Illegal Immigration in the US

[Nomrombom]

So, what does TIF think of it?

 

 

I think that it's nowhere near as bad as some people make it sound. Basically, they do jobs people here don't want and try not to cause problems/commit crimes. Crime is the fastest way for them to be arrested and deported.

 

 

Drug mules I have some sympathy for, seeing as they live in poverty and are simply serving the demand from drugged up teenagers in the US.

 

 

Also, I recommend the documentary Food Inc. to anyone interested in that kind of thing. Very intriguing documentary - showed that major corporations (example, Tyson's Chikkin) hire illegal workers and keep it under wraps.

 

 

Enough about that though. What do you think?

[Star_Fox]

I'm against illegal immigrants. If they want to stay here, they'll have to go through the procedures just like the rest of us.

 

Illegal aliens take away job opportunities because their labor cost is dirt cheap. Not only that, they're also bringing in

children to exploit public services like food stamps, less tax, and cheap housing. Them having to pay less tax means

more tax has to be paid by hard working citizens. That also means social security services will be limited because

illegal aliens are taking away these opportunities from real citizens.

 

I read a news earlier on Yahoo! where

officials are trying to take away citizenship away from children born from Illegals. I hope it comes to existence because

not only would it make real US citizens like myself happy, it would spare more budgets for public services to give

to people who ARE citizens and in need.

[angel13]

I'm against illegal immigrants. If they want to stay here, they'll have to go through the procedures just like the rest of us.

Border hopping should compromise a death penalty.

This. I'd like to shoot them the moment they touch our soil.

[Range_This11]

Honestly, and I don't know why, I could really care less if there are illegal immigrants here. They're not taking any sort of high paying jobs that most American citizens aspire for. If they want to work for bare bones on a farm I say let them.

 

I will say though that it's easy to say "go through the procedures" when you were born here. Do you even know what the hoops people have to jump through to come to this country? And can you blame them? Mexico is a god damn war zone right now. I would leave through any means possible if that was going on here.

[Giordano]

I'm against illegal immigrants. If they want to stay here, they'll have to go through the procedures just like the rest of us.

 

Illegal aliens take away job opportunities because their labor cost is dirt cheap. Not only that, they're also bringing in

children to exploit public services like food stamps, less tax, and cheap housing.

Oh please. What did you do to earn your citizenship? Simply being born?

 

If everyone has to 'earn' their citizenship, we all should start over at 18 and work our way up. That way, we magically know who should benefit America.

 

There is no logical reasons for not allowing immigrants. Most agruments are fallacies, just false, and xenophobia, especially the last one.

 

 

 

I think the best way to start opening up the border is to allow college graduates/students/bound to recieve residency. As I said in the other thread, we desperately need human capital if America is to maintain it's economic superiority. Hell, this is a pretty selfish reason and not even worrying about the welfare of the immigrant. If you want America to succeed (as anti-immigration nutjobs clearly want) you can't disagree with that point.

[Giordano]

Im against it, a lot of the illegals here in California work in fast food with stolen Social Security numbers. The people they are using those numbers from are kids who are unemployed and will have terrible credit and have to deal with the IRS for tax evasions later and have to explain that they didnt have a job when they were 5 years old.

Yes. Lowering immigration laws it will solve that problem.

[Star_Fox]

I'm against illegal immigrants. If they want to stay here, they'll have to go through the procedures just like the rest of us.

 

Illegal aliens take away job opportunities because their labor cost is dirt cheap. Not only that, they're also bringing in

children to exploit public services like food stamps, less tax, and cheap housing.

Oh please. What did you do to earn your citizenship? Simply being born?

 

If everyone has to 'earn' their citizenship, we all should start over at 18 and work our way up. That way, we magically know who should benefit America.

 

:rolleyes:

 

It's not just me who was born in US but my parents who took their own effort to become citizens in this country AND

me. I'm rolling my eyes at your statement because of how many illegals would agree with you and how many citizens would

disagree with you. I was raised and educated here for my whole life so I think I've already earned it thank you so much.

Illegals were raised and educated in a DIFFERENT country. They have no standards to become citizens because

first off, they may not know how the law works (which is a clear indication of why they border hop in the first place)

They may not speak our languages and since their education is worth crap that it doesn't count, they even

take jobs away from people who have NO hope and education. Illegal immigrants are doing more harm than good to America.

Their mooching off public services and taking valuable opportunities away from people. That's a whole lot more

then working at a food joint for a couple of dollars...lol.

[champion]

I'm against illegal immigrants. If they want to stay here, they'll have to go through the procedures just like the rest of us.

Border hopping should compromise a death penalty.

This. I'd like to shoot them the moment they touch our soil.

What the [bleep]?

 

 

 

Most foreigners make better Americans anyways.

[aspeeder]

I'm against illegal immigrants. If they want to stay here, they'll have to go through the procedures just like the rest of us.

 

Illegal aliens take away job opportunities because their labor cost is dirt cheap. Not only that, they're also bringing in

children to exploit public services like food stamps, less tax, and cheap housing.

Oh please. What did you do to earn your citizenship? Simply being born?

 

If everyone has to 'earn' their citizenship, we all should start over at 18 and work our way up. That way, we magically know who should benefit America.

 

:rolleyes:

 

I was raised and educated here for my whole life so I think I've already earned it thank you so much.

 

So you've earned your stay by using up the public resources? The same thing the children of immigrants do?

 

Illegals were raised and educated in a DIFFERENT country. They have no standards to become citizens because

first off, they may not know how the law works (which is a clear indication of why they border hop in the first place)

 

Ignoring the children of illegal immigrants who would attend US schools and learn here, why does education constitute citizenship? Why doesn't community building, or working jobs no one else will take make you a part of a country? And just because they choose to forgo the law (Which, by the way illegal immigration is a CIVIL MISDEMEANOR, the same level of punishment when your neighbor complains if your lawn isn't tidy) doesn't mean they don't understand it or wouldn't follow it in all cases.

 

They may not speak our languages and since they're education is worth crap that it doesn't count, they even

take jobs away from people who have NO hope and education.

 

They don't have hope or education either, and in all honesty few natural born citizens are competing for the jobs which illegal immigrants take on a regular basis.

It might also interest you that illegal immigrants paid more federal taxes than GE, they contribute more to society than you know.

[Giordano]

I'm against illegal immigrants. If they want to stay here, they'll have to go through the procedures just like the rest of us.

 

Illegal aliens take away job opportunities because their labor cost is dirt cheap. Not only that, they're also bringing in

children to exploit public services like food stamps, less tax, and cheap housing.

Oh please. What did you do to earn your citizenship? Simply being born?

 

If everyone has to 'earn' their citizenship, we all should start over at 18 and work our way up. That way, we magically know who should benefit America.

 

:rolleyes:

 

It's not just me who was born in US but my parents who took their own effort to become citizens in this country AND

me. I'm rolling my eyes at your statement because of how many illegals would agree with you and how many citizens would

disagree with you. I was raised and educated here for my whole life so I think I've already earned it thank you so much.

Illegals were raised and educated in a DIFFERENT country. They have no standards to become citizens because

first off, they may not know how the law works (which is a clear indication of why they border hop in the first place)

They may not speak our languages and since they're education is worth crap that it doesn't count, they even

take jobs away from people who have NO hope and education.

 

I was expecting some serious examples. Those are all laughable.

 

Firstly, public American education is not the best in the world nor is it of much importance in this argument. Keep in mind, you are insulting more countries than I thought you could insult at a single time by calling their schools crap. Even the "1st world" Western countries that are educationally superior than American public schools.

 

Still on the first point, foreign college education is simply not 'crap'. Hell, the only way you're easily getting into this country is if you have some kind of formal specialty. Clearly, even the US government views foregin educational not as crap.

 

Secondly, legalizing immigration they won't be criminals. Solved that problem.

 

Thirdly, are you calling your parents crap? You should kill them for entering this sacred soil, it justifies the death penalty right? Just stupid.

[Star_Fox]

 

Thirdly, are you calling your parents crap? You should kill them for entering this sacred soil, it justifies the death penalty right? Just stupid.

 

No, you're just misunderstanding pretty much everything I said.

 

My dad is educated in Korea. He told me he took college for 2 years so that should get you a decent job, right? Well, guess what? in the U.S

my dad can't even get any jobs that requires a HS diploma or GED because my dad wasn't educated in U.S. He COULD probably get

a decent job if the district is strict on Korean education but since that's not the case, he cannot because pretty much no one would care

if you got a degree in a foreign country. If you don't have the education THEY WANT, then you can't get the job. That's what i meant by

"crap".

[Giordano]

 

Thirdly, are you calling your parents crap? You should kill them for entering this sacred soil, it justifies the death penalty right? Just stupid.

 

No, you're just misunderstanding pretty much everything I said.

 

My dad is educated in Korea. He told me he took college for 2 years so that should get you a decent job, right? Well, guess what, in the U.S

my dad can't even get any jobs that requires a HS diploma or GED because my dad wasn't educated in U.S. He COULD probably get

a decent job if the district is strict on Korean education since that's not the case, he cannot because pretty much no one would care

if you got a degree in a foreign country. If you weren't educated here, then you can't get the job. That's what i meant by

"crap".

So the possibility of a company not hiring you warrants NOBODY from entering...and getting shot?

 

My family's accountant was educated in Chile and he's got a job here. Your father must be working in something as well, or you wouldn't really be on the internet right now. Economic failure can happen here, I'm not reforming the economy so everyone gets profits. But politics shouldn't hinder natural individual economic rights.

[Zygimantas]

I'm illegal, I migrated here from Europe when I was 5 and I've grown up here in the U.S. Im going to finish my last few years of high school here and then see what I will do, because I know that I can get a good college education here, yet If laws don't change I wouldn't be able to use my education to get a good job here. I was really hoping for the dream act to pass so that I would be able to apply for citizenship without having to go back to my country for a number of years. But it didn't, and that's a shame...

[Giordano]

Then why would they steal SS numbers? Because the majority of jobs ask for them, or else they wouldn't steal SS numbers. Either legalize them or force companies to ignore the SS 'requirement'.

[proton]

I live on the Mexico/USA border, seeing those things are common as hell.

Every day, people USED to come to the border and apply LEGALY for a job but they mostly fail, so they stay here because they wasted all their savings getting up here to fail, so they have to live in such terrible conditions and slowly or fastly going to an illegal act like selling drugs/making them, trying to go illegaly there, killing people for money and so on....

 

Now the violence in my city is so common that people won't even come here anymore, our economics have been decreasing (Its increasing but only in some areas not in general, richer get richer bla bla), violence increases but it probably doesn't go up like it used to but I know for sure that the fear still exist and for a teenager like me it is sometimes hard to convince your fathers to go outside.

 

I normally go to USA and enjoy my life and buy some things but I'm more worried the stuff that happens here ,in my country, because of those topics than your country.

[obfuscator]

I work with several people (in IT no less) whose educations didn't come here. Granted, this is Canada, but still...

 

As far as I've seen, most of the anti-immigration rhetoric boils down to "lucky me, too bad for you".

[Faux]

legal immigration is fine. it's the ones who go jump over the people who *try* to come legally that's an issue

 

the argument i understand against illegal immigration is that that much unregulated population weakens US' social programs. illegal aliens who go to hospitals without health insurance, ones who get into accidents without car insurance, increased poverty, unchecked health issues that could potentially spread, etc.

[Giordano]

As far as I've seen, most of the anti-immigration rhetoric boils down to "lucky me, too bad for you".

Exactly. Unfortunatly, I get the impression people think I want to hold the hands of every Mexican, Chinese, etc and give them a house and a job here.

 

That's not the case. It's up for the individual to travel all the way here and risk whatever they want for whatever they think (whether or not this country is the land of opportunity) is here. A government should not stop them from doing that unless it harms others: which is surprisingly to Americans, a small minority who commit violence.

[aspeeder]

legal immigration is fine. it's the ones who go jump over the people who *try* to come legally that's an issue

 

the argument i understand against illegal immigration is that that much unregulated population weakens US' social programs. illegal aliens who go to hospitals without health insurance, ones who get into accidents without car insurance, increased poverty, unchecked health issues that could potentially spread, etc.

See my above post about illegals paying more in taxes than ge. Besides, most of those problems happen because immigration procedure is such a hampering process, if it was easier then the immigrants wouldn't be as destabilizing as people presume they are.

[Sir_Squab]

I'm against illegal immigrants. If they want to stay here, they'll have to go through the procedures just like the rest of us.

 

Illegal aliens take away job opportunities because their labor cost is dirt cheap. Not only that, they're also bringing in

children to exploit public services like food stamps, less tax, and cheap housing.

Oh please. What did you do to earn your citizenship? Simply being born?

 

If everyone has to 'earn' their citizenship, we all should start over at 18 and work our way up. That way, we magically know who should benefit America.

 

Hah. I was gonna stay out because, well, I live on the NORTH side of these U.S. borders this is discussing (i.e. I'm Canadian) but I like that comment.

 

Random thought: Mexicans in the U.S. are kinda similar to bots in RS. Both of them do jobs that people would rather avoid and depreciate the money one earns doing those jobs because they're willing to work at it for less. A bit sketchy, but there is a similarity.

[Giordano]

legal immigration is fine. it's the ones who go jump over the people who *try* to come legally that's an issue

 

the argument i understand against illegal immigration is that that much unregulated population weakens US' social programs. illegal aliens who go to hospitals without health insurance, ones who get into accidents without car insurance, increased poverty, unchecked health issues that could potentially spread, etc.

See my above post about illegals paying more in taxes than ge. Besides, most of those problems happen because immigration procedure is such a hampering process, if it was easier then the immigrants wouldn't be as destabilizing as people presume they are.

Not only that, but there are LEGAL citizens who don't have medical nor car insurance. What that does make them? Dangerous criminals that should be deported? Not likely.

 

 

 

 

Though this wasnt directed to me personally but since I am anti-immigration it involves me indirectly.

 

My attitude isn't anti-immigrant at all really, my attitude is anti leach. To anyone who pays their dues in education to learn the legal remedies our laws allow is someone I am more then happy enter the country.

 

To people who dont care to learn all that who want all the safety and benefits of America without paying any dues of learning english/our laws then I hope you get deported. Or go through the additional hell of trying to come here legally.

Anti-leech? Fine, so am I. But I find legal citizens (CEOs) who leeches off both legal and illegal taxpayers and lazy legal citizens leeching off welfare much worse than free high schools or emergency medical treatment for illegals.

[Faux]

legal immigration is fine. it's the ones who go jump over the people who *try* to come legally that's an issue

 

the argument i understand against illegal immigration is that that much unregulated population weakens US' social programs. illegal aliens who go to hospitals without health insurance, ones who get into accidents without car insurance, increased poverty, unchecked health issues that could potentially spread, etc.

See my above post about illegals paying more in taxes than ge. Besides, most of those problems happen because immigration procedure is such a hampering process, if it was easier then the immigrants wouldn't be as destabilizing as people presume they are.

 

legal citizens pay more taxes than illegals and GE *employs* people who in turn pay taxes .

 

immigration *is* supposed to be a hampering process. governments want healthy individuals who can contribute to society, not someone who mows lawns.

 

Not only that, but there are LEGAL citizens who don't have medical nor car insurance. What that does make them? Dangerous criminals that should be deported? Not likely.

 

uhhh yeah, it's illegal not drive without car insurance , at least here in canada. you actually lose your driver's license. do illegal immigrants apply for licenses?

[aspeeder]

legal immigration is fine. it's the ones who go jump over the people who *try* to come legally that's an issue

 

the argument i understand against illegal immigration is that that much unregulated population weakens US' social programs. illegal aliens who go to hospitals without health insurance, ones who get into accidents without car insurance, increased poverty, unchecked health issues that could potentially spread, etc.

See my above post about illegals paying more in taxes than ge. Besides, most of those problems happen because immigration procedure is such a hampering process, if it was easier then the immigrants wouldn't be as destabilizing as people presume they are.

 

legal citizens pay more taxes than illegals and GE *employs* people who in turn pay taxes .

 

immigration *is* supposed to be a hampering process. governments want healthy individuals who can contribute to society, not someone who mows lawns.

Mmmmmm, stereotyping, gotta love it. And I understand that it's supposed to take effort, but there's a point where the eligibility requirements become too strict to allow people who want a legitimate lifestyle to obtain one. Oh, and to the point about ge, apart from paying wages ge profited 14 billion dollars; and didn't pay a cent in taxes on it. THAT IS BAD.

 

I am just as much against legal leeches as illegals :lol:

 

However legal leeches are protected by current law and illegal leeches just put additional strain on an already broken system.

So, you're against illegal immigration because there are laws supporting undue discrimination against it which you admit are broken. You are allowed to protest laws that you believe to be unjust or dysfunctional...

[Faux]

 

Mmmmmm, stereotyping, gotta love it. And I understand that it's supposed to take effort, but there's a point where the eligibility requirements become to strict to allow people who want a legitimate lifestyle to obtain one. Oh, and to the point about ge, apart from paying wages ge profited 14 billion dollars; and didn't pay a cent in taxes on it. THAT IS BAD.

 

so \because there's a loophole where GE doesn't have to pay taxes, illegal immigration should be allowed?

[aspeeder]

 

Mmmmmm, stereotyping, gotta love it. And I understand that it's supposed to take effort, but there's a point where the eligibility requirements become to strict to allow people who want a legitimate lifestyle to obtain one. Oh, and to the point about ge, apart from paying wages ge profited 14 billion dollars; and didn't pay a cent in taxes on it. THAT IS BAD.

 

so \because there's a loophole where GE doesn't have to pay taxes, illegal immigration should be allowed?

You're missing the forests for the trees. What the tax argument is about is trying to convey that illegal immigrants do contribute to our society, often more so than entities which originated in America, and so the stereotypes about illegal immigrants and opposition to illegal immigration is rooted in erroneous beliefs.