Scammers

[Nash]

While checking prices of materials at the GE to decide what skill to work on next I saw somebody performing the infamous "Doubling Money" scam. For some reason or another Ive always been curious as to what peoples "logging out" price was; as in, how much money they need to receive from others before they log out, thus completing the scam (for that world anyways). Therefore I went over to him and traded them 15k. As a result the person asked me to follow them as they needed to go get something out of the bank, walked into a crowd of people standing by the GE people and proceeded to log out. I quickly added them to my friends list and discovered they werent clever enough to turn their private chat to Friends Only and began to message him once he had hopped to another world.

 

I started off with asking him "why would you scam somebody over 15k?" and "Is 15k enough money for you to risk getting muted and possibly perm muted?". He responded saying "Im sorry I just really need the cash, I really want a whip".

 

Then I asked him if he was making over 100k p/hr from scamming people at the GE. To my suprise he said hed be lucky to make that in an hour scamming people. After that I was amazed that at his combat level (84) he knew of no money making methods that would make him over 100k per hour besides scamming. So I asked him to meet me on my home world (99 :shades: ) and I told him Id show him a few ways to make money at his level that wouldnt require breaking any rules.

 

First I took him to the Chaos Druids Resource Dungeon and explained once he got the hang of it he could be making 200k p/hr there (he was shocked)

Then I explained to him once he had about 1m that he could buy a cannon and go to green dragons and make over 500k p/hr (even more shocked)

 

I also explained to him how to make money gathering items that spawn in certain places (white berries) as well as Mort Myre Fungus (if he gets the quests done).

 

Once I was done explaining this to him (and having him write it all down in his RS Notepad) and lending him a whip for 24 hours he couldnt stop thanking me. He obviously asked why I was being so nice to him after he had scammed me 15k and I explained that everyone has been where he is at one time or another.

 

My point is, we all started playing this game as clueless as him. Sure some of us on these forums can pretend to be high and mighty and say they never scammed while playing an online game but the truth is, the majority has been at that same point; uninformed and desperate to get further along in the game but have no money. OR EVEN WORSE; told that cutting yews and magics and mining coal is the best way to make money and to continue doing that. If mining coal really WAS the best way to make money, I know id probably rather scam and avoid getting arthritis in my fingers from clicking a stupid rock for hours on end.

 

 

I suppose tomorrow he could be back to scamming and never even take into consideration the things I taught him, but for the purpose of this thread lets assume he does listen to me. Doesnt informing them help alot more than leaving them in the dark and just mute them for a few days?

 

 

Discuss.

[Urbex]

Not all scamming is done through trades and flower games. Theres phishers, RATs, and recovery scams which are all usually done for RWT. I'd certainly consider those people "scum".

[Salad]

I would just try to redirect him to this page:

 

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Money_making

 

Possibly the best ressource people like him could hope for.

[Carl]

They're scum, nothing more. Most of the higher level ones are more than likely bought accounts. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if that one you were talking to was. For someone to get to level 84 and not know how to make over 100k per hour is very suspicious.

 

I'll tell you, I have a jolly time shutting their doubling rackets down.

[Nash]

Not all scamming is done through trades and flower games. Theres phishers, RATs, and recovery scams which are all usually done for RWT. I'd certainly consider those people "scum".

 

True and I agree those certainly are more malicious scams and not usually done by the average Scaper but more or less RWTers. Those would be scum in my book as well.

 

 

I would just try to redirect him to this page:

 

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Money_making

 

Possibly the best ressource people like him could hope for.

 

Lol I wish I would have known about this link... It would have saved me 30minutes of walking him through things. Thanks :P

 

 

They're scum, nothing more. Most of the higher level ones are more than likely bought accounts. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if that one you were talking to was. For someone to get to level 84 and not know how to make over 100k per hour is very suspicious.

 

I'll tell you, I have a jolly time shutting their doubling rackets down.

 

I actually didnt discover ways of making 100k+ P/hr until I was around lvl 80 and finally joined this community to be honest. Did I buy my account? No. But I can tell you I didnt have much fun getting my Santa hat from cutting yews :wall: (santa was 500k at the time I think so it took me like 1.5k yew logs).

 

I just wonder if leading them to the runewiki link Salad provided instead of muting them would give better long term results.

 

Remember I still think that Scamming = Bad, im just opening a decent discussion about scammers since most of the topics lately have been about them being just as evil as middle aged men rapeing little girls.

[Urbex]

They're scum, nothing more. Most of the higher level ones are more than likely bought accounts. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if that one you were talking to was. For someone to get to level 84 and not know how to make over 100k per hour is very suspicious.

 

I'll tell you, I have a jolly time shutting their doubling rackets down.

Back in '05 I made it to level 83, with a granite plate & DDS by only selling resources to stores. Of course, this was before the addition of the GE.

Don't underestimate the incompetence of ten year olds.

[K4ylan]

There was no granite plate in '05

[Urbex]

There was no granite plate in '05

Thats when I started playing, not when I quit in '07.

[Nash]

They're scum, nothing more. Most of the higher level ones are more than likely bought accounts. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if that one you were talking to was. For someone to get to level 84 and not know how to make over 100k per hour is very suspicious.

 

I'll tell you, I have a jolly time shutting their doubling rackets down.

Back in '05 I made it to level 83, with a granite plate & DDS by only selling resources to stores. Of course, this was before the addition of the GE.

Don't underestimate the incompetence of ten year olds.

 

Lol I think the last time Carl had to sell stuff to the gen store to make enough money for rune was in the RSC days so he might not remember that as vividly as you and I might. But I agree, the kid wasnt the best with sentence structure so I can only imagine his age was pretty young.

 

There was no granite plate in '05

 

No but there was a rune platebody thats street price didnt go much lower than its store price which was 84k if i can remember correctly (which costs more than a granite plate anyways). Hes just proving a point, please refrain from spamming/trolling other contributors to the thread.

[Carl]

Gah, had a lot wrote out and backspaced...Lost my train of thought, now.

 

Okay...Going by experience, a doubler who doesn't know any better ways at making money is a rare sight. I'm a merchant and the Grand Exchange is my home, I spend every hour I'm online there, and do not stray far. Since the reintroduction of Free Trade, hundreds of scammers have passed through my sights in World 99 alone. The vast majority of doublers are indeed aware of what they're doing entirely... Knowledgeable of the fact that any wealth they obtain has been ill-gotten and they know there are honest ways of making more than 100k p/h. They come prepared with high-value items (Partyhats, etc. Borrowed, mostly.), an auto typer and a lot of the time a friend or two to help them lure people in. It's not just them saying "Doubling Cash", it's them pretending to double honestly...but for their friends.

 

Many have high value items that they do own (Bandos, etc. High-value to them, anyway.) so there's no doubting that they have made a sum somewhat legitimately.

 

You came across one person who wasn't aware of any better methods, but there are so many more. And I can honestly say that in this day and time...They couldn't get to level 84 without knowing how to make money. Free Trade has only been with us for 2 months, remember that. Before that there was none of this, so they would have had to get themselves going somehow. But now? Why bother. You can make money easier with far less effort by taking it from others.

 

I've seen these scum go from begging one minute to doubling another, with claims that they're "legit"...

 

 

They will never see my good side, I'm not going to waste my time personally offering to show them better means of money making, as many run at the sign of a Moderator. Those that don't have some balls, those that continue get shut down. It's disgusting to see, if I'm honest. And the ones out to earn their first whip are no better than those out to make a living. Dishonesty is not a good policy.

 

And yes, it has been a long time Cowboy, but not that long! :P

[ilovecuttingyews]

The sad thing is that, even in F2P well over 50% of scammers are P2Pers who are mid-high levels (80-110 usually). I would 'understand' if it was F2Pers because we don't have better money making methods, but even a level 3 can make hundreds of K more 'manually' than through scamming in P2P.

 

EDIT: Copy and paste what Carl (Newb) just said and put my name on it and you have my opinion.

[highlanders]

This game has a big learning curve. When I started playing I was young and clueless, but even then I never considered scamming people. Some people's first instinct is to scam/lure/deceive other people, I guess they just have got that kind of opportunistic personality. If you look at small kids in a daycare you notice how each child has their own antics and way to go about things. I was probably the kid drawing a picture, and they were the kids stealing your toys. :lol: Really I don't think trying to "educate" scammers will change anything, at the end of the day they will just fall back to their natural leech selves.

[The Dark Lord]

I actually didnt discover ways of making 100k+ P/hr until I was around lvl 80 and finally joined this community to be honest. Did I buy my account? No. But I can tell you I didnt have much fun getting my Santa hat from cutting yews :wall: (santa was 500k at the time I think so it took me like 1.5k yew logs).

 

For a long time, when I was a noob, I made my cash chopping willows and selling to the general store (didn't know that players paid more) as well as picked up unwanted coins from the ground. Then, for a while, I was hired by a guy to cut him yew logs for under the market price (didn't know this) so he could sell them for profit. He eventually paid me with a rune 2H and full rune armor set.

 

It comes of no surprise that someone would be ignorant about making cash for so long. Personally, I think I got about 60-70 woodcutting before buying membership and learning that cutting magic logs for 100k/hr was a decent moneymaker for a person at my level at that point in time.

 

I then made bank by looting over 3 million in items from a guy's body after he died from poison in Falador, one day before the infamous 6/6/06. And then I got backstabbed by a friend because he was poor after getting scammed and could only afford a dragon skirt, so he borrowed some of my equipment and never gave it back so he could afford dragon legs so he wouldn't "look gay." :rolleyes:

 

Oh the joy of the noob days!

[Lessard]

Scammers are on average 9 years old. Of course they don't know other ways to make money.

[aspeeder]

It might also depend on who he knows while he's leveling up: if all of his "pro" friends scam and cheat for their money that's what he'll know, and other possibilities might never have crossed his mind. But still, 100k per hour is nothing, you'd think they could figure something better out just through trial and error.

[Alphanos]

There are two main questions being addressed here:

 

1) What proportion of scammers simply don't know other ways to make money?

 

2) If you want money, but don't know about other ways to earn it legitimately, is it okay to steal it?

 

I'd say that the first question is mostly irrelevant, since the answer to #2 is no. None of these players are feeding starving families with their ill-gotten gains. Even in the scenario most favourable to them, they can't be bothered to find out how to accumulate cash legitimately, so they just take it through treachery. I would call that pretty scummy.

 

If these are 10 year olds, they're the ones who steal other kids' lunch money 'cause they want more candy.

[DRUMINATOR17]

BOTH.

[Triquos]

All scammers are scum, no matter what the circumstance. I don't care if they were saving up for a whip or a partyhat - to take advantage of others for your own benefit is wrong on so many levels.

[GoldTatze]

The thing I don't get is how can anyone even fall for this. Seriously, how can anyone believe that the lvl 73 or whatever with full addy is doubling large sums of money. No matter how new you are to the game, it just seems ridiculous. Unless you are hanging out right there with your PMod friend and proving he is a scammer by giving him 50K or w/e, it is just pointless.

 

Now, I remember on my first account when I was extremely new to the game, all I actually had good knowledge of was the map (location of cities and such). I would tell people I'll take you to Falador (remember these are too low levels for teleports) if youp ay me x amount of coins. Well I eventually started realising that I could just take the money and not bother showing them. Soon after my account was banned. I then made Goldtatze, and I didn't learn of actual money making methods until around level 75 or so (because the about 2M income from minor things such as clue scrolls and my friends giving me 50k here or there). My most expensive item at the time was a Santa Hat. Well they went for about 400K or so depending where, but usually was in Varrock West bank (where I still sometimes reside), and I just liked it because 400K was a lot for me at least at the time. So I held on to it and it became worth about 40M before I sold it, and learned how I could make money through all the different methods.

 

TL;DR: Scamming is wrong but noobs don't no better and sometimes it is what it is, and I learned how to make money by actually recieving a large sum of money and realising how it works.

[The_Gabe]

I actually didnt discover ways of making 100k+ P/hr until I was around lvl 80 and finally joined this community to be honest. Did I buy my account? No. But I can tell you I didnt have much fun getting my Santa hat from cutting yews :wall: (santa was 500k at the time I think so it took me like 1.5k yew logs).

 

For a long time, when I was a noob, I made my cash chopping willows and selling to the general store (didn't know that players paid more) as well as picked up unwanted coins from the ground. Then, for a while, I was hired by a guy to cut him yew logs for under the market price (didn't know this) so he could sell them for profit. He eventually paid me with a rune 2H and full rune armor set.

 

It comes of no surprise that someone would be ignorant about making cash for so long. Personally, I think I got about 60-70 woodcutting before buying membership and learning that cutting magic logs for 100k/hr was a decent moneymaker for a person at my level at that point in time.

 

I then made bank by looting over 3 million in items from a guy's body after he died from poison in Falador, one day before the infamous 6/6/06. And then I got backstabbed by a friend because he was poor after getting scammed and could only afford a dragon skirt, so he borrowed some of my equipment and never gave it back so he could afford dragon legs so he wouldn't "look gay." :rolleyes:

 

Oh the joy of the noob days!

 

Lmao I was the person hiring people to cut me yews for under marketprice and selling them for a profit.

[Hajutze]

Lmao I was the person hiring people to cut me yews for under marketprice and selling them for a profit.

I had a different tactic (while F2P just after construction was introduced). I was hiring them to buy normal logs from the general shop in Lumbridge and bought them for 20 gp ea ...

[lnfernuus]

The real story here is cowboy14 took a lot of his own time to help a fellow gamer out, even though he was wronged. Sadly I have never seen anyone else do this in the last 4 years.

[Assume Nothing]

I've seen this happen before, and I even helped them make a little money. It's sad that they have no understanding of the rules.

[highlanders]

The real story here is cowboy14 took a lot of his own time to help a fellow gamer out, even though he was wronged. Sadly I have never seen anyone else do this in the last 4 years.

Me and a friend used to go around giving newbs some free money and teaching them a few things. We were curious if they were even going to say "thank you" or follow our advice. A few days later we would check up on their progress, and we would always be greeted with "can I have more money plz?". And they had always returned to whatever it is they were doing before instead of taking our advice because what we had clearly explained was "confusing", "too difficult" or "idk how". That's gratitute for ya :lol: We stopped because it became apparent that they didn't learn. Give a noob a fiver and they want your credit card.

[fatherdeath]

Saying that "I don't know better" is comparable to saying "I wasn't aware of that law". It doesn't hold up IRL, why should it in RS?

 

Bottom line: Anyone can feign ignorance, but those who truly wish to learn will take the initiative.