Avatar: The Legend of Korra

[Kirschen]

Raava and Vaatu. Why do those two names sound so familiar?

 

The Sting, while a shocking episode, really didn't impress me as much as The Beginnings. Seeing how the Avatar is able to bend all four elements was nice but too me awhile to realize that while the Lion Turtles gave them bending abilities, I forgot it was the Dragons/Sky Bison/Moon/Badger Moles who taught them how to do it properly. Granted, it brings up a lot of holes like the Omashu incident.

 

Also, is it just me, or does Wan have Mako's face with Sokka's horrible luck.

[Sy_Accursed]

I don't think this story has to be seen as a  contradiction to the Omashu legend to do with the badger moles and the first earth benders.

 

The Lion Turtles were giving people their power when they went out to hunt in order to protect them from the spirits and they gave the power back when they returned. When the Lion Turtles decided they did not need to protect humans any more as spirits were leaving they would not have to give them the powers and certainly we weren't shown this happening.

 

Yes by the end of the Wan's lifetime people did seem to be bending once more, but the Legend of Omashu could've easily happened in the intervening time, as could other towns and tribes rediscovering the power to bend from these specific species that had the ability. I mean we know from Wan's training montage there was a dragon around the area the fire Lion Turtle had been. It wouldn't be a huge leap to assume the Air Nomads came upon Sky Bisons in this time and that the Ocean and Moon spirits having remaining in the human world as koi fish were discovered quite quickly by the Water tribes.

 

Definitely loved this episode was nice to see the origin of the avatar and the fact that he was not perfect and he had his floors.

I hope in time we get to see more past avatars. I mean obviously we know a fair bit about the recent lineage (Korra, Aang, Roku, Kyoshi, Kuruk and Yangchen)

But that only takes us from Present (ASC) - 345 BSC then leaving a gaping hole til Wan in 9829 BSC. I mean we have seen the firebender who came before Yangchen, but he wasn't even given a name.

There doesn't even have to be a huge amount of them strictly speaking given the ages we do have

Aang did 12 BSC - 153 ASC aka 165 years.

Roku did 82 - 12 BSC for 70 years.

Kyoshi did 312 - 82 BSC aka 230 years.

Kuruk did 345 - 321 BSC only 24 years.

 

Certainly precedent there for avatars having long lives I mean Roku only died due to poison gases, Kuruk is implied to of killed himself rather than face killing Koh who had taken his love Ummi's face. Kyoshi meanwhile died of old age, as did Aang and one could theorise Aang died 'young' for an avatar as, especially in body when you account for the time he was frozen, he did not have the avatar power until quite late on. Afterall he was only 12 and had just been told about being the Avatar when he was then frozen for a hundred years meaning despite dying at 165 he was biologically only really 65 and only really began to become the avatar properly at 112 in chronological terms.

 

From that we can assume the ballpark lifespan of a non-killed, non-hindered avatar is around 200-250 years, which only needs 4-5 per 1000 years which is only 36-45 avatars required to fill out between Wan and Kuruk.

[Tesset]

It's been stated that there have been thousands of Avatars, I'm pretty sure. I mean, the Avatar always sits at the center of strife and war in the world, trying to keep balance, so how likely is it that they get to live long, peaceful lives? Non-killed, non-hindered Avatars have got to be the exception, not the norm.

 

Even if there are just a few, though, that seems like pretty superfluous information. Maybe it coulnd be well served as an extra thing, on like a site for fans or whatever. Seems like they would rather keep the information so they had it for use later if they ever needed it.

[Kirschen]

You know, we now are aware of how the Avatar can bend all four elements so what is stopping the possibility of the Vaatu possessing someone like Unalaq (possible candidate) and try invoking a "dark avatar" sort of thing? Sure, he will likely either mutate and/or kill Unalaq before being resealed or get sealed along with him, but it still leaves interesting possibilities of a battle at the end.

 

Still weird we're already halfway in Book 2 so far. It's going by fast.

[nine naked men]

it's bizarre the massive jump in quality those two episodes had compared to the rest of the season in p. much every aspect. will probably end up being the high point of the season, i guess it's okay we had to trade an amnesia subplot for it.

[Tesset]

You know, we now are aware of how the Avatar can bend all four elements so what is stopping the possibility of the Vaatu possessing someone like Unalaq (possible candidate) and try invoking a "dark avatar" sort of thing? Sure, he will likely either mutate and/or kill Unalaq before being resealed or get sealed along with him, but it still leaves interesting possibilities of a battle at the end.

 

Still weird we're already halfway in Book 2 so far. It's going by fast.

I would not at all be surprised if that's what happened. It would be pretty fitting. They could make it a multi-season villain, too, though I think they've said the plotlines for each season are going to be different.

 

it's bizarre the massive jump in quality those two episodes had compared to the rest of the season in p. much every aspect. will probably end up being the high point of the season, i guess it's okay we had to trade an amnesia subplot for it.

My theory is that it's because there was no Korra in it. Also none of the other annoying characters who are getting angry over nothing at all, and the villain is actually villainous, and not just someone who we're told is evil, but may have had legitimate points if they didn't have such over the top reactions. But mostly the no Korra thing.

[Kirschen]

There is also the bonus points in that it focuses on something crucial to the Avatar's existence and origins rather than hinting at ships or something in middle of a sideplot. Unalaq was too obvious to make the reveal shocking and Varrick,  as surprising as he was, isn't a huge threat on the grand scale since he is just being another shrewd businessman. Vauutu provided that nice bit as a villain that the others couldn't quite fufill.

 

Oh, I am still surprised they added some Greek Mythological references to the episodes, like how one can compare Wan to Prometheus since he stole fire to give to the lower beings. Speaking of Vaatu, I feel like I learned of his name along with Raava's from Hindu-based mythology for some reason.

[nine naked men]

You know, we now are aware of how the Avatar can bend all four elements so what is stopping the possibility of the Vaatu possessing someone like Unalaq (possible candidate) and try invoking a "dark avatar" sort of thing? Sure, he will likely either mutate and/or kill Unalaq before being resealed or get sealed along with him, but it still leaves interesting possibilities of a battle at the end.

 

Still weird we're already halfway in Book 2 so far. It's going by fast.

if korra becomes darth korra that would be a good actual villain and would also make my day

 

e - misquote oops

[Sy_Accursed]

It's been stated that there have been thousands of Avatars, I'm pretty sure. I mean, the Avatar always sits at the center of strife and war in the world, trying to keep balance, so how likely is it that they get to live long, peaceful lives? Non-killed, non-hindered Avatars have got to be the exception, not the norm.

 

Even if there are just a few, though, that seems like pretty superfluous information. Maybe it coulnd be well served as an extra thing, on like a site for fans or whatever. Seems like they would rather keep the information so they had it for use later if they ever needed it.

 

 

I by no means meant just episode after episode of different Avatars, just that in time it'd be nice if we get to see a few more of the old ones rather than continually seeing the most recent 4. Though a additional e-book or something that documented them all at least briefly would be cool.

 

Also I know we have been told there are lots I was just saying strictly speaking there does not have to be all that many to fill out the 9000 years gap given the lifespans we are aware of. I think the thousands is an exaggeration given what we now know though: With only ~9000 years unaccounted for there can't of been thousands of avatars unless an awful lot of them died between 1 and 9 years old. I mean 100 living to 90 would fill that gap, so realistically I doubt it's more than ~200 allowing for some to die quite young and others to live to old age.

[Tesset]

This may have been the first episode ever that I wasn't incredibly annoyed with Korra. I'm very happy about this.

[Kirschen]

I cannot tell if you were referring to Beginnings or the newest episode there. Should I just assume the former?

 

On the subject of the new episode, I like where it is going with focusing on the actual plot instead of the b-plot since it's done some progress for Korra and given us some insight on the Avatar itself. I personally believe this season will continually improve just so long as it focuses mostly on what is happening with Korra trying to solve the actual threat instead of the corrupt executive pulling everybody's strings.

 

You know, Unalaq's behavior to his son getting knocked out was rather... disturbing. He is so focused on power he doesn't give two damns when one of his kids suffers a serious injury in front of him. Makes me wonder how things were like under his rule at the Northern Tribe.

[Tesset]

The newest episode. Korra wasn't really in Beginnings.

 

I just... Korra frustrates me as a character a lot, all the time, and I've been [bleep]ing about it to my irl friend all this season, so this was a nice change of pace.

 

 

Let's be fair though, the b-plots were way more interesting than the main plot at the beginning of book 2. I was 100% more invested in the romantic stuff between Bolin and Eska than I was with the civil war and Korra's spiritual training, just because the romantic stuff was actually entertaining to watch because it was funny, whereas the main plot just felt (and still feels) unreal and over the top.

[Kimberly]

You know, we now are aware of how the Avatar can bend all four elements so what is stopping the possibility of the Vaatu possessing someone like Unalaq (possible candidate) and try invoking a "dark avatar" sort of thing? Sure, he will likely either mutate and/or kill Unalaq before being resealed or get sealed along with him, but it still leaves interesting possibilities of a battle at the end.

 

Still weird we're already halfway in Book 2 so far. It's going by fast.

The ability to bend all the elements didn't come from Rava. Those powers were unlocked by the elemental lion turtles. Rava, and Vaatu, would just be the means with which they can bend all four at the same time. Unalaq could still be possessed, but I think it's unlikely that you'll see a "dark avatar showdown."

 

They've got a lot to wrap up in one episode. I really hope that it's an extended one, or we're going to have a miserable cliffhanger until book 3.

[Tesset]

There's four more episodes this season. One each week in November, with two the final week as the season finale.

 

What could happen is that a modern spirit bender (Korra) could give Unalaq all four elements, and then Vaatu could help control them. That would make it way more likely that he was a multi-season villian too.

 

I want to know what the popular opinion is of the movers and Nuktak, actually. That's something they haven't explored yet.

[Sy_Accursed]

There's four more episodes this season. One each week in November, with two the final week as the season finale.

 

What could happen is that a modern spirit bender (Korra) could give Unalaq all four elements, and then Vaatu could help control them. That would make it way more likely that he was a multi-season villian too.

 

I want to know what the popular opinion is of the movers and Nuktak, actually. That's something they haven't explored yet.

 

I don't see on what level of story telling or plot twist they could ever reach a point where Korra is giving all 4 bending powers to some guy she clearly hates and views as evil to create an evil avatar of sorts.

 

Heck we don't even know if it's possible that she can do it. Yes avatars have used spirit bending to take peoples bending and give it back, but we've never seen them give them a bending power they never had and the Beginings episodes showed the avatar only got all four through the power of the Lion Turtles.

 

I could see Unalaq being possessed by Vaatu to avoid being re-sealed and then Unalaq coming back in book 3 or 4 having gone to study other bending powers and managing more powers through Vaatu's presence - but I just can't see Korra give it to him, she has no reason to and we do not know she even can do that and even if that plot did somehow play out do you really expect it to be some epic battle? Korra, Aang and everyone before spent years, or at least months training to even be able to use other bending powers slightly, let alone mastering them.

If that plot line did unfold Korra is already years of study ahead of where Unualaq would be in air, earth and fire bending.

[Tesset]

 

There's four more episodes this season. One each week in November, with two the final week as the season finale.

 

What could happen is that a modern spirit bender (Korra) could give Unalaq all four elements, and then Vaatu could help control them. That would make it way more likely that he was a multi-season villian too.

 

I want to know what the popular opinion is of the movers and Nuktak, actually. That's something they haven't explored yet.

 

I don't see on what level of story telling or plot twist they could ever reach a point where Korra is giving all 4 bending powers to some guy she clearly hates and views as evil to create an evil avatar of sorts.

 

Heck we don't even know if it's possible that she can do it. Yes avatars have used spirit bending to take peoples bending and give it back, but we've never seen them give them a bending power they never had and the Beginings episodes showed the avatar only got all four through the power of the Lion Turtles.

 

I could see Unalaq being possessed by Vaatu to avoid being re-sealed and then Unalaq coming back in book 3 or 4 having gone to study other bending powers and managing more powers through Vaatu's presence - but I just can't see Korra give it to him, she has no reason to and we do not know she even can do that and even if that plot did somehow play out do you really expect it to be some epic battle? Korra, Aang and everyone before spent years, or at least months training to even be able to use other bending powers slightly, let alone mastering them.

If that plot line did unfold Korra is already years of study ahead of where Unualaq would be in air, earth and fire bending.

 

Humans don't naturally have bending anyway. It's only through the lion turtles/energybending (and later genetics) that they got any form of bending - what does it matter if they ever had a particular form of bending? They can be given any type, as long as they only have one at a time. I mean, something pretty similar happened with Korra and Aang - Aang gave her energy bending despite the fact that, genetically, she had no predisposition for it. I don't care that she's the Avatar either - it would make far more sense for this to be the case for anyone than it would for this to be a special Avatar thing.

 

No, you're right, I can't see Korra giving other forms of bending to Unalaq. I don't think it's very likely, and if it's going to happen, I think it would happen one of two ways: Either Korra fails to seal Vaatu during this convergence and he posses someone else, who she later gives multiple forms of bending as a test of her own powers while she's learning energy bending (is that going to be what the next book is? Energy? That would be pretty cool.), or else she gives energybending to someone else who goes on to give it to Unalaq (or the other dark avatar if Vaatu doesn't get sealed).

 

I'm not saying it's likely at all, just that it's possible based on what we know of how energybending works.

 

And yes, I would expect it to be an epic showdown if for no other reason than because the plot would demand it. No matter how soon the showdown happened, the narrative would find some way to power Vaatu's possessed human up so that he was on par with Korra. It would feel wrong otherwise.

[Sy_Accursed]

Aang did not 'give' her energy bending. Energy bending is an abilities avatars have through the combination of all 4 elements in avatar mode, Aang just showed her how to access Avatar mode and thus energy bending. The Lion Turtle told Aang about it in the original series and how avatars before him had done it and showed him how to access it, everything we have been told of it so far suggests it is specifically an avatar power related to being in the avatar state. Aang showing her how to do it is no different to how Aang had meetings with the previous avatars who helped him with water earth and fire bending and the spirit world - they weren't giving him anything just showing him the way.

 

And it is not possible at all in how we know energy bending works.

We have seen energy bending do exactly 2 things:

1) Take away the fire lords bending

2) Restore the bending of those who lost it through the equalisers

 

We have not seen energy bending ever give anyone a bending power they did not have in the first place; it simply is not something we have any proof of being within the remit of energy bending.

[Tesset]

Nooo. Energy bending is a power that was given to Aang by the Lion Turtle.

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Energybending
 

The last living lion turtle kept the ability alive by escaping the lion turtle hunters and hiding. This lion turtle later passed down the ability to Avatar Aang,

After the Equalists' leader, Amon, severed Korra's bending, the spirit of Avatar Aang used energybending once again to restore her ability to bend water, earth, and fire, and passed the knowledge of energybending onto her.

The art of energybending has been imbued in past Avatars, though extremely rarely.

If he was just telling Aang about the ability, then why did the lion turtle need to use energybending on Aang? He could have just told him. No, he had to pass on the power in the same way the power of the other four elements had to be passed on originally.

[Sy_Accursed]

That is a wiki, it is not verbatim facts, it is written out by fans interpretting what they see.

The fact, as the wiki does state, that previous avatars had energy bending shows the fact that it was a power they had and existed previously within them which contradicts the idea of Aang not having it and being given it because the avatars powers are directly passed down each time.

 

It could easily be seen as the Lion Turtle simply giving Aang knowledge of how to access the power, not the actual power itself. This would fit in with Lion Turtle's as a whole since they allowed people to us bending when entering the spirit wilds and gave all 4 to the avatar BUT they are not the source humans learnt bending from. It is established that after the Lion Turtles left people did not have bending and they learnt it from the Badgermoles, Dragons, Sky Bison and the Moon and Ocean Spirits.

This directly implies no-one was ever truly given bending, it is something they either have or do not have and simply must learn, the Lion Turtles only gave them knowledge of it and with each Lion Turtle favouring one element the people of their city naturally bred a stronger affinity for that element as hunters who used it better would survive more.

 

You can even see the genetic factoring of bending in Aang and Katara's children - an airbender, a waterbender and a non-bender. Equally it is shown in Mako and Bolin brothers but one is an earthbender and one a firebender. Of course we must not forget Katara the last waterbender in the southern tribe with her grandmother Kanna, her brother Sokka, her father Hakoda and her mother Kya all being non-benders.

 

Equally a big chunk of book 1 was about how Korra had not managed to reach the avatar state - the only state in which we have seen energy bending done. When she sees Aang and reaches the avatar state yes she gets her bending back and starts energy bending but that does not mean Aang HAD to give it to her. Since there is a preexisting association between the avatar state and energy bending it more logically implies Korra could do it now because Aang helped her reach the avatar state.

 

Even if you do take the view the Turtle directly gave Aang energy bending and he directly gave it to Korra it still does not support the idea of Korra giving people other bending powers. As even with that context we only have proof of an energy bending avatar being able to give energy bending the avatars and of lion turtles being able to gift a 5th form of bending to the avatar, not of an avatar being able to use energy bending to give an elemental bending to someone who never had it.

[Tesset]

Okay, I'm going to concede for now that we don't have a clear enough example of the mechanics of energy bending to prove whether people being given bending or not. I still argue that they are, and the only people who still had bending after the lion turtles stopped giving it were people hiding in the spirit wilds, but there's no proof one way or another.

But Aang always did energy bending out of the Avatar state. That was a big point during his final battle with Ozai - he defeats him in the Avatar state, stands over about to kill, then drops out of the state and takes his bending. Same with Yakone - he uses the avatar state to break free of the blood bending, then drops out and takes his bending.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j3dT8oK7y80#t=485
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oFv4PEkBzYA#t=121

[Sy_Accursed]

We do not know of anyone outside the avatar who had bending post-lion turtles before the badgermoles etc taught them bending again.

The only group we saw go in to the wilds were the firebenders copying Wann and the evil spirits killed all of them as far as we know.

 

Admittedly it is a grey area but as we have direct lore that tells us people first learnt bending from the badgermoles, sky bison, dragons and ocean and moon spirits that is a pretty clear indication no-one had bending prior to that in the form of powers given to them by the lion turtles.

Though Aang getting energy bending does kind fit with it as the Lion Turtle tells him in the past they bent energy not elements implying the avatars powers and the powers lion turtles gave out derived from niches of bending energy whilst the general populace learnt to bend the elements opposed to the energies at a later date via the badgermoles, sky bison, dragons and spirits.

 

Also your video proofs show the exact opposite of what you are claiming.

On the Fire Lord he shut his eyes, like he does when entering avatar state, and then has the lion turtle montage to come back with glowing eyes (aka avatar state) as he energy bends.

Yakone he does come out of avatar state but then as he takes the bending away and the camera pans out his arrow and eyes light up, which shows he is in the avatar state and only dull again when he has finished.

This is again shown when Korra's eye specifically light up (avatar mode) when restore Lin's bending.

 

In all 3 cases you can explicitly and clearly see the eyes light up, a known indicate of avatar state, right as they do the energy bending. Heck for the Fire Lord there's a whole montage of Aang completely lighting up.

[Tesset]

Well, I can see we aren't going to see eye to eye on this at all, because we have different interpretations for literally everything related to energybending's mechanics. So whatever -we'll see more if and when the energy book/season happens.

 

All I'm saying, I guess, is that if a dark Avatar was going to happen, this is one way it could. Someone else brought it up anyway, all I wanted to do is give a mechanic by which it was possible, that's all.

[Veiva]

[hide]IROH! UNCLE IROH![/hide]

 

That is all.

[Kirschen]

[hide]IROH! UNCLE IROH![/hide]

 

That is all.

 

 

 

I know! I should have know better given I assumed the first people from the previous series that would visit Korra would be Aang or Roku, but not Iroh. The fact that Iroh then proceeded to do some mentoring with Korra just made his appearance the best thing in that episode for me.

 

 

[RpgGamer]

I was under the impression that earth bending was learned by watching the giant mole thinhs and fire bending from dragons. Why are thr lion turtles suddenly involved in all 4 elements? And why are there 12 of them if theres only 4 elemental powers to distribute?