Avatar: The Legend of Korra

[nine naked men]

the answer to the first (i think) is that the lion turtle bending was only temporary, all of the forms and disciplines (you saw how bad the dudes that tried to fight Wan were at firebending) were learned from the animals permanently.

 

the second is pretty much unanswered. just other earth/air/water/fire turtles? subdivisions like metal, plant, lightning bending? completely new elements that were lost? it is a mystery

[Sy_Accursed]

On the second we don't know with any certainty what power each given turtle did or did not have, it could of been a case that each just had a specific favouratism.

Equally I don't think 'why 12 with only 4 powers' is really a valid point - the turtles purpose was not this great power it was to give a home to humans whilst the wilds were ravaged by spirits.

 

Plus in terms of who had what we know of at least 5 distinct turtles:

The four that gave Wan the four elements plus the one who Aang saw about energy bending.

 

I don't think the subdivisions of bending would necessarily have specific turtles I mean bloodbending and metalbending are both discovered during Aangs lifetime by humans. It is however feasible 1 turtle per power, after all we have 7 unknowns left with 6 known specialised bendings:

lightning, blood, plant, metal, sand, healing

 

And we have been told to expect to see an air specialised bending at some point by the show makers which would make a round 7

[nine naked men]

nah, the one that gave aang energy-bending was the one that gave wan firebending.

 

but yeah that's definitely also a possibility, lion turtles were giving out bending so humans could survive in the wilderness, so maybe people living on other turtles lived in harmony w/the spirits around them like the airbenders did.

[Tesset]

The way I interpreted it was that the lion turtles gave the humans bending (the way they did with Wan) and then the animals with the corresponding bending taught them mastery, control, and finesse.

 

But where did the 12 lion turtles come from? I don't ever remember hearing about more than the 4 or 5.

nah, the one that gave aang energy-bending was the one that gave wan firebending.

Where did you get that from? Like, afaik, no where has that been said or even implied.

[Sy_Accursed]

The way I interpreted it was that the lion turtles gave the humans bending (the way they did with Wan) and then the animals with the corresponding bending taught them mastery, control, and finesse.

 

It's a nice idea, but it kinda entirely contradicts the facts we know imo.

 

Namely the story about the origin of Earthbending where the guys who learnt it from the Badgermoles were the first earthbenders. If people were already bending they wouldn't have been the first. Equally we have accounts (though less detailed) of bending specifically being learnt from the dragons and the two spirits for waterbenders, all of which leave little ambiguity for it to be a case of 'they weren't benders because they were bad it it, these entities just made them good.'

 

Plus it raises a few other contradictory issues firstly the turtles were only giving humans these powers to survive the spirit wilds and they returned the powers when they returned to civilisation. The spirits were heading back to the spirit world and the danger gone, hence the turtles evicting humans back to living on the land so in what context would they have given the powers out? The reason they did before is gone.

 

Plus if they turtles did hand out powers to everyone as they left then how do you explain non-benders existing and counting for the majority of the population? Afterall everything we've been shown of the world benders have always been a small portion of the populace, even more so moving into Korra timeline. Sure genetic mutation might play a part, but such things usually lead to survival of the fittest which would be the benders in this case which would infer they should vastly outnumber ordinary people if everyone had bending when they left the turtles.

 

Just seems like it'd require so much retconning of pre-existing stories and extra explanation to work around the facts we already have that it seems unlikely to me and not really worth using as a view of how things happened until such a time as there is something a bit more solid to support it opposed to filling in an ambiguous area of the history with an idea that contradicts the known facts.

[nine naked men]

The way I interpreted it was that the lion turtles gave the humans bending (the way they did with Wan) and then the animals with the corresponding bending taught them mastery, control, and finesse.

 

But where did the 12 lion turtles come from? I don't ever remember hearing about more than the 4 or 5.

nah, the one that gave aang energy-bending was the one that gave wan firebending.

Where did you get that from? Like, afaik, no where has that been said or even implied.

 

http://imgur.com/a/OGaCq

 

also, apparently a bunch of stuff was probably forgotten between wan's time and aang's time, it could be one of those things. i guess how important you view it depends on how much you value continuity in a story. if ignoring stuff from atla was necessary to make the 2-parter so good i'm okay with it.

[Tesset]

Edit: ^ Oh! They have the same markings on their foreheads. Okay, that's pretty cool actually. I would have never picked up on that.

 

imo

Therein lies the problem. It's all up to interpretation atm, because these two pieces of canon contradict each other rather badly.

 

I mean, if the badger mole story is true and the story of Avatar Wan is true, then we have a contradiction unless the city of Omashu came before Avatar Wan. Otherwise, Avatar Wan would have been the first earthbender, not Oma and Shu.

 

But if Omashu came first, then why was that city fine without a lion turtle, and why did the lion turtles have to give or take bending since people could learn it anyway?

 

So, I mean...

[Sy_Accursed]

They don't contradict each other really, unless you go out of your way to take them as such.

 

The avatars have always been defined by their hereditary bending - Aang was an airbender who was the avatar, Korra is a waterbender who is the avatar. By that measurement Wan would not be considered a bender of any description, simply the avatar. Or if you interpret it as they being defined by their original bending he'd be a firebender, not an earthbender.

Plus the fact of context -  the people learnt bending from the animals, but the Avatar is not one of 'the people' it is a special separate entity part human part spirit that simply resides in a host each lifetime. Even in the context of 'the people' being the specific tribe from which the story originates it still makes sense as none of them would particularly view Wan as part of their people if he's travelling around trying to be neutral and separate to bring peace.

 

Of course it can be interpreted as contradictory if you so wish, but there are plenty of ways for the two to co-exist within the facts we have without contradicting each other.

[Alg]

I mean, if the badger mole story is true and the story of Avatar Wan is true, then we have a contradiction unless the city of Omashu came before Avatar Wan. Otherwise, Avatar Wan would have been the first earthbender, not Oma and Shu.

You could also simply look at it as a legend: the truth behind it warped into the version they know of today after thousands of years. So you get something like "Lion-turtles gave the power of earthbending, but the form that's used today was adapted from the style used by badger-moles" becoming "the first earthbenders learned from the badger-moles" and eventually "badger-moles taught the first earthbenders" as the details were lost over time.

 

So it's less a contradiction and more that the characters telling the story are repeating local myths. Korra is probably the only human that knows the true version of it, and only because she (re)lived it.

 

If it's intentional, it's a brilliant way to add depth to the setting: each culture gets its own mythology to go with the greater lore behind everything. If it's not, it's the best kind of serendipity. Maybe it's just me, but the idea that a legend evolved over ten thousand years is one of those things that makes the world a bit more believable, and it fits the theme of change.

[Tesset]

http://korranation.tumblr.com/post/67056426031/heres-our-big-news-straight-from-janet-varney

 

Korra Nation was doing a promo event where if this tumblr post got 10k notes, they would put up the 2 finale episodes on Nick.com tonight at midnight. It did, so there's the two episodes today at 8/7, and then the two finale episodes tonight at midnight.

[Veiva]

http://korranation.tumblr.com/post/67056426031/heres-our-big-news-straight-from-janet-varney

 

Korra Nation was doing a promo event where if this tumblr post got 10k notes, they would put up the 2 finale episodes on Nick.com tonight at midnight. It did, so there's the two episodes today at 8/7, and then the two finale episodes tonight at midnight.

Woah. I hope the first two episodes are released speedily enough on... that place... you use... on the net... as a forum and mailing list.

 

SICKBEARD I DEPEND ON YOU. DON'T FAIL ME.

[Tesset]

 

http://korranation.tumblr.com/post/67056426031/heres-our-big-news-straight-from-janet-varney

 

Korra Nation was doing a promo event where if this tumblr post got 10k notes, they would put up the 2 finale episodes on Nick.com tonight at midnight. It did, so there's the two episodes today at 8/7, and then the two finale episodes tonight at midnight.

Woah. I hope the first two episodes are released speedily enough on... that place... you use... on the net... as a forum and mailing list.

 

SICKBEARD I DEPEND ON YOU. DON'T FAIL ME.

 

I'm about 99% sure the episodes go up on Nick.com on Friday after they air, or at least on Saturday, every week. This week they should definitely be up in time, I would assume.

[Veiva]

 

 

http://korranation.tumblr.com/post/67056426031/heres-our-big-news-straight-from-janet-varney

 

Korra Nation was doing a promo event where if this tumblr post got 10k notes, they would put up the 2 finale episodes on Nick.com tonight at midnight. It did, so there's the two episodes today at 8/7, and then the two finale episodes tonight at midnight.

Woah. I hope the first two episodes are released speedily enough on... that place... you use... on the net... as a forum and mailing list.

 

SICKBEARD I DEPEND ON YOU. DON'T FAIL ME.

 

I'm about 99% sure the episodes go up on Nick.com on Friday after they air, or at least on Saturday, every week. This week they should definitely be up in time, I would assume.

 

That works as well.

[Dax]

SO YEAH. FINALE WAS AMAZINGLY AWESOME AND PERFECT AND I LOVED IT.

 

Did everyone else?

[Kirschen]

*Did not know of the final 2 episode thing until I woke up*

 

... Well, [bleep].

[Kimberly]

Well I forget who it was, but they deserve a lot of credit for guessing the twist.

 

 

 

I wasn't expecting the portals left open, or that her link with her past lives couldn't be restored. That was sort of sad ;_; But it's no wonder now why this series was so grandly named, she's just changed the world.

 

 

I wonder when we'll get any information on book 3.

[Sy_Accursed]

Personally:

 

 

 

I doubt the connection with the past lives will be gone forever despite what Korra thinks. I think it will take time to come back, perhaps longer than Korra's lifespan, but I think in time it will definitely return. I suspect the tree of memories and the spirits will be linked in to it in some respect and that it'll grow in reverse so Wann would be the last memories to return. In essence I don't know if we'd ever even see it in the TV shows/comics etc; that entirely depends on if/when we get further sagas post-Korra (personally I'd like to see at least 2 more for a full set as it were, but only if they have the story to do it) but I think in the grand scheme of the lore it will come back.

 

 

As for book 3:

 

 

Should be interesting, I'm guessing it'll have a lot to do with finding the balance between spirits and man and man regaining some lost spirituality. After all we saw the demise of much of spirituality in Aang's time - Fire Lord's conquest kinda of trampled most fire nation spirituality. Ba Sing Sae seemed more industry focused than spiritual and when it was conquered much could've been feasibly lost. Of course airbender spirituality was all but lost with them being wiped out, they are now the most spiritual group about but still a lot must've been lost that spirits could show them. As for water tribes we've seen between the two shows the south had no benders left (but Katara) and has lost its spiritual way and we could argue that the north has probably gone rather off track given Unalaq's goals.

 

Further to this I think fire kingdom is a likely place to sort of be the nexus of the book. With Aang we saw all 4 air temples in the end if memory serves and they have been duplicated over in Korra. With Aang we also saw Ba Sing Sae, lots of earth kingdom places and a good chunk of the Northern water tribe. Korra has shown us a lot of Republic City and  now the Southern water tribe - only place we haven't really explored in-depth at this point is the fire nation.

However I could easily seeing it have an earth-centric focus too because the first two korra books indirectly have kind of maintained the Aang books elemental lines.

Aang had book 1 Water and then proceeded through earth and fire books with each focussing on that bending in particular.

Korra book 1 was Air literally and then book 2 though titled spirits has seen quite a large focus on water nations and water bending. Following this pattern, regardless of title, earth would be the next port of call.

 

[Kirschen]

Which twist, Kimberly? I think I was one of the first few who theorized Unalaq's plans to invoke a fusion like Wan and Raava did if it was that twist you were referring to.

[Alg]

That brings up an interesting question.

 

 

 

Does the 'Dark Avatar' reincarnate?

 

 

[Sy_Accursed]

That brings up an interesting question.

 

 

 

Does the 'Dark Avatar' reincarnate?

 

 

 

 

 

If we assume the same rules apply to both, despite dark lacking 3/4 bending. Then logically he would BUT Avatar 101 states if the avatar is killed in the avatar state the line is broken and they won't reincarnate. Given the glowing eyes uber-spirit form Unalaq took on I'd assume he'd be classed as being in the avatar state (since letting the spirit out a bit seems to be the basis of avatar state hence red eyes vs white eyes for the spirit colours) so by that measure logic would dictate that whilst the spirit will be reformed there won't be a new dark avatar born.

 

[nine naked men]

it would suck having unalaq, killjoy extraordinaire in yr head while growing up. the reincarnation thing could really go either way, though i think i'd like to see the reincarnation thing happen. it wouldn't even have to be a dark avatar, just a different one.

 

i'm glad they had the guts to make large changes to the setting/story (keeping the portal open, erasing the previous avatars). there are some things i'm sure i don't like if i think about them, but until then, the fights were cool, the animation was cool, some of the characters moments were cool (i hope they're finally over korra and mako) and i'm looking forward to book 3. they have a lot of ways they can take it, and i'm hoping for a smaller scale plot, because you can't really top 10000 years of darkness apocalypse. if they do go down the road of having korra reconnect with the past avatars, maybe do some assassin's creed shit where she witnesses their lives. the writers (lately) seem to do better writing small contained stories instead of season spanning stuff (see wan's 2-parter vs the varrick plot, the civil war, etc).

 

i still didn't like how lin was handled this book, and that the detectives, bafflingly enough, turned out to be actually that stupid instead of corrupt. also it's really funny to me how little asami did in the finale. i don't think she even got a line.

 

also they've come a long way from "did jet just die?" "it was really unclear."

 

we didn't see that advanced airbending, either.

[Veiva]

 

we didn't see that advanced airbending, either.

 

[hide]At first, I thought it was Jinora's light-thing (light bending? LASERS?!?!?) she did at the end to Vatunalaq. But then I remembered she was still in the spirit world so that idea died a sudden death.[/hide]

[Kimberly]

[hide]I thought for certain that Jinora would die to help Rava manifest once more or something.

 

I still don't fully understand where Rava went after it was destroyed temporarily.[/hide]

[Sy_Accursed]

[hide]I thought for certain that Jinora would die to help Rava manifest once more or something.

 

I still don't fully understand where Rava went after it was destroyed temporarily.[/hide]

 

 

 

The idea they were trying to setup (as far as I can see) is that at Harmonic convergence every 10k years 3 outcomes can happen:

1) Raava and Vaatu are equal and just go forth to battle again

2) Raava destroys Vaatu resulting in 10k years of good and light.

3) The inverse of above.

 

The 'destruction' can be an imprisonment (as we saw with Vaatu) or a literal destruction, BUT Light and Dark and symbiotic in nature.

Light is only light because it contrasts the darkness.

Darkness can only exist with light to cast shadows and create it.

Therefore if Vaatu or Raava is destroyed they become a tiny seed, as it were, inside of the other one that will slowly grow and emerge in time for the next Harmonic convergence. Kinda playing on the Ying and Yang concept (A little yang in the ying and vice versa). This is shown by the size dynamics (as Vaatu grew Raava shrunk) and Raava was a seed of light within Vaatu after being destroyed.

 

 

[Alg]