Rivers Run Red

[Grim_]

If you need to be told that quitting throughout the game will annoy the hell out of the GM... I've been keeping track for awhile and have been meaning to post it. If you want to go fighter by all means go ahead, just stick well within the rules and pick a semi decent character concept (where does your character come from, what has shaped him/her, why is he/she here in the first place, etc.).

[Earth]

Dueling Fiasco? I don't even want to know. Also, Nex, we didn't screw over your efforts, we found them entirely useless in the situation due to the fact that we had already said we would go and leave them alone. Simple enough at the time, but you wanted to be DIPLOMACY RULES ALL IN A COMPLICATED WAY type of dealie.

[Retech]

I think what Nex was referring to and what I was referring to was the bit on duelling.

 

Hey Nex, if you make a windows live account, I can help you out with your fighter if you'd like. Usually I can find what you're looking for (say you wanted a feat that could do a certain thing, then I could figure it out).

[Corvus]

I think that's fair, Grim. Nex, I think you misunderstand. He isn't giving probation now, but giving a few strikes for previous wrongful or annoying actions. It seems unlikely that you will make another issue, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

 

 

However, in the future, I'd like the GM to just say that "No, you are not allowed to do that" rather than giving out strikes. Like, some GMs are more simulationists that just lets whatever happens to happen, while others lay down the law on stuff. It seems wrong to do both, playing it out and then giving a strike, so could you at least give some warning before you start smacking?

 

To a certain degree yes, its nice just to get warnings, however in some cases it most certainly does not work. the most obvious, if a player suddenly breaks character to begin a fight with another player, stalling the game completely when a sizeable portion of the players are openly telling them to stop being stupid so that the group can get back to playing and having fun, it is fully valid to give a punishment to the players, as there is most certainly no "me and him" in Team

 

Most Tabletop RPGs are meant to be games where everyone has fun together, with some degree of (reletively) friendly competition between characters, not a game where you have to be better than everyone else at the table and be the focus of everything, instead you work together to have fun creating an interesting and unique story.

Edited April 30, 2011 by wyvren2000

[Retech]

Actually, that was completely unrelated in regards to the duel. It was actually triggered when he said that he was going to randomly betray and murder me to steal my stuff (which was somewhat justified at the time), because he thought that since it was my idea for the attack on the fortress, then I should have to pay the party expenditures that we incurred when we were defeated.

 

So instead, I challenged him to a duel to ensure a fair fight, rather than a backstab. If being told that one was going to be backstabbed at anytime by a chaotic rogue is not a fair reason for anyone save the most lawful good paladin to duel, then I don't now what is. It wasn't related to how strong or optimized characters were at all. I wasn't given much support by the party to stop the backstabbing at all, so I took it into my own hands.

[Nexaduro]

Still don't get why my making a character background is so very essential, Earth doesn't, don't think Ross does, haven't seen any from ICU (though I suppose he usually goes back and edits them in stuff).

 

I just want to play and have fun, so I'm going to do something that doesn't involve Earth's RRRRRRRRAGE or Retech's spite getting in my way. Honestly, they're the people I have trouble with, and that's probs because I actually know and talk to them/am friends/semi-friends with them in the outside world. :mellow:

[Earth]

Whats that about my rage, Nex? Also, I don't make a bakstory because I'd mess it up and cause more confusion along the way, which wastes everyones time. I have my reasons for being there, and my character is based off of what the character is made to be.

[Alg]

Whats that about my rage, Nex? Also, I don't make a bakstory because I'd mess it up and cause more confusion along the way, which wastes everyones time. I have my reasons for being there, and my character is based off of what the character is made to be.

Similarly, I'd feel inclined to change it based on how I play the character. Don't like setting it ahead of time because I know I'll end up retconning it.

[Nexaduro]

*Sigh*

 

I really don't intend to get into conflict with anyone, you know. I'll even play Lawful Good this time around, and I promise I won't be stupid about it.

 

Though that goes agitatingly bad with my Scythe motif.

[Corvus]

Whats that about my rage, Nex? Also, I don't make a bakstory because I'd mess it up and cause more confusion along the way, which wastes everyones time. I have my reasons for being there, and my character is based off of what the character is made to be.

Similarly, I'd feel inclined to change it based on how I play the character. Don't like setting it ahead of time because I know I'll retcon it.

 

You dont need to assign your Character's back story Ahead of time, it is something that you can continue to develop as you go along. (though it is usually helpful to have a very simple backstory atleast when you start to keep the character somewhat consistant)

 

Edit: When was the last time you read a book or for that matter used any sort of media that you knew every detail of the main character from the moment the Story started and that there was nothing in the past that you did not know about them?

Edited April 30, 2011 by wyvren2000

[Alg]

Hooray for half elves having that whole wandering adventurer cliche going for them :thumbup:

 

I'm still fairly new to RP, especially D&D-type games :razz: Guessing that there are some traits and personalities that won't work in a multiplayer setting though. Roleplaying a controlling douchebag is going to ruin the fun for everyone else, just as much as a chaotic evil berserker that ruins everything for other players via violence-fueled raging.

[Grim_]

Retech... there is something known as a happy medium between powergaming and moderating yourself to character concepts. Quite frankly I would not like to use ANY third party books for balance issues. I would say that the priest class isn't exactly balanced either. If you want a buffing cleric then play a buffing cleric, third party is pretty much always a bad idea (case in point; fursona, without ANY real min/maxing I can get +10 strength at character start up).

 

Mask: I would say that you just want to have a basic idea of what motivates your character and what he/she has been through as well as any goals that may pertain.

[Nexaduro]

Character sheet done. May be subject to near-future change to a nicer format. :lol:

 

Tell me what you think. I have a basic idea for the background too.

 

Beatrice Altor

[hide]

Female Aasimar Fighter 4 | [Lawful Good] Description

Age 16

Looks White w/ Halo hair, Blue eyes

Height/Weight 5'6" tall, 100lbs. (Medium)

Homeland The River Kingdom

Deity Trithereon

Campaign Kingmaker

Representing Nexaduro

Strength 18 (+4) Hit Points

HP 42

Current HP

 

 

Dexterity 16 (+3)

Constitution 13 (+1)

Intelligence 13 (+1)

Wisdom 10 (+0)

Charisma 10 (+0)

 

Initiative +3 = 3 [Dex]

Action Points (Lifetime) 8

Skills

SKILL Total + Ability Mod. + Ranks + Misc.

Acrobatics* +3 = DEX 3+0+0

Appraise +1 = INT 1+0+0

Bluff +0 = CHA 0+0+0

Climb* +4 = STR 4+0+0

Craft +1 = INT 1+0+0

Craft +1 = INT 1+0+0

Craft +1 = INT 1+0+0

Diplomacy +4 = CHA 0+2+0+2 [Aasimar]

Disable Device* +3 = DEX 3+0+0

Disguise +0 = CHA 0+0+0

Escape Artist* +3 = DEX 3+0+0

Fly* +3 = DEX 3+0+0

Handle Animal +4 = CHA 0+1+3

Heal +0 = WIS 0+0+0

Intimidate +4 = CHA 0+1+3

K (Arcana) +1 = INT 1+0+0

K (Dungeoneering) +5 = INT 1+1+3

K (Engineering) +1 = INT 1+0+0

K (Geography) +1 = INT 1+0+0

K (History) +1 = INT 1+0+0

K (Local) +1 = INT 1+0+0

K (Nature) +1 = INT 1+0+0

K (Nobility) +1 = INT 1+0+0

K (Planes) +1 = INT 1+0+0

K (Religion) +1 = INT 1+0+0

Linguistics +1 = INT 1+0+0

Perception +4 = WIS 0+2+0+2 [Aasimar]

Perform +0 = CHA 0+0+0

Perform +0 = CHA 0+0+0

Profession +0 = WIS 0+0+0

Profession +0 = WIS 0+0+0

Ride +7 = DEX 3+1+3

Sense Motive +4 = WIS 0+4+0

Sleight of Hand* +3 = DEX 3+0+0

Spellcraft +1 = INT 1+0+0

Stealth* +3 = DEX 3+0+0

Survival +0 = WIS 0+0+0

Swim* +4 = STR 4+0+0

Use Magic Device +0 = CHA 0+0+0

 

 

* Armor Check Penalty -1

Trained Only

 

 

Equipment

Weight: 10 lbs.

Gold: -350 (debt to Archi)

 

 

Notes

 

Base Speed [ 30 (6 sq.) ]

 

AC [17] = 10 + 4 [MW Chain Shirt] +3 [Dex]

Touch AC [13] Flat-Footed [14]

 

Base Attack Bonus +4

Basic Melee Attack +8

Basic Ranged Attack +7

 

Weapon Attack Bonus Critical

Heirloom Adamantine Keen Scythe +1 +3 19-20/x4

P or S 2d4 +1

Type Range Ammo Damage

 

Fortitude Save +5 = 4 [base] +1 [Con]

Reflex Save +4 = 1 [base] +3 [Dex]

Will Save +1 = 1 [base] +0 [Wis]

 

CMB +8 = 4 [bAB] +4 [str] +0

CMD +21 = 4 [bAB] +4 [str] +3 [Dex] +0 + 10

 

Feats

Combat Expertise

Improved Trip

Power Attack

Weapon Focus

Weapon Specialization

 

Traits

Threatening Defender

Heirloom Weapon

 

Carrying Capacity

Light Load: 100lbs.

Medium Load: 200lbs.

Heavy Load: 300lbs.

Lift Over Head: 300lbs.

Lift Off Ground: 600lbs.

Push or Drag: 1,500lbs. Languages

Common

1 Bonus Language (Int)

 

 

 

Special Abilities

Aasimar

Racial Abilities:

 

 

Fighter

Armor Training 1

Bravery

3 Bonus Combat Feats

 

 

 

Hit Points 42

+9 [Fighter lvl 1] +1 [Con]

+7 [Fighter lvl 2] +1 [Con]

+8 [Fighter lvl 3] +1 [Con]

+10 [Fighter lvl 4] +1 [Con]

+4 [Favored Class][/hide]

[Grim_]

Getting past some fluff problems like Trithereon not being in any setting outside of Greyhawk, how in the hell did you afford a +3 keen Adamantine scythe? That would cost a total of 32,000 gold if I remember the formula I used correctly, 18,000 if you factored in the heirloom bonuses to it. On a related note, exactly what do the bonuses next to the scythe mean? The bonuses to hit with it? The enchantment bonus? Also, 18 strength and yet still only 100 pounds? That would mean that your character would be capable of lifting three times her own body weight over her head. You can go with it I suppose but it doesn't really make sense to me. I will edit more in when I have the time to (need to do something for a bit).

[Retech]

Retech... there is something known as a happy medium between powergaming and moderating yourself to character concepts. Quite frankly I would not like to use ANY third party books for balance issues. I would say that the priest class isn't exactly balanced either. If you want a buffing cleric then play a buffing cleric, third party is pretty much always a bad idea (case in point; fursona, without ANY real min/maxing I can get +10 strength at character start up).

 

Mask: I would say that you just want to have a basic idea of what motivates your character and what he/she has been through as well as any goals that may pertain.

 

I figured that it was alright, since the artificer was allowed last game as well.

 

If you (Grim) feel strongly about it, I can switch back to a cleric, but this is the last change that I would be making. My character sheet has already been through at least 10 iterations.

[Nexaduro]

Woah woah woah hold on there Grim. This is ALL STUFF DIRECTLY FROM THE SRD (except for the bit about Trithereon, I wish you'd told me when I made my other two characters with him as their deity). Look it up.

 

The Keen Scythe is +1, or +2 or whatever because suddenly people are saying you need to spend an extra 2000 first. Please clarify that. What do you mean, Heirloom Bonus? The +3 was what it would actually get from attack rolls, unless I miscounted and Masterwork doesn't stack with Magic Weapon bonuses. Please clarify that as well. It says clearly in the SRD that anyone with 18 Strength can lift 100 lbs.

 

Please stop criticizing before examining my claims, just because I made a few unreasonable ones in the recent past.

 

You've seen that character sheet format countless times, unless I'm the only one to have copy/pasted from the Trovetokens character generation... And I do not believe I am.

 

What are the 'fluff problems' other than Trithereon? The Halo? Says that Aasimar often have those, and metallic hair, on their description for use as Player Characters.

 

Please try to answer all my questions this time, though I understand if it's too much to do all at once.

[Retech]

1. Masterwork bonus doesn't stack with enhancement bonus for being a magical weapon

2. You need to have a weapon with +1 first before adding on keen and the other enhancements. So like, a keen scythe +1 would be equivilant to a scythe +2, which costs 8000 gp + cost of the scythe.

 

Generally when you write down the items, just write down the objective enhancement bonus and stuff, then add the heirloom trait bonus later. So basically, with 6000 gp, there isn't really a way to get a keen scythe atm (It was my fault too for not understanding this earlier).

[Nexaduro]

Damn it, guess I misread.

 

Heirloom Adamantine Scythe +1 still isn't bad I suppose. Gives me more time to think about enchantments too.

 

Also, does anyone know how to gain more attacks with a 2-handed weapon?

[Retech]

Combat reflexes gives more AoO.

[Nexaduro]

I mean more actual attacks in a round. <_<

[Retech]

Cleave/Great Cleave gives more attacks if you hit.

[Nexaduro]

I mean against ONE target.

[Retech]

Aside from natural attacks or improving your BAB, nothing that I have in mind atm.

[Nexaduro]

Ah, c'est la vie I suppose.

 

For now I'll work with what I've been given.

 

Also, some changes.

 

Beatrice Altor

[hide]Female Aasimar Fighter 4

Lawful Good

Age 16

Looks: White hair w/ halo, Blue eyes

Height/Weight: 5'6" tall, 100lbs. (Medium)

Homeland: The River Kingdom

Deity: Pelor

Campaign: Kingmaker

Representing Nexaduro

HP 42

 

Strength 18 (+4)

Dexterity 16 (+3)

Constitution 13 (+1)

Intelligence 13 (+1)

Wisdom 10 (+0)

Charisma 10 (+0)

 

Skills

Diplomacy +4 = CHA 0+2+0+2 [Aasimar]

Handle Animal† +4 = CHA 0+1+3

Intimidate +4 = CHA 0+1+3

K (Dungeoneering)† +5 = INT 1+1+3

Perception +4 = WIS 0+2+0+2 [Aasimar]

Ride +7 = DEX 3+1+3

Sense Motive +4 = WIS 0+4+0

 

Equipment

Weight: 10 lbs.

Gold: -350 (debt to Archi)

 

Notes

 

Base Speed [ 30 (6 sq.) ]

 

AC [17] Touch AC [13] Flat-Footed [14]

 

Base Attack Bonus +4

Basic Melee Attack +8

Basic Ranged Attack +7

 

Weapon: Heirloom Mithral Scythe +1

Attack Bonus: +4

Critical: x4

Type: P or S

Damage: 2d4 +4

 

Fortitude Save +5 = 4 [base] +1 [Con]

Reflex Save +4 = 1 [base] +3 [Dex]

Will Save +1 = 1 [base] +0 [Wis]

 

CMB +8 = 4 [bAB] +4 [str] +0

CMD +21 = 4 [bAB] +4 [str] +3 [Dex] +0 + 10

 

Feats

Combat Expertise

Improved Trip

Power Attack

Weapon Focus

Weapon Specialization

 

Traits

Threatening Defender

Heirloom Weapon

 

Carrying Capacity

Light Load: 100lbs.

Medium Load: 200lbs.

Heavy Load: 300lbs.

Lift Over Head: 300lbs.

Lift Off Ground: 600lbs.

Push or Drag: 1,500lbs.

 

Languages:

Common

Celestial

Sylvan

 

Special Abilities

 

Aasimar

Racial Abilities:

Darkvision: 60 feet

Skilled: +2 racial bonus Diplomacy and Perception

Spell-Like Ability: Daylight 1/day

Celestial Resistance

 

Weapon Master Fighter

Weapon Training 1: Scythe

Weapon Guard

 

Hit Points 42

+9 [Fighter lvl 1] +1 [Con]

+7 [Fighter lvl 2] +1 [Con]

+8 [Fighter lvl 3] +1 [Con]

+10 [Fighter lvl 4] +1 [Con]

+4 [Favored Class][/hide]

 

I would ask what the price for a Mithral Scythe would be, it goes by weight and a Scythe is quite obviously not all metal. I'd say half-half would probably be fair, if inaccurate. So 2500 GP? 2200 with Heirloom?

[Corvus]

Woah woah woah hold on there Grim. This is ALL STUFF DIRECTLY FROM THE SRD (except for the bit about Trithereon, I wish you'd told me when I made my other two characters with him as their deity). Look it up.

 

The Keen Scythe is +1, or +2 or whatever because suddenly people are saying you need to spend an extra 2000 first. Please clarify that. What do you mean, Heirloom Bonus? The +3 was what it would actually get from attack rolls, unless I miscounted and Masterwork doesn't stack with Magic Weapon bonuses. Please clarify that as well. It says clearly in the SRD that anyone with 18 Strength can lift 100 lbs.

 

Please stop criticizing before examining my claims, just because I made a few unreasonable ones in the recent past.

 

You've seen that character sheet format countless times, unless I'm the only one to have copy/pasted from the Trovetokens character generation... And I do not believe I am.

 

What are the 'fluff problems' other than Trithereon? The Halo? Says that Aasimar often have those, and metallic hair, on their description for use as Player Characters.

 

Please try to answer all my questions this time, though I understand if it's too much to do all at once.

 

Generally the standard tactic is to not argue with the DM, but let me try to provide an explanation of this:

1) You cannot just go taking gods from unrelated campaign settings as they do not actually exist (you can though request for the DM to allow you to worship the domains of the god for powers if you are a cleric)

2) as I had stated previously and Retech has so kindly explained you must take atleast a +1 Enchantment bonus (has a limit of +5) before applying a special ability to a weapon, and you get either an enhancement bonus OR a special abillity NOT both.(magic weapons and armor are valid within this range: [+1 enchant] to [+5 enchant +5 ability ... +1 enchant +9 ability]

Here is a diagram I made, the green squares are valid magic weapons or armor, Red squares are not valid magic weapons or armor(atleast during regular game play, some are possible during Epic level gameplay):

3) He was Complaining that you Character weighed only 100 pounds which is exceptionally light when you could carry something that weighed as much as you without any degree of encumberance and max out at several times your own body weight. Essentially: When is the last time you have seen a 5'-6" tall professional body builder who only weighed 100lbs?

 

On the subject of Grim requesting that the Priest class not be used, it is because the class is an exceptionally well written example of the standard 3rd party sourcebook content, being that it is broken in terms of game balance, but does an amazing job hiding that fact behind its similarities to the Cleric class until it is inspected in detail:

Cons: d8 -> d6 hit die, lack of medium armor proficency, slow Attack progression

Pros: bonus knowledge domain, 1-15 additional spells a day depending on level, Bardic knowledge, channel energy d6->d8 dice, +4 skill points/level, and can spontanously cast Domain spells in addition to healing/inflict spells

Also to make things more complicated all of the negative aspects of taking Priest instead of Cleric can be fixed with the intelligent use of feats, with the exception of the attack bonus progression which the far improved spellcasting offsets

Edited April 30, 2011 by wyvren2000