Primal - Whats the point?

[SirIzenhime]

Just because no one uses Rune Full helms in P2P, they should be taken out of the game?

 

That's not what he was talking about at all, but ok :rolleyes:

[Wkw]

Just because no one uses Rune Full helms in P2P, they should be taken out of the game?

 

Alright, here is the point

(.)

 

Now, look to the south west, walk about five thousand meters, and look down. Thats where you hit.

You missed the point

 

Nobody in p2p uses rune helms because there is better. Also, anyone can get a rune helm, and you don't need to decide weather or not you want a godsword or a helmet.

As I said, you missed the point

[Sir_Squab]

There were two great solutions to this problem:

 

First, create a "Dungeoneering Bank" with a limited set-up: You can only deposit and withdraw items at the end of dungeon (so no trading between players). If you deposit a "bound" item, it gets stored as unbound. You can then withdraw items you like and "bind" them, then exit to the next level with your new bind set-up. This means you can change your stance level by level (more fun than just staying melee or range the last 90 million XP from 99 to 120). Jagex just puts limits of 1 for armor/weapons and 125 for runes/ammo.

 

Second, give all items a "bind count", chest pieces count as 5, weapons count as 4, legs count as 3, head is 2, etc. Your bind count starts at 5, then becomes 10 at dng 50, 15 at dng 99 and then 20 dng 120. This mixed with the "bank" idea above allows players more flexibility on how they start a dungeon.

 

I think we need both ideas; also, there'd be some flexibility with the bind count; SSH does not count as two lol. Personally, I think it should still more or less allow the same bound item set (weapon at 1-49, weapon + hood/plate at 50-99, etc)

 

We can dream...

[TheAncient]

i bind a primal pickaxe.

it lets me mine ore faster and more effectively.

i can get multiple ore per rock.

sometimes i get 2 ore, that's very good.

it allows me to make armor.

so that i can dungeon sweep.

and tank zombie axe throwers.

i bound it over a hood, because hoods are junk for efficiency clows.

[Triquos]

Yeah I never understood it at all. I thought the binds originally would be something like this:

 

Level 1 - 1st bind

level 20 - 2nd bind

level 40 - 3rd bind

level 60 - 4th bind

level 80 - 5th bind

level 100 - 6th bind

level 120 - 7th bind

 

Binds depending on skill levels:

 

level 99 woodcut - primal hatchet bindable

level 99 mining - primal pickaxe bindable

 

That's how I think it SHOULD work. But even so, it would not make me interested in Dungeoneering still XD

[la la la]

i bind a primal pickaxe.

it lets me mine ore faster and more effectively.

i can get multiple ore per rock.

sometimes i get 2 ore, that's very good.

it allows me to make armor.

so that i can dungeon sweep.

and tank zombie axe throwers.

i bound it over a hood, because hoods are junk for efficiency clows.

thankfully monoliths dont spawn zombie axe throwers. i see one of those 133 zombie axe throwers and im out

[Golvellius]

i bind a primal pickaxe.

it lets me mine ore faster and more effectively.

i can get multiple ore per rock.

Cool, that might be my 4th bind if I never find a hex bow.

With my t10 gatherer/artisan I'm usually ready to sweep in 2-3 ores.

 

i bound it over a hood, because hoods are junk for efficiency clowNs.

No doubt, but I kept my hood so I can get to the ore easier.

[SirIzenhime]

i bind a primal pickaxe.

it lets me mine ore faster and more effectively.

i can get multiple ore per rock.

sometimes i get 2 ore, that's very good.

it allows me to make armor.

so that i can dungeon sweep.

and tank zombie axe throwers.

i bound it over a hood, because hoods are junk for efficiency clows.

 

You know what's funny....that's probably exactly what Jagex thought people would do.

Also...golv has a good point....IF you aren't a dungeon rusher. Some people like to take their time and actually kill monsters. For those people, what golvellius said holds a lot of truth. Wearing a plate and legs, very few monsters will deal significant damage to you other then mages. So once you have that on, you simply pray magic. The only things that cause real trouble are shades. People seem to be under this impression that armor doesn't do any good, high level monsters wll still tear through you....FALSE, have you guys even had anything more then a platebody on? The reason it doesn't feel like it does much is because ONLY a platebody isn't good enough protection. Once you add legs, and maybe a helm, you start noticing a huge difference.

 

Now, obviously for those rushing to get dungeons done faster for dungeoneering xp, a hood is better. But there are people out there that like to take their time in dungeons, they like to make armor and tank through everything. I also lol'ed at your "sometimes i get 2 ore, that's very good"....2 ore is not very good, and unless you're using something worse then fractite, 3-4 is normal (without gatherer). I can understand why you wouldn't know, since you don't mine much during your dungeons since you're rushing.

 

In the team I go with, we like to make armor, it's why I got 99 smithing and am getting 90 mining (eventually :P). I want to be able to make promethieum for the team I go with. Oh, and don't cringe up and tell me it's people like me that make 117 and 148 bad...I don't dungeon there, I only dung with friends who enjoy dunging the same way I do. We also have a player who is 94 crafting, who likes to make magic armor for us (we'd make range armor, but everyone has nooby hunter :P)

 

And we still manage to finish our dungeons around 40 minutes, never more then an hour. That's better then the average dung team. Oh...and just to let you know...the pro rushers with 105+ dungeoneering....aren't an average dung team, so don't even try that. W148 is an average dung team. They're only deemed poor because of the ideals of the "pro" dungers....the sad thing is, they'll never learn to be pro either, they started training too late, they're considered too low level to be pro now, and by the time they do get to the "pro" levels, they still have no idea how to rush properly. So they go in one "pro" team, don't do it right....and get instantly black listed because they suck. But hey...what can ya do about it?

 

Anyways, this really isn't the point of this thread, the point of this thread is to ask why jagex spent so much time developing armor and weapons that nobody uses. The answer is simple....because they thought people would. They didn't foresee everyone wearing hoods, and maybe a platebody when they got high enough in level. They though people would specialize more. That is why so much effort was put into the weapons and armors of this skill, it's just people found out a faster way to go through dungeons.

[J35u5_M4]

It isn't useful if you can only use one piece of it.

Many people with 120 dungeoneering bind primal 2h, plate and legs. (Please don't use the 'but most players...' card) Im pretty sure that's more than 1. Low level skillers bind primal pick and hatchet, so those items are being used, not just as much as the most popular ones. And I've seen primal maul being used by pures who have low attack level.

 

Not all of them are useful though, but I don't really see it as a problem.

 

I thought at 120 Dung the best was Hood, Primal Plate, Primal 2h and Hexhunter Bow?, I'd bind the platelegs if I didn't have a hex though

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I thought at 120 Dung the best was Hood, Primal Plate, Primal 2h and Hexhunter Bow?, I'd bind the platelegs if I didn't have a hex though

A lot of people dislike hexhunters.

 

and having more than 2, MAYBE 3 hexhunters on a team is not ideal.

Keyers don't have much use for hexhunters either.

 

primal plate and hexhunter bow don't mesh well either.

If you're not keying, sagittarian body works way better with hexhunter bow.

+33 ranged attack ontop of hexhunter bow attack bonus, is absolutely huge.

and if you're not keying, pray range with +100 magic def from sag body is generally better (hexhunter gives some magic D too)

 

some high lvl keyers have broken hexhunter binds in favor of primal plate, platelegs, hood, 2h/baxe, and surgebox/laws

[TheAncient]

But Izenheim, that's not a fair comparison because you're comparing people who are totally uncoordinated (randoms in 148) to people who are coordinated. Put a group of 148ers that know each other well and have a general idea what to do, and 40 minutes really is not a fantastic time.

 

When comparing anything, you always must consider the tradeoff and not just the goods alone or the bads alone. Armor is helpful - I agree - but not for the amount of time it takes. When everything is running smoothly, there really should be no time for you to make armor. And even if you do have time, it'd be much better spent farming lycs or making ragers.

 

Moreover, making armor does not increase your kill time for anything. There is no guarentee that the time you invest in making armor will pay for itself. Of course, a lot of people slow down / stop moving if they have no food, but ideally food is not an issue. In a coordinated team where people don't randomly go off soloing hard GD's, it isn't too hard to survive. With a plate bind you can do an entire floor (excluding boss) probably with 10 or so salves and SS flash.

 

It's not about rushing, either. There are people who RUSH - and I mean like 20 minute floors - and yeah that's both fun and stressful. 30 minutes is a very reasonable pace for a floor; the only person doing much "rushing" is the keyer. If you call teleporting to GD's stressful, then you should probably play a lower APM game like chess.

 

Of course, if you like making armor just for the heck of it, fine. You're slowing down the team but if the team is fine with it, more power to you. But at least be smart about making it. Make it when there are no outsanding GD's, or if you're one-wayed at a skill door. Don't just blindly make armor while the rest of your team needs you.

[SirIzenhime]

It is to fair to compare with randoms in 148...because that's all people get.

Also, if you really read my post, you would know my message was nothing about armor being "needed". I never said wearing full promethieum speeds up kills, I never said it was efficient to do, I never said it was the best way to spend free time in dungeons, so those points are unnecessary and provide nothing new to me.

 

Average floor takes 1hour + for the Average player....average players are the ones dunging on 148. Average players ARE NOT the people who have formed perm teams, are perfectly coordinated with each other, and can consistently do floors in 40 minutes or less. 40 minutes IS a fantastic time when you compare it to the average dunger, especially when that 40 minutes is from a team who does skilling (and I don't mean farming/summoning as skill, I'm talking collecting ores...textiles...branches.)

 

All you've done is tell me things I already know, while throwing in your own view about what's "average", which I happen to disagree with.

[TheAncient]

It is to fair to compare with randoms in 148...because that's all people get.

Also, if you really read my post, you would know my message was nothing about armor being "needed". I never said wearing full promethieum speeds up kills, I never said it was efficient to do, I never said it was the best way to spend free time in dungeons, so those points are unnecessary and provide nothing new to me.

 

Average floor takes 1hour + for the Average player....average players are the ones dunging on 148. Average players ARE NOT the people who have formed perm teams, are perfectly coordinated with each other, and can consistently do floors in 40 minutes or less. 40 minutes IS a fantastic time when you compare it to the average dunger, especially when that 40 minutes is from a team who does skilling (and I don't mean farming/summoning as skill, I'm talking collecting ores...textiles...branches.)

 

All you've done is tell me things I already know, while throwing in your own view about what's "average", which I happen to disagree with.

 

I'm not only taking to you, lol - my post was partly directed to people supporting armor making. No need to be defensive.

 

And lol @ you collecting textiles and branches. I really have nothing to say. I can't tell if you're making stormbringers or magic armor because both are equally as useless. And what are you doing with branches? Cooking? Fletching bows?

[SirIzenhime]

It is to fair to compare with randoms in 148...because that's all people get.

Also, if you really read my post, you would know my message was nothing about armor being "needed". I never said wearing full promethieum speeds up kills, I never said it was efficient to do, I never said it was the best way to spend free time in dungeons, so those points are unnecessary and provide nothing new to me.

 

Average floor takes 1hour + for the Average player....average players are the ones dunging on 148. Average players ARE NOT the people who have formed perm teams, are perfectly coordinated with each other, and can consistently do floors in 40 minutes or less. 40 minutes IS a fantastic time when you compare it to the average dunger, especially when that 40 minutes is from a team who does skilling (and I don't mean farming/summoning as skill, I'm talking collecting ores...textiles...branches.)

 

All you've done is tell me things I already know, while throwing in your own view about what's "average", which I happen to disagree with.

 

I'm not only taking to you, lol - my post was partly directed to people supporting armor making. No need to be defensive.

 

And lol @ you collecting textiles and branches. I really have nothing to say. I can't tell if you're making stormbringers or magic armor because both are equally as useless. And what are you doing with branches? Cooking? Fletching bows?

 

Magic armor for bosses, we just collect it until we know what boss we got. The Branches are for cooking if we need it, arrows for people who don't have any bound, and bows if we get a ranging boss.

Again...I already know it's "useless", that's nothing new to me. I never said people should go around picking plants for magic. It's just what me and the team I dung with find fun. Don't act like I'm an idiot for doing it, because every reason you have for thinking it's stupid, I'll already have known about. Yes, magic armor is basically useless, yes it is unnecessary to use, yes it takes minutes worth to collect and craft it all. But guess what....I don't care, neither does my team, it's what we've done together since we've all been the level 50's range, it's how we'll keep doing it.

 

Magic armor and branches isn't even a part of my point anyways.

[Logdotzip]

Supposedly sometime next month, and I'm fairly certain next week, Jagex is adding a master quest that's going to allow a fifth bind at 65 dung, making some gear more viable to hold onto.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Supposedly sometime next month, and I'm fairly certain next week, Jagex is adding a master quest that's going to allow a fifth bind at 65 dung, making some gear more viable to hold onto.

Who wut were veng qfc?

[Logdotzip]

Supposedly sometime next month, and I'm fairly certain next week, Jagex is adding a master quest that's going to allow a fifth bind at 65 dung, making some gear more viable to hold onto.

Who wut were veng qfc?

 

To my knowledge it's not been posted anywhere. I have my resources though lol. I had to piece a few missing bits together myself to come up with a plausible conclusion but I am almost certain next month features a dung quest with an additional bind as a reward, with 65 dung needed.

[green9090]

Supposedly sometime next month, and I'm fairly certain next week, Jagex is adding a master quest that's going to allow a fifth bind at 65 dung, making some gear more viable to hold onto.

Who wut were veng qfc?

 

To my knowledge it's not been posted anywhere. I have my resources though lol. I had to piece a few missing bits together myself to come up with a plausible conclusion but I am almost certain next month features a dung quest with an additional bind as a reward, with 65 dung needed.

...

You have some super secret information source that you're too cool to tell the rest of us about? Yeah, I'm calling troll.

[SirIzenhime]

I don't know about any rewards from the quest, but I do remember somebody posting screenshots in the SS thread about the next mahjarat quest possibly coming out next month, one of the requirements is 65 dungeoneering

[Logdotzip]

Supposedly sometime next month, and I'm fairly certain next week, Jagex is adding a master quest that's going to allow a fifth bind at 65 dung, making some gear more viable to hold onto.

Who wut were veng qfc?

 

To my knowledge it's not been posted anywhere. I have my resources though lol. I had to piece a few missing bits together myself to come up with a plausible conclusion but I am almost certain next month features a dung quest with an additional bind as a reward, with 65 dung needed.

...

You have some super secret information source that you're too cool to tell the rest of us about? Yeah, I'm calling troll.

 

 

Because I've trolled about every other bit of information I've ever spoken about, correct? Or wait, I could have sworn it was me who told everyone about Free Trade etc almost a week beforehand, and if I also recall right, you and a solid 30 others berated me for it, you specifically calling me gullible. I have access to High Level forums, Player Moderator forums, audio logs from RuneFest, and countless other stupid things. Just because I'm not at liberty to discuss which Jmods and Maxed players with connections have loose lips doesn't mean the things I say are trolls. You're entitled to your own opinion, fine, but if the update does come out, maybe you should learn to keep it to yourself as well.

[TheAncient]

inb4 logdot invokes FT chat

 

o wait 2 late

 

Again...I already know it's "useless", that's nothing new to me. I never said people should go around picking plants for magic. It's just what me and the team I dung with find fun. Don't act like I'm an idiot for doing it, because every reason you have for thinking it's stupid, I'll already have known about. Yes, magic armor is basically useless, yes it is unnecessary to use, yes it takes minutes worth to collect and craft it all. But guess what....I don't care, neither does my team, it's what we've done together since we've all been the level 50's range, it's how we'll keep doing it.

 

Like I said, as long as you realize fully that what ur doing is suboptimal, whatever, I'll still laugh at you but I won't really care. Just don't encourage others to do the same. It sounds like you aren't, so fine

[jettrider]

@The Ancient: Chess can be just as stressful as a 20 minute dungeon depending on time limits :)

 

@Branches: if the team has no food the priority is to fish first then find branches to cook it on. Also if you are on the Occult floors it is ok to chop t10 wood when jobless to prepare for a possible Necrolord (remember blood ragers are useless on it). Cant think of many other times but those are 2 where it can be done.

 

@Logdotzip: that would be interesting, dung is completely dead atm so that might bring it back a bit. Also, to defend yourself, just say you have definitive but confidential sources rather than saying "I'm pretty sure," then you avoid flames + get the credit :D

[Logdotzip]

I'm not looking for credit, I'm just trying to inform. Some people here seem to think I got out of my way to try and make s*** up. Not the case.

 

 

OT I guess what would be a good 5th bind, assuming there were 5? More defense?

[TheAncient]

The problem is that even when you provide reasonable (not necessarily concrete) evidence, often people are too stubborn to believe it. I think logdot has made a fair effort in trying to cite sources in the past and people didn't really believe him, so I can understand where he's coming from.

 

Yea, chess is probably more stressful in terms of brainpower, youre right... suddenly i'm remembering how nerve wracking blitz and some long games were

 

Viable 4th binds:

Cat staff

Hex

Blood Neck

Platelegs + range top

Gaunts/Boots

Normal sagg shortbow, primal spear, or ;primal rapier, possibly (good for dogs; shortbow for sniping)

[SirIzenhime]

Logdot...how do you have access to the high level forums?

 

 

I'll still laugh at you but I won't really care

I'm curious as to why.