Casey Heynes

[Low C]

Nothing gives the bully the right to strike Casey in the face twice. If anything the kid is lucky he wasn't struck back, i'm sure getting body slammed would be less painful than a kid that much bigger than you connecting with punches. Whatever happened before this altercation still doesn't excuse this Richard kids actions, he could have taken it up verbally rather than physically.

[Giordano]

Not a hero, but good for him for standing up for himself.

 

Edit: May have to take back that statement. If this inspires others to do the same, he is :thumbup:

 

Edit Edit: And to anyone saying that Richard was the victim beforehand, just look at him before the fight. Everything about that says he was the antagonist.

I'm not saying Richard was the victim, I am merely suggesting that maybe we shouldn't jump up one kid's ass and exalt another kid based on a 45 second clip. I've heard that Richard's family is pursuing a lawsuit or something of that nature, obviously there are things we don't know.

A lawsuit was filled for a restaurant for not warning customers enough that coffee is indeed hot. There was also a lawsuit where the "Wet Floor" sign was tilted 90 degrees away from the incoming person with an employee moping in clear sight. My point is, just because there's a lawsuit it doesn't mean it has decent previous evidence to help or clear his name.

 

He messed with somebody, got [bleep]ed over it. Doesn't matter who is the true bully in this case, shut the [bleep] up and keep to yourself if you want to avoid conflict.

They won those lawsuits.

 

So by that logic, it would be fair for Casey, who didn't "keep to himself" in this case, to get the [cabbage] beat out of him?

You know what, scratch out my last section...that makes no sense with illogical bullies.

 

And the second lawsuit was not won, for one of my teachers was part of the jury for that particular case and they did not find her claims to be justified. Point is: because you go to court, win or lose, doesn't mean Richard has any sort of moral, innocent/guilty, whatever name you justification. A good book reader and public speaker can make a jury believe anything.

[Danqazmlp]

The problem with analysing this like you guys are doing is that you are forgetting one thing. These are kids. Things change so rapidly and consequences cannot be immediately seen. It also means that there is no single best way to solve a problem. Things get so much more complicated at younger ages.

 

Take for example what happened in my old school. A new guy started our school in year 9, he had a problem with his feet which although minimal and only made him walk slightly with a limp, gave bullies the idea to pick on him. He was bullied for roughly half a year. Teachers couldn't help him as they have no power in the modern world. I will evenly openly admit to throwing insults his way. What eventually helped? Me and a few of my friends started to stick up for him. A guy that I had been in a fight with a year previously decided to try and pick on him. Slowly everybody stopped bullying him. Not because he struck back, not because teachers or parents got involved, but because the lucky chance that somebody else started to bully him. He is now a much liked person around our town.

 

The reason I tell that story is because it is hard to analyse children and their behaviour. Things can change quickly for apparently no reason.

 

Now in this case, the kid who punched and got bodyslammed is now likely to b bullied all through his school life. Whatever he did does not mean he deserves it. He did however, from the video deserve the slam.

 

 

 

The main problem is the lack of power teachers have. If they could actually have access to a worthwhile form of punishment, in my opinion they could deter bullies. But currently, they can do nothing which doesn't just make a bully even more angry towards the victim.

[HeeroValentine]

I don't think the kid is a hero, but I did the same thing he did in his situation.

 

Going to teachers or talking with your folks really doesn't help seeing as you get bullied even more.

But seeing as bullies in general are people with low self esteem, as soon you dominate over the bully...The bully will stop bullying you.

 

Besides kids are strange creatures if you look at them from a Psychological point of view.

They tend to not think about the consequences bullying has on further life.

 

And I agree that teachers don't have any real power now a days.

That's why a lot of kids are starting to turn in a bunch of [bleep]s.

[K4ylan]

The only reason that this doesn't happen too often is that USUALLY the bully is stronger/has a giant ass group of guys behind him.

[Orpheus]

I think Casey was in the right in retaliating, but that could have been problematic if the guy didn't land the way he did. Depending on how he landed, he could have earned some broken bones or in a worst-case scenario, broke his neck.

[Jacks0n]

If anybody defends the bully, you're a [bleep].

[Blankblankblank]

I applaud the lad for defending himself. It's better that he got vindication and showed himself as a guy you can't snipe out of the pack by one quick body slam, then keep getting tormented until he snaps and lets loose his anger in a hail of bullets eh? The whole policy of "fighting, no matter what kind, is wrong" is just so seriously flawed and lazy. There's two sides to every story, but more often then not only one is true. The only thing that policy does is turn self defense into a punishment, and give schools an excuse not to investigate any real forms of bullying.

[Synthox]

At my school they always say to be "assertive" and tell the bully how you feel, which makes the whole [bleep]ing problem worse. They have no god-damn idea. I've been in this situation before, and if someone is teasing you, the only way to make it stop is to hit them in the face so hard, that they don't come back.

[Will H]

At my school they always say to be "assertive" and tell the bully how you feel, which makes the whole [bleep]ing problem worse. They have no god-damn idea. I've been in this situation before, and if someone is teasing you, the only way to make it stop is to hit them in the face so hard, that they don't come back.

 

Yep. I think the biggest problem of all is that teachers are powerless and/or ignorant. When I was younger, my life would have been severely improved if I was given the all clear to punch a bully in the face once and walk away. Half of bullying lies in the actions of the bully, the other half lies in the fear of the school system.

[Resistance]

Well it's a hell of a lot better than jumping up and vilifying one party even though we have no idea what actually happened.

 

Looking at the avaliable information I find it very hard to believe that it is really anything other then what we saw on the video. the video recorder claims that the argument started off with a verbal argument between the two in which Casey called Ritchard a [bleep] (.1) however I find it very odd that Ritchard doesn't make any allusion to this in his interview only claiming that Casey said 'get to class you idiot' (.2)

If we are going by Ritchards story, he claimed that he punched Casey in the face because he said 'get to class you idiot', I don't think that 'I don't know he just kind of made me angry' is an excuse for punching somebody in the face.

Its worth noting that in the raw video Casey is punched three times before actually choosing to retaliate, this behaviour displays and unwillingness to fight.

(4.) The mother even says that he got what he deserved, If the mother was aware of any of the bullying then maybe she would at least support her child.

 

I am finding it very hard to support Ritchards point of view.

 

 

 

 

^{1. Ritchard Gale and Fight Video Recorder (Witness) - Today Tonight Inteview}

^{2. Ritchard Gale (Bully Of Casey Heynes) Interview with Today Tonight, Channel 7.}

^{3. Casey Heynes Interview - The bully victim who fought back, now a hero}

^{4. Casey Heynes - The Bully's Mum says that her son got what he deserved.}

[Vulxai]

I wasn't bullied in school for the reason that I stood up for myself, even if I knew the guy could eat me whole. That is part of the reason I was in the "popular" crowd, you can say. There were less popular kids that didn't like me, and when they took a swing at me, I knocked them down, and got suspended for self-defense (a few occasions through high school). My aunt (who raised me) never punished me as she always told me to defend myself, and that's how I taught my son (who's currently almost 3, and several months ago, a kid was picking on him, so he took him down and put him in a headlock...at 2 years old...).

[The Dark Lord]

At my school they always say to be "assertive" and tell the bully how you feel, which makes the whole [bleep]ing problem worse. They have no god-damn idea. I've been in this situation before, and if someone is teasing you, the only way to make it stop is to hit them in the face so hard, that they don't come back.

 

This.

 

Bullies generally do what they do because they want to get your reaction. If you just tell them that they make you feel sad, then they get what they want.

[demby123]

It's been shown that the majority of bullies immediately quit picking on a particular person as soon as that person starts retaliating, even with the smallest bit of resistance.

Not exactly. Small bits of resistance just escalate things to a fist fight, and the only way to stop the bullying (at least at my old schools) was to either knock out of hurt the bully really badly. If you start a fight with a bully you sure as hell better finish it, or it'll get 10X worse.

[Giordano]

It's been shown that the majority of bullies immediately quit picking on a particular person as soon as that person starts retaliating, even with the smallest bit of resistance.

Not exactly. Small bits of resistance just escalate things to a fist fight, and the only way to stop the bullying (at least at my old schools) was to either knock out of hurt the bully really badly. If you start a fight with a bully you sure as hell better finish it, or it'll get 10X worse.

That's the point.

 

It's also the problem. If you go "too far", you'll be the wrong-do'er from the school's viewpoint.

[demby123]

It's been shown that the majority of bullies immediately quit picking on a particular person as soon as that person starts retaliating, even with the smallest bit of resistance.

Not exactly. Small bits of resistance just escalate things to a fist fight, and the only way to stop the bullying (at least at my old schools) was to either knock out of hurt the bully really badly. If you start a fight with a bully you sure as hell better finish it, or it'll get 10X worse.

That's the point.

 

It's also the problem. If you go "too far", you'll be the wrong-do'er from the school's viewpoint.

Which will, at best, result in temporary punishment...

[Vulxai]

Depending on the bully, simply sticking up for yourself is enough. Not all bullies have the ability (for lack of better word) to fight, they just talk a game to be cool, and to get a reaction, and once that reaction stops, they don't know what to do. I've seen this more often than not.

[Kimberly]

Kids are going to fight. Kids are going to pick on eachother. And everyone will eventually snap under those conditions. I don't condemn him for finally reaching his breaking point, and I feel sympathy with him having been bullied myself a lot as a kid. But I will never sing the praises of kids who retaliate against bullies, because it's still not right and teaches the wrong things to kids who can't grasp the difference.

 

(I'm going to be a terrible parent probably.)

[Orpheus]

Kids are going to fight. Kids are going to pick on eachother. And everyone will eventually snap under those conditions. I don't condemn him for finally reaching his breaking point, and I feel sympathy with him having been bullied myself a lot as a kid. But I will never sing the praises of kids who retaliate against bullies, because it's still not right and teaches the wrong things to kids who can't grasp the difference.

 

(I'm going to be a terrible parent probably.)

 

If bullies don't know that there's consequences for their actions, when are they going to stop thinking they're above everyone else? When they actually kill someone? When they actually ruin someone else's life or they get arrested for something? When they get killed? And don't pull a slippery slope argument, as a lot of them end up following this exact same chain

[Kimberly]

If bullies don't know that there's consequences for their actions, when are they going to stop thinking they're above everyone else? When they actually kill someone? When they actually ruin someone else's life or they get arrested for something? When they get killed? And don't pull a slippery slope argument, as a lot of them end up following this exact same chain

 

So is it a child's job to teach a bully 'consequences' with their fists?

 

When a parent tells a child to stand up for themselves by fighting, do they really understand what they're sanctioning, what they're sending their child into? Will they really learn the value of self-confidence if they come out of a fight with a broken nose, broken bones, concussions, or anything of the sort? And if they lose that fight? Tell me, who was hurt more then, the bully or the victim?

[Ginger_Warrior]

Furthermore, there will be times in life where other people make your life a tragic misery. Usually when you're younger and you don't have the experience to land yourself positions in senior management, but even when you do get to the top there will be people out to pick on your flaws.

 

Does retaliating against a bully on a school playground really set a good precedent for later life? Say your boss is expecting too much of you because the company's got no money to recruit new staff and you're having to cover. Punching his lights out would clearly put you in the better position there, obviously.

 

I was bullied at school too--username probably gives that much away to be honest--but I'd like to think I'm a better person than them for not resorting to the same belief that personal problems are solved by violence and intimidating others into submission.

[The Dark Lord]

If bullies don't know that there's consequences for their actions, when are they going to stop thinking they're above everyone else? When they actually kill someone? When they actually ruin someone else's life or they get arrested for something? When they get killed? And don't pull a slippery slope argument, as a lot of them end up following this exact same chain

 

So is it a child's job to teach a bully 'consequences' with their fists?

 

When a parent tells a child to stand up for themselves by fighting, do they really understand what they're sanctioning, what they're sending their child into? Will they really learn the value of self-confidence if they come out of a fight with a broken nose, broken bones, concussions, or anything of the sort? And if they lose that fight? Tell me, who was hurt more then, the bully or the victim?

 

What else do you suggest? Bullies are neither empathetic nor are they reasonable. You usually can't just sit and talk with a bully and resolve it peacefully. Walking away works sometimes but can be taken as a sign of submission, which can make it worse.

 

And from experience when I was in middle school, teachers don't do much to help. Hell, some don't do anything at all, and it can even get the victim in trouble, especially if the bully is female and the victim is male.

[muggiwhplar]

I remember in preschool, an older kid started pushing me around, so I punched him in the face >_> When the preschool called my mom, she freaked out and grounded me. When she told my dad, he pulled me aside and congratulated me :lol: Never had any problems w/ that kid again... lol

 

I don't see anything wrong with victims retaliating violently to bullying, as long as the violence isn't too extreme and it only happens once. Bullies don't pick on kids who retaliate-- they find other victims who are easier to bully around (assuming they decide to continue bullying others).

[Orpheus]

If bullies don't know that there's consequences for their actions, when are they going to stop thinking they're above everyone else? When they actually kill someone? When they actually ruin someone else's life or they get arrested for something? When they get killed? And don't pull a slippery slope argument, as a lot of them end up following this exact same chain

 

So is it a child's job to teach a bully 'consequences' with their fists?

 

When a parent tells a child to stand up for themselves by fighting, do they really understand what they're sanctioning, what they're sending their child into? Will they really learn the value of self-confidence if they come out of a fight with a broken nose, broken bones, concussions, or anything of the sort? And if they lose that fight? Tell me, who was hurt more then, the bully or the victim?

 

Adults and teachers are useless in this scenario. THEY NEVER HELP. YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF THIS.

 

I was subjected to such a fate. I tried getting help. Too bad help never came. Adults are useless. Teachers are useless. Hell, even your parents are ultimately useless. Very few will actually act on it for fear of getting sued or something. I tried to stay pacifistic until they actually attacked. I had to fight then, there was no negotiations at that point. It was either fight back, or die. I had a broken nose and ring finger after that debacle, they lost an eye and probably their ability to reproduce. Case in point, if you have to fight, fight dirty. I'd advise against it if it can be avoided, but sometimes, that option just isn't available. As for fighting dirty, don't be afraid to hit them in the groin, hit them in the eye, use whatever object is lying around, etc.

 

Bullies are not human beings in a sense in that they are not very nice nor have any form of empathy or reason. There is no reasoning with them. Force is the only thing that'll stop them.

[The Dark Lord]

I was subjected to such a fate. I tried getting help. Too bad help never came. Adults are useless. Teachers are useless. Hell, even your parents are ultimately useless. Very few will actually act on it for fear of getting sued or something.

 

Personal experience of mine...

 

When I was in middle school, a group of girls would tease me and spread rumors that I was gay. Hell, some of them even had their boyfriends anonymously call me and tell me that they were going to kill me. I reported this at school and guess what happened? Nothing. Not even over a death threat.

 

I even knew who these girls were and asked the principal to do something about it. The girls were brought in and started making false accusations that I was harassing and threatening them and that they never did any of these things to me. Pure [cabbage]. But you know what happened? The administration sided with the girls. They did so because they were girls and I was a guy. I even had a record of being a well-mannered, non-hostile student who made good grades.

 

What ultimately happened was that my self-esteem dropped due to constant harassment as well as my grades. I eventually changed schools and haven't had trouble ever since; my self-esteem is now pretty high and I do well academically and socially.

 

Anyway, the point is that in most cases, school staff fail to do much to help victims of school bullying. A lot of times, at least in a victim's eyes, is that they have to do something drastic. Usually it may be physical retaliation, and it may be more extreme (school shootings, suicide, etc). I'd only recommend any future children of mine to use physical retaliation when the bully is harming them and they have to do so in order to escape, but I do empathize with what others may go through. I'd also rather have my child sent home for knocking a bully's lights out rather than becoming depressed and making me worried that they might harm themselves.