China Using Prisoners To Farm MMOs

[Nadril]

Two things.

 

 

1) Gold farmers usually have someone in front of a bot monitoring it in case a moderator or someone tries to talk with them. (Some bots even have a warning sound, at least in Aion they did. That way even windowed down it would play a sound if a moderator was nearby or whispered you). You can just run a bot unattended but depending on how big security is in a game depends if that is possible. In Aion I was able to leave it on 24/7 because the moderators obviously didn't give a [cabbage]. It might be a bit different in Runescape, I don't know.

 

2) I would much rather be forced to bang rocks all day rather than have to sit and watch/play Runescape.

 

 

Also I didn't read the article so I don't have much of an opinion about this. China is just generally [bleep]ed up although I find it odd that they would use government prisoners as gold farmers as I thought that was a more private thing. (And that the government wanted to ban it)

[Kimberly]

Oh -- I am not condoning it at all -- but I am trying to give you and the others here a sense of PERSPECTIVE. You're all acting as though this is the worst thing ever, and it's this response that is entirely laughable.

 

You can piss into the wind all you want, but it's not going to change the wind's direction, and you're only going to end up peeing all over yourself. Trying to declare something as self-evident to someone who cannot or will not agree to it is precisely the same thing. Judging them for it make it all more ridiculous, particularly when, in your own back yard, you're committing far worse atrocities in the same name of those same inalienable universal human rights.

 

In the end, you can only laugh at people who proclaim that they've been tortured by playing video games. Sure it's mean. Sure it's awful. But on the grand scale of things, it's not half as bad as the worst things that are going on in this world.

 

I respect the intentions but you're failing on your execution. Unless the perspective you are trying to impart on the community is "Nothing you do matters and you're all hypocrites."

 

Being disturbed by violations of human rights has nothing to do with what nationality you claim. It has to do with your beliefs, morals, and standards. One person cannot forcibly change the world to their liking, this is true, but killing that feeling in them or demeaning it is asinine. People should be encouraged to feel that way and, more than that, to act on those feelings in productive ways to produce change.

 

You keep saying playing video games isn't torture as if that is the only thing being scrutinized here. It is a myriad of things, from physical abuse to sleep deprivation to psychological trauma. I don't see how someone cannot come to terms with why such conditions are damaging to a person's well being.

 

A greater wrong does not negate a lesser one.

[Jimmyw3000]

Blyaunte is right, this [cabbage] is hilarious. Torture via MMO

 

 

And the USA does this too, only with other goods and services...

 

'according to the Left Business Observer, the federal prison industry produces 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, pants, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armor; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. Airplane parts, medical supplies, and much more: prisoners are even raising seeing-eye dogs for blind people.'

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8289

 

although they probably treat their prisoners marginally better

[aspeeder]

[spoiler=Thining the Quote Train]

No, claiming it doesn't make it so. But the point where people stop asserting that and actively working towards it is the day we might as well all shove off and take a gun to our heads. Covering it up with cynicism is pointless.

 

But who are we to assert that our definition of human rights is superior to those exercised within one's own borders? :unsure:

 

The ability to realize that our definition is not necessarily the same as another's definition is the first step in achieving a compromise -- dontcha think?

 

As others have pointed out, China is part of the UN and (Should) accept and abide by the UN's definition of human rights. I'd be the first to point out that not every member, especially not the US, has a great track record with this, but you were also pointed out that China's treatment of their people is ATROCIOUS. If they weren't a part of the UN your argument might be valid, but they decided to be part of a Western-oriented multinational organization so they have to play by those rules. And understanding that opposing views are different is not the same as knowing that they are equally valid and diametrically opposed, inherently.

 

EDIT: I'm still not sure where you stand. You're cynical about our response and laughing at the "bleeding-hearts," I get that. But in the beginning you weren't laughing at our naivety, you were laughing at the tortured. Mock us for being optimistic, fine, but you still haven't answered us as to why you're laughing at the torture victim.

 

... and I am still laughing at the "tortured" -- because like it or not, they're right where they got because, somewhere, they crossed the line ...

 

... and in crossing that line, they deserve the punishment they received. Again, like it or not, China has every right to treat it's citizens in the manner that they deem appropriate.

 

... and the fact that said punishment was, contrarily, being forced to play video games makes it laughable. On the scale of crying out for attention, the source of the story seriously dropped the ball. If he had wanted sympathy from me, he lost any of it the moment he began the whole playing video games was torture portion of it.

 

In the history of all that is inhumane -- of the stories of the Soviet Gulags, the Concentration Camps -- of man's inhumanity to other men, playing video games is ... what? Really? Really!

 

Like I said -- get some perspective here. It's a sad story. A terrible thing. Yes.

 

... and I can see them making a movie about it now -- Jackie Chan as the man whom, against all odds, gets his Night Elf Mohawk action, wins the girl, kicks all the guard's asses and then escapes the prison in a moment of furious keyboard action, the likes of which one has never seen before on the big screen. All in 3-D!!!!

 

:rolleyes:

I think you missed part of my post: CHINA IS PART OF THE UN. Meaning, they DO NOT have the "right" to treat their citizens how they deem appropriate without consequence. And I still think you're missing the point to this: they aren't playing video games as a pastime, video games are being used as a tool for both unfair economic gain and psychological torture. When they are forced to play video games, it seems to me, that you keep conceptualizing it to how we, I assume, have always known them. Anything can be used as a torture device psychologically, but no one has the rights to use them as such. And as Omali pointed out this is a way to be proactive, realizing that the "Chinese sweatshops" we always talked about can be so shameful is another way to deter gold buyers and thus take away the incentives from the prisons/shops.

[sees_all1]

although they probably treat their prisoners marginally better

 

"marginally".

Pfft.

 

Its like, you know, letting them sleep, not setting quotas, not whipping them if they'd miss a quota, not working them to death.

[Jimmyw3000]

I think you missed part of my post: CHINA IS PART OF THE UN. Meaning, they DO NOT have the "right" to treat their citizens how they deem appropriate without consequence. And I still think you're missing the point to this: they aren't playing video games as a pastime, video games are being used as a tool for both unfair economic gain and psychological torture. When they are forced to play video games, it seems to me, that you keep conceptualizing it to how we, I assume, have always known them. Anything can be used as a torture device psychologically, but no one has the rights to use them as such. And as Omali pointed out this is a way to be proactive, realizing that the "Chinese sweatshops" we always talked about can be so shameful is another way to deter gold buyers and thus take away the incentives from the prisons/shops.

yes they do, they can veto any policy they want.

 

and the USA doesnt follow all regulations, yet gets away with it.

[Soma2035]

Oh -- I am not condoning it at all -- but I am trying to give you and the others here a sense of PERSPECTIVE. You're all acting as though this is the worst thing ever, and it's this response that is entirely laughable.

 

You can piss into the wind all you want, but it's not going to change the wind's direction, and you're only going to end up peeing all over yourself. Trying to declare something as self-evident to someone who cannot or will not agree to it is precisely the same thing. Judging them for it make it all more ridiculous, particularly when, in your own back yard, you're committing far worse atrocities in the same name of those same inalienable universal human rights.

 

In the end, you can only laugh at people who proclaim that they've been tortured by playing video games. Sure it's mean. Sure it's awful. But on the grand scale of things, it's not half as bad as the worst things that are going on in this world.

 

I respect the intentions but you're failing on your execution. Unless the perspective you are trying to impart on the community is "Nothing you do matters and you're all hypocrites."

 

Being disturbed by violations of human rights has nothing to do with what nationality you claim. It has to do with your beliefs, morals, and standards. One person cannot forcibly change the world to their liking, this is true, but killing that feeling in them or demeaning it is asinine. People should be encouraged to feel that way and, more than that, to act on those feelings in productive ways to produce change.

 

You keep saying playing video games isn't torture as if that is the only thing being scrutinized here. It is a myriad of things, from physical abuse to sleep deprivation to psychological trauma. I don't see how someone cannot come to terms with why such conditions are damaging to a person's well being.

 

A greater wrong does not negate a lesser one.

 

The point isn't that it's a lesser wrong, the point is that calling it torture is practically an insult to proper torture. Forcing inmates to play WoW, however inhumane it might be, really doesn't come close to being in the league that people typically associated the word "torture" with. Physical abuse? Does it involve daggers being stuck into you while you're trapped in an iron capsule? Whipped raw in public? Skin peeled away, an inch at a time, with a razor? Head forced into ice cold water until you're barely conscious? A caged rat placed on your body, with the cage set ablaze, forcing the rodent to burrow through the victim? Sleep deprivation... don't make me laugh. Dedicated college students undergo sleep deprivation all the time simply due to schoolwork overload, on top of having to manage a job. And they're paying for it.

 

Inhumane as this situation might be, calling it torture is laughable. This isn't being done in some sadistic way, and it doesn't even come close to the brutality that the word torture generally implies. It's horrible that there are people are doing this to each other, but the reactions here are way exaggerated.

[Cheefoo]

Nobody's claimed this is the "worst thing ever". Yes, there are far worse forms of torture, but this is pretty bad. Why are we discussing it? It's related to Runescape's problem at hand: gold selling and botting. That's why we aren't talking about waterboarding, because that's not what this topic is covering.

[Helm_Lardar]

You'd make it a lot easier if you organized them better and didn't repeat yourself.

 

If you want to open China's treatment of prisoners to scrutiny, and condemn them for the things they do, then you'd better be damn well prepared to condemn the treatment of prisoners in some other countries -- particularly those barbaric countries where prisoners are executed, and others held in secret off-site locations where they are routinely tortured. Hell -- in one of the more barbaric countries, some of their prisoners have even been waterboarded 183 times within a 30 day period. It's disgraceful! It's disgusting!

 

Personally -- I'd rather be playing video games -- even if it is WoW ...

 

China isn't the only country that doesn't recognize the U.N.'s definition of human rights. Islamic countries operating under Sharia law don't recognize it either.

 

Not to mention that amongst the list of Universal Human Rights that ISN'T included is the "right to refuse to kill" -- but THAT's another issue entirely ...

 

@Those who say 'don't feed the troll': this is turning into an interesting discussion. Don't invoke some form of "Goldwin's Law" and ruin it.

 

Yes, I shouldn't have rambled. But I wanted to get the response out there and get feedback and...yeah, I was lazy.

 

I would be condemning other countries if I knew about them. The thread is specifically about China however. I'll have a look at AmIn's website tomorrow once I've done my Physics exam and see what they have to say.

 

You seem to be underestimating the way the video games become a method of torturing someone. Sleep deprivation is truly a terrible thing, which you seem to think is actually just another way of executing justice. Forgive me if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick. I know you are comparing it to physical labour, but...phsycological torture also results in pain, even if it isn't as visible.

 

Yes, and I'm not happy that Islamic countries don't accept the UN's human rights. I should have thought that would be mandatory to the organisation, since they aren't exactly...shall we say...incredibly and terrifically ground-breaking or difficult?

 

It is another issue.

[sees_all1]

Inhumane as this situation might be, calling it torture is laughable. This isn't being done in some sadistic way, and it doesn't even come close to the brutality that the word torture generally implies. It's horrible that there are people are doing this to each other, but the reactions here are way exaggerated.

As well as backbreaking mining toil, he carved chopsticks and toothpicks out of planks of wood until his hands were raw and assembled car seat covers that the prison exported to South Korea and Japan. He was also made to memorise communist literature to pay off his debt to society.

"If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things,"

 

Definitely not torture. They're not even trying to get information out of them![/sarcasm]

[Soma2035]

Nobody's claimed this is the "worst thing ever". Yes, there are far worse forms of torture, but this is pretty bad. Why are we discussing it? It's related to Runescape's problem at hand: gold selling and botting. That's why we aren't talking about waterboarding, because that's not what this topic is covering.

 

Because the whistle blower labeled it "torture," which is hilarious in the same way as an elementary school student crying "cruel and unusual punishment" when his mother takes away his Xbox for a weekend - making it out to be something so much worse than what it really is, in hopes of finding sympathy.

[das]

Nobody's claimed this is the "worst thing ever". Yes, there are far worse forms of torture, but this is pretty bad. Why are we discussing it? It's related to Runescape's problem at hand: gold selling and botting. That's why we aren't talking about waterboarding, because that's not what this topic is covering.

 

Because the whistle blower labeled it "torture," which is hilarious in the same way as an elementary school student crying "cruel and unusual punishment" when his mother takes away his Xbox for a weekend - making it out to be something so much worse than what it really is, in hopes of finding sympathy.

 

 

Theres nothing humane about beating someone with a pipe or sleep deprivation.

[Helm_Lardar]

The point isn't that it's a lesser wrong, the point is that calling it torture is practically an insult to proper torture. Forcing inmates to play WoW, however inhumane it might be, really doesn't come close to being in the league that people typically associated the word "torture" with. Physical abuse? Does it involve daggers being stuck into you while you're trapped in an iron capsule? Whipped raw in public? Skin peeled away, an inch at a time, with a razor? Head forced into ice cold water until you're barely conscious? A caged rat placed on your body, with the cage set ablaze, forcing the rodent to burrow through the victim? Sleep deprivation... don't make me laugh. Dedicated college students undergo sleep deprivation all the time simply due to schoolwork overload, on top of having to manage a job. And they're paying for it.

 

Inhumane as this situation might be, calling it torture is laughable. This isn't being done in some sadistic way, and it doesn't even come close to the brutality that the word torture generally implies. It's horrible that there are people are doing this to each other, but the reactions here are way exaggerated.

 

Ahh, but here we have the problem, sleep deprivation is a longer-term way of wearing someone down. Unlike the ways you describe, this can be continued for a long, long time...whereas someone having daggers stuck into them won't live the day out.

 

College students aren't forced to have no sleep for a week. They aren't beaten into submission if they don't attend lectures. These people are.

[Soma2035]

Inhumane as this situation might be, calling it torture is laughable. This isn't being done in some sadistic way, and it doesn't even come close to the brutality that the word torture generally implies. It's horrible that there are people are doing this to each other, but the reactions here are way exaggerated.

As well as backbreaking mining toil, he carved chopsticks and toothpicks out of planks of wood until his hands were raw and assembled car seat covers that the prison exported to South Korea and Japan. He was also made to memorise communist literature to pay off his debt to society.

"If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things,"

 

Definitely not torture. They're not even trying to get information out of them![/sarcasm]

 

1) So... they required menial labor? And they demanded more work and had worse working conditions? Sounds like the rest of the impoverished population in China.

 

2) Oh, so they're punishing the inmates for poor work in the same fashion that elementary and middleschool students in their schooling system are punished for their poor work. Forced to stand in uncomfortable positions and beatings. Again, this is torture how? Within the past few decades, forcing students who perform badly to stand, either holding their arms up or carrying heavy weights, and beating them with wooden/plastic devices, was not only the norm but the EXPECTED in the public schooling system. As in, the parents accepted it as reasonable punishment to instill a strong work ethic. This is a cultural thing, not a sadistic thing.

 

College students aren't forced to have no sleep for a week. They aren't beaten into submission if they don't attend lectures. These people are.

 

One of my friends here on TIF (who I now know IRL, and attends the University of Washington in Seattle) has been complaining non-stop this quarter about how he is lucky to get 10 hours of sleep per week, because of incompetent professors assigning reports at incredibly late hours, and the oversized workload. For the same reason, he's barely been able to play Runescape, or in fact, do anything else besides work. I assure you - he is not alone. Not to mention, he doesn't work yet - plenty of students have part-time jobs, compounding this problem.

 

And students in Taiwan within the past few decades WERE beaten into submission if they misbehaved. It was expected of the teachers that they were proper disciplinarians. Even elementary and middle school students were punished this way (although they weren't beaten as badly).

[aspeeder]

I think you missed part of my post: CHINA IS PART OF THE UN. Meaning, they DO NOT have the "right" to treat their citizens how they deem appropriate without consequence. And I still think you're missing the point to this: they aren't playing video games as a pastime, video games are being used as a tool for both unfair economic gain and psychological torture. When they are forced to play video games, it seems to me, that you keep conceptualizing it to how we, I assume, have always known them. Anything can be used as a torture device psychologically, but no one has the rights to use them as such. And as Omali pointed out this is a way to be proactive, realizing that the "Chinese sweatshops" we always talked about can be so shameful is another way to deter gold buyers and thus take away the incentives from the prisons/shops.

yes they do, they can veto any policy they want.

 

and the USA doesnt follow all regulations, yet gets away with it.

Becoming a member of the United Nations is open to all peace loving States which accept the obligations contained within the United Nations Charter.

 

The Second Purpose stated in the United Nation's charter includes: To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace.

 

 

And in the preamble of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms...

 

And yes, I stated before that China is hardly the only offender, but that doesn't make this passable.

[Slayer_Jesse]

 

This is just another in the long line of abuses by china... and we owe them how much? sigh. and to all the idiots saying LOL VIDEOGAMES, how many of you have actually played a game 12 hrs straight? ive done it once or twice. towards hour 9 im wondering why im still playing. now imagine doing that all day everyday after breaking rocks all day with overlords who will beat you if you look at them funny.

[sees_all1]

Go ahead and marginalize it, you're failing to recognize that the whole is worse than the parts.

 

 

This is a cultural thing, not a sadistic thing.

Slavery, Concentration Camps, Abuse, Political Corruption.

 

Right.

[Soma2035]

 

This is just another in the long line of abuses by china... and we owe them how much? sigh. and to all the idiots saying LOL VIDEOGAMES, how many of you have actually played a game 12 hrs straight? ive done it once or twice. towards hour 9 im wondering why im still playing. now imagine doing that all day everyday after breaking rocks all day with overlords who will beat you if you look at them funny.

 

Which is just ordinary Chinese prison culture, if not less harsh than.

 

The point isn't that it's acceptable, the point is that picking this as a sign of the inhumanity going on over their is laughable, because comparably, this is a very small issue.

[Sir_Squab]

Allright. Let's put it this way. Let's make a line of numbers between -10 to 10.

 

Now, waterboarding someone 183 times in 30 days gets a -9 or -10. Probably -9 because I somehow doubt you couldn't find something more sadistic if you really, really tried.

 

And for 10, let's say having a very nice time with members of the gender you are interested in. I'm phrasing it like this for the small percent of the population whose interests are different then the larger percent of the population.

 

Now, obviously forcing a person to mine all day and goldfarm all night doesn't get a solid -9. But what we're trying to say is, that doesn't earn it a number somewhere on the positive side either.

 

The question isn't whether or not it's the worse form of cruel, unusual, obscene punishment (although it obviously scores in the "unusual" category.) The question is, DOES it qualify as some sort of obscene punishment. Which, imo, it does. How does forcing a guy to mine for 12 hours then not letting them sleep sound? Don't compare it to being waterboarded 183 times in 30 days. I just want to know if you consider it excessive punishment and/or torture.

[n64jive]

lol at comparing sleep deprivation of a college student to that of a prisoner.

 

College student: Sleep deprived for the week of finals (and or some other deadlines), followed by a big party where we get to go out and get drunk, likely until we pass out with some random stranger or puke somewhere.

 

Prisoner: Sleep deprived because of staying up all day doing physical labor and all night staring at some stupid screen. When they are done...well, there is no done for them. They do this for their entire sentance.

 

Be glad your an american in the 21st century. (Also let Blyaunte voice her opinion, as this isn't the 1800's or the early 1900's.)

[Kaida23]

Oh, so they're punishing the inmates for poor work in the same fashion that elementary and middleschool students in their schooling system are punished for their poor work. Forced to stand in uncomfortable positions and beatings. Again, this is torture how? Within the past few decades, forcing students who perform badly to stand, either holding their arms up or carrying heavy weights, and beating them with wooden/plastic devices, was not only the norm but the EXPECTED in the public schooling system. As in, the parents accepted it as reasonable punishment to instill a strong work ethic. This is a cultural thing, not a sadistic thing.

Not so many decades before that women weren't people under the law, so does that mean that it would still be okay if other cultures treated women like that? Oh, wait. That actually happens, and we all get upset over it. Also, I'm pretty sure those children you're referring to were not hit with metal pipes and allowed to have a proper night's sleep.

 

I don't recall who said it, but I once read (and I'm paraphrasing here) "You can judge a society on how it treats is prisoners.".

[Helm_Lardar]

 

 

College students aren't forced to have no sleep for a week. They aren't beaten into submission if they don't attend lectures. These people are.

 

One of my friends here on TIF (who I now know IRL, and attends the University of Washington in Seattle) has been complaining non-stop this quarter about how he is lucky to get 10 hours of sleep per week, because of incompetent professors assigning reports at incredibly late hours, and the oversized workload. For the same reason, he's barely been able to play Runescape, or in fact, do anything else besides work. I assure you - he is not alone. Not to mention, he doesn't work yet - plenty of students have part-time jobs, compounding this problem.

 

And students in Taiwan within the past few decades WERE beaten into submission if they misbehaved. It was expected of the teachers that they were proper disciplinarians. Even elementary and middle school students were punished this way (although they weren't beaten as badly).

 

Wow...err...umm...well....there we go then... :blink: .

 

I'm scared of university now.

[Soma2035]

Allright. Let's put it this way. Let's make a line of numbers between -10 to 10.

 

Now, waterboarding someone 183 times in 30 days gets a -9 or -10. Probably -9 because I somehow doubt you couldn't find something more sadistic if you really, really tried.

 

And for 10, let's say having a very nice time with members of the gender you are interested in. I'm phrasing it like this for the small percent of the population whose interests are different then the larger percent of the population.

 

Now, obviously forcing a person to mine all day and goldfarm all night doesn't get a solid -9. But what we're trying to say is, that doesn't earn it a number somewhere on the positive side either.

 

The question isn't whether or not it's the worse form of cruel, unusual, obscene punishment (although it obviously scores in the "unusual" category.) The question is, DOES it qualify as some sort of obscene punishment. Which, imo, it does. How does forcing a guy to mine for 12 hours then not letting them sleep sound? Don't compare it to being waterboarded 183 times in 30 days. I just want to know if you consider it excessive punishment and/or torture.

 

See, that's the thing that makes this ridiculous. Waterboarding at a -9 or -10? I think it would be exaggerating to call it a -4. You're awfully naive about the amazing ways human's have invented to inflict pain on one another, both psychological and physical. Which is the crux of the matter - when you consider what other atrocities are committed today, forcing people to spend exhausting hours playing a computer game to make you money doesn't even come close to genuine "torture".

 

lol at comparing sleep deprivation of a college student to that of a prisoner.

 

College student: Sleep deprived for the week of finals (and or some other deadlines), followed by a big party where we get to go out and get drunk, likely until we pass out with some random stranger or puke somewhere.

 

Prisoner: Sleep deprived because of staying up all day doing physical labor and all night staring at some stupid screen. When they are done...well, there is no done for them. They do this for their entire sentance.

 

Be glad your an american in the 21st century. (Also let Blyaunte voice her opinion, as this isn't the 1800's or the early 1900's.)

 

I like how you automatically assume you know everything about everyone. Sorry, but that's just not true. This particular friend doesn't go to parties, and doesn't spend time socializing with his classmates besides the rare moments he has between classes. Why? Because he's at his home, either studying, or sending e-mails to his professors asking for clarification about the homework, because the professor stated "0 < x < 0" in the homework assignment.

 

Just because some college students get off easy doesn't mean all of them do - there ARE genuinely hard-working college students who spend ridiculous amounts of hours, cutting into their sleep, just to keep up.

 

Oh, so they're punishing the inmates for poor work in the same fashion that elementary and middleschool students in their schooling system are punished for their poor work. Forced to stand in uncomfortable positions and beatings. Again, this is torture how? Within the past few decades, forcing students who perform badly to stand, either holding their arms up or carrying heavy weights, and beating them with wooden/plastic devices, was not only the norm but the EXPECTED in the public schooling system. As in, the parents accepted it as reasonable punishment to instill a strong work ethic. This is a cultural thing, not a sadistic thing.

Not so many decades before that women weren't people under the law, so does that mean that it would still be okay if other cultures treated women like that? Oh, wait. That actually happens, and we all get upset over it. Also, I'm pretty sure those children were not hit with metal pipes and allowed to have a proper night's sleep.

 

I don't recall who said it, but I once read (and I'm paraphrasing here) "You can judge a society on how it treats is prisoners.".

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure this kind of schooling still exists today. I've heard horror stories from my cousins still in Taiwan about how harsh their education system is recently, but they're quite ambiguous. The only more detailed accounts I have are from my parents' generation, which is why I said "a few decades ago."

 

Wow...err...umm...well....there we go then... :blink: .

 

I'm scared of university now.

 

To be fair, the reason my friend's college life is so miserable this quarter is because his professors are incompetent as well as ridiculous. Normal college students don't have to put up with crap like assignments undergoing 5 different corrections because the professor can't figure his own class out, all done the night the assignment is due.

[J35u5_M4]

So sad...

[Alg]

Theres nothing humane about beating someone with a pipe or sleep deprivation.

And really, sitting in the same spot grinding in an MMO for 12 hours is equally extreme. Let's put this in perspective. 8 AM to 8 PM in the same spot, repeating the same task, and being beaten if you don't meet your quota? Combined with said sleep deprivation.

 

The only kind of person who would really be okay with that is an MMO addict, and I really hate to play that card here.