The Flower Game

[Salad]

I just saw someone advertising for a "Seal Game", I guess that's trying to guess the color seal they turn when they do the new Christmas emote. Makes me wonder how many variants will turn up, the only difference seems to be the odds.

 

Do you mean the emote 'Seal of Approval'?

 

Basically, it's the same thing as the flower game, except you chose a number between 1 and 6, and the host does the emote, and you check the number on the back of the seal.

[ilikeharibo]

I played this earlier. Started with a 20k bet, lost. Played again for 50k, won. Then went for 500k 'cause I can, won... But he ran and logged out. Not too bothered, the money is nothing. Just don't trust anybody, especially if you're not too wealthy.

[Guest jrhairychest]

@Ring_World

Seems youre still struggling with this concept no matter how many times it is explained to you. No matter it is probably the tying of yourself in knots with your own arguments. Why is it youre stating....

So news headlines are the basis for your opinion?

 

Then this in the next breath...........

I dont have the sources with me but I have seen a number of articles and news reports saying....

 

So you want me to provide facts for my points but youre not prepared to put yours forward? Very grown up of you.

 

Gambling Commission UK industry regulator statistics and bear in mind this was TWO years ago!

• 7% of UK under 18s (975,000) are hooked on gambling.
  
• 14% of UK under 18s (1.9m) are at serious risk.
  

The full article is here. Bear in mind this is the UK alone.

 

Explaining this for the umpteenth time, I havent said anything about "learning gambling skills in runescape makes your kids become a gambling addict." Youre just changing things to try to suit your argument. I have said Learning REAL LIFE gambling games like POKER or CASINO games is a bad thing to put in RS because those kids may use that skill/knowledge elsewhere on a REAL LIFE betting website, however other types of games where this does not occur is perfectly acceptable. Look back through the thread (again) and see for yourself.

 

Interesting quote from you again

And yes I firmly believe in one person abusing something shouldnt ruin everyone elses fun, and if you find your kid is using runescape to become a master gambler then it is YOUR responsibility to disconect him. I find that attitude to be perfectly reasonable. Americas general attitude of THIS CAN BE ABUSED BY SOME 1% OF PEOPLE LETS OWTLAW IT@@@@@ is not a philosophy to live by, however this is a topic in itself.

I agree I have responsibility. I do my job. Do your parents monitor your use of the Internet seeing as how you already know ways around some of the monitoring software? Exactly.

Now I know you dont give a toss about anyone else but yourself as you freely admit, but we arent talking about ONE person abusing it, but a number. The lets outlaw it comment makes me glad that legislation is done by those who know what they are doing.

 

See its not about my age or parenting skills, its about you throwing out invalid opinions. Show some facts to support your claims.

My claims are valid and an opinion is always valid as its an opinion. Sorry but your lack of maturity on these matters proves it is about your age. Dont play at being adult when trying to come out with smart arse comments that only a teenager would. Your turn on the facts.

 

@ginger_warrior

Read above for the stats you wanted.

 

instead of making it illegal to have drugs/sex/violence in games, we should outlaw people who can't understand the difference between fantasy and reality from playing games

Nice quote. Does this include teenagers who dont understand reality because they dont move out of their own bedrooms?

 

@Ghostcloak

Youre really having trouble with the concept of stylisation arent you? Stylised... cartoon...not real....not properly simulated.........however try and stylise the game of poker....cant do.....has rules....must make different...TOTALLY. Again youre making the assumption that because you dont have a problem no-one else will either so its to hell with everyone else. Life doesnt work that way and not everyone takes the responsibility for their kids. We wouldnt need ANY restriction at all. The world isnt perfect and there are many parents who just let their kids play on the internet with no monitoring at all. I would bet my bottom dollar there are posters on here who are <18, whose parents take no interest at all in what they do on the Internet, who support the introduction of poker or casino games .

 

Picking up on the issue of gambling in the form of 'poker'; this wouldn't seem appropriate to the game in any way and I think Jrhairychest made a valid point with his comment about teaching the techniques of playing poker in RS which would appear to promote and justify the concept of commercialised RL gambling. And lets be honest; winning itself is so addictive or the idea of winning. I think that the fantasy and creative games conducted with abstract 'in game' tools is fine, but don't bring RL into RS gameplay!

Exactly.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Ding ding ding - It's another General Discussion strawman argument! You guys should get a community ribbon or something, or at least make a career out of it working for Fox News.

 

I never denied that under 18 year olds could become addicted to gambling, all I asked for was some proof that the simple process of learning how to play a card game is in anyway associated with thinking that the next bet's going to be the one that makes all the other losing bets count for something. Your argument is tantamount to saying, "Under 18 year olds suffer from depression. Kids are taught about depression through mental health awareness in the National Curriculum. The National Curriculum causes adolescent depression."

 

I'm afraid until you learn the basic tenets of statistical logic, you're not going to convince anyone in this thread of your as-yet baseless pseudo-scientific claims, least of all me. Except of course, why bother with burdening ourselves with finding proof, when you're coming out with little gems like this:

 

My claims are valid and an opinion is always valid as it's an opinion.

Oh I get it. Why didn't you tell us this sooner - we could've saved ourselves much time. You're right because you think you are right. Gotcha.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Ding ding ding - It's another General Discussion strawman argument! You guys should get a community ribbon or something, or at least make a career out of it working for Fox News.

 

I never denied that under 18 year olds could become addicted to gambling, all I asked for was some proof that the simple process of learning how to play a card game is in anyway associated with thinking that the next bet's going to be the one that makes all the other losing bets count for something. Your argument is tantamount to saying, "Under 18 year olds suffer from depression. Kids are taught about depression through mental health awareness in the National Curriculum. The National Curriculum causes adolescent depression."

 

I'm afraid until you learn the basic tenets of statistical logic, you're not going to convince anyone in this thread of your as-yet baseless pseudo-scientific claims, least of all me. Except of course, why bother with burdening ourselves with finding proof, when you're coming out with little gems like this:

 

You're just being ridiclous. You actually believe that training kids to play a RL commercial card game is a harmless thing to do. You haven't got a clue what goes in in RL at all and any kid who already gambles or is at risk may make that choice. Depression isn't a commercial pastime, neither have I ever heard of someone being addicted to depression so it's a poor comparison. I don't really care whether I convince anyone of this thread as I realise that the teenage population is very selective about what it wants to hear. The statistics are there so its your choice whether you ignore them, which obviously you have and now you're looking to avoid coming up with your own evidence (which incidentally I've seen on another thread where you plucked player demographics out of the air). Why not also stick your fingers in your ears and yell "la la la I can't hear you JR" too for added effect.

 

My claims are valid and an opinion is always valid as it's an opinion.

Oh I get it. Why didn't you tell us this sooner - we could've saved ourselves much time. You're right because you think you are right. Gotcha.

So you also have a problem with opinion too? Why not throw yourself on the floor and beat your fists on it then too? Actually I know I'm right.

[Bladewing]

jrhairychest: correlation does not prove causation

 

plus it's not like it's jagex-sanctioned. it's completely player instigated.

 

what is jagex gonna do? remove flowers from the game? then remove dice from the game? then remove the magic 8 ball? et al.

[Magbill]

I was under the impression most teens knew how to play poker anyway. All of my friends do.

[Guest jrhairychest]

jrhairychest: correlation does not prove causation

 

plus it's not like it's jagex-sanctioned. it's completely player instigated.

 

what is jagex gonna do? remove flowers from the game? then remove dice from the game? then remove the magic 8 ball? et al.

 

Blade, Do you have any idea why regulation is so? Do you have any understanding of why things like RL gambling has age limits to it? Do you understand the concept of not giving someone the means to do something that they aren't ready no legally able to do? Do you understand the flower game and other such stylised gambling cannot be bet on on a RL gambling website and is therefore acceptable?

 

At the moment Jagex needs to remove nothing from the game and they can add to it. My objection is adding RL gambling elements such as poker or casino games.

[CharlieBrown]

 

Was in w 2, saw some lvl 90 odd offering a decent bet:payout ratio = probably legit.

Turns out he was :)

45 k bet for d boots lol

[Ginger_Warrior]

I was under the impression most teens knew how to play poker anyway. All of my friends do

Get 'em checked in straight away. They're on the slippery slope to addiction apparently.

 

You're just being ridiclous. You actually believe that training kids to play a RL commercial card game is a harmless thing to do. You haven't got a clue what goes in in RL at all and any kid who already gambles or is at risk may make that choice.

Ahh, argumentum ad hominem. Well at least according to Paul Graham's Hierachy of Disagreement, now I know you've got nothing meaningful to say.

 

Depression isn't a commercial pastime, neither have I ever heard of someone being addicted to depression so it's a poor comparison.

OK then. Kids know chocolate exists. People can become addicted to chocolate. Clearly it's the knowing of chocolate that leads to addiction, in your schema. Let's ban the chocolate from sweet shops. Is this a poor comparison too?

 

I don't really care whether I convince anyone of this thread as I realise that the teenage population is very selective about what it wants to hear.

I'm 21 next month, so obviously a teenager, but not that it matters anyway. It's still more ad hominem.

 

The statistics are there so its your choice whether you ignore them, which obviously you have and now you're looking to avoid coming up with your own evidence

No no, the basic foundation of logic is quite simple, you see. You make a claim, you provide evidence to back it up. If someone disagrees with you because no evidence has been presented, that's your problem; I don't need to come up with my evidence unless I'm making a different assertion, which I haven't. I've simply denied the premise of your assertion.

 

I worked on Tip.It for over a year in a role that involved finding facts about in-game content and updating the website accordingly. In addition to that I've also worked on Wikipedia for near four years, and in that time had an article pass a Good Article Nomination which is described as being "factually accurate and verifiable", "contains no original research" as well as "approaching the quality of a professional encyclopedia". Don't even bother trying to go down the 'You never back up what you say' attack - I've got four years voluntary experience and the achievements to boot that tell me otherwise, thanks.

 

So far, all you've done is provide evidence that addiction exists. Congratulations, except I never questioned that bit. This doesn't explain why card games shouldn't be taught to kids, because you've not made a link between the process of learning, and the process of addiction.

 

(which incidentally I've seen on another thread where you plucked player demographics out of the air)

And that has... what to do with this thread? I suppose Alexa also plucked said demographics out of thin air?

 

Why not also stick your fingers in your ears and yell "la la la I can't hear you JR" too for added effect./

So far, only one of has tried to evade every question that's been asked of him.

 

So you also have a problem with opinion too? Why not throw yourself on the floor and beat your fists on it then too? Actually I know I'm right.

I've no problem with people having opinions - again, a strawman argument. Opinions are exactly that though - opinions, and they can be wrong until proven as fact. So far, you've not proved yours right, you've just assumed that because you have a kid and I don't, that you are right and I am wrong.

[Naraku893]

i wonder if Jagex would incorporate something into the game for this to make the flower game more safe

[Leyenda]

I've reported every single player I've seen hosting this game, lawl. 8-)

Stop making more work for Jagex

[michel555555]

i wonder if Jagex would incorporate something into the game for this to make the flower game more safe

 

Do they have a choice really? Its obvious alot of people want to gamble so its not like jagex can actually stop it. If they do it right it might make a nice new money sink, with the house, jagex, keeping a portion of the money.

[Bladewing]

we don't need any money sinks

 

let players host

[Jehosaphat]

I swear, the latter section of this thread looks like it belongs in OT. Buncha people fighting over something controversial, and neither being willing to admit that they might be, in even the slightest sense, wrong.

[Bladewing]

it does belong in OT - this thread is about flower game and none of them are talking about the flower game.

[Guest jrhairychest]

@Ginger_Warrior

Agreed I have shown that addiction exists and now you’re asking me to actually prove that playing poker or a casino game in RS could lead to this? Do you think kids just wake up one day and gamble, or perhaps it’s something they get conditioned in. After all it’s the exposure to gambling in the first place that sets the ball rolling. If a kid learns poker in RS and likes it there’s a distinct possibility they could turn their attention elsewhere and go to a commercial site, you know, that exists in real life? Where’s the proof? Well, those kids in the gambling article I stated don’t just wake up and become gamblers, they ‘learn’ the behaviour first , then it’s all down to their genetic make-up. Research points towards dopamine levels being raised for that buzz. However when the dopamine fix isn’t hitting the spot any more those susceptible to needing a better fix tend to move on to other means where the dopamine level is higher. It usually involves more risky betting and the spiral starts. So exposing them to games you can play RL makes it easily possible for any kid who wants that buzz to go elsewhere. You’ve conditioned them to play a RL commercial game that is supposedly age restricted but with the anonymity of the web it makes it more accessible.

 

Your chocolate theory, while amusing, has no real link here as it’s legal and RS is no way responsible for any kid developing a fat arse because of it.

 

Gambling, drinking, violence in RS aren’t an issue because it’s all stylised (which you keep ignoring). It’s cartoon and is in no way designed to resemble anything in real life e.g. you aren’t actually drinking, hitting something or gambling the same way you do in RL. That’s why the flower game poses no issues. However, poker can’t be. Make it as cute and fluffy as you want, it’s still poker.

 

Writing for Tipit or the Wiki book of lies.....Very nice but what does that prove? No idea why you posted that unless you were trying to demonstrate how intelligent and all grown up you are. Don’t confuse intelligence with wisdom or common sense. There’s enough intelligent people in this world who can write parrot fashion into articles and books who lack the common sense, skills or knowledge of real life. It’s about knowing people , not what is in a game site or put in an article that any old munchkin can edit. That’s why I understand why it’s not good to allow kids to gamble using RL techniques. It’s inappropriate, I know what kids are like, and only a fool would argue that they should be included.

 

The Alexa page you gave me gives me audience demographics for RS, whereas you were arguing that the whole audience of MMORPG’s fell into that bracket in your debate. Did you give me the wrong page?

 

Argumentum ad hominem and strawman comments should be reserved for those who care about them. If you don’t like the way I debate then don’t debate with me. Simple.

[Judge]

I will end this argument by saying: Children get more easily addicted to gambling, that's a fact.

 

However!

 

There has not been made, to my findings or recollection, any sort of or planning of research to correlate "fake" gambling in online games/other media and real gambling.

 

 

OT: I think that anyone trying the game should leave it at 1 try/day max, like the lottory. :P

[Naraku893]

i can be a staking addict but never be addicted to real gambling

[Guest jrhairychest]

I will end this argument by saying: Children get more easily addicted to gambling, that's a fact.

 

However!

 

There has not been made, to my findings or recollection, any sort of or planning of research to correlate "fake" gambling in online games/other media and real gambling.

 

 

OT: I think that anyone trying the game should leave it at 1 try/day max, like the lottory. :P

Lmao. Did you read the article? Your findings have dug up an article on Kids fake slot machines and toy poker games being removed from sale. You were saying about 'Fake' gambling? Same principle.

 

Here is the official article.

[FooK-A-Ji]

So if you girls are finished now, can we get back to talking about the flower game ? :mrgreen:

[aspeeder]

Lmao. Did you read the article? Your findings have dug up an article on Kids fake slot machines and toy poker games being removed from sale. You were saying about 'Fake' gambling? Same principle.

 

Here is the official article.

The only thing in the article that has some factual support for your argument would be "Psychologists warned the playing of such games at a young age ran the risk of children developing addictive behaviour." The children in question were around age 4. Find some better evidence that these "soft gambling games" can encourage addictive behavior for kids ~12-17, if you want to prove your point of easing into TEEN addiction rather than CHILD addiction.

[Naraku893]

So if you girls are finished now, can we get back to talking about the flower game ? :mrgreen:

 

 

thats what i was thinking, although the flower game is a from of gambling.

[Guest jrhairychest]

The only thing in the article that has some factual support for your argument would be "Psychologists warned the playing of such games at a young age ran the risk of children developing addictive behaviour." The children in question were around age 4. Find some better evidence that these "soft gambling games" can encourage addictive behavior for kids ~12-17, if you want to prove your point of easing into TEEN addiction rather than CHILD addiction.

Im not sure where youre going with asking for better evidence but that wasnt my evidence, it was ironic that its a link on that website. What exactly is the difference between those games that young kids play and teens playing on-line poker? Very little.

 

How do you think teens, or indeed anyone becomes a problem gambler? The same way as any other addiction starts, usually through softer methods, with these activities often viewed as harmless and even social pastimes e.g. Drugs or alcohol.

[Robot919]

I have been hosting the Flower Game the past few days, and I have lost over 1 mil since I started hosting. (I actually payout if they win)

 

Today I was hosting flower game x5.

 

This guy bet 100k, lost. Then he bet 50k, and lost again. Once more, he bet 75k, and lost yet again.

 

I gave him 15k as a consolation prize because I set a limit of 3X playing. He begged me to play 1 more time, I said ok, but it would be x4 if he won.

 

He said ok, and put down 125k. He guessed dark mix, and guess what it was? 600k lost. :(