The Flower Game

[JustAGamer]

I do not understand why we can stake in Conquest, but we cannot stake in a game of cards. What is the difference there?

 

I'm curious what Jagex's stance would be on counting cards. :lol:

[Junkmutt]

It's nice to find a person that pays up for x10, 15m for me thank you.

[Guest jrhairychest]

@Instinctive - I don't know any responsible parent who would be happy for their kid to play RS and find out they've been learning the RL game of poker and how to gamble playing it. Any parent who would be simply doesn't deserve to be a parent. I certainly don't buy into the liberal, free-range parenting that some adopt including the use of the Internet as a baby-sitting mechanism because parents can't be arsed to engage with their kids.

 

@Ringworld - You obviously don't get it and never will. When you have kids one day you'll understand there are certain responsibilities that go with them. Until then stay safe in the knowledge that regulation only applies to you when you feel like it.

 

@last_to_know - Often children don't use things responsibly. That's why there are age limits for things they can/can't do, including RL gambling. Try a simple experiment - Lots of 14/15 year old kids know how to drive. If you have a car let them drive it unsupervised then.

 

@ginger_warrior - No knowledge doesn't equal addiction so no idea where you're going there. But knowledge in the wrong hands is a dangerous thing. See the response to last_to_know. Shall we also include drug taking in RS as these things are so harmless?

[Ginger_Warrior]

Shall we also include drug taking in RS as these things are so harmless?

Ermm... there is a whole mini quest dedicated to alcohol misuse, yet it's far from harmful; 12% of all Americans will suffer from some form of alcohol dependence at some point during their lives. The reason recreational drugs aren't available in RS is because of their legal status in just about every country the company has operations in. But don't deny that there is already virtual exposure to harmful drugs in the game.

[Lose No Hope]

@last_to_know - Often children don't use things responsibly. That's why there are age limits for things they can/can't do, including RL gambling. Try a simple experiment - Lots of 14/15 year old kids know how to drive. If you have a car let them drive it unsupervised then.

You completely avoided my point... You just said to let them drive if they know how to. You once again put it under the assumption that most children will act irresponsible if they knew how to do something. Once again I'll say, if they aren't mature enough to handle knowing something like how to play poker, they shouldn't be playing runescape.

 

So by your logic, since I KNOW how to smoke, drink, and play texas hold 'em, I'll end up being a compulsive smoker, alcoholic, and gambling addict.

[Jaded]

If they wanted to stop the flower game scam they could make the flowers spawn in your inventory instead of on the ground. Simple fix.

 

Although I've always said they needed gambling in RS, but through a vendor instead of through trust games. It would take so much money out of the economy. Standing at the GE you see just how stupid people are, lining up to give money to a scammer even though there's people crying about being scammed right next to them. On one hand they need to be protected from themselves, on the other "a fool and his money are soon parted." Better kids learn this on RS than with real money.

[Guest jrhairychest]

@Ginger_warrior - Don't shy away from it, you know what I'm talking about. Would drug taking be acceptable in RS (injecting, smoking etc.)? After all if it's so harmless why are you shying away from it?

 

@Ring_World - Parenting isn't an excuse, its a responsibility. I take it seriously as I would be a failed parent if I didn't. I wouldn't be so blithe if my lad played RS, then told me he learned poker from playing it. Why? Because he does what kids do. He's curious. I'd be furious with both him and Jagex. I'll teach him those things when he is ready for it. Right now he isn't mature enough to handle anything like that responsibly so I control his Internet using parenting control software that blocks gambling, porn etc. My religeon has nothing to do with it. Its my responsibility as his parent. When he's 18 he takes his own responsibility for his actions and he can do what he wants to providing its legal and I don't have to pay for it.

 

Did you ever understand the differnce between stylised violence and simulated violence? I let him play games like RS because the violence is comical. However, games that are realistic in gore/violence etc I take a sterner view of them where he is concerned. Poker cannot be made comical unless you make it into something else.

 

A completely different card game that doesn't exist in RL that isn't already used for betting then I'd say fine. Bet your bank away. OT the flower game is completely acceptable IMO. Somehow I don't think I'll have kids betting on the colour of my Zinnias when they sprout in my garden in...oo....3 months time.

 

@Last_to_know

Playing poker and playing runescape hmmmmm....lets see the similarities....one is a betting game that is used in RL and the other is a medieval/fantasy game thats stylised and even looks child like. Theres no comparison to make. Your statement comparing the two is completely ridiculous. How mature do you have to be to play RS because lets be honest its an easy game to play. Go to the rants forum and according to many if you're not a kid then you shouldn't even be playing. This is your own peers talking.

 

I've seen nothing in the RS terms and condition btw that states that my kids will be betting so could you be so good as to point out where there is something?

 

I've already covered some of this in my answer to Ring_world so I'm being a little repetitive here. I am making the point that if you give any child the means to do something you put the tools or the temptation into their hands. Teach an underage kid to drive, he will want to drive more and possibly take your car. Give a kid matches he will want to play with or use them. Give a kid cigarettes they will try them. Teach a kid to play poker and there is a distinct possibility they will want to use that elsewhere. Can you guarantee they won't? You can't. Do you actually pay any attention to things like age restrictions on stuff or are they there to be ignored at your leisure?

 

You state 'So by your logic, since I KNOW how to smoke, drink, and play texas hold 'em, I'll end up being a compulsive smoker, alcoholic, and gambling addict'. For you I have no idea if none, all or some apply. However, you're sounding like this is something that doesn't happen because it hasn't happened to you. Reality check - It can and it does. Only a simpleton would think otherwise.

 

@all - I do realise that I am talking to a probable teenage trio here who doesn't have kids and has that teenage "I'm indestructable, I'll do what I want, don't lecture me I already know it all" mentality. You only think about your own perspectives because that's all you know. That changes when you have to take responsibility for someone elses actions such as your own kids. Mark my words.

[strilmus]

I'm sure that staking in such things as gladitorial battle, chess matches using actual people, and underground cat fights in which you might actually get your cat killed are all shining examples of things that Runescape is discouraging us against!

 

Kind of like that really fun kid's game in which you help a pirate make contraband hooch....

 

Wait, that's still this game.

[Bladewing]

shooting up in runescape is actually harmless :thumbup:

[Pinata]

Ok, you know how if you have a certain amount of weed, you can get charged for "intent to sell", whether or not you were going to sell it. I think Jagex should implement "intent to scam," for all of those hosting flower games, trust game, 2x ur money, dice game, etc. Whether or not that person was going to scam they still can get reported, that would discourage a lot of obvious scammers.

[Monky]

At the end of the day, anyone with a brain (13 year olds or 40 year olds) WILL NOT part with there money without having something traded straight away. Anyone who falls for an illagitimate flower/dice/what ever game, really didnt know the value of money and it would be much better for them to learn it in a virtual world than having that "Nigerian general, wanting to put 20,000 dollars into your bank account" ect phone calls that circulate the lines now adays.

 

Also, may I point out that Jagex, encourages players on more than 1 occasion through out the rules of Runescape (more than likely people who are young, would rather get to the game straight away than to read the regulations of a game... so really, it was brought upon themselves by themselves if they lose any money or items to this game)

 

What I have been doing every time I port to Varrock is to stop next to "flower game" players and advise the people trying to play the game that mithril seeds are available on the Grand Exchange for 400 something gp. Possibly making this issue a tiny bit worse until the inevitable fix comes (personally I think they will be inventory items after planting the seed). But at least, I annoy people standing around taking money for literally nothing...They want everything for nothing, there is merching, flipping, MTK. All viable ways to gain money honestly without the accusation of being a scammer (even the legit guys will get accused).

 

This is just my 2 cents (dunno why i said that im english) so that was my two pennies should I say, as you can see by my join date, Iv seen this game grow from something tiny, to what it became after the mini clip incident where the game got mass attention and a influx in player base. So I feel I do have the right to comment on things like this, but albeit i'm sure there will be someone who disagrees with me.

[strilmus]

I guess there's a difference between getting people to buy stuff that you bought for the intent of tacking on a premium and doing nothing else whatsoever, and getting people to pay for something that they're not getting.

[Guest jrhairychest]

@ring_world

What is it that you don't get?

 

The fact I have ITALC installed so I can actually monitor what he's doing and he doesn't know proxy server? Nice try but the smart arse comments don't wash.

 

That I'm not against card games in RS if you read back through the thread except duplicating something that is COMMERCIALLY available as a RL betting so that what is learned on RS would be used elsewhere? Did you bother to read that?

 

When was the last time you saw a headline with kids betting on catfights? However you'll see articles about kids being able to bet on-line?

 

The fact that you still cannot understand stylised vs real life?

 

The funniest is

And even if it was the case that he would pick up gambling addiction irl from learning card games on runescape I dont think that, that takes away from responsible players fun. If he abuses his privilege of runescape disconnect him, rahter then argue that it is intrinsically evil because it can be abused.

In other words what you're telling me is that you don't actually give a toss if anyone did come out of this with some sort of addiction or there is even a chance of kids using skills taken from RS to use in on-line betting as long as it doesn't spoil your fun. Nice attitude.

 

Of course I'm illogical to you, you're a teenager and you think you know best. I'm a parent and I know you don't. Enough said.

 

@bladewing - Lmao!

[Bladewing]

instead of making it illegal to have drugs/sex/violence in games, we should outlaw people who can't understand the difference between fantasy and reality from playing games

[Monky]

^^^^^

Here here

[Jaded]

I guess there's a difference between getting people to buy stuff that you bought for the intent of tacking on a premium and doing nothing else whatsoever, and getting people to pay for something that they're not getting.

 

Heh, merchanting is a viable way of making money, especially in the age of free trade where people don't have to pay the price if they have patience. But I'm a dirty mercher so I guess I am biased.

 

Oh and the whole world does merchanting, it's called markup. You think Walmart actually pays $20 for that plastic shelf, or do they pay $3/unit to that factory in China, who actually uses 50 cents worth of plastic injected into a mould? Or you think it costs $25k for Louis Vuitton to make a handbag that has maybe $20 worth of materials? As I said, it's a legitimate way to make money in the real and virtual world.

[Erewhon2]

I have been following this thread with interest and finally decided to contribute to the debate going on.

 

People are always looking for an easy win, and often its only experience that tells them there is very rarely any such thing, so you won't stop player being scammed even if its only for 500gp. Take the example of all those hacked accounts by players that used bots previously, that was priceless!

 

With respect to the flower game, this kind of randomised betting has been going on since the beginning of time, and if there is any random element that someone can make a game of they will do, particularly if profit is to made albeit not real. I have no problem with this happening in its various forms using the tools that are in game and appropriate to RS and its presentation.

 

Picking up on the issue of gambling in the form of 'poker'; this wouldn't seem appropriate to the game in any way and I think Jrhairychest made a valid point with his comment about teaching the techniques of playing poker in RS which would appear to promote and justify the concept of commercialised RL gambling. And lets be honest; winning itself is so addictive or the idea of winning. I think that the fantasy and creative games conducted with abstract 'in game' tools is fine, but don't bring RL into RS gameplay!

 

@Bladewing, its rather worrying when people cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality :unsure:

[strilmus]

Just because it works and people endorse it doesn't make it legitimate, it just means that there's a lot of dumb people out there, and everybody else has no issue with exploiting them, to the extend that they're willing to exploit the laws and economics (and willingness of those people to do harmful things for money) of other countries to make it possible.

 

I endorse it too, but with the full understanding that we're monsters because of it

 

it is a disservice to yourself to try to pretend otherwise, like the banker who dresses in nice suits and pretends that he is more important than everybody else

 

and then lays people off due to "financial difficulties" and having done such a great job cleaning that situation up, gives himself the equivalent raise

[Ginger_Warrior]

Picking up on the issue of gambling in the form of 'poker'; this wouldn't seem appropriate to the game in any way and I think Jrhairychest made a valid point with his comment about teaching the techniques of playing poker in RS which would appear to promote and justify the concept of commercialised RL gambling. And lets be honest; winning itself is so addictive or the idea of winning. I think that the fantasy and creative games conducted with abstract 'in game' tools is fine, but don't bring RL into RS gameplay!

Then take out beer, take out violence, take out the deliberately getting NPCs in-game drunk. After all, they might learn how to become alcoholics, sociopaths and date rapists respectively.

 

I'm sorry, but your opinion isn't justification in itself. Prove that there is any connection with someone learning how to play poker, and them becoming compusively addicted to the point of losing thousands on the habit, and prove that this association works both ways (i.e., people participating in gambling-related activities in a virtual environment are more likely to become gambling addicts in reality, and that people who became addicted through "real life" gambling are more likely to seek gambling-related activities when put in a virtual environment).

 

Or is asking for scientific proof not fair?

[Lose No Hope]

instead of making it illegal to have drugs/sex/violence in games, we should outlaw people who can't understand the difference between fantasy and reality from playing games

EXACTLY! I'll say it once more, if someone can't handle learning something without using what they learned irresponsibly, they shouldn't be playing the games at all.

 

@jrhairychest: It doesn't say your character can drink beer to gain strength either does it? Does that mean that it shouldn't be allowed? It says nothing about staking, which is a form of gambling, either. You seem to be focused on the small minority of people who can't handle what they learn from a game in reality.

If your child can't make a distinction between doing something in a video game and doing something in real life, you should be taking extra precautions or at least play the game yourself before they do so you know what they will be seeing.

[Erewhon2]

Just because it works and people endorse it doesn't make it legitimate, it just means that there's a lot of dumb people out there, and everybody else has no issue with exploiting them, to the extend that they're willing to exploit the laws and economics (and willingness of those people to do harmful things for money) of other countries to make it possible.

 

I endorse it too, but with the full understanding that we're monsters because of it

 

it is a disservice to yourself to try to pretend otherwise, like the banker who dresses in nice suits and pretends that he is more important than everybody else

 

and then lays people off due to "financial difficulties" and having done such a great job cleaning that situation up, gives himself the equivalent raise

 

I'm not sure I understand the point you are making here :huh:

 

 

Then take out beer, take out violence, take out the deliberately getting NPCs in-game drunk. After all, they might learn how to become alcoholics, sociopaths and date rapists respectively.

 

I'm sorry, but your opinion isn't justification in itself. Prove that there is any connection with someone learning how to play poker, and them becoming compusively addicted to the point of losing thousands on the habit, and prove that this association works both ways (i.e., people participating in gambling-related activities in a virtual environment are more likely to become gambling addicts in reality, and that people who became addicted through "real life" gambling are more likely to seek gambling-related activities when put in a virtual environment).

 

Or is asking for scientific proof not fair?

 

I understand that my opinion is just that, but I believe that you have missed the point I was making. I said "I have no problem with this happening in its various forms using the tools that are in game and appropriate to RS and its presentation." All of the activities you have identified are 'fantasy' and appropriate to the gameplay and style, my point was teaching inappropriate real life activities. I was not generalising but just picking up on one particular issue that was being debated and I still stand by that.

[Beethovens29]

as im sure other people have said....this is runescape not atlantic city, las vegas, etc. like...gambling seriously?! in runescape?! there's this, and there's also that dice game i've been hearing. and by gambling in runescape i mean those other than the 'gambling' oriented games directly created by jagex. like, if you want the sensation of scamming or winning money, then go out in the real world and do it there.

[Bearded Phil]

I got a whip for half price playing this tonight. Only played three times or so and it was my first time. All in all: Gamblers will gamble and hosts will host games. Play if you want.

[Xanotex]

Everytime I'm in world 2 I just do a small 100k bet, haven't won so far but I like the idea, pretty creative.

 

I can imagine people getting scammed for bigger bets but the 50k/100ks are trustworthy imo. (Unless it's like a lvl 36 with full adamant, if you know what I mean)

[aspeeder]

I just saw someone advertising for a "Seal Game", I guess that's trying to guess the color seal they turn when they do the new Christmas emote. Makes me wonder how many variants will turn up, the only difference seems to be the odds.

 

EDIT: @salad, ah it's the number on the back; it's just crazy how many variants of the same concept are popping up.