Primal - Whats the point?

[Grimy_Bunyip]

even at 120 dung i wont bind a single primal piece

prim plate is better than blood neck

every high level dunger i've been with has said that

chun is just an idiot and trolling

I'd say a sag body is better if you're not keying and you have a hex.

blood neck is definitely under estimated. You really don't need any defense if you're not keying.

 

but yeah melee armor is always best if keying.

[ghjkl]

even at 120 dung i wont bind a single primal piece

prim plate is better than blood neck

every high level dunger i've been with has said that

chun is just an idiot and trolling

I'd say a sag body is better if you're not keying and you have a hex.

blood neck is definitely under estimated. You really don't need any defense if you're not keying.

 

but yeah melee armor is always best if keying.

sag body is pretty pointless since you said yourself that you can make a tyrano body without wasting combat time or something.

i just like the protection of primal plate it offers, can just slap on mage prayer and run through rooms without having to look at the monsters in it first usually.

ofc when you are staying in room for extended periods of time like gds or puzzles you should pray appropriately.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

sag body is pretty pointless since you said yourself that you can make a tyrano body without wasting combat time or something.

i just like the protection of primal plate it offers, can just slap on mage prayer and run through rooms without having to look at the monsters in it first usually.

ofc when you are staying in room for extended periods of time like gds or puzzles you should pray appropriately.

tyranno bodies takes 2 dinos, at least.

And you don't reap the benefit of a body until roughly halfway through a floor.

 

Plate is only useful for running through rooms.

if you're clearing rooms, you'll almost always be better off praying range, tanking mage hits, and safespotting melees.

platebody is also a pain in combination with the hex. -10 ranged attack is pretty huge, considering the hexhunter's low existing range bonus.

having to take it off when you want to range something is really a pain.

whereas +33 range his a huuge benefit to the hexhunter.

 

of course this is based around having a hexhunter.

[Star_Fox]

I was never tempted to throw away primal body for sag. I just don't like using melee reduction armour and the defence bonuses besides mage are crap.

Range def is pretty important too since you're always mage praying anyways. If you've got a full inv of salves, you don't really need to pray on enemies

like 128 zombies or 135/6 skeletons since the primal body gives enough defence to protect you enough to use less food than you will recieve from the drop.

I used a blood neck before, and it's not as bad as it seems when you have a SSH bind. The neck only activates whenever a monster is attacking another teammate

or "going" to attack. It never activates on idle enemies. HHB is definitely worth it if you have 3 binds. One teammate with a HHB does considerably speed up

the dung since a majority of monsters can get killed very easily. Especially higher demons and mages which are slightly resistant to melee.

Although binding a HHB would also mean it's highly recommended to bind arrows since using only store bought fractite decreases it's capability.

I don't like binding laws since you only need it for C1 floors.

[Squisher_33]

either way when i have prayer i never die

 

all my deaths are caused by not having prayer

 

platebody + no pray = trouble, large dmg intake

 

sag body + no pray = moderate inconvenience, ull still take dmg but lack of prayer wont realy cripple you, youll go from taking low dmg anyways to medium dmg

[Matt_Marche]

I think people are overestimating the importance of mage prayer. The reasoning for praying mage is to prevent binds, and if there are no forgotten mages in the room generally a sagi body + range prayer fares better, considering that mages first use the hood deactivation spell, their debuffs and summons (All of which are negated once leaving the room) and rangers on the other hand will be constantly attacking every 1.8 seconds.

[Golvellius]

None if you get the rare drops like blood necklaces and hexhunter bows.

I can always make a prom armour but my blood necklace is priceless. :thumbup:

Primal plate is way overated.

Unless you have both top and bottom you won't get enough defense to tank stuff.

[ghjkl]

None if you get the rare drops like blood necklaces and hexhunter bows.

I can always make a prom armour but my blood necklace is priceless. :thumbup:

Primal plate is way overated.

Unless you have both top and bottom you won't get enough defense to tank stuff.

How did you come up with that conclusion?

We all know of your hatred towards reasonable math so your conclusion that you need primal top and legs came from..... ?

[green9090]

None if you get the rare drops like blood necklaces and hexhunter bows.

I can always make a prom armour but my blood necklace is priceless. :thumbup:

Primal plate is way overated.

Unless you have both top and bottom you won't get enough defense to tank stuff.

How did you come up with that conclusion?

We all know of your hatred towards reasonable math so your conclusion that you need primal top and legs came from..... ?

Don't encourage him.

[Cheefoo]

I think shadowsilk hood needs some nerfing. Right now, it's something you absolutely must bind. If you're on a team where most party members have hoods but you, you'll be taking a lot of damage from the monsters that are affected by the hood, because they're all focusing on you. I can't find a shadowsilk hood for the life of me, and when I go on a team with hoods on every head but mine, it makes it very difficult to survive. I don't really want to dungeoneer much anymore because I know it'll be so much harder for me until I find a hood.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I think shadowsilk hood needs some nerfing. Right now, it's something you absolutely must bind. If you're on a team where most party members have hoods but you, you'll be taking a lot of damage from the monsters that are affected by the hood, because they're all focusing on you. I can't find a shadowsilk hood for the life of me, and when I go on a team with hoods on every head but mine, it makes it very difficult to survive. I don't really want to dungeoneer much anymore because I know it'll be so much harder for me until I find a hood.

a change to the SSH would change the metagame a little too much.

I'd rather jagex make the hood, or an equivalent item, easier to get

 

but this is getting off topic :P

[Th e Doctor]

I'm pretty sure when jagex made dungeoneering, they didn't forsee EVERYBODY with a hood and weapon, maybe a body at higher levels.

When jagex made the skill, I'm pretty sure they thought players would actually bind different items, actually specialize themselves. They probably thought an ideal team would consist of a ranger, mager, a meleer or two and skiller. Each binding their own respective items.

 

Obviously that isn't what has happened, jagex overlooked the usefulness and uselessness of items, such as the hood compared to armor. Players found they were able to complete dungeons faster and with greater ease just wearing a hood and powering through with a good melee weapon.

jagex sucks at metagaming :P

 

exactly, they thought (just like every other update), that they would actually be used to great extent.

Only a few times have they been right (like herblore habitat)

 

Um, except for the farming potions, how particularly useful are the rest? Particularly, say, the wc/mining potion. /Offtopic.

 

I assume you arent talking about scentless potions which help bring in an additional 500 k/hr at grenwalls? The ones that boost exp from the God jadinkos are used. The mining ones I've seen used before and for people at concentrated gold/teaks or mahogany the mining and wc ones are mildly useful. I never fish so I have no clue about the baron shark one.

[zotto]

Baron shark is painful. They catch just as slow as real sharks.

 

On the other hand it makes fishing sharks more interesting, that is, if you are interested in fishing sharks to start with. The monotony of not catching anything is once in a while interrupted by catching a baron shark.

 

The fishing pot can't really rescue shark fishing completely because it is still too slow to be competitive with other fishing methods.

[aspeeder]

I'm pretty sure when jagex made dungeoneering, they didn't forsee EVERYBODY with a hood and weapon, maybe a body at higher levels.

When jagex made the skill, I'm pretty sure they thought players would actually bind different items, actually specialize themselves. They probably thought an ideal team would consist of a ranger, mager, a meleer or two and skiller. Each binding their own respective items.

 

Obviously that isn't what has happened, jagex overlooked the usefulness and uselessness of items, such as the hood compared to armor. Players found they were able to complete dungeons faster and with greater ease just wearing a hood and powering through with a good melee weapon.

 

Then they shouldn't design something to look "epic"

 

In this game, you play by the numbers. The reason you see boss hunters in the same gear because that gives you the best numbers.

Sure something may look cool, but you want the best numbers so you can get more numbers. Primal helmet may look good, but its numbers are less then a shadow hood.

 

If you ask someone what herbs they should farm, you are going to tell them the best one to do for money. The best numbers to do to get more numbers.

Off-Topic, but I can sense a Zero Punctuation watcher; he was talking about the circular logic of bossing to get better drops to bossing better, here we dung to get tokens for outside use and better weapons help increase the rate that we get tokens, so it's a little different than what he was talking about.

 

OT: If you really care about looking good in full t11 armor then get a 99/120 dung cape and do the emote a lot; but I do agree that having drops that will only help in the next dung if you bind it is pretty useless, maybe it'd be more interesting if you were able to keep the drop from the boss for the next dung you do but then it disappears.

[Quyneax]

I'm all for a level ~80 bind from a quest and a level ~90 + ~110 binds costing 200k and 500k tokens or similar. However even without those, the full sets of t11 are useful as Grimy said.

[Zomoor]

But, what is the point of a primal hatchet?

It has one use; to cut logs. Why even design it if nobody will NEVER use it. Period.

My level 3 skiller friend has 100+ dunging, therefore making it extremely useful for him to bind.

[Golvellius]

None if you get the rare drops like blood necklaces and hexhunter bows.

I can always make a prom armour but my blood necklace is priceless. :thumbup:

Primal plate is way overated.

Unless you have both top and bottom you won't get enough defense to tank stuff.

How did you come up with that conclusion?

We all know of your hatred towards reasonable math so your conclusion that you need primal top and legs came from..... ?

Don't worry if I have a hatred of "reasonable" math (truely laughable), because your opinion lacks any whatsoever along with any proof that prom plate is better than blood necklace.

Now, I call tanking something when I can manage to avoid 8+ hits out of 10.

Not when running around naked praying this and that and calling for help when one sees a guardian door room loaded to the brim in lvl 128 fruit bats.

Just a primal plate gets you high 200s in defense accross the board. (minus crush a staple of many monsters)

Lets face it your going to get hit half the time and you my as well pray to the god of 20 minute dungeons to save you a few deaths.

Binding primal armour just saves you time in making it.

 

Now if you want to actually tank, you need body, legs, and shield. (helm is pro)

You really need 400+ in a stat to tank 128 zombie axe throwers or 150-180 undead meleers or anything of the highest order.

(You my aswell just pray if you don't load up)

500+ defense with a blood necklace is what I always shoot for.

I call it dungeon sweeper mode.

Now I can make a statement with all them miss shields covering me in head to toe.

Just wade on into a crowd of enemies and watch the little red 40s pop up everywhere.

While the crowd of a naked hoods stands outside the door wondering who is going to go into that guardian room with 5 128 zombies and a pair of 100+ necros and take care of business, I'm taking heads off and spitting down zombie throats.

Merc room, no problem, you just stay out, Dungeon Sweeper can handle that with a little mage prayer.

Summoning room, somebody get some entangles and get that bloodrager off me and you won't even have to feed me.

Things you can't tank. The big 140+ brutes and the lvl 300+ giant npcs.

Well you can but it can get ughly if you afk clear guardian doors like The Dungeon Sweeper.

 

Don't encourage him.

Too late. :razz:

[Squisher_33]

i think a full set (helm plate legs) for all 3 styles should give a set bouns

 

primal - 30% more melee dmg vs rangers

 

celestial - 30% more mage dmg vs meleers

 

saggitare - 30% more range dmg vs magers

[Quyneax]

[hide]

None if you get the rare drops like blood necklaces and hexhunter bows.

I can always make a prom armour but my blood necklace is priceless. :thumbup:

Primal plate is way overated.

Unless you have both top and bottom you won't get enough defense to tank stuff.

How did you come up with that conclusion?

We all know of your hatred towards reasonable math so your conclusion that you need primal top and legs came from..... ?

Don't worry if I have a hatred of "reasonable" math (truely laughable), because your opinion lacks any whatsoever along with any proof that prom plate is better than blood necklace.

Now, I call tanking something when I can manage to avoid 8+ hits out of 10.

Not when running around naked praying this and that and calling for help when one sees a guardian door room loaded to the brim in lvl 128 fruit bats.

Just a primal plate gets you high 200s in defense accross the board. (minus crush a staple of many monsters)

Lets face it your going to get hit half the time and you my as well pray to the god of 20 minute dungeons to save you a few deaths.

Binding primal armour just saves you time in making it.

 

Now if you want to actually tank, you need body, legs, and shield. (helm is pro)

You really need 400+ in a stat to tank 128 zombie axe throwers or 150-180 undead meleers or anything of the highest order.

(You my aswell just pray if you don't load up)

500+ defense with a blood necklace is what I always shoot for.

I call it dungeon sweeper mode.

Now I can make a statement with all them miss shields covering me in head to toe.

Just wade on into a crowd of enemies and watch the little red 40s pop up everywhere.

While the crowd of a naked hoods stands outside the door wondering who is going to go into that guardian room with 5 128 zombies and a pair of 100+ necros and take care of business, I'm taking heads off and spitting down zombie throats.

Merc room, no problem, you just stay out, Dungeon Sweeper can handle that with a little mage prayer.

Summoning room, somebody get some entangles and get that bloodrager off me and you won't even have to feed me.

Things you can't tank. The big 140+ brutes and the lvl 300+ giant npcs.

Well you can but it can get ughly if you afk clear guardian doors like The Dungeon Sweeper.

 

Don't encourage him.

Too late. :razz:

[/hide]

I may not totally agree with this, but hey it's funny :lol:.

 

Eh, ot: too many binds would make dg too easy. If you had 3-4 binds by the time you got warped, the difficulty should be increased.

[Wkw]

So, the best binds are weapon, hood, and blood necklase? At least thats what you make it out to soundlike...

 

 

i think a full set (helm plate legs) for all 3 styles should give a set bouns

 

primal - 30% more melee dmg vs rangers

 

celestial - 30% more mage dmg vs meleers

 

saggitare - 30% more range dmg vs magers

 

So, make bonuses that nobody ever will use, ever, unless they are lvl 100 dung and decide to NOT have a weapon bound?

 

 

TBH, I think they should let you bind 1 or 2 more items between lvl 1 and 100... Mostly ever, people will only have 2 items bound. You should also be allowed to KEEP armor between dungeons. I understand if you start on floor 40 you'll be naked, but if you do floor 20-40 without breaks, you should be able to keep what you've made and found between dungeons.

AFterall, they say IN THEIR OWN LORE, that items can't be taken out od daemonheim.. Unless you consider going down a ladder to be leaving, which it isn't..

[Squisher_33]

So, the best binds are weapon, hood, and blood necklase? At least thats what you make it out to soundlike...

 

 

i think a full set (helm plate legs) for all 3 styles should give a set bouns

 

primal - 30% more melee dmg vs rangers

 

celestial - 30% more mage dmg vs meleers

 

saggitare - 30% more range dmg vs magers

 

So, make bonuses that nobody ever will use, ever, unless they are lvl 100 dung and decide to NOT have a weapon bound?

 

 

TBH, I think they should let you bind 1 or 2 more items between lvl 1 and 100... Mostly ever, people will only have 2 items bound. You should also be allowed to KEEP armor between dungeons. I understand if you start on floor 40 you'll be naked, but if you do floor 20-40 without breaks, you should be able to keep what you've made and found between dungeons.

AFterall, they say IN THEIR OWN LORE, that items can't be taken out od daemonheim.. Unless you consider going down a ladder to be leaving, which it isn't..

 

im speaking for myself, not low lvl dungers

 

the set bonuses would only realy apply to 120 dungers i suppose, but gives motivation to shed the hood at 120

[sumondskull6]

Here's what I say:

>= 49 DG: Melee weapon

>= 99 DG: Melee weapon and a Hood (or plate if you've yet to get a hood).

>= 119 DG: Melee weapon, Hood (plate if you've yet to get a hood, still), and Blood necklace/HHB

== 120 DG: Melee weapon, Hood, (HHB and Blood necklace), (Primal plate/legs), or (Primal boots/gauntlets).

 

I would personally prefer a HHB, then tack on the Blood necklace at 120.

[Cheefoo]

You should also be allowed to KEEP armor between dungeons. I understand if you start on floor 40 you'll be naked, but if you do floor 20-40 without breaks, you should be able to keep what you've made and found between dungeons.

AFterall, they say IN THEIR OWN LORE, that items can't be taken out od daemonheim.. Unless you consider going down a ladder to be leaving, which it isn't..

 

I think that's an incredible idea! Though there should certainly be a limit, though. If you could take as many items as you want, it would really change the early dungeon game too much. This also gives more of an insentive to play more floors with the same people, instead of doing one then quitting right away.

[NukeMarine]

There were two great solutions to this problem:

 

First, create a "Dungeoneering Bank" with a limited set-up: You can only deposit and withdraw items at the end of dungeon (so no trading between players). If you deposit a "bound" item, it gets stored as unbound. You can then withdraw items you like and "bind" them, then exit to the next level with your new bind set-up. This means you can change your stance level by level (more fun than just staying melee or range the last 90 million XP from 99 to 120). Jagex just puts limits of 1 for armor/weapons and 125 for runes/ammo.

 

Second, give all items a "bind count", chest pieces count as 5, weapons count as 4, legs count as 3, head is 2, etc. Your bind count starts at 5, then becomes 10 at dng 50, 15 at dng 99 and then 20 dng 120. This mixed with the "bank" idea above allows players more flexibility on how they start a dungeon.

[amitoz]

Just because no one uses Rune Full helms in P2P, they should be taken out of the game?