The Back Room

[Retech]

?

 

I was thinking about combining soulknife (which manifests its weapon psionically) and some sort of non-broken homebrew version of Vow of Poverty that Wyvren comes up with, so I don't have to deal with that loot crap that I always seem to end up in with you guys. :)

[Nexaduro]

Sorry, that was a preemptive NO because I saw that you were posting. I wouldn't know, actually. :P

[Corvus]

Wyvren, will "Psionics Unleashed" be allowed? It's a 3rd party from Dreamscarred Press, I believe.

I guess I was not clear enough, if you request an Entire 3rd party source I will most likely deny it, as you are supposed to request individual character options out of it.

tl,dr: No, I will not allow the entire book (you may still request individual pieces of content out of the book)

[archimage_a]

Wild stab in the dark, but I would say that him saying '3rd party rules will be subject to approval' meant that '3rd party rule books are not subject to approval, please consult me on specific rules'

[Retech]

Ah okay.

 

I'd like to request the Soulknife class from the Psionics book.

 

Linky: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife

 

EDIT: And the Pyrokineticist prestige class:

 

Linky: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/pyrokineticist

 

(But I would like to refluff it)

[Corvus]

?

 

I was thinking about combining soulknife (which manifests its weapon psionically) and some sort of non-broken homebrew version of Vow of Poverty that Wyvren comes up with, so I don't have to deal with that loot crap that I always seem to end up in with you guys. :)

Okay, here goes my list:

Soulknife - No. there are some decently obvious tricks to make a gamebreaking character, that while it may be able to be prevented by GM intervention it would require me to apply arbitrary restrictions on the use of class abilities on the spot, and it would require the addition of the entire psionics situation to the game making things more confusing.

Vow of Poverty - There is not really a method to create a non broken form of Vow of poverty, as the foundation for the feat is almost entirely broken, especially full casters and magically generated weapon classes (such as Soul Knife, which is a light armor melee class, which bypasses the poverty part of the vow of poverty by getting a magical weapon which becomes even more magical and the vow of Poverty more than makes up for the lack of wearing physical armor if the character is to remain playable). Really the only way to make something along its lines work is to give it a prerequisite of not having a fair few different classes. Additionally you would not solve the loot issue at all as with vow of poverty you still need to get your fair share of loot to donate to chairty. (so the gods don't smite you for trying to pull a fast one on them)

Pyrokineticist - depends somewhat on the class that go with it so will wait on a full ruling for the possibility of you requesting another psionic class.

[Grim_]

I'd be interested to play as a stand in or a replacement (in case you need another player because one cannot make a session). Would there be Tengus in your setting, and if so how would they be fluffed? I was thinking sort of a gypsy/river people armada of ships that occasionally came into town and traded for supplies, with some moving to the larger cities, gaining a (possibly) unfair ill fame as thieves and criminals.

[Retech]

Actually, I'm going to pull out. Grim looks more interested.

[Nexaduro]

I don't understand; how is Vow of Poverty broken? Are you talking about the Monk thing? Does that even do anything for other classes?

[Retech]

Well, it's broken in the sense that while it tries to adequately compensate the character with AC bonuses, feats, and special abilities, it does not actually do so.

 

Many of its abilities don't scale effectively with character level. For example, many encounters are designed in a way that it assumes that characters of certain levels have certain abilities. For example, dragons often necessitate flight, but VOP characters cannot get them easily. And also, it can be read in ways where you're not allowed to use doorknobs or something. Hence why I was asking for a homebrewed one that actually made sense.

 

Ironically, monks are one of the classes that are least capable of using VOP, because they already have bad class abilities.

[Nexaduro]

But Vow of Poverty just adds to your Ki pool.

[Corvus]

Okay, just a quick explanation of why Vow of Poverty is fundamentally broken (in terms of game balancing):

The concept of Vow of poverty is that it is intended to allow for roleplaying of a character who has decided that for the greater good that they will give up their material possessions and help others, which would under normal rules make a character unplayable. In order to make the resulting character still playable in a party, the feat has to provide alternatives to the weapons and armor that a character of that level would possesss. However this is where things start to fall apart as the Price of giving up almost everything you own is far from balanced, with some classes giving up their core source of power (ex. Fighters) while other classes are giving up little (ex. Soulblade, Druid, and Sorcerer) for a standard reward which does not adequately deal the fundamental differences between classes (such as giving light armor-simple weapon classes the exact same benefits as a heavy armor-Martial weapon class)

Really, the feat only works if you are using it in the context it was originally intended for, Serious Roleplaying where you are playing the role of a person who gives up everything they own to help those around them as opposed to simply trying to make the most powerful character imaginable. I do not mean to offend you by saying this Retech, but it seems rather unlikely that you were wanting the use of the Vow of Poverty in order Roleplay such a character especially with the desired class of Soulblade.

 

Nex, To be specific Retech was requesting the Old D&D 3.5 form of the vow of Poverty which is extremely different from the Pathfinder monk vow.

 

Grim, Tengu's seems reasonably fine to have and I will say they work without a level adjustment. and I will have them in the setting in the role that you suggested.

[Nexaduro]

Will we be spending much time in boats/on the water?

[Leiana]

I finally learned what it's like to be hurt beyond belief. Insulted by someone I considered to be family, hated by my biological family, and losing all my friends...What's next? Well, I ain't giving up, that's what. I'm gonna fight my way back, and I hope someone will give me the encouragement. Whoever that is may not be here, or anywhere. But I'll make my way back. Starting here. I'm not leaving. I'm staying. And those who don't like it can just ignore me like they've been doing.

[The_Mather1]

Wow, who'd guess my most impressive success as of yet would be the result of me snapping. Although I'm sort of disturbed by how you're applying my reason for survival when you have an actual one yourself.

 

Nex, this time you can't blame me, she was complaining about how I'm not trying to pretend that my life doesn't suck, which somehow trailed off into discussing how she shouldn't skip breakfast and how arguing for it was stupid. Then once she started accusing me of lying about god knows what (as usual), I told her to [bleep] off.

[Ieyfura]

Oh look, the drama's returned. Insert sarcastic YAY here.

[Retech]

That's why I asked you to homebrew a less broken and tailored version of VOP instead of what was written.

 

Indeed, my intention was not to play a virtuous and ascetic "monk" like character, but merely to remove myself from the arguments on loot. (Which I later found out from you, that it would not do)

 

 

 

 

But that doesn't really matter now, considering I won't be playing, but just wanted to clarify.

[Nexaduro]

I finally learned what it's like to be hurt beyond belief. Insulted by someone I considered to be family, hated by my biological family, and losing all my friends...What's next? Well, I ain't giving up, that's what. I'm gonna fight my way back, and I hope someone will give me the encouragement. Whoever that is may not be here, or anywhere. But I'll make my way back. Starting here. I'm not leaving. I'm staying. And those who don't like it can just ignore me like they've been doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v9ZA4thCAY&feature=related

 

But seriously... Good for you, Lynx. Your greatest power is your own.

[Icuownage]

I finally learned what it's like to be hurt beyond belief. Insulted by someone I considered to be family, hated by my biological family, and losing all my friends...What's next? Well, I ain't giving up, that's what. I'm gonna fight my way back, and I hope someone will give me the encouragement. Whoever that is may not be here, or anywhere. But I'll make my way back. Starting here. I'm not leaving. I'm staying. And those who don't like it can just ignore me like they've been doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v9ZA4thCAY&feature=related

 

But seriously... Good for you, Lynx. Your greatest power is your own.

 

Don't want to sound like an ass here but you're probably over dramatising.

 

And @Nex, it's much harder to get anywhere in life by yourself, infact I would say the power you get from a group could easily overpower something you'd do by yourself.

[Leiana]

And what made this all worse is I did the one thing I had forbidden myself from doing. And that one thing will always prevent me for forgiving myself.

 

"I said what I meant, and I meant what I said"

[Grim_]

That's why I asked you to homebrew a less broken and tailored version of VOP instead of what was written.

 

Indeed, my intention was not to play a virtuous and ascetic "monk" like character, but merely to remove myself from the arguments on loot. (Which I later found out from you, that it would not do)

 

 

 

 

But that doesn't really matter now, considering I won't be playing, but just wanted to clarify.

Retech, stay, there's no reason for you not to play. I doubt I would be able to make all of the sessions due to me having way too many advanced classes (and teachers who's goal is to make 10% of the class drop in certain cases).

[archimage_a]

What is odd, I found, about the Vow of Poverty is that it is less of a feat, more of a seperate class.

 

You have to give up all your material goods except for a simple weapon and another item up to 100gp in value.

At 1st level you get +4 AC which increases by 1 at every level divisible by 3

You get a bonus feat every other level

Permenant endure elements at 3rd level

You get a magical enchantment bonus to all weapons you hold at 4th, 10th, 14th, 17th, and 20th level

No longer have to eat or drink at 5th level

Every level divisible by 6 gives you +1 deflection to the AC;

7th 13th and 17th level gives +1 on all saving throws;

7th level you get +2 to an ability score, 11th gives you +2 to another score, and +2 to same one as the 7th level, 15th gives +2 to the previous 2 and another, 19th gives +2 to the previous 3 and yet another

Every level divisible by 8 gives +1 natural armor

At 8th level you become immune to several mindreading spells

At 10th 15th and 19th levels you get damage resistance of varying types

No longer breath at 12th level

13th and 20th level give you blanket resistance to all damage elements

14th level gives constant freedom of movement

17th level gives a level based Regen ability

18th level you get a constant trueseeing ability

 

I think it could potentially be balanced if you only got the bonuses if you took the levels in Vow of Poverty, if you took levels in normal classes then you just got normal levels in that class.

 

Since the main problem with it is you take 2 feats(I believe it has a prequisite) and then get a free ride for the rest of the game (in exchange for only owning 2 items...Which isn't really that much of a problem for most classes(Armour, you get +4 to AC when you start, equal to light armour, and increases to a max of 9 at level 18. Weapons you get free Magic Weapons at level 4 and above, and most weapons cost less than 100 gp, you don't need food or water...or air at higher levels. True you can't carry money or anything, but do you need any? What services would you need to buy?))

 

 

Would probably be up to the player and mod to hammer out a proper agreement though.

 

 

1st Addendum:

Add 1 Non-Vow (Monk/Rogue/Other) class level worth of abilities every 3 levels of Vow, starting at the 3rd level.

 

You gain everything you would normally gain, except the extra level and Hit Die. (Termed "Class Level Worth of Ability")

Level 3 is still Level 3.

 

2nd Addendum:

Vows that are, knowingly* broken enrage the chosen Diety and the GM may either be (a) Altered, or (b)permenantly switched out, or © forgive the player.

 

(a) The use of Vow Abilities may turned off and on at will, by the GM.

Individual Vow Abilites, and their inverses*, irregardless of level, may be added or removed once per hour, by the GM.

 

*

[hide]

Up to -10 AC

Up to -10 HP lost per round/hour to 1 HP.

Any person who is indifferent or lower may gain Magical Enhancements to their weapons and/or armour.

Gain Exausted or Helpless or blinded, or any other conditional modifer, up to 5.

When opponants make ranged attacks treat they gain up to +5 to hit you, and ignore concelment.

Up to -5 on all saving rolls

Ability scores may be reduced to 1

You are under Zone of Truth Spell

You may be hit by any spell. Spell effects may be tailored and cannot reduce your HP below 1, nor ability levels below 1, or have death effects. Teleportation spells may also not be used.

You may gain weakness to energy types up to -10.

You may become a waterbreather.

You may be slowed to 5ft per turn.

You may lose the use of any feat, but all class abilities, including class abilities that give access to feats, must be left intact.

You may lose up to 500 xp per day.

 

Inverses may not directly kill you, though can kill you through other events. For instance being turned into a waterbreather in the middle of a desert, or gaining helpless mid flight.

 

GMs are reminded to remain true to the chosen Diety's style, though powers are entirely disgressionary.

[/hide]

 

(b) All Vow class levels are transformed half into GM chosen level, half into player chosen levels, with the player choosing the odd numbered levels.

All Class Levels worth of abilities are lost.

Players may choose to reinvest levels in Vow, but must choose a different Diety to follow.

 

Transformation ends the Vow entirely.

 

*Players must be warned if they are knowingly breaking their vow. If they ignore the warning and break the vow the GM is free remove/alter the levels at will. It does not have to be instantous, but should fit the player's Diety's style.

Players may seek atonement at the GM's disgression, based on the Diety.

 

3rd Addendum:

If you already have one level of Poverty Vow, every 3 levels of Non-Vow, starting at level 3 Non-Vow, you gain 1 class level worth of abilities in Vow.

 

As above:

You gain everything you would normally gain, except the extra level and Hit Die.

Level 3 is still Level 3.

 

 

4th Addendum:

Alignment: Any lawful

Hit Die: d8

Starting Wealth: 150 gp

Skill Ranks per Level: 0 + Int modifier.

 

Class Skills: None

 

Base Attack Bonus of +1 per level, including level 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18.

 

5th Addendum:

Money not spent by the start(1 Coin (Copper/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Other) may be retained IF only a simple weapon is obtained. Coin's Value may not exceed 100 gp) or acquired through the course of the game cannot be given to just anyone, PC or NPC, it must be donated to your Diety's Recognised Charity, or Recognised Church.

Player controlled Diety Recognised Churches/Charities may use the money at will, at the GM's disgression.

 

Willingly participating in, conspiring to cause or having knowledge pertaining to and not attempting to stop, any theft from charity is counted as breaking your vow, at the GM's disgression.

 

Forgiving, accepting or tolerating someone for stealing from your Diety's Charity/Church is counted as suspending the vow (Temporary loss of all Vow class levels and Vow/Non-Vow class levels worth abilities. Non-Vow Class levels are not affected.). The Vow may be restored when the person returns the money, or is brought to justice is a manner satisfying to your deity(At the disgression of the GM). Or the Diety forgives the player.

 

6th Addendum:

Clothes that confer no bonuses may be carried without breaking the vow. This includes circumstance bonuses.

GM ordained "Quest Items" may also be carried without penalty.

 

7th Addendum:

If an item is, unknowningly or unwillingly*, in your possession for more than an hour, it must be donated to charity/church, or destroyed if dangerous, when it is discovered. This must be completed in d6+1 days of discovery or the Vow is suspended (Temporary loss of all Vow class levels and Vow/Non-Vow class levels worth abilities. Non-Vow Class levels are not affected.)

 

*An unappraised item worth more than 100 gp. An item that was placed there by someone without your knowledge. An item you have swallowed accidently. An arrow that cannot be removed within an hour.

Subject to the GMs disgression.

 

9th Addendum:

For the purposes of clarity. There are four types of Diety responce, ranked in serverity:

 

Transformation: Levels are transformed into equal levels in other classes. Choice of said classes is split between the GM and Player, with the Player choosing odd levels.

 

Alter: Abilities may be turned on and off at will, and negative abilities (Inverses) may be given at a rate of once per hour. The nature of the Inverse is disgressionarily decided by the GM, based on the Diety Chosen.

 

Temporarily Remove Gift: All Vow related abilities and levels are temporarily removed. No Inverses are used.

 

Forgive: The breaking of the Vow is justifed in the Diety's mind and no action is taken.

[Vixion]

I know that you guys are most likely having a very in-depth and meaningful conversation that I probably wouldn't understand/care about in my lifetime so I'm going to say something that none of you care about.

 

My Latest OTP:

Hannibal/Clarice. .u.

[Retech]

Retech, stay, there's no reason for you not to play. I doubt I would be able to make all of the sessions due to me having way too many advanced classes (and teachers who's goal is to make 10% of the class drop in certain cases).

 

I've just found that in terms of Pathfinder, I don't fit with the tavern that well.

 

Best of luck

[Leiana]

Has anyone ever made a mistake so big that they know they'll never forgive themselves for it?