The Back Room

[Leiana]

Speaking of my episodes... They've gotten very violent.... That's not good is it?

[The_Mather1]

Better than suicidal.

[archimage_a]

The correct universe is the universe in which the observer is situated. As for how you explained division of universes your first analogy explains it perfectly well, the current universe is neither of the future alternatives, but nor are them it, as it divides it ceases to be a universe in its own and rather becomes the common part of the alternatives, the alternatives did not exist in parallel to it because they spring from it.

 

It comes down to this...Do you believe that the First law of Thermodynamics is inviolable.

I believe that it is.

Thus you cannot magick universes into existance, they either exist or they don't...end of story.

As such they must exist has layers which exist side by side.

 

 

Or you can take the view that the First Law of Thermodynamics is violable.

In which you have no problem in say that more and more universes can come into existance.

 

 

 

 

 

Also it would be better if you didn't send out insults.

Not to question your skills as a phsychologist...But I have no idea where you get the idea that I am self loathing...

[Leiana]

Archi, he aimed the self loathing thing at me, not you.

 

One of the good things about knowing him is that I don't have to pay him for speaking to me. :thumbup: Tobe honest, there has been some progress... I haven't had a suicidal thought for almost a whole month now. Breaking down into tears is another story, since now the tears are mostly because of family tensions and minor self issues I don't bother mentioning due to how minor they are.

[archimage_a]

I see...Insulting people who are not would also be a better idea.

[Leiana]

Oh yeah just to let y'all know, I lost the comic competition. Oh well. Im no comedian anyway. I'm better at ice skating.

[Resistance]

Better than suicidal.

I would disagree, feeling suicidal is not at all better then having violent episodes because Leiana has clearly not commited suicide yet but violent episodes are a clear danger to herself and others. Of course I would need more information to make a full judgement but to me it seems common sense that suicidal episodes are better than violent episodes.

 

In response to the discussion of the parallel universe theory, you need to realise that some things just won't happen

 

being stabbed in the face by a monkey wielding Cleopatra's severed third hand while dancing waltz with Elvis Presley in the fallout-contaminated streets of Monaco...

For the above to happen

 

The monkey has to has to want to stab Mather in the face, it has to have a reason for doing so.

The monkey must be in the streets of Monaco which is unlikely on its own, it could have escaped from the zoo, been illegally imported or been native to Monaco due to some event in history.

The monkey would have to be cabable of stabbing Mather, I'm not sure as to whether a monkey would be capable of doing so.

The monkey will have had to get hold of Cleopatra's third hand, this would be a historical artefact that monkeys wouldn't really be able to get there hands on.

Cleopatra would have had to have been born with a third hand, this would be a genetic anomaly and would require some sort of change in the body. Since there could only have been two parents for Cleopatra (any other parents would mean that it is not Cleopatra, it is another person) then this is another thing that although I am not a biologist woud assume is impossible without a genetic defect in the parents.

Cleopatra's third hand would have had survived.

Elvis would have to survive to 72.

Elvis would be 72, he probably wouldn't be able to waltz.

Elvis might not know how to waltz.

Elvis might not want to waltz with you.

Elvis might not meet you.

Elvis might not have even been born due to all the changes throughout history for this prediciment to occur.

You might not have even been born due to all the changes throughout history for this prediciment to occur.

You won't be able to get to Monaco, if they're fallout-contaminated then it would be a no-fly-zone

If you were a resident of Monaco you'd probably be dead from the nuclear blast or from radiation sickness.

 

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the parallel universe theory doesn't mean that in some universes it will be a magical place of wonder and magic, it will not be the fictional world you described. The above scenario is impossible there is no way that all of those could happen, it would be an impossibility.

[Icuownage]

Don't think parralel universe = infinite universe.

 

 

Also it is believed that some of these universes will have different laws of physics and such.

[The_Mather1]

I'm literally laughing my ass of at how stupid that claim is. According to the theory of infinite universes, everything has happened and will continue to happen at every time, nothing is truly impossible, the change would just have to start earlier, heck, according to it there has even been one in which the big bang never happened and instead the big implosion caused space itself to collapse on itself and cease to exist, effectively erasing the universe.

 

Also you should learn to think before you speak on regards to the mental health of others, back when I started "saving" Lei she actually considered herself dead. I also spoke out of personal experience because I by far prefer craving to beat someone up to the wish to hang myself, at least then I can get some of the frustration out by putting a dent in my wall.

[Retech]

I think most of your arguments, Resistance, are based on semantics.

 

If you define Cleopatra as the living person with a certain set of characteristics living in this universe, then yes, the situation could not happen by definition.

 

---

 

And you know that the theory...is a theory, right?

[Leiana]

Oh great, people are arguing about my problems. Just stop it, before I decide to flip out over this.

 

Oh, and for the record, I have tried to commit suicide a couple of times, but they have failed obviously.

[archimage_a]

Well, Ico, other universes can have other laws, that is true...But if you view it as ALL of creation, aka everything...Then it either has to have:

1) Infinate energy to feed the creation of new universes.

2) All the universes have to already exist, and have an allocated amount of energy (which is immense, but those universes never exceed that amount since everything is already predetermined.)

 

We can't premise that universes themselves generate energy (unless we accept the first point that there is infinate energy at the top of the chain, in which case it becomes moot) because it would be like a Computer running itself faster than it could actually run.

 

Like if you had a 2 gallon pool and you put 4 gallons of water in, then the water would overflow.

 

 

Now, my personal belief is that there is not infinate energy...Largely because I don't believe in infinty...as a mathmatical concept it is valid, but in terms of the practical....meta-verse...it doesn't make any sense, as anything that was infinate would deny the existance of anything else.

[The_Mather1]

There isn't infinite energy, however the the creation of a new universe, a big bang, divides void into matter and anti-matter which upon the recombination of which energy is created, presumably out of what would have been the anti-matter to nullify the remaining matter which formed... everything...

 

Makes sense even though it is odd. Einstein told us energy and matter can be transformed into eachother, likewise anti-matter should be transformable into anti-energy, which really just is energy moving the other way, thus it is just plain energy.

[Resistance]

Icuownage, I am not sure as to whether a new set of physics would even be possible in this universe and parallel universes, if our universe was created from the big bang then all other parallel universes would be subject to the same physics however I am also sure that technology or random occurrences could create exceptions.

 

Mather, but all of those things happening is an impossibility so they wouldn't happen in an infinite amount of universes or not. Besides you're arguing about a non-existant subject, something less likely then God existing and even if they did exist they wouldn't even make a difference to our lives. You can go on forever and ever about how nothing is impossible but the fact is that it is impossible for all of those things to happen in occurrence.

You basically proved my point, it is preferable to be a danger to yourself then a danger to your family and people around you. And as violent episodes can be solved by a punch to the wall suicidal episodes can also be solved in a similar way, the difference is that one is potentially a danger to others but one can be controlled.

 

Leiana, have you seen a doctor about this? You really need to do so if this problem is continuing.

[archimage_a]

It is possible that you start at point 1, where there is only 1 universe, and then 'infinate' univeres spawned from that.

 

Infinate is used as a 'really large' not actually infinate, because there is a finite number of combinations possible.

 

 

What would be simpler and more efficent is that all the possible universes existed and every infinate of a second we progress from one to another, creating the illusion of time passing....But that is probably several dozen arguments so lets just leave it there.

[Leiana]

Oh HELL NO I am not going to the doctors about that. They'll want to further investigate and whatnot. I ain't lettin that happen again. 99% of all the doctors I've had are EVIL, they keep trying to get my parents into making me and my autistic brother into taking medication. Taking medication for anything besides the necessary is unnessessary and wrong.

[Resistance]

I have tried to commit suicide a couple of times

 

Taking medication for anything besides the necessary is unnessessary and wrong.

[Icuownage]

I actually agree with Res on this matter.

[The_Mather1]

Mather, but all of those things happening is an impossibility so they wouldn't happen in an infinite amount of universes or not. Besides you're arguing about a non-existant subject, something less likely then God existing and even if they did exist they wouldn't even make a difference to our lives. You can go on forever and ever about how nothing is impossible but the fact is that it is impossible for all of those things to happen in occurrence.

You basically proved my point, it is preferable to be a danger to yourself then a danger to your family and people around you. And as violent episodes can be solved by a punch to the wall suicidal episodes can also be solved in a similar way, the difference is that one is potentially a danger to others but one can be controlled.

They could not possibly happen in this universe, but even so, it is reality in another. The word impossibility is invalid when it comes to discussing the multiverse, everything is circumstantial and everything that never happened or could have happened has happened in half the other universes.

And no, there is no way to let out suicidality, the closest thing would be going emo and rasping up your wrist, and though I like my scars they need a funny or sappy cause or a reason for me to brag about them, I'd rather pick a fight and let myself be stabbed than to make the scars myself through anything other than testing my pain tolerance or scarification.

 

And leave Lei alone, I fixed her, she's only has one mood swing a month and I'd be more worried if she didn't.

[Leiana]

There is a reason why I'm against taking medication. Who knows how many teens a day die from an medicine allergy or an overdose of medication? That ain't gonna be me. And I do have an medicine allergy. It wasnt serious last time I had it, because it was caught before it got serious. I dont want anything to do with medication unless I know I have taken it before and it hasn't caused an allergic reaction.

[Icuownage]

I can see how that would affect you. If I had a medication allergy I would definately be worried about taking other medication. But you have to realise NOT all medication is the same, and you are also told to bring up your medication allergies to doctors, and as you said you were treated for one, that means they know about it, although you should bring it up to make sure.

 

But yeah, if you're trying to kill yourself, you need help. If you don't seek help, you end up dying.

[Resistance]

Leiana thats a stupid reason. Doctors normally will give you an allergy test if you are being put on new medication and will almost certainly give you one if you have any qualms about it, besides most medicine in the form of tablets is hypoallergenic anyway.

You're having violent and suicidal episodes and you're refusing treatment which is candidly ridiculous.

 

Mather, it doesn't matter your preference is; assaulting people because you're angry is wrong and it would be much safer if people with mental health issues were suicidal so that they could be controlled and are not a danger to the public. And you're not fixing her at all you need to refer her to a doctor to help instead of playing a doctor, one who openly claims that assaulting people is an improvement from feeling suicidal.

[Leiana]

Alright that's it. STOP WORRYING ABOUT ME! I'm fine now, and I think that's what matters for the moment. I prefer my non-medicated self anyway.

[The_Mather1]

Res, I do not go around assaulting people, when I get an urge to punch something, I punch my wall, I would not however have second thoughts about assaulting people who go out of their way to provoke me or seem to do so through simply not caring *cough*.

There is also no doubt that my work with Lei was fruitful, I can safely say that because I'm already done, she's happier and more annoying than ever.

 

Now may I remind you that what you are currently stating is borderline inhumane and may actually be in contradiction to the declaration of human rights?

[Resistance]

Jekyll was fine until he started murdering people. It doesn't matter what YOU prefer when you're having violent episodes which are a risk to others around you.