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Tip.It Times - 30th January 2011


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35 replies to this topic

#1
Racheya
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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

Read these rules before posting in this thread


When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

Enjoy the articles!


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#2
Assume Nothing
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"Economic Ignorance" seems to lack a strong conclusion, from my quick scan through of the article. Hmm..

#3
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Not to be harsh, but the main point of Economic Ignorance is to say that changes to the economy are happening. Isn't that really obvious anyway?
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#4
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"Economic Ignorance"

I liked the article, reminds me of me :)
I'm a pretty high level, and have no idea, or care, on how the 'rs economy' works.
I buy at full, and sell at less, at GE.

One thing is sure, Free trade will change some items price.

(I know some friends who just can't wait till Feb 1 :) )


"Tip.it Times"

I read the Tip.it times for the enjoyment of reading. I'm not looking for answers, or tips, or anything.
What some people find obvious, "been said before", irrelevant, etc, I find entertaining.

I look forward to every sunday, for the new issue. Keep 'em coming, I'll keep on reading.........
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#5
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On the first article;

This has been accomplished by running events, being in their clan chats a lot and spending more time talking to their players in a more general way. But, what are they doing for us?


Haven't you just answered that? :P Anyway, when you talk about slack I don't really see it, and I don't understand how they can slack due to community things, as this year is the Year of Clan updates anyway :P. Nor do I really get how the notes system is a way of Jagex talking to the community past the example of a referendum about an update, I think you should have used that as an example instead to make it relevant to the now. :) . I agree with their support on the social networking sites, however I'd like to see more of them turning out to events like they used to, it seems unfortunately Jagex are catering for their own community and not reaching out to Fansites as much, as RSOF Events teams now get huge support with their leaders becoming moderators on the forum quite often.

On the second article, I think the meat and purpose of the article were in the last 2 paragraphs, which is unfortunate since I think this could've been the dominating the content, but I agree entirely. I know not a lot about the economy, and 2 days or so before the free trade I will sell my raw rocktails even though I know they'd be a much higher price after free trade and Wilderness. If I knew more though, I'd be tempted to get into economy manipulation, predicting prices in the future, which I wouldn't enjoy :ohnoes:

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#6
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Economic Ignorance really struck a chord with me, if someone could eplain the purpose of junk trading I'd appreciate it lol.

I consider myself to be an average player, I've always played RS as a way of relaxing and passing time. If I level, I level, if not, well maybe in my next session. As such, when it comes to using GE, I buy in the middle and sell in the middle. I don't see the way I trade will change very much come the 1st. I also think that will be true for a lot of players too.
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#7
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the thing is, intro economics are mandatory for graduation many universities now. As a freshman seminar-type course.
Most, if not all all US state funded universities require intro level economics courses or the equivalent.
In my university, ALL majors are required to learn some economics, not just business majors.
Even arts, humanities, sciences. It's all mandatory.

A few universities don't require them. Like Harvard for example.
But that's usually because higher level universities tend to give more freedom of electives than say, a state funded university.
But these universities can usually get by with assuming that you're smart enough to not need such a thing.

And the majority of students go to college nowadays.
Granted a lot of RS players haven't gone to college yet. And I understand that.
Plenty don't even live in america, and I'm speaking from a 100% US perspective.

But my expectation is, that given the opportunity, most people should be able to learn some intro level economics.
(because none of the economics principles employed on TIF are beyond intro level)
and given the number of efficiency prods on the TIF forums
the opportunities are abound.

So when I see economic ignorance, I really only draw 2 conclusions:
a) You're too lazy to learn it
b) You're too stupid to complete an intro level requirement for graduation at most American state universities.
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#8
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Economic Ignorance really struck a chord with me, if someone could eplain the purpose of junk trading I'd appreciate it lol.

I consider myself to be an average player, I've always played RS as a way of relaxing and passing time. If I level, I level, if not, well maybe in my next session. As such, when it comes to using GE, I buy in the middle and sell in the middle. I don't see the way I trade will change very much come the 1st. I also think that will be true for a lot of players too.


Junk is an item that is worth over its value, such as if Jagex made lobsters 10k each and said deal with it, there would be no way people could ever sell them with a price restriction, and no way people would ever buy them, effectively making lobster junk.



So how does someone "junk trade"? Lets say Jagex did the opposite, made another item - say dragon claws way undervalued and said deal with it. So Jagex values claws at 2mil but players agree that they are worth 30mil and no one would sell for less, how do you get claws and get rid of lobsters? If you are buying claws, the person would put up claws which would make the trade imbalance 2mil in favor of them, and then 28mil worth of lobsters, and then you would put up 30mil and you got your claws.

However it gets better, lets say those claws had a 1mil per 24 hour lend rate. So you put up your claws to lend for 24 hours and 1mil worth of lobsters, the trader puts up 1mil cash. Thus you effectively got real money for the junk. See junk is a theoretical value, and you could never find a natural buyer for the price it is valued at, and junk trading/lending are ways to get real money for the otherwise untradable junk.

#9
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the thing is, intro economics are mandatory for graduation many universities now. As a freshman seminar-type course.
Most, if not all all US state funded universities require intro level economics courses or the equivalent.
In my university, ALL majors are required to learn some economics, not just business majors.
Even arts, humanities, sciences. It's all mandatory.

A few universities don't require them. Like Harvard for example.
But that's usually because higher level universities tend to give more freedom of electives than say, a state funded university.
But these universities can usually get by with assuming that you're smart enough to not need such a thing.

And the majority of students go to college nowadays.
Granted a lot of RS players haven't gone to college yet. And I understand that.
Plenty don't even live in america, and I'm speaking from a 100% US perspective.

But my expectation is, that given the opportunity, most people should be able to learn some intro level economics.
(because none of the economics principles employed on TIF are beyond intro level)
and given the number of efficiency prods on the TIF forums
the opportunities are abound.

So when I see economic ignorance, I really only draw 2 conclusions:
a) You're too lazy to learn it
b) You're too stupid to complete an intro level requirement for graduation at most American state universities.



It would appear that the USA policy of 'teaching' economics is a failure, what with Lehmans causing a world wide economic crises.

Suggesting that someone is stupid or lazy because they are not fully conversant with the intricacies of a games' economics is, frankly, arrogant. When I see arrogance, I really only draw one conclusion, but I'm far too polite to type it on an open forum.
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#10
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It would appear that the USA policy of 'teaching' economics is a failure, what with Lehmans causing a world wide economic crises.

that's finance, not economics

#11
cultjunky
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Thanks Ring World, your explanation of junk trading certainly made sense.
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#12
Aiel
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the thing is, intro economics are mandatory for graduation many universities now. As a freshman seminar-type course.
Most, if not all all US state funded universities require intro level economics courses or the equivalent.
In my university, ALL majors are required to learn some economics, not just business majors.
Even arts, humanities, sciences. It's all mandatory.

A few universities don't require them. Like Harvard for example.
But that's usually because higher level universities tend to give more freedom of electives than say, a state funded university.
But these universities can usually get by with assuming that you're smart enough to not need such a thing.

And the majority of students go to college nowadays.
Granted a lot of RS players haven't gone to college yet. And I understand that.
Plenty don't even live in america, and I'm speaking from a 100% US perspective.

But my expectation is, that given the opportunity, most people should be able to learn some intro level economics.
(because none of the economics principles employed on TIF are beyond intro level)
and given the number of efficiency prods on the TIF forums
the opportunities are abound.

So when I see economic ignorance, I really only draw 2 conclusions:
a) You're too lazy to learn it
b) You're too stupid to complete an intro level requirement for graduation at most American state universities.

Intro level economics is required for graduation at my HIGH SCHOOL :rolleyes:
Its not like basic economics are that hard to understand anyway...

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#13
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Intro level economics is required for graduation at my HIGH SCHOOL :rolleyes:
Its not like basic economics are that hard to understand anyway...


Economics was a high school requirement for me as well.

#14
cultjunky
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It would appear that the USA policy of 'teaching' economics is a failure, what with Lehmans causing a world wide economic crises.

that's finance, not economics



I understood it as an economic failure due to the irresponsible financing of risky loans. However, I intended my comment to mean that the teaching of economics is perhaps missing an element of responsible economic procedures. It could be said that as bots are employed in many trading houses, the neccesity for an individual to be 'au fait' economic mechanisms is negligible, where as an idividuals need to be aware of the consequences of various economic mechanisms and policies is potentially of greater significance. As this line of debate is taking the thread away from the intended purpose of the thread, I can't be fluffed to expand any further.
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#15
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Yeah, um, basic economics aren't hard to grasp. Part of High School here as well. However, predicting the economy, especially in the short term, is very difficult.

The thing that REALLY gets me about this whole wilde/free trade thing though... Free trade really won't change the economy that much. The items it will effect (affect?) is junk, rares, Nex/Corp only drops.

Have to say, one thing that I think the author was right about, a lot people will still continue trading through the GE.

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#16
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the reason for the financial meltdown was because the us government was directly forcing these financial institutions to give out loans to people they knew could not repay.

which anyone who has taken any econ or finance classes could tell you is a bad idea.

america needs to teach its congressmen some econ and finance imo.

#17
Ring_World
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Yeah, um, basic economics aren't hard to grasp. Part of High School here as well. However, predicting the economy, especially in the short term, is very difficult.

The thing that REALLY gets me about this whole wilde/free trade thing though... Free trade really won't change the economy that much. The items it will effect (affect?) is junk, rares, Nex/Corp only drops.

Have to say, one thing that I think the author was right about, a lot people will still continue trading through the GE.


This is true, and people might stop trading over the GE when buying mass quantities of items, thanks to the good ol' GE limits Jagex decided to keep <_<



And why did they decide to keep them? To stop price manipulation... hah! At least it wasnt a stamp copy of to stop rwting, again.

#18
Assume Nothing
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Yeah, um, basic economics aren't hard to grasp. Part of High School here as well. However, predicting the economy, especially in the short term, is very difficult.

The thing that REALLY gets me about this whole wilde/free trade thing though... Free trade really won't change the economy that much. The items it will effect (affect?) is junk, rares, Nex/Corp only drops.

Have to say, one thing that I think the author was right about, a lot people will still continue trading through the GE.


This is true, and people might stop trading over the GE when buying mass quantities of items, thanks to the good ol' GE limits Jagex decided to keep <_<



And why did they decide to keep them? To stop price manipulation... hah! At least it wasnt a stamp copy of to stop rwting, again.


No... it's to stop monopolies.

#19
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Please... no more articles about the Runescape economy. It's becoming a really tiresome subject.
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#20
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I'm glad it struck a chord with some people. I know those who can understand the Runescape economy wouldn't really appreciate it as much but everyone has their own perspective, right? :)

Like I said, I get some of the basic ideas but the finer points just leave me. I've never done any sort of economics. In the UK, it's not any sort of required subject at GCSE level. The closest thing would be business studies that some people took, but not that many. At least when I was finishing Secondary School. So all my economic understanding comes from what I've picked up on the internet. I'm a Computer Science student, economics don't appeal to me, but shouldn't they in Runescape? I should take the time to delve more into Runescape economics but I often feel that I don't have the sort of money pile for it to matter (generally around 2m) and, of course, what we say we should do and what we ACTUALLY do are often two very different things ;)


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