Rule-breaking and the role of a fansite

[jijilentosmi]

Negative ghostrider. Just because there are bots, doesn't mean there should be bots. Jagex just needs to man up and actually ban them instead of giving them a week off.

[Logdotzip]

I'm glad it's not allowed still, technically

 

Then gold prices would plummet and a lot of my good friends would be making far less money off their staking earnings. Three of my friends have new cars, amongst other purchases, thanks to Jagex's lack of giving a s**t. It's like free money out of nowhere.

 

I say no against tip.it encouraging botting and such for the above reason, not because I care about the rules and morals attached to them.

[langer]

Ohhh some interesting replies while I was at work.

 

@ Swedishboy

 

I agree with most of your post except for the part 2. Even though Jagex still say that botting is against the rules, there is ample evidence that a major part of the community is already botting a great portion of the game. Making them legal would only change the behavior of currently legit players who are too scared to bot now and risk their accounts.

 

@ Guidesforscape

 

Your analogy is flawed (slightly)... the authorities are not struggling to control it, they are unwilling to punish the "wrongdo'ers".

[The_Fray]

So you say that because there are to many bots we should give everyone the information how to bot to get even more bots? That is like making a website how to break into a house because there are already to many people doing that.

The main problem about bots is not that they skill easier then you do, the problem is that they screw up the economy (dbones, essence etc. and ofc. the value of golden coins) and when people want to do something like mining (at f2p), or frost dragons (p2p) they have to compete against 5-20 bots. This takes away the fun for not botters.

 

Creating more bots does not solve the problem that there are to much bots, as simple as that.

For me it isn't the prices that bother me, it is the game play for myself and others being affected by said bots. I was a lot happier when the bots confined themselves to certain areas but now it seems as if they are everywhere. It was much easier to avoid them when they were at the essence mine, green dragons etc.

[Wessan]

Theres plenty of boards for rule breaking as it is, and I would rather not attract all the phishers and scammers that call those boards home to come over here.

 

^This. I like that when I come to Tip.It it is not filled with spammers. Every now and then we will see someone post a topic usually in General Discussion that is an obvious scam, but not often.

 

And props to the moderators for quickly dispatching of such threads.

[GuidesForScapers]

@ Guidesforscape

 

Your analogy is flawed (slightly)... the authorities are not struggling to control it, they are unwilling to punish the "wrongdo'ers".

Disagree, Jagex couldn't detect a bot if it was sat in a random for 4 weeks clicking the same spot.

 

Omali, welcome to my signature.

[langer]

@ Guidesforscape

 

Your analogy is flawed (slightly)... the authorities are not struggling to control it, they are unwilling to punish the "wrongdo'ers".

Disagree, Jagex couldn't detect a bot if it was sat in a random for 4 weeks clicking the same spot.

 

Omali, welcome to my signature.

 

Never said anything about detecting... I said punishing. Jagex already receives countless reports from players about botting. They are just unwilling to punish paying accounts.

[GuidesForScapers]

@ Guidesforscape

 

Your analogy is flawed (slightly)... the authorities are not struggling to control it, they are unwilling to punish the "wrongdo'ers".

Disagree, Jagex couldn't detect a bot if it was sat in a random for 4 weeks clicking the same spot.

 

Omali, welcome to my signature.

 

Never said anything about detecting... I said punishing. Jagex already receives countless reports from players about botting. They are just unwilling to punish paying accounts.

 

I guess so. They just need to l2distinguish between legitimate players who decided to bot out of stupidity and those that mass farm gold. Which is extremely easy to do, just not automatically sadly =[

 

I am more than happy for 'casual' botters to be given temp bans, but gold farmers need to get permed first time round.

[Serpent Eye]

Both as a retired Tip.It staff member and an avid RS player... I find the idea of Tip.It or TIF endorsing/providing/allowing botting guides, gold-farming guides, etc., to be laughable.

[pal2002]

Props to OP for saying some truth. Tip.it and Jagex would never openly endorse cheating. But look at the attitudes of both RSOF and TIF communities toward us "bot whiners." Threads are getting deleted and moved to gutters. All of a sudden we are the "bad guys." I really want to ask, does TIF want to become the current largest RS communities - eg. the botting forums? They have 10x the online population of TIF at any time...

 

Denial and cracking down on "bot whining" is really not that far from endorsing cheating. Since it appears very much the norm here how cheating is tolerated, why not follow the OP's suggestion? Tip.it WILL become a popular fansite if it happens. Is that what you all want?

[Wessan]

To allow all the threads that complain about bots would be just as bad as allowing all the threads to continue that have false information or even scams.

 

Is that to say complaining about bots is as bad as scamming? ABSOLUTELY NOT. However, when they both overrun the forums and do not allow for other discussions, removing them is the only option.

 

That being said, there have been plenty of bot complaint threads that have stuck around on the forums, made it a few pages, and slowly died as most threads do. This was because even though the original post was a complaint, the main idea and argument sparked legitimate discussion.

[Lose No Hope]

Since it appears very much the norm here how cheating is tolerated

How is that true?

[pal2002]

Since it appears very much the norm here how cheating is tolerated

How is that true?

Every single bot related thread - you will ~30% of people go on about how bot don't hurt the game and/or will make their 99 prayer soo much cheaper, and 30% of people go on about how I place too much emphasis on a game (ie. cheating is okay in most games...why not RS), and always people who think Jagex is doing a great job with botters and that there just happened to be all those players who don't talk, have names like lllLLLLl11lll, and grind soul wars 24/7. No, that lllllLLLL111lLL is NEVER a dead give away....etc.. and lastly as OP brought up - the banishment of all "bot whining" threads to a very hard to find corner of the forum - even RSOF has a more visible sticky...

 

btw, I have quit the game now - but I'm just taking up anti botting as my whatever activist cause here and and on RSOF. Like save the dolphins and such crap.

[Wessan]

Good Luck, and you should know that it is about 90% of this community who do not support botting, probably more.

[Lose No Hope]

Since it appears very much the norm here how cheating is tolerated

How is that true?

Every single bot related thread - you will ~30% of people go on about how bot don't hurt the game and/or will make their 99 prayer soo much cheaper, and 30% of people go on about how I place too much emphasis on a game (ie. cheating is okay in most games...why not RS), and always people who think Jagex is doing a great job with botters and that there just happened to be all those players who don't talk, have names like lllLLLLl11lll, and grind soul wars 24/7. No, that lllllLLLL111lLL is NEVER a dead give away....etc.. and lastly as OP brought up - the banishment of all "bot whining" threads to a very hard to find corner of the forum - even RSOF has a more visible sticky...

 

btw, I have quit the game now - but I'm just taking up anti botting as my whatever activist cause here and and on RSOF. Like save the dolphins and such crap.

So based on your generalizations of the community, we tolerate cheating? :rolleyes:

 

And some of the bot threads are merged/locked because they are saying the same things that fit the criteria of the sticky. The mods do that to any threads that discuss what is already being discussed in another thread.

[pal2002]

Since it appears very much the norm here how cheating is tolerated

How is that true?

Every single bot related thread - you will ~30% of people go on about how bot don't hurt the game and/or will make their 99 prayer soo much cheaper, and 30% of people go on about how I place too much emphasis on a game (ie. cheating is okay in most games...why not RS), and always people who think Jagex is doing a great job with botters and that there just happened to be all those players who don't talk, have names like lllLLLLl11lll, and grind soul wars 24/7. No, that lllllLLLL111lLL is NEVER a dead give away....etc.. and lastly as OP brought up - the banishment of all "bot whining" threads to a very hard to find corner of the forum - even RSOF has a more visible sticky...

 

btw, I have quit the game now - but I'm just taking up anti botting as my whatever activist cause here and and on RSOF. Like save the dolphins and such crap.

So based on your generalizations of the community, we tolerate cheating? :rolleyes:

 

And some of the bot threads are merged/locked because they are saying the same things that fit the criteria of the sticky. The mods do that to any threads that discuss what is already being discussed in another thread.

Note the sarcastic overtone in my original post. It's clear that most of TIF is against cheating - but we're also becoming quieter, and trying to deny/ignore/live with it. Like in psychology, denial is often the first step to acceptance. Cheating in RS not something I want to see gradually being accepted. And I believe we're on a dangerous path if we continue to deny, and contiune to silence.

[Lose No Hope]

What do you expect? We can't do anything, and it appears that either Jagex doesn't give a damn, does a crap job at stopping bots, or both.

[pal2002]

What do you expect? We can't do anything, and it appears that either Jagex doesn't give a damn, does a crap job at stopping bots, or both.

 

Well, we can at least not lock all the anti-cheating threads and put up a visible message here that we at least don't support bots here. Locking legit anti-cheating threads is supporting cheating IMO.

[Lose No Hope]

When those threads say the same thing in slight variation, wouldn't it be better for those discussions to be held in one place, instead of split into multiple smaller places?

[pal2002]

When those threads say the same thing in slight variation, wouldn't it be better for those discussions to be held in one place, instead of split into multiple smaller places?

 

I've made a few anti cheating threads in general - each get 3K+ views. The bigger anti-cheating threads get 10K+ views and hundreds of replies. Now look at that lonely sticky in rants after all the threads were supposedbly combined banished there. It has <2K views and barely any replies because NOBODY can find it. I only found it because of OP here mentioned it. I was wondering exactly where did all that community passion against cheating suddenly went. That is what is happening here. It may not be the mods' intention -but they're in essence supporting the cheaters.

[elucin8er]

I've basically accepted the new [cabbage]ty RS run by MMG will base decisions on gaining more money, regardless of any rule breaking. There is a lack of effort in updates, and basically 0 customer supported as this takes up time, resources and MONEY. Those who still play through this hoard of unfair unbanable bots are either addicted grinders or enjoy the game enough to not be too affected by it. I am the latter, but I admit I am now on a month by month paying as sometimes I am disheartened to compete with bots, especially now they actually have bots to complete dungeoneering and obtain their chaotic weapons. It makes me feel foolish for grinding in some certain areas simply to enjoy other aspects of the game moreso ( Nex requires several levels that must be grinded, Bandos funner with ovys etc etc ) when others simply bot the boring bits and get to play through the enjoyment phases.

 

This factor I believe, drives people to either play less, or bot themselves. For those who don't have the money to bot the boring aspects or simply view it as cheating ( my views ) the line becomes thing and the game could eventually be driven to extinction, revamped in Runescape 3, or be highly dominated by bots 90% + I believe in the meantime jagex couldn't care less, as long as they are still making the most amount of money possible.

 

1. My proposition then, is not to accept botting, but to have the botters labelled. Beside your name you could have an identification that associates you with botting ( Jagex can detect botting if they tried, they just choose not to ) so people know you have botted. This could exclude people from certain activities initiated by non cheaters, or simply receieve no regognition of their achievements. e.g. 1. "wow a non botted agil cape, nice job man." e.g. 2. "Your botted capes are worthless." However, although Jagex are clearly fine with botters, they will never admit it, bringing me to another idea.

 

2. 2nd prop is to make botting much harder for players. Botters could still bot, so no money loss there from Jagex, but unsatisfied players could strike back against botters. This process would have to be able to be carried out by players, with aids from Jagex ( cannon blocking, nature rune dropping player invented, need more solid methods ).

 

An example could be isolating suspected botters in a box, unable to continue performing activities. They must match the player inputted text ( similar to sleeping bags ) to get out, and upon solving can not be trapped for another hour ( to save spam trapping lol ). This technique could obviously not be used in combat or in the wilderness ( although bots in the wild are asking for it anyway lol ). This is just a sample method, maybe player inputted colour identifying, but then that conflicts with colour blindness etc ..... if anyone has ideas that'd be great.

 

TL:DR. Bots are here to stay, Jagex needs to label them or give us players tools to make their lives harder else the game will die.

[pal2002]

@elucin8er

 

Although I would much rather them actually perm ban the bots, I have arrived to the point where I actually really like your idea. If they're not gonna ban them, at least label them!

[Serpent Eye]

I just don't see how Jagex's lack of care against botting should mean that Tip.It needs to start catering to those botters. We are a fansite, but we are still a separate entity - we don't have to go down the same path that Jagex always goes down.

 

And I strongly disagree that by locking or merging discussions on botting, the Tip.It Admins/staff are "encouraging" botting or trying to "banish" topics. From a logistical standpoint, it is much easier to mod/oversee one or two centralized topics, rather than having three new topics about botting posted on a weekly basis. I don't think it's anything more diabolical than that.

[essiw]

@ Guidesforscape

 

Your analogy is flawed (slightly)... the authorities are not struggling to control it, they are unwilling to punish the "wrongdo'ers".

Disagree, Jagex couldn't detect a bot if it was sat in a random for 4 weeks clicking the same spot.

 

Omali, welcome to my signature.

 

Never said anything about detecting... I said punishing. Jagex already receives countless reports from players about botting. They are just unwilling to punish paying accounts.

So if the authorities are unwilling to punish them we should all do it? It still doesn't make the world better. And I don't think Jagex is unwilling, do you have any source (facts) where you got that unwilling from?

[SomeNut]

this thread seems to have a similar tone to a topic about the drug wars