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China Using Prisoners To Farm MMOs


Omali

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Our Western governments aren't great either you know, we've done plenty of awful [cabbage] in the past, this nowhere near ranks to some of the things that have gone on in European and American prisons, nowhere near.

 

The same Western governments that could of put an end to third world hunger and poverty YEARS ago if they really wanted to. We have the money, power and resources. Why haven't we? Because it would cause WORLD hunger, we would all suffer from bringing the third-world into Western living conditions, it's already happening on a smaller scale because of the economic rise in India. There simply wouldn't be enough food, that's why it hasn't been done. This may seem off-topic; but it's a similar reason to why everyone turns a blind eye to this kind of behaviour and let it slip through the already meaningless UN regulations, because even if not humane, they are resourcing us with what we desire. Why would we intervene with such torture when they are providing us with cheap materials to build more structures that further indebt our nations to the organisations we are politically opposing.

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I just find it kind of hilarious TBH -- this image of chubby bloated couch potato-esque prisoners being "forced" to play computer games -- as opposed to the physical demand of hard labour ...

 

:lol:

Did you even read the article?

 

Why yes, as a matter of fact I did -- didn't you? Shall I read it for you?

 

Once upon a time in a land far far away, there was this place where bad people went and they banged rocks, fletched chopsticks, read books and played video games. It was all such hard work.

 

The end.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Satire does not become the situation at all. This is a major problem which the public has had at least an idea of in the past - where people who were either poor or enslaved had to do stuff like this.

 

Truthfully I thought that China had "outlawed" the sale of virtual gold. If prisons are doing this, then it's a pandemic that can't be stopped by simply going to the Chinese government [again] and asking nicely.

 

On the contrary, it's a hilarious situation. You've got murderers, rapists and goodness-knows what other types of known criminals who, instead of being punished through hard-labour, are now all huddled in front of computer screens playing video games -- and complaining about it ...

 

:rolleyes:

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You idiot.

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Anyways, why is everyone ragging on China about this human rights issue? The Chinese government does not believe in the freedom of dissent, that's why those people got sent to jail. Why is it America's business as to how China runs their country? Have any of you ever been to China before? Life is perfectly fine in China. People are happy, yes, HAPPY under what can't be called a democracy! :shock: I have family who live there and they have been there for their entire lives. The ONLY thing that I am against is the Cultural Revolution, and many Chinese citizens who were alive at that period of time agree that it was not Mao's greatest idea.

 

I find it extremely hypocritical of these now-democratic governments ragging on China's human rights abuse. Why not get your own [cabbage] together first? Canada has to deal with Residential Schools, the US have had countless scandals involving mistreatment of POWs. And lets not forget about slavery. Slavery might not exist as prominently as centuries ago, but it is the epitome of human rights abuse, as in humans being treated as property rather than other humans.

 

China now is nothing like the Communist state that existed before 1976, they are still declared communist, but in fact, it's more of a mixed. The government still doesn't allow freedom of dissent, complete free press, etc. If you want to make a rant about corrupt governments when it is clear what will happen, is it a surprise that he went to jail? To the people who [cabbage] on China's human rights issues, take a look at your own country, and once you are completely sure that there are no accounts of human rights abuse, then you can have your shot at China.

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Grab the torches and pitchforks! Someone has a different opinion!

 

All sarcasm aside, it's disgusting to read pages of personal attacks on one of the most insightfull users here. So what if she has a different opinion.

PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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@All_Is_Great Did you make that page or has it been there for a long time. Either way, funny stuff.

 

@Blyaunte r u trol or r u srs?

 

@Nifflin I have no qualms about people voicing their opinions. So I can voice my own opinions that I think that their opinion is crap.

 

This is terrible, idk why people would think that playing video games for hours on end when you don't enjoy it isn't considered torture. (<--I hope that came out right)

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8537467/Chinese-labour-camp-prisoners-forced-to-play-online-games.html

 

However, an official at the central office for labour camps in Heilongjiang denied that inmates were forced to play games online. I have never heard of this. If you want to see for yourself, come to one of our labour camps, he said.

 

The official, who declined to give his name, said: We do not allow our inmates to do high-risk occupations, such as coal-mining. We do not have large numbers of computers. And we do not allow our prisoners to have any contact with the outside world. If they were playing these online games they could easily communicate with other people. We would never allow that.

 

http://blogs.forbes.com/billbarol/2011/05/26/chinese-prisoners-forced-to-game-for-profit-okay-i-guess/

 

Gold farming is a well-documented phenomenon; the Guardian itself reported on the Chinese gold-farming market two years ago. But that piece, by Rowenna Davis, didnt even mention the prison angle. With scrutiny focused on the racket for at least the last two years, you have to wonder why the pseudonymous Liu who had been at liberty for some two years by 2009 didnt surface sooner. It isnt only this, though. The Vincent story has three of the hallmarks that tend to characterize made-up scare stories about the Internet: Its splashy and weird; its sketchily sourced and hard to verify; and it feeds on the notion, still held in some quarters, of the Internet as Wild West, a place where dignity is cheap and the helpless are ripe for exploitation. One of the smell tests I always apply to stories like this is to ask myself how easy it would be to imagine it as the title of a Snopes entry...

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8537467/Chinese-labour-camp-prisoners-forced-to-play-online-games.html

 

However, an official at the central office for labour camps in Heilongjiang denied that inmates were forced to play games online. “I have never heard of this. If you want to see for yourself, come to one of our labour camps,” he said.

 

The official, who declined to give his name, said: “We do not allow our inmates to do high-risk occupations, such as coal-mining. We do not have large numbers of computers. And we do not allow our prisoners to have any contact with the outside world. If they were playing these online games they could easily communicate with other people. We would never allow that.”

You conveniently left out

Although the practice is technically illegal, it is widespread.

 

I don't know why I bother responding. Even if you posted irrefutable evidence that there is no torture in China, it doesn't change the fact that you were poking fun at other people's misery.

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Widespread, sure. Just not in prisons. Thanks for flipping off the OBVIOUS points made in the above quotes provided to you by third party sources.

 

Tell me -- why would a Chinese Prison allow ANYONE, in particular its inmates, access to the outside world? Doesn't this sound the least bit FISHY to you? No? Try again.

And yet you fail to ask yourself, "Why would a prison guard admit to breaking the law?"

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Widespread, sure. Just not in prisons. Thanks for flipping off the OBVIOUS points made in the above quotes provided to you by third party sources.

 

Tell me -- why would a Chinese Prison allow ANYONE, in particular its inmates, access to the outside world? Doesn't this sound the least bit FISHY to you? No? Try again.

And yet you fail to ask yourself, "Why would a prison guard admit to breaking the law?"

 

Why, out of a over hundred thousand prisoners allegedly forced to partake in this kind of operation, has only ONE alleged prisoner surfaced?

 

Why didn't the Guardian do investigative research on this specific subject matter? Why take only one person's word for it, and then post it on the Internet?

 

How ridiculous does this sound?

 

:rolleyes:

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Why, out of a over hundred thousand prisoners allegedly forced to partake in this kind of operation, has only ONE alleged prisoner surfaced?

Let's see...

Could it be that:

-emigrating from China is a piece of cake? You know, not that the government controls people's movements in and out of a country or anything.

-even IF China allowed a convict to emigrate (a really, really big IF), that other countries wouldn't allow a criminal to enter their country? Its not like they would check or anything.

-China censors most anything and everything going in and out of the country?

-very few people live through harsh conditions?

 

Nah, I doubt it. You're right, there should be millions more.

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Tell me -- why would a Chinese Prison allow ANYONE, in particular its inmates, access to the outside world? Doesn't this sound the least bit FISHY to you? No? Try again.

I don't know about other online games, but it's very easy to limit communication in RS. You simply lie about your age and get limited to quickchat only.

 

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Ok, now you're actually posting sources, and you know what? Sure, I can believe that this story is a bit sketchy. And until more articles appear it'll be hard to determine whether this practice was/is widespread or not. But I still cannot believe your insensitivity towards this whole issue. Even in the second article you posted the author said:

 

I hope I’m wrong about this, and please don’t misunderstand: I don’t in any way doubt the cruelty or the brutality of Chinese labor camps, or the ugly ingenuity that would spawn this kind of scheme. But the story feels a little thin in the Guardian’s telling.

 

Even to a respectable journalist who doubts this story, he had empathy towards the prisoners and did not outright mock them.

 

Even if you posted irrefutable evidence that there is no torture in China, it doesn't change the fact that you were poking fun at other people's misery.

 

"Misery"? What misery? 12-hours of ALLEGED video gaming is misery as compared to what, exactly? You haven't been able to provide an adequate comparative that can demonstrate how video gaming is "torture", nor have you been able to provide irrefutable proof that it was "torture".

I don't know how often we've repeated that these can be a tool for sleep deprivation and psychological torture, so I'll ask you this: what is your definition of torture? Because it seems to me that your definition is largely confined to the physical, but I might be wrong; it's obvious that neither side here is making any headway right now so it'd be best to at least know exactly where we stand.

 

Hell -- the article itself doesn't describe it as misery OR torture -- it calls it "surreal" -- and the article itself is entirely based in heresay and shows absolutely NO modicum whatsoever of any actual investigation or research. Yet, you BUY it, lock, stock and barrel.

First of all, the article you cited does not call it tortue, but this one does, and this one is tagged under torture. I'm sure various websites edited the article somewhat to fit their perceived audience. And, as posted earlier, China isn't exactly all about the freedom of the press.

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Let's see...

Could it be that:

-emigrating from China is a piece of cake?

 

Why would they need to emigrate? The original researched article by The Guardian, which, by the way, never mentions anything about prisons – features some genuine investigative reporting where they actually went to China and did some talking to real people.

 

-China censors most anything and everything going in and out of the country?

 

Everything except prisoners playing video games, apparently ... :rolleyes:

 

Tell me -- why would a Chinese Prison allow ANYONE, in particular its inmates, access to the outside world? Doesn't this sound the least bit FISHY to you? No? Try again.

I don't know about other online games, but it's very easy to limit communication in RS. You simply lie about your age and get limited to quickchat only.

 

It still allows you a modicum of outside communication, which China is very strict about banning entirely.

 

 

I don't know how often we've repeated that these can be a tool for sleep deprivation and psychological torture, so I'll ask you this: what is your definition of torture? Because it seems to me that your definition is largely confined to the physical, but I might be wrong; it's obvious that neither side here is making any headway right now so it'd be best to at least know exactly where we stand.

 

Again with the "sleep deprivation" and "torture" drama -- NONE of which is mentioned in the original article. You're extrapolating ideas that aren't there. As I said before, stop letting your imagination run wild with you and read what is IN the article, and don't offer your own interpretation of it as being "factual" evidence of anything. It's your "opinion" -- it is neither fact nor evidence of anything.

 

Until such time as you can separate yourself from that aspect of the analysis, you'll never comprehend what I am talking about.

 

As I have already said -- I have thoroughly acknowledged the likelihood that China's treatment of its inhabitants within its prisons is likely to be extremely brutal by Western Standards.

 

That said, inasmuch as China is, and remains, a sovereign nation with the powers and authority vested therein by the people that its government purports to represent, in whatever way that may be, then China has the authority to administer to its criminal element, as defined thereby, in whatever way it deems necessary, and it is not my moral imperative, nor my intention to criticize it for whatever actions it may take, from time to time, or at any time, until such government is deemed, by a majority of it population, in an open and free vote, to no longer represent the will, the authority and the well-being of the people that it purports to represent.

 

There are a wide variety of inhuman punishments being meted out by China upon its people -- some of which, I am sure, are quite miserable and tortuous, and some of which have already been listed herein this thread and summarily ignored by over-dramatic people trying to score brownie points and/or ease their social/moral consciences -- making someone play video games for 12 hours a day isn't one of them.

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Tell me -- why would a Chinese Prison allow ANYONE, in particular its inmates, access to the outside world? Doesn't this sound the least bit FISHY to you? No? Try again.

 

Imo, this is the most sensible thing you've said in this thread. Wish you said it 10 pages ago...

 

That's actually a very good point. Why would China, of all places, allow their inmates internet access?

 

To be fair to Blyaunte as well, as much as we like assuming that they forced them to endure sleep deprivation, etc, she does have a good point in saying that the article doesn't explicitly mention that.

 

And the story is quite sketchy.

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Let's see...

Could it be that:

-emigrating from China is a piece of cake?

 

Why would they need to emigrate? The original researched article by The Guardian, which, by the way, never mentions anything about prisons – features some genuine investigative reporting where they actually went to China and did some talking to real people.

Ok, except this isn't the article we're talking about. Li Hua isn't the same as the pseudonym Liu Dali used by the prisoner. Oh, and nice debasing of a legitimate source by claiming that they're not a real person. Classy.

 

Tell me -- why would a Chinese Prison allow ANYONE, in particular its inmates, access to the outside world? Doesn't this sound the least bit FISHY to you? No? Try again.

I don't know about other online games, but it's very easy to limit communication in RS. You simply lie about your age and get limited to quickchat only.

 

It still allows you a modicum of outside communication, which China is very strict about banning entirely.

They could easily monitor chat logs and brutally punish anyone who attempts to communicate, even a real time keylogger could inform guards midway through the prisoner typing any kind of offensive messages. So no, they wouldn't have to allow a modicum of outside communication. In fact, they could just physically alter the keyboards to only allow the prisoners to do the outlined tasks. WASD, space bar, numbers for hotkeys, and a mouse and you're all set.

 

I don't know how often we've repeated that these can be a tool for sleep deprivation and psychological torture, so I'll ask you this: what is your definition of torture? Because it seems to me that your definition is largely confined to the physical, but I might be wrong; it's obvious that neither side here is making any headway right now so it'd be best to at least know exactly where we stand.

 

Again with the "sleep deprivation" and "torture" drama -- NONE of which is mentioned in the original article. You're extrapolating ideas that aren't there. As I said before, stop letting your imagination run wild with you and read what is IN the article, and don't offer your own interpretation of it as being "factual" evidence of anything. It's your "opinion" -- it is neither fact nor evidence of anything.

You know, there is such a thing as subtly of language. For instance, you may find this New Yorker article about the Church of Scientology lacks an outright objective condemnation of the Church. Yet, by carefully diminishing the credibility of some sources and through a well-crafted tone he built an effective criticism of the entire operation. Now don't get me wrong, this article is not on par with the writing of the New Yorker by any stretch, but the article does convey information without telling us like we're 4th graders. I do not need to take a leap of faith to equate "And when the sun went down, he was set down in front of a computer and forced to play videogames. In addition to forcing inmates to preform tough manual labor, the prison had discovered the lucrative business of gold farming" with goldfarming in addition to manual labor, which would lead to sleep deprivation. We're all operating at some level of literacy, but often writing isn't black and white or perfectly in-your-face about what it's trying to say.

 

As I have already said -- I have thoroughly acknowledged the likelihood that China's treatment of its inhabitants within its prisons is likely to be extremely brutal by Western Standards.

 

That said, inasmuch as China is, and remains, a sovereign nation with the powers and authority vested therein by the people that its government purports to represent, in whatever way that may be, then China has the authority to administer to its criminal element, as defined thereby, in whatever way it deems necessary, and it is not my moral imperative, nor my intention to criticize it for whatever actions it may take, from time to time, or at any time, until such government is deemed, by a majority of it population, in an open and free vote, to no longer represent the will, the authority and the well-being of the people that it purports to represent.

 

There are a wide variety of inhuman punishments being meted out by China upon its people -- some of which, I am sure, are quite miserable and tortuous, and some of which have already been listed herein this thread and summarily ignored by over-dramatic people trying to score brownie points and/or ease their social/moral consciences -- making someone play video games for 12 hours a day isn't one of them.

Haha, free and open vote by the citizens of China to oppose and claim that the government there is illegitimate. You make me laugh. This short essay lists numerous ways the government claims legitimacy, but authority vested therein by the people through a representative government isn't one of them. That idea, that governments claim legitimacy through the consent of the governed is purely a Western ideal, and though I (And I do believe you too, since you invoked it) think it's probably the best system thus far the Chinese government does not claim that as one of its sources of legitimacy. And going by those ideals which we seem to have in common, this article also demonstrates the lack of populous-based legitimacy there.

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Regardless of all of these factors, being beaten, playing for 12 hours straight, and all of the harsh injustices that are completely NOT a laughing matter and destroy people's lives and are morally and politically WRONG in every way...

 

It still beats training Runecrafting.

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Regardless of all of these factors, being beaten, playing for 12 hours straight, and all of the harsh injustices that are completely NOT a laughing matter and destroy people's lives and are morally and politically WRONG in every way...

 

It still beats training Runecrafting.

Unless you're being beaten if you don't meet your ZMI quotas, hmm?

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Regardless of all of these factors, being beaten, playing for 12 hours straight, and all of the harsh injustices that are completely NOT a laughing matter and destroy people's lives and are morally and politically WRONG in every way...

 

It still beats training Runecrafting.

Unless you're being beaten if you don't meet your ZMI quotas, hmm?

That would be the worst, most inhumane, cruel, and despicable action ever committed by anyone in the history of this planet.

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I note that Bly is now arguing something very different from what she was arguing a few pages ago, which was different from what she was arguing a few pages before that.

Hmm...

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Horrible. Even though that I doubt that this would be as spread out as this previous prisoner claims that it is. It might very well happen in a few prisons, but not in several of them. Even if it is in China.

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