ dungs ftw, i guess?

 

anyway yeah, lol at the skilling suggested so far...

[green9090]

I don't own a shadowhood.. So if someobdy rushes through rooms and I follow I'll take unnecessary hits..

 

But rather than waiting untill the keyer discovers a puzzle or a gd, I'm going to fish (or mine). Then when the keyer calls for help I can be there (thanks to the ggs) in less than a second anyways - and afterr cleaning the room & helping if needed with the puzzle I'll gate back to the fish spot. Why should I skill?

 

Also if there is an abundance of food (in base or in inventories) people start playing much more relaxed.. They'll kiill first before attacking the lootpiles, they'll be more willing to share/heal others in case of emergencies... It might take 10 minutes longer, but the dungeon becomes more relaxed!

so all you're saying is that you need the ggs to be there to be useful

you don't go you're own route and open doors without keyer telling you

yes I don't. People who walk their own route are so often annoying.. then they start complain they don't have food & need help..

Wow.

 

This sort of thing is why I wish it was possible to get decent solo exp. People just sit around not helping and even go so far as to be annoyed by people who aren't lazy.

[Golvellius]

You gave up fishing/cooking.

You never made armour to begin with.

Now your into making pots.

LOL

[All_Is_Great]

Did you make this thread to laugh at all the people who don't dungeoneer like you do?

 

But, to contribute, if there was an altar very close to the base, I usually build either a farming patch or a range.

The farming patch is very convenient because it means I don't have to gs another patch, and the range burns ALOT less food with even a t4 log. My FM levels and cooking levels aren't that high to begin with.

 

Of course, that is under the assumption the altar is close.

[muggiwhplar]

yes I don't. People who walk their own route are so often annoying.. then they start complain they don't have food & need help..

 

lol. 45min+ dungs ftw, i guess?

 

anyway yeah, lol at the skilling suggested so far...

 

Sseli, did you honestly expect to get innovative ideas from people on this forum whom you haven't already consulted?

[Matt_Marche]

You've basically covered it all Ancient. There's not much more we could do (Fletch? Why?) considering we use Ores for Ragers, [rarely] fish for food, and runes for transportation. Things like theiving chests aren't really skilling anyways

[ghjkl]

I key 90% of the dungs and usually flame people for skilling, thus getting me kicked a lot.

If you fish and there's not that much food I really wont complain about it that much, but anytime I see any sort of bar or armour made I will flame you hard.

 

Only skilling that I can do while keying is looting chests and making pots/altar. If I trust someone on the team and the team isn't full of idiots, I'll usually let someone else do that stuff so I can have time to actually do, you know, KEYING. But more than once I put altar money on gt and told someone to make only to find them buying ores to make armour or buying fish. And way more often I ask for a pot to be made and by the time we finished the dung the pot isn't made and we are missing tons of bonus room exp, and there's no way I'm going to wait 2 minutes for the pot to be made after the boss is dead. So when I'm keying for idiots I usually do the necessary skilling myself.

 

And 50% of the time with idiots on team, I get berserker keying. All getting berserker means is that you didn't doorstand waiting for someone to tank or camp death pile instead of moving to next monster as soon as possible.

 

Btw golv, I don't get the trolling in your post. Can you please elaborate further?

[TheAncient]

yes I don't. People who walk their own route are so often annoying.. then they start complain they don't have food & need help..

 

lol. 45min+ dungs ftw, i guess?

 

anyway yeah, lol at the skilling suggested so far...

 

Sseli, did you honestly expect to get innovative ideas from people on this forum whom you haven't already consulted?

 

well yeah, i only talk to my perm team about dg lol. there are a lot of good dg'ers here, why not consult them? if there's any way to make dging more optimal than it's worth talking about it.

 

But, to contribute, if there was an altar very close to the base, I usually build either a farming patch or a range.

The farming patch is very convenient because it means I don't have to gs another patch, and the range burns ALOT less food with even a t4 log. My FM levels and cooking levels aren't that high to begin with.

 

idk, i'd do this but with a farm patch (i still think cooking/fishing is a waste); but smithing the bars is SO slow so i don't think it's worth it. plus it's much better to use patches that you're already at (in GD's) than have to HT every time

 

You gave up fishing/cooking.

You never made armour to begin with.

Now your into making pots.

LOL

 

wat

[pulli23]

Really dungeoneering is a team sport..

 

Why should you even think about going alone?

 

You'll have to help yourself by helping others.. Not by soloing large parts of the dungeon!

[ghjkl]

That is basically what a keyer does.

The only place you need the team is in gds/monos/levers/mime/puzzle rooms with lots of monsters in it.

[green9090]

Really dungeoneering is a team sport..

 

Why should you even think about going alone?

 

You'll have to help yourself by helping others.. Not by soloing large parts of the dungeon!

Please be trolling.

[TheAncient]

Really dungeoneering is a team sport..

 

Why should you even think about going alone?

 

You'll have to help yourself by helping others.. Not by soloing large parts of the dungeon!

 

it really depends. i can understand your line of reasoning, but experience says otherwise.

 

but in cases where there's a lot of skill doors you can do, or if you're at a gd which you're specialized against (e.g. you have csb and there's a lot of warriors, or you have hex and there's a lot of mages), it's definitely worth it to solo. or if you're near a denk there's no point in bringing the whole team over to you just so that you can reach a dead end and then have to tele back.

 

also in 90% of cases on w117/148 people run out of food when soloing because they fail at praying, stand around, or don't use gatestones properly. in addition 100+ dgers usually have plate, in which case you basically don't need food for 80% of rooms.

 

teamwork is basically nonexistent in dg if you don't already know the existing methodology (i.e. listening to keyer>running keys/paths you have gated>soloing specialized puzzles>GD's>gating and exploring doors>skilling etc)...

on 148/117 you're with randoms every time so it's hard to establish any real rapport or team strategy; everyone is doing their own thing.

[pulli23]

I'm not talking once you're half way.. I'm talking about the time when you just discovered that 1 challenge door, and you've got 3-4 open ends..

 

Or the time when you have only 2-3 open ends left and think about preparing for the boss.

[Myweponsg00d]

wtfamireading.jpg

 

Man I seriously doubt that you are gonna get much worthwhile in this thread...You have broken this minigame down to how many game ticks skills take...I don't even know wtf a game tick is. I really dont think most people play this game on your level. From the sounds of it, you have thought about this enough. I dont think anyone will have any ideas for you.

[TheAncient]

I'm not talking once you're half way.. I'm talking about the time when you just discovered that 1 challenge door, and you've got 3-4 open ends..

 

Or the time when you have only 2-3 open ends left and think about preparing for the boss.

 

i mean still, if a nonkeyer can solo and find a few denks to save the keyer like 20 seconds it's more than worth it. let alone gate a new branching path so that the keyer doesn't have to gate it and bring ggs there himself.

 

wtfamireading.jpg

 

Man I seriously doubt that you are gonna get much worthwhile in this thread...You have broken this minigame down to how many game ticks skills take...I don't even know wtf a game tick is. I really dont think most people play this game on your level. From the sounds of it, you have thought about this enough. I dont think anyone will have any ideas for you.

 

probably true but what's the hurt in trying :P discussion is healthy

[pulli23]

I'm not talking once you're half way.. I'm talking about the time when you just discovered that 1 challenge door, and you've got 3-4 open ends..

 

Or the time when you have only 2-3 open ends left and think about preparing for the boss.

 

i mean still, if a nonkeyer can solo and find a few denks to save the keyer like 20 seconds it's more than worth it. let alone gate a new branching path so that the keyer doesn't have to gate it and bring ggs there himself.

You're talking about w117 and yet saying this?

 

I once did this.. And had to talk to the keyer to drop his ggs (instead of key, I knew there was like 1/4th dungeon behind the door) for at least 3 minutes.... Never going to do that again.

 

Besides fishing takes what? 1 second a fish? That's faster food than any other method.