China Using Prisoners To Farm MMOs

[Blyaunte]

3. I agree that I sort of jumped the gun but I still think it is a reasonable inference from the article. They (prisoners) worked manual labour during the day and gold farmed in the night. If this did not cause sleep deprivation, it did result in severe mental and physical exhaustion. Just because there is no evidence in the article of sleep deprivation does not mean this is suddenly a non issue.

 

Actually it IS a non-issue in this situation. It's not even IMPLIED. You DERIVED this notion yourself. No one or no thing lead you there. You went there all by yourself. In fact, you made it up. Now you're sheepishly trying to validate your ridiculous viewpoint, based on no facts at all, by claiming that it's an issue because hey, since you made it up, it's an issue.

[Blyaunte]

If you did commit some random "crime" like the petitioning mentioned, would to want to be thrown into prison to break rocks and farm gold until you're both physically and mentally exhausted, and then have someone laugh about your situation?

 

If I was in prison playing a video game and I was seeking sympathy for it -- yes, I'd expect people to laugh at me. Wouldn't you? :rolleyes:

 

No.

 

I would say you are wording it wrong.

 

If I was in prison being forced to grind a video game with harsh punishments for not doing so and I was seeking sympathy for it -- yes, I'd expect people to laugh at me. Wouldn't you? :rolleyes:

 

No - I would say I am wording it correctly. Once again, like the others, you're implying something that, really, isn't even in the article. You're trying to equate this thing with some warped derisive vision of something that isn't there. You're letting your imagination run WILD and making up [cabbage] to support your point of view.

[Danqazmlp]

If you did commit some random "crime" like the petitioning mentioned, would to want to be thrown into prison to break rocks and farm gold until you're both physically and mentally exhausted, and then have someone laugh about your situation?

 

If I was in prison playing a video game and I was seeking sympathy for it -- yes, I'd expect people to laugh at me. Wouldn't you? :rolleyes:

 

No.

 

I would say you are wording it wrong.

 

If I was in prison being forced to grind a video game with harsh punishments for not doing so and I was seeking sympathy for it -- yes, I'd expect people to laugh at me. Wouldn't you? :rolleyes:

 

No - I would say I am wording it correctly. Once again, like the others, you're implying something that, really, isn't even in the article. You're trying to equate this thing with some warped derisive vision of something that isn't there. You're letting your imagination run WILD and making up [cabbage] to support your point of view.

 

"If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things," he said

 

If you have read the article, you would have seen that. I am therefore not implying something that isn't in the article, I am not seeing something that isn't there or imagining something, it is you who are doing those things and blindly ignoring parts of the article. This prisoner was forced through punishment to grind games. That is 100% undeniably in the article. They are not 'playing' the games, they are grinding them with harsh punishments if they do not.

[sees_all1]

No - I would say I am wording it correctly. Once again, like the others, you're implying something that, really, isn't even in the article. You're trying to equate this thing with some warped derisive vision of something that isn't there. You're letting your imagination run WILD and making up [cabbage] to support your point of view.

It's not even in the article!

As well as backbreaking mining toil, he carved chopsticks and toothpicks out of planks of wood until his hands were raw and assembled car seat covers that the prison exported to South Korea and Japan. He was also made to memorise communist literature to pay off his debt to society.

"If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things,"

[Blyaunte]

Here's the actual quotes from the man himself:

 

"There were 300 prisoners forced to play games."

 

"We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp."

 

""If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically."

 

"We kept playing until we could barely see things."

 

 

No where in the article is the term "sleep deprivation" mentioned.

 

No where in the article is it determined that he was made to do this "work", constantly, for more than 12 hours a day.

 

No where in the article is there any indication that he was never given breaks.

 

STOP. MAKING. [cabbage]. UP. ALREADY.

 

Seriously!

[sees_all1]

No where in the article is the term "sleep deprivation" mentioned.

 

No where in the article is it determined that he was made to do this "work", constantly, for more than 12 hours a day.

 

No where in the article is there any indication that he was never given breaks.

 

STOP. MAKING. [cabbage]. UP. ALREADY.

 

Seriously!

Then what the hell does

"We kept playing until we could barely see things."

mean?

[Blyaunte]

No where in the article is the term "sleep deprivation" mentioned.

 

No where in the article is it determined that he was made to do this "work", constantly, for more than 12 hours a day.

 

No where in the article is there any indication that he was never given breaks.

 

STOP. MAKING. [cabbage]. UP. ALREADY.

 

Seriously!

Then what the hell does

"We kept playing until we could barely see things."

mean?

 

It means he has poor eyesight? It means the computers had poor graphic cards? It means that his graphics settings were too low for him to handle the gaming environment?

 

No - wait! It means you're making something up! :rolleyes:

[Micromal]

Waterboarding is torture. Being beaten with a rubber hose is torture. There's a long list of things that are torture.

 

Playing a video-game is not on that list. Nor will it ever be.

Where on that list of yours is sleep deprivation?

Hard physical labor > hard physical labor + sleep-depriving forced goldfarming + risk of further torture

 

... and four year old news is four year old news – the world continues to spin on its axis unabated ...

Letting time pass doesn't make things go away. A torturist who get to keep on after a report has been filed is not "innocent" because the reported incident was one of the past.

 

Blyaunte; you generalise when it suits you, and close your eyes when it benefits your point of view. That does not make a strong foundation for an argument.

[DarkDude]

Blyaunte must live somewhere where there's more than 24 hours in the day. Working 12 hours at night and having to do manual labour during the day and still have enough time to sleep correctly? Must be the only explanation.

 

Also, if you think they're playing the game then you're wrong. They are not "playing" anything and you seem to be putting it off as that. While perhaps not physically exhausting having to constantly use a computer for 12 hours straight a night is not in any way fun like you seem to think it is.

 

On top of that, having a terrible graphics card would do nothing at all in terms of eye sight, having a bad monitor would but only because of them having to look at it for 12 hours a day when they're obviously going to be tired after having had to do physical labour all day. I would really love to see you spend all day doing physical labour and then spend 12 hours at night farming gold and see how you do.

 

The main thing here isn't that they're just farming gold in prison, it's that they're doing that on top of having to do manual labour throughout the day and this is causing additional harm to them in a completely different way than just physical work does.

[HunterDexter]

No where in the article is the term "sleep deprivation" mentioned.

 

No where in the article is it determined that he was made to do this "work", constantly, for more than 12 hours a day.

 

No where in the article is there any indication that he was never given breaks.

 

STOP. MAKING. [cabbage]. UP. ALREADY.

 

Seriously!

Then what the hell does

"We kept playing until we could barely see things."

mean?

 

It means he has poor eyesight? It means the computers had poor graphic cards? It means that his graphics settings were too low for him to handle the gaming environment?

 

No - wait! It means you're making something up! :rolleyes:

 

 

I respected you on the forums a long time, but your opinion on this matter made me think otherwise about you.

 

They MUST KEEP ON playing, which causes them to see badly, that's clearly a sign of sleep deprivement. Your eyes and brains get tired of watching a lightened screen for long time, which causes bad sight. If you have to do hard work during the day, and then you got to look for several hours a day directly in a screen, you get ill, and really ill. Your brain and eyes need to get some rest, just as the rest of your body, but they can't, because they must "game" when they should get rest.

 

And saying that they deserve it, is also farfetched, in China, you can get arrested because a relative of yours doesn't support the communist regime, a lot of people there are being put into something we might call concentration camps because they just don't share the same thoughts as the government or have symphaties for the Dalai Lama for example.

It isn't up to us to say about those people that they deserve punishment, I only find the legal system wrong in many countries, including the Chinese, the one of the States, and other so called "democracies".

[Blyaunte]

Waterboarding is torture. Being beaten with a rubber hose is torture. There's a long list of things that are torture.

 

Playing a video-game is not on that list. Nor will it ever be.

Where on that list of yours is sleep deprivation?

Hard physical labor > hard physical labor + sleep-depriving forced goldfarming + risk of further torture

 

... and four year old news is four year old news the world continues to spin on its axis unabated ...

Letting time pass doesn't make things go away. A torturist who get to keep on after a report has been filed is not "innocent" because the reported incident was one of the past.

 

Blyaunte; you generalise when it suits you, and close your eyes when it benefits your point of view. That does not make a strong foundation for an argument.

 

LMAO -- *I* am not the one making up "sleep deprivation" -- the others are. Thanks for making things up. Come back later when you learn to read.

 

Buh bye! :rolleyes:

 

Blyaunte must live somewhere where there's more than 24 hours in the day. Working 12 hours at night and having to do manual labour during the day and still have enough time to sleep correctly? Must be the only explanation.

 

The main thing here isn't that they're just farming gold in prison, it's that they're doing that on top of having to do manual labour throughout the day and this is causing additional harm to them in a completely different way than just physical work does.

 

Once again, you're making things up. READ THE ARTICLE. He says they worked in "12-hour shifts at the camp". NOT 24/7. You're making things up in your wild imagination to suit your "facts" -- but you haven't any.

[Blyaunte]

[hide]

No where in the article is the term "sleep deprivation" mentioned.

 

No where in the article is it determined that he was made to do this "work", constantly, for more than 12 hours a day.

 

No where in the article is there any indication that he was never given breaks.

 

STOP. MAKING. [cabbage]. UP. ALREADY.

 

Seriously!

Then what the hell does

"We kept playing until we could barely see things."

mean?

 

It means he has poor eyesight? It means the computers had poor graphic cards? It means that his graphics settings were too low for him to handle the gaming environment?

 

No - wait! It means you're making something up! :rolleyes:

 

 

I respected you on the forums a long time, but your opinion on this matter made me think otherwise about you.

 

They MUST KEEP ON playing, which causes them to see badly, that's clearly a sign of sleep deprivement. Your eyes and brains get tired of watching a lightened screen for long time, which causes bad sight. If you have to do hard work during the day, and then you got to look for several hours a day directly in a screen, you get ill, and really ill. Your brain and eyes need to get some rest, just as the rest of your body, but they can't, because they must "game" when they should get rest.

 

And saying that they deserve it, is also farfetched, in China, you can get arrested because a relative of yours doesn't support the communist regime, a lot of people there are being put into something we might call concentration camps because they just don't share the same thoughts as the government or have symphaties for the Dalai Lama for example.

It isn't up to us to say about those people that they deserve punishment, I only find the legal system wrong in many countries, including the Chinese, the one of the States, and other so called "democracies".

[/hide]

 

You people are hilarious. In fact, you're all like Superman. You make hyperbolic leaps of logic in a single bound.

 

Again -- read the article. You're leaping to conclusions that ARE NOT provided anywhere in the article. You're ASSUMING things that simply aren't there and then trying to justify them with unfounded "logic".

 

FACTS. FACTS. FACTS. FACTS. FACTS. FACTS. FACTS. FACTS.

 

Again -- once more with feeling -- here's the actual quotes from the man himself:

"There were 300 prisoners forced to play games."

 

"We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp."

 

""If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically."

 

"We kept playing until we could barely see things."

 

NONE of this stuff that you're throwing up here are FACTS -- you've simply read a single article, from someone's point of view, and then made [cabbage] up to support your own wild imagination.

Edited June 1, 2011 by ForsakenMage
Wall of quotes now in hide tags.

[timmmmm83]

@Blyaunte

 

Forcing political prisoners to do 12 hour-shifts EVERY DAY "playing" an online game isn't torture to you? :blink:

 

You know, "forced", as in "against their own free will"...

[Blyaunte]

@Blyaunte

 

Forcing political prisoners to do 12 hour-shifts EVERY DAY "playing" an online game isn't torture to you? :blink:

 

You know, "forced", as in "against their own free" will...

 

Are you serious? Really? Did you read what you just wrote? Do you realize how silly that sounds? If not, read it again.

[timmmmm83]

@Blyaunte

 

Forcing political prisoners to do 12 hour-shifts EVERY DAY "playing" an online game isn't torture to you? :blink:

 

You know, "forced", as in "against their own free" will...

 

Are you serious? Really? Did you read what you just wrote? Do you realize how silly that sounds? If not, read it again.

I put a " wrong? And no, the rest doesn't sound silly to me at all.

 

People complain on these fora about the 'grind' in RS and how they dislike it. Most say they can not stand several hours of the same monotonous grind.

 

Those prisoners are forced to grind online games for 84 hours per week + they get beaten when quotas are not obtained

= mental suffering + physical pain = torture

[Racheya]

@Blyaunte

 

Forcing political prisoners to do 12 hour-shifts EVERY DAY "playing" an online game isn't torture to you? :blink:

 

You know, "forced", as in "against their own free" will...

 

Are you serious? Really? Did you read what you just wrote? Do you realize how silly that sounds? If not, read it again.

Do you realise how silly YOU sound? Stop trying to justify your ill informed opinion by making everyone else who believes this IS torture, a majority of people, out to be ignorant. We can't all be as gifted as you are, but please give us the decency of rendering us competent enough to read and understand an article.

 

They aren't PLAYING these games, they're being forced to do repetitive actions on them for 12 hours in lieu of sleep. If it's not torture I'd honestly like to see you try it. Try it for one night, after a backbreaking day of hard labour, and see how it's funny then. It's psychological and slow physical torture. Prisoners would slowly be worn down by this and sleep deprivation is a [bleep].

[Master_Smither]

I've watched this thread since it was posted, and you have changed your argument/viewpoint many times since the start Blyaunte. At first, you were mocking being forced to, let's keep it related to RuneScape, kill frost dragons for 12 hours each day. Then you didn't deny the fact they were being sleep deprived and disagreed that it was torture. You went on to say other people supported you to try and validate your stance, and that is perfectly fine. However, just because every is going to drink punch in a cult, it doesn't mean I should too. Then you go on to say that the prisoners are not, in fact, sleep deprived. This I disagree upon.

 

Evidence:

 

"Labour camp detainees endure hard labour by day, online 'gold farming' by night"

 

--This implies that during the daylight when they could perform the tasks they were assigned, they worked outside using the light. Therefore, their day was already used working and the remainder of your 24 hours as prisoner went to be used to play an online game. However, you played this game in the most dull and menial fashion resulting in utter boredum.

 

"Prison bosses made more money forcing inmates to play games than they do forcing people to do manual labour," Liu told the Guardian. "There were 300 prisoners forced to play games. We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp. I heard them say they could earn 5,000-6,000rmb [£470-570] a day. We didn't see any of the money. The computers were never turned off."

 

--If you look at the context in which the bolded statement was said, it would infer that he is refering to the playing games in 12 hour shifts. Why else would the author of this article order it this way? There is no reason to say hey we worked 12 hours shifts total when talking about them playing online games.

 

One can correctly infer that the prisoners are forced to work day and night, 12 hours of their day being online.

 

Funny how you tell people to go read the article again when people told you the exact same thing when this topic started.

[Blyaunte]

@Blyaunte

 

Forcing political prisoners to do 12 hour-shifts EVERY DAY "playing" an online game isn't torture to you? :blink:

 

You know, "forced", as in "against their own free" will...

 

Are you serious? Really? Did you read what you just wrote? Do you realize how silly that sounds? If not, read it again.

Do you realise how silly YOU sound? Stop trying to justify your ill informed opinion by making everyone else who believes this IS torture, a majority of people, out to be ignorant. We can't all be as gifted as you are, but please give us the decency of rendering us competent enough to read and understand an article.

 

They aren't PLAYING these games, they're being forced to do repetitive actions on them for 12 hours in lieu of sleep. If it's not torture I'd honestly like to see you try it. Try it for one night, after a backbreaking day of hard labour, and see how it's funny then. It's psychological and slow physical torture. Prisoners would slowly be worn down by this and sleep deprivation is a [bleep].

 

"Ill-informed"? LOL!

 

Read the article. They worked 12-hour shifts. They did NOT play video games "in lieu of sleep" -- you're making it up. Just like everyone else. Then, after you run wild with your "made-up facts" you call ME ill-informed.

 

Honestly ... :rolleyes:

[Blyaunte]

I've watched this thread since it was posted, and you have changed your argument/viewpoint many times since the start Blyaunte. At first, you were mocking being forced to, let's keep it related to RuneScape, kill frost dragons for 12 hours each day. Then you didn't deny the fact they were being sleep deprived and disagreed that it was torture. You went on to say other people supported you to try and validate your stance, and that is perfectly fine. However, just because every is going to drink punch in a cult, it doesn't mean I should too. Then you go on to say that the prisoners are not, in fact, sleep deprived. This I disagree upon.

 

Evidence:

 

"Labour camp detainees endure hard labour by day, online 'gold farming' by night"

 

--This implies that during the daylight when they could perform the tasks they were assigned, they worked outside using the light. Therefore, their day was already used working and the remainder of your 24 hours as prisoner went to be used to play an online game. However, you played this game in the most dull and menial fashion resulting in utter boredum.

 

"Prison bosses made more money forcing inmates to play games than they do forcing people to do manual labour," Liu told the Guardian. "There were 300 prisoners forced to play games. We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp. I heard them say they could earn 5,000-6,000rmb [£470-570] a day. We didn't see any of the money. The computers were never turned off."

 

--If you look at the context in which the bolded statement was said, it would infer that he is refering to the playing games in 12 hour shifts. Why else would the author of this article order it this way? There is no reason to say hey we worked 12 hours shifts total when talking about them playing online games.

 

One can correctly infer that the prisoners are forced to work day and night, 12 hours of their day being online.

 

Funny how you tell people to go read the article again when people told you the exact same thing when this topic started.

 

Wow just wow ...

 

You leaped over logic in a single bound! Congratulations!

[Master_Smither]

I think it's now obvious you have no argument. You are left to responding with unsupported and ignorant statements to opposing arguments.

[Racheya]

[hide]

@Blyaunte

 

Forcing political prisoners to do 12 hour-shifts EVERY DAY "playing" an online game isn't torture to you? :blink:

 

You know, "forced", as in "against their own free" will...

 

Are you serious? Really? Did you read what you just wrote? Do you realize how silly that sounds? If not, read it again.

Do you realise how silly YOU sound? Stop trying to justify your ill informed opinion by making everyone else who believes this IS torture, a majority of people, out to be ignorant. We can't all be as gifted as you are, but please give us the decency of rendering us competent enough to read and understand an article.

 

They aren't PLAYING these games, they're being forced to do repetitive actions on them for 12 hours in lieu of sleep. If it's not torture I'd honestly like to see you try it. Try it for one night, after a backbreaking day of hard labour, and see how it's funny then. It's psychological and slow physical torture. Prisoners would slowly be worn down by this and sleep deprivation is a [bleep].

 

"Ill-informed"? LOL!

 

Read the article. They worked 12-hour shifts. They did NOT play video games "in lieu of sleep" -- you're making it up. Just like everyone else. Then, after you run wild with your "made-up facts" you call ME ill-informed.

 

Honestly ... :rolleyes:

[/hide]

"As a prisoner at the Jixi labour camp, Liu Dali would slog through tough days breaking rocks and digging trenches in the open cast coalmines of north-east China. By night, he would slay demons, battle goblins and cast spells."

 

May I ask what time of day between 'day' and 'night' is there time to sleep?

Edited June 1, 2011 by ForsakenMage
Wall of quotes now in hide tags.

[Blyaunte]

I think it's now obvious you have no argument. You are left to responding with unsupported and ignorant statements to opposing arguments.

 

Yes, it's a nicely worded article, isn't it? Too bad you "interpeted" it instead of "reading" it.

 

Go back and read it again. "We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp." If they worked 24/7 he would have said, "We worked 24 hours a day." But he doesn't say that. You INTERPRETED that THAT is what is being said. But he doesn't say that.

 

Therein lies a HUGE difference.

 

That difference is between fact and the fiction that you're making up.

[Blyaunte]

[hide]

@Blyaunte

 

Forcing political prisoners to do 12 hour-shifts EVERY DAY "playing" an online game isn't torture to you? :blink:

 

You know, "forced", as in "against their own free" will...

 

Are you serious? Really? Did you read what you just wrote? Do you realize how silly that sounds? If not, read it again.

Do you realise how silly YOU sound? Stop trying to justify your ill informed opinion by making everyone else who believes this IS torture, a majority of people, out to be ignorant. We can't all be as gifted as you are, but please give us the decency of rendering us competent enough to read and understand an article.

 

They aren't PLAYING these games, they're being forced to do repetitive actions on them for 12 hours in lieu of sleep. If it's not torture I'd honestly like to see you try it. Try it for one night, after a backbreaking day of hard labour, and see how it's funny then. It's psychological and slow physical torture. Prisoners would slowly be worn down by this and sleep deprivation is a [bleep].

 

"Ill-informed"? LOL!

 

Read the article. They worked 12-hour shifts. They did NOT play video games "in lieu of sleep" -- you're making it up. Just like everyone else. Then, after you run wild with your "made-up facts" you call ME ill-informed.

 

Honestly ... :rolleyes:

"As a prisoner at the Jixi labour camp, Liu Dali would slog through tough days breaking rocks and digging trenches in the open cast coalmines of north-east China. By night, he would slay demons, battle goblins and cast spells."

 

May I ask what time of day between 'day' and 'night' is there time to sleep?

[/hide]

 

Please show me a quote from the article where he says he worked 24 hours a day.

Edited June 1, 2011 by ForsakenMage
Wall of quotes now in hide tags.

[Master_Smither]

I think it's now obvious you have no argument. You are left to responding with unsupported and ignorant statements to opposing arguments.

 

Yes, it's a nicely worded article, isn't it? Too bad you "interpeted" it instead of "reading" it.

 

Go back and read it again. "We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp." If they worked 24/7 he would have said, "We worked 24 hours a day." But he doesn't say that. You INTERPRETED that THAT is what is being said. But he doesn't say that.

 

Therein lies a HUGE difference.

 

That difference is between fact and the fiction that you're making up.

 

It's obvious (or at least I thought it was) that he was refering to playing online games in 12 hour shifts considering the entire paragraph was about playing online games. Also, there are more statements supporting our argument since the article states they work day and night multiple times.

 

I don't have to read it again; I quoted it, the entire paragraph in wich the 12 hour shift statement was made. This was to emphasize the content. My english teacher would call that quote without the context, a floater. No one likes floaters, they're hard to flush.

 

I don't think anyone is saying they worked 24 hours a day. You assumed that from our posts. They obviously have to have some time to sleep otherwise they'd die. Getting less than 7-8 hours of sleep a night for an extented period of time still counts as sleep deprived.

[Racheya]

Please show me a quote from the article where he says he worked 24 hours a day.

Please show me a quote that says he doesn't.

 

Just because it doesn't specify that he does, doesn't mean it's not true. It's not hard to extrapolate that with 12 hours WoW per night and a minimum of 8 hours manual work in the day, there's no, or little, time to sleep. I think we could all have a bit of a chuckle if this work was instead of the manual work, and the people weren't being physically abused by the prison guards for not being efficient enough, but they are and we aren't.