Level Formula and other things.

[FooK-A-Ji]

I'm no mathematician, so I'm having a hard time just explaining myself in this post, lol.

 

I remember somebody posting a formula for calculating one's level beyond level 99.

If anybody with a mathematical mindset is interested in writing it here it would be nice, mainly just for the fun of knowing what level you are at, in accordance to the XP acquired in a specific skill.

 

To put it differently. The halfway mark to level 99 is not at level 49.5. Well it is, but only superficially speaking. The real halfway mark is at level 92, XP-wise. Since level 99 is ~13.000.000 XP and level 92 is ~6.500.000 XP.

This clearly shows that the formula in use takes your current XP into consideration, churns the numbers and spits out a new target level based on percentage.

 

 

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On a side note. This formula is one of the reasons why Runescape as a whole, is (at times) a painstakingly monotonous game. Given the fact that the higher the level you are, the bigger the gap from A (your current level) to B (the next level).

One might argue that this is the case in all games. The higher your level, the bigger the gap to be filled until the next, which is true. However, Runescape's level formula takes it to the next level (pun intended) and is, as far as I know, not in use in other MMORPG's. One of the characteristics being the seemingly random and uneven numbers that make out for a new level. For example level 10 being ~9873 XP which is determined through the formula (just a number, I'm pretty sure the XP for level 10 is something else, but I can't be assed to check) when it might as well could have been an even 9800 XP, or even 10.000 XP.

The even numbers (9800 and 10.000) are what we typically see in other games. The main reason being as follows;

 

The game developer took the easy route upon development of his/her XP system and made an XP ladder that still sticks with the core-idea of XP-ladders, that being that it is crucial for the gap to widen between levels, in accordance to ones level rising, but alternately is alot easier to understand and implement in a game. This XP system is seen typically in Text-based MUDs or other Online Text-based Role-playing Games.

Upon level-up the players XP is reset to 0 and a new XP amount is required to reach the next.

Example:

Level 1: 100 XP

Level 2: 250 XP

Level 3: 500 XP

Level 4: 1000 XP

And so on and so forth. The XP gap still widens, but the formula is simple enough to explain to a fourth-grader, coincidentally the fourth-grader is also an attractive potential consumer for the developers product ;) So an easy-to-understand formula becomes even more viable.

 

Clearly the formula is outdated. Not the math itself. But the entire concept as a whole.

Runescape itself was launched to the public in 2001 and the XP formula might have been though up by Andrew years before that. Even in 2001 there were barely any MMORPG's, so knowledge in the field of "what the general public wants" was lacking -- and even though Runescape is now a multimillion business it still bears the marks of a game designed in free-time, in the developers mothers basement. Andrew needed an XP formula so he devised one in the best way he could. The flaw being, that there were barely any people to test this system on in comparison with today's ALPHA and BETA testing where hundreds of thousands of people provide feedback and mold a game into what the majority of consumers wish for, even before the game itself hits the shelves in the stores worldwide.

There are still a number of things that weren't thought out then, but are so much the backbone of this game (The entire game evolves around XP, think about it), that altering it could ultimately kill it off entirely.

The formula is Runescapes blessing and also its curse. It is what makes the game unique among other things, but also that which has forced many a child, teenager and adult to skip school or work, just so we could grind out the extra XP. Grind being the key word.

For you have never played a game with a level grind as slow as Runescape's.

 

So anyway, I'm not sure the last part of this post is coherent and I apologise in advance if that is the case. My mind started to wander a bit when I got to thinking of other stuff, but I posted it in General Discussion instead of Help/Advice, seeing as my side-note is about twice as long as what this post was meant to be about, that being that I'd like for somebody to grind out the numbers for me and post a formula to the XP system for a game that I loved, that I just spent 20 minutes ragging on, despite ;D

 

Post here if you can help out with the first 1/3 of the post, or post if you have any thoughts on the last 2/3's of it. Being on tip.it for 11 years taught me that we can't all agree. So if you think otherwise, feel free to share your thoughts on the Runescape XP-formula and the impact it has on the game, for better or for worse.

 

I for one wouldn't trade it out for another XP-formula. But I'll be damned if I'm ever to play a (new) game with the same formula again!

Cheers.

 

[Lord Paul]

Take a read over this.

[FooK-A-Ji]

1 reply and the question is already answered, how awesome was that!? :mrgreen: :thumbup:

Tip.It is the only Runescape-related website I still frequent. I don't even go to Runescape.com as often, lol, so thanks for the link!

[Beaumonde]

As a side note to your side note: If Jagex wants to reduce the monotony, or grind, of RuneScape the better approach is to introduce higher experience rates. While the gaps between levels may seam large, their size can be decreased relatively by introducing faster ways of training, which seams to be Jagex's strategy with the introduction of higher level training methods to lots of skills as well as the recent addition of RuneSpan.

[Sy_Accursed]

As a side note to your side note: If Jagex wants to reduce the monotony, or grind, of RuneScape the better approach is to introduce higher experience rates. While the gaps between levels may seam large, their size can be decreased relatively by introducing faster ways of training, which seams to be Jagex's strategy with the introduction of higher level training methods to lots of skills as well as the recent addition of RuneSpan.

 

But look at how many kinds rant about how it 'ruins' skills that they can be done quicker and that they are more afkable so you can talk and stuff rather than click like a mad man.

 

I'm all for these more afk things with nicer xp curves etc. etc. though! Devblogs etc seem to suggest new skill content now considers the xp curve of a skill to make a smoother progression compared to previous things sort of being plonked in at random amounts.

[Quyneax]

Personally I'd like something to make the lower levels more useful/commonly used. A much slower increase in xp per level and about 10k more xp per level combined with fine-tuned xp rates would make a better game, I think (ignoring any conversion problems :P).

 

Then again, Jagex isn't able to fine-tune xp rates as is, so yeah.

[PolarBearBlue]

*Looks at integral, takes off glasses, jumps out the window*

 

But seriously, this is kinda cool. Might be useful in my quest to make a small RPG like game.

[Ren]

Jus' saying, Diablo 2 had much more [bleep]ed up level-xp ratios. I think 97 was halfway to 99, and 99 was like 3.7B xp..

[Bxpprod]

As a side note to your side note: If Jagex wants to reduce the monotony, or grind, of RuneScape the better approach is to introduce higher experience rates. While the gaps between levels may seam large, their size can be decreased relatively by introducing faster ways of training, which seams to be Jagex's strategy with the introduction of higher level training methods to lots of skills as well as the recent addition of RuneSpan.

 

I think there was an argument for this as a means of eliminating a certain 'type' of botter. Some people utilising autoers were doing so merely to avoid the grind (which seems stupid to me, why "play" the game at all if you aren't actually going to play). So by having activities such as Runespan which have increased xp rates over the standard training and are less attention intensive, some of those peope may be dissuaded from botting. I understand the "ruining the game" argument for some, but if you want to play the old way, go for it, it doesn't have to change how 'you' (not you personally, just a general comment) play the game.

 

Meh.

[Arcley]

I understand the "ruining the game" argument for some, but if you want to play the old way, go for it, it doesn't have to change how 'you' (not you personally, just a general comment) play the game.

You could use that argument to justify every bad change to the game ever, including things like Squeal of Fortune. Just saying'.

 

If this was a single player game you might have a point. In a MMO you can't ignore the interactions players have with each other. 'don't change how you play the game' like you said, and you'll fall quickly behind everyone else and spend twice as long to achieve the same things. Where's the fun in that?

 

(note: a lot of updates that make the game easier are /fine/, nobody wants useless new content, right? Arguably in several cases they went way overboard though *cough* 2x faster afkable rc *cough*. But I don't think that's a debate for this topic)

[PolarBearBlue]

I understand the "ruining the game" argument for some, but if you want to play the old way, go for it, it doesn't have to change how 'you' (not you personally, just a general comment) play the game.

You could use that argument to justify every bad change to the game ever, including things like Squeal of Fortune. Just saying'.

 

If this was a single player game you might have a point. In a MMO you can't ignore the interactions players have with each other. 'don't change how you play the game' like you said, and you'll fall quickly behind everyone else and spend twice as long to achieve the same things. Where's the fun in that?

 

(note: a lot of updates that make the game easier are /fine/, nobody wants useless new content, right? Arguably in several cases they went way overboard though *cough* 2x faster afkable rc *cough*. But I don't think that's a debate for this topic)

 

Are you implying that the old runecrafting method was fine just the way it was? Also, no one likes SoF because you can buy spins and Jagex changed their RWT rules to keep it legit. If spins weren't able to be bought SoF would be less of a problem to many players. His comment is valid. It really does change how you play if you decided to ignore it. It changes how the game can be played.

[Arcley]

Are you implying that the old runecrafting method was fine just the way it was?

I'm saying the new method is too good exp for the effort compared to the majority of existing content in the game. In two days of semi-afk rc the skill went from one of my lowest to one of my highest. To clarify, it's not the exp rate that's the biggest problem, it's reasonable that rc is closer to other skills. But for the best rates you should at least have to put an effort into it (runespan has zero requirements! at least abyss, zmi, etc take some preparing, utilising other skills, etc. to do efficiently)

 

They did have some actually good ideas earlier to make rc less tedious like ess carrying familiars and extra teleports, but those were never really all that effective. As an example I think pouch-crafting would be more popular if you didn't have to manually fill and empty them all the time, and they were more of an inventory extension for essence only (think how bags in WoW work).

[Hedgehog]

As a side note to your side note: If Jagex wants to reduce the monotony, or grind, of RuneScape the better approach is to introduce higher experience rates. While the gaps between levels may seam large, their size can be decreased relatively by introducing faster ways of training, which seams to be Jagex's strategy with the introduction of higher level training methods to lots of skills as well as the recent addition of RuneSpan.

 

I think there was an argument for this as a means of eliminating a certain 'type' of botter. Some people utilising autoers were doing so merely to avoid the grind (which seems stupid to me, why "play" the game at all if you aren't actually going to play). So by having activities such as Runespan which have increased xp rates over the standard training and are less attention intensive, some of those peope may be dissuaded from botting. I understand the "ruining the game" argument for some, but if you want to play the old way, go for it, it doesn't have to change how 'you' (not you personally, just a general comment) play the game.

 

Meh.

I had a thread about decreasing the incentive to bot/rwt by adding dailies and less grindy ways to train. I'm obviously smiling contentedly now.

[PolarBearBlue]

Are you implying that the old runecrafting method was fine just the way it was?

I'm saying the new method is too good exp for the effort compared to the majority of existing content in the game. In two days of semi-afk rc the skill went from one of my lowest to one of my highest. To clarify, it's not the exp rate that's the biggest problem, it's reasonable that rc is closer to other skills. But for the best rates you should at least have to put an effort into it (runespan has zero requirements! at least abyss, zmi, etc take some preparing, utilising other skills, etc. to do efficiently)

 

They did have some actually good ideas earlier to make rc less tedious like ess carrying familiars and extra teleports, but those were never really all that effective. As an example I think pouch-crafting would be more popular if you didn't have to manually fill and empty them all the time, and they were more of an inventory extension for essence only (think how bags in WoW work).

 

The skill is still relatively new, so I'm not surprised about the exp rates or the amount of effort you have to put into it. Mostly because it will take Jagex some time to realize the exp rate are too good and that this skill is too AFKable. But maybe this is what Jagex wants. But I think we still have to wait for the next update before we really say, "Oh Jagex, you kinda [bleep]ed this skill up]".

[Bxpprod]

I understand the "ruining the game" argument for some, but if you want to play the old way, go for it, it doesn't have to change how 'you' (not you personally, just a general comment) play the game.

You could use that argument to justify every bad change to the game ever, including things like Squeal of Fortune. Just saying'.

 

It should be noted that I said I understand [...] the argument, not that I agree with (or subscribe to) it.

 

If this was a single player game you might have a point. In a MMO you can't ignore the interactions players have with each other. 'don't change how you play the game' like you said, and you'll fall quickly behind everyone else and spend twice as long to achieve the same things. Where's the fun in that?

 

The fun comes in the form of playing for your own satisfication (set goals for yourself) and not using the achievements of others as a benchmark of what makes you feel satisfied. If your gaming experience is dependent on how others play, you're always going to find yourself in a situation where you're unhappy (not having as much time to play, not having the same gear, such and such).

 

(note: a lot of updates that make the game easier are /fine/, nobody wants useless new content, right? Arguably in several cases they went way overboard though *cough* 2x faster afkable rc *cough*. But I don't think that's a debate for this topic)

 

I have no doubt that at some point along the line, they are going to tweak the xp rates. Rarely does anyone get anything perfect the first time, and there is room to move on this.

 

I had a thread about decreasing the incentive to bot/rwt by adding dailies and less grindy ways to train. I'm obviously smiling contentedly now.

 

I vaguely remember this being a point of discussion back when the "first" botnuke was dropped. Not only do we want to break bots, but also kill the reasons for botting (although it's near impossible to remove the greed that spawns RWTing). Might work for some.

[Hedgehog]

http://forum.tip.it/topic/302771-this-should-help-jagex-beat-bots/

 

Found my thread :3