OG Blog: Tradition and Challenge

[Saradomin_Mage]

[qfc]296-297-805-63808234[/qfc]

 

Hi all,

 

I hope to clarify our thinking behind the new combat level calculation here. As you will have seen, the new combat level calculation has been announced and is:

 

2 + Defence + X = Combat Level

X = The highest of either Attack, Strength, Ranged or Magic

 

Therefore the new highest combat level is 200, and the new lowest is 4.

 

What we wanted to achieve with the new calculation was to streamline it, so making it easier to gauge how difficult your target will be to fight. Now while in a way it is sad to see Prayer, Summoning and Constitution retired from the formula, we felt that they were just complicating the issue.

 

While Prayer does make a big difference to the outcome of a fight, ultimately either someone has it or they don't and you'll soon see if they do when they use it. To this end, we felt people who are serious about their combat would all have the necessary Prayers. In a system where everyone has something, featuring it in the calculation doesn't really help anyone, and so for the sake of streamlining, Prayer was dropped from the formula.

 

In regards to Summoning and Constitution, while again they do make a difference, in the new system they don't make enough of a difference to warrant a place in the new formula. A maxed out player in the best gear will have 990 Lifepoints from their Constituion, but will be getting around 15,000 Lifepoints from their equipment. Summoning has largely been left to one side for now, as we wish to re-visit the skill with an overhaul of its very own in the future. For now, Summoning doesn't play a large part in the new combat system, so again is not featured in the new formula.

 

To be continued...

[Platinum_Myr]

That makes some sense.. but I feel like they don't understand their own game (yet again)

[999134]

summoning is my favourite skill... sad to see it is basicly being removed for now.

[Alg]

What we wanted to achieve with the new calculation was to streamline it, so making it easier to gauge how difficult your target will be to fight. Now while in a way it is sad to see Prayer, Summoning and Constitution retired from the formula, we felt that they were just complicating the issue.

???

 

I'm apparently going to be level 188, in spite of the fact that most of my combat stats are in the low/mid 80s. How does that make it easy to gauge how difficult I'll be to fight? How does removing prayer, constitution, and summoning from the formula do that? Do they not know how powerful those skills are? :wall:

 

I hope this gets changed. There's too complicated and then there's too simple.

[Thus]

Basically the new system is just a way to kill pures.

 

Not that I see anything wrong in that.

 

Also it encourages people to be maxed and train evenly

[Saradomin_Mage]

Oh derp, he posted the second half :P

...We hope the new combat level will give people a clearer view of what their target is capable of. With the new level of balance we hope to bring to Melee, Range and Mage, and the reinforcement of the combat triangle, having 99 in Attack, Strength, Magic and Range won't provide you with an advantage over someone with only 99 in one corner of the combat triangle. Armours now feature heavy negative penalties for attacking with the wrong style while wearing them, so having 99's in all the corners of the combat triangle will not present an advantage during a fight. Where having 99's will be an advantage, is giving you the choice as to what style of combat you want to use before a fight.

 

We are very keen to hear your feedback on all aspects of the new system, and will work closely with the players during the Beta to help polish the system to the best it can be.

 

Some final random thoughts:

 

All NPC's have had their combat level changed to reflect their true combat ability, and will use the same system as players (a lot of boss monsters use fake combat levels in LIVE currently)

 

Players worried about a level 4 guy with 99 Summoning cleaning house with their Steel Titan needn't worry, that level 4 will get demolished with no defence, and hence no larger lifepoints pool.

Seems to imply that you won't be able to switch armour in combat, which may turn out interestingly.

[Alg]

Also it encourages people to be maxed and train evenly

By penalizing people that didn't in the past. If you've got one offense stat inflating your combat level, it'll make it that much harder to train the lower ones.

 

Just have to see how well this goes, I guess.

[Den]

I don't get how someone with 99 Strength and Defense will be as powerful in combat as I am with 99 in every skill related to combat.

 

Edit: Ok, I understand now with the second part of the post. What if the level 4 has 99 defence though? He'd be 102 combat with a steel titan and the best tank gear.

[Platinum_Myr]

Oh derp, he posted the second half :P

 

Seems to imply that you won't be able to switch armour in combat, which may turn out interestingly.

 

Even if you can switch combat styles in the middle of a fight, it requires a bit more work. (item swaps, plus move the bar to the new combat setup). While this is doable, it can be more difficult.

 

Being unable to change gear in combat is bad for some pvm situations (fight kiln mainly..) but would probably be better in pvp..

 

@Den:

That is probably what will be the best pure. Even so, you lack all the offensive abilities of attack/strength/mage/range. Steel titan is good in the *current* system, but I have a feeling that (with lifepoint increase) it will be less effective than it is now. And if steel titan is your only way of dealing massive damage...

[Sylpheed]

Like others, really not liking how combat level is calculated now, just seems like Jagex are shooting themselves in the foot to me.

 

Also, isn't this going to make Constitution largely pointless? The blog said that top end armours will give you 15k Hp with 99 Constitution giving you 990. So basically, you get more hit points from training defence than Hp, lolwut?

 

I know Constitution is pretty much trained passively with other combat stats but this just seems to make it a skill for the sake of being a skill.

[Platinum_Myr]

Also, isn't this going to make Constitution largely pointless? The blog said that top end armours will give you 15k Hp with 99 Constitution giving you 990. So basically, you get more hit points from training defence than Hp, lolwut?

 

I know Constitution is pretty much trained passively with other combat stats but this just seems to make it a skill for the sake of being a skill.

 

Unless there are a few interesting combat abilities for constitution maybe? And there are constitution requirements on some gears.

[Den]

I see constitution requirements on armour being a way to save it as a skill.

 

Really curious how this will pan out.

[Deaths Near]

Haven't seen this posted here yet

 

[qfc]296-297-574-63808127[/qfc]

 

I seen a fair few posts turn up about people worrying about not getting Slayer xp from low level tasks. To clarify the recent blog post, in the new system, Slayer XP is not affected by being over 30 levels above the target NPC. It is only the traditional combat XP that is affected in this way: Attack, Strength, Defence, Ranged, Magic and Constitution. If you are 30 or more levels above your target, you will receive reduced XP in these stats from killing them, as opposed to none at all. Slayer XP is not reduced.

 

Also, this only applies when you are *above* the targets level. If you are below the targets level, such as when fighting a boss such as Nex, there is no XP penalty.

 

Further clarification - all NPC's in the game have been given new combat levels. There should now always be something good to train on for full XP for your combat level.

 

Update:

 

After interrogating my fellow combat developers, here is more detailed information on XP:

 

The XP reduction kicks in based on comparing your offensive stat to the enemy Defence level, and in fact does not use your overall combat level. Here is an example:

 

I have 99 Attack, 99 Defence and 1 Magic.

I Mage an NPC with 50 Defence, and I have selected to Mage defensively, so gaining Magic and Defence XP.

Let's say this NPC awards 200 XP, therefore 50% (100 XP) is for Magic and 50% (100 XP) is for Defence.

My Defence skill is more than 30 levels above the NPC so this XP is reduced down to 10% (10 XP).

However, my Magic skill is less than 30 levels away from the NPC so I get 100% of my Magic XP (100 XP).

I am awarded 10 Defence XP and 100 Magic XP.

The reduction is only applied down, never up. So if I kill an NPC that is 50 levels higher than my offence and defence skill, I will be awarded 100% of the XP.

However, if my offence and defence skills are 30+ levels above the NPC I kill, I shall only be awarded 10% of the XP.

 

@Tomiz, that should answer your question about training attack/strength when already at 200 combat from mage/defence.

[Sir_Squab]

So, I think that forum post answered most of my questions about summ tanks and such. And you're forced to train your combat skills semi-equally or your screwed if you're forced to fight lvl 50 monsters with lvl 1 range.

 

Summ pures/def hopefully won't be effective. Depends on how good steel titan is in the new system.

 

Still doesn't answer the prayer question either, this forces everyone who wants to be competitive in PVP to get turm.

[Bxpprod]

Haven't seen this posted here yet

 

[qfc]296-297-574-63808127[/qfc]

 

I seen a fair few posts turn up about people worrying about not getting Slayer xp from low level tasks. To clarify the recent blog post, in the new system, Slayer XP is not affected by being over 30 levels above the target NPC. It is only the traditional combat XP that is affected in this way: Attack, Strength, Defence, Ranged, Magic and Constitution. If you are 30 or more levels above your target, you will receive reduced XP in these stats from killing them, as opposed to none at all. Slayer XP is not reduced.

 

Also, this only applies when you are *above* the targets level. If you are below the targets level, such as when fighting a boss such as Nex, there is no XP penalty.

 

Further clarification - all NPC's in the game have been given new combat levels. There should now always be something good to train on for full XP for your combat level.

 

Update:

 

After interrogating my fellow combat developers, here is more detailed information on XP:

 

The XP reduction kicks in based on comparing your offensive stat to the enemy Defence level, and in fact does not use your overall combat level. Here is an example:

 

I have 99 Attack, 99 Defence and 1 Magic.

I Mage an NPC with 50 Defence, and I have selected to Mage defensively, so gaining Magic and Defence XP.

Let's say this NPC awards 200 XP, therefore 50% (100 XP) is for Magic and 50% (100 XP) is for Defence.

My Defence skill is more than 30 levels above the NPC so this XP is reduced down to 10% (10 XP).

However, my Magic skill is less than 30 levels away from the NPC so I get 100% of my Magic XP (100 XP).

I am awarded 10 Defence XP and 100 Magic XP.

The reduction is only applied down, never up. So if I kill an NPC that is 50 levels higher than my offence and defence skill, I will be awarded 100% of the XP.

However, if my offence and defence skills are 30+ levels above the NPC I kill, I shall only be awarded 10% of the XP.

 

@Tomiz, that should answer your question about training attack/strength when already at 200 combat from mage/defence.

 

Well. That is a great example of not breaking a working system, but completely smashing it to [bleep]ing pieces and pissing all over it.

[Stommel]

After interrogating my fellow combat developers, here is more detailed information on XP:

 

The XP reduction kicks in based on comparing your offensive stat to the enemy Defence level, and in fact does not use your overall combat level. Here is an example:

 

I have 99 Attack, 99 Defence and 1 Magic.

I Mage an NPC with 50 Defence, and I have selected to Mage defensively, so gaining Magic and Defence XP.

Let's say this NPC awards 200 XP, therefore 50% (100 XP) is for Magic and 50% (100 XP) is for Defence.

My Defence skill is more than 30 levels above the NPC so this XP is reduced down to 10% (10 XP).

However, my Magic skill is less than 30 levels away from the NPC so I get 100% of my Magic XP (100 XP).

I am awarded 10 Defence XP and 100 Magic XP.

The reduction is only applied down, never up. So if I kill an NPC that is 50 levels higher than my offence and defence skill, I will be awarded 100% of the XP.

However, if my offence and defence skills are 30+ levels above the NPC I kill, I shall only be awarded 10% of the XP.

 

That's actually pretty sensible

[Poppe]

The idea of a summoning overall interests me more then anything :P. I use a Steel Titan on a good portion of my slayer tasks and I love the dps boost from it, but the AI system for summons has always been horrible. Always such a large delay in its re-targeting to a new npc and many more small annoyances.

 

I do have a bit of concerned being assigned lower level summoning creatures and having reduced melee experience gained, but will hold that worry until I actually see the new system. I have some hope the new combat rebalance for npcs will make it so higher end slayer creatures don't fall below level 170 or they tweak slayer masters to assign within levels.

[Sir_Squab]

They've answered most of the questions I had issues with, but even if this system destroys summ/def pures or other sorts of pures, it still gives a huge edge to players with 99 summ and 95 turm.

[Alg]

That's actually pretty sensible

Indeed. Just have to see how well it's incorporated now.

[Mdeoxys]

I'm just sad that I'll be buffed to 200 cmb right away (99 def + 99 att), now I can't finish my long term goal of getting 138 cmb :(.

[Jonanananas]

I'm just sad that I'll be buffed to 200 cmb right away (99 def + 99 att), now I can't finish my long term goal of getting 138 cmb :(.

 

You still can, the real update is only around september or so ;)

[Platinum_Myr]

That makes a lot more sense. So the xp is only limited based on opponent's defense vs skills gaining xp. That balances out a lot better. That was ill-clarified in the blog post, and it will be difficult to assess xp gains based on combat level, because we don't have the creature's actual stats at the moment..

[demby123]

Good thing about this is that I'll be the max level possible with my cape if my stats stay the same! :thumbsup:

This does kinda kill pures.... Geting any 99 combat basically means you need the rest at 99 to compete.

defence is separate, you either have 99 defence with no offensive skills and the summon/hp/prayer set, or 99 offensives with 1 defence and the summon/pray/hp set

 

it doesn't really change, as pures will still be 99 combat levels lower than their opponents who are balanced. If anything this helps pures in some ways.

[Jonanananas]

Good thing about this is that I'll be the max level possible with my cape if my stats stay the same! :thumbsup:

This does kinda kill pures.... Geting any 99 combat basically means you need the rest at 99 to compete.

defence is separate, you either have 99 defence with no offensive skills and the summon/hp/prayer set, or 99 offensives with 1 defence and the summon/pray/hp set

 

it doesn't really change, as pures will still be 99 combat levels lower than their opponents who are balanced. If anything this helps pures in some ways.

 

But you'll fail without defence, and you'll fail without at least one high offensive skill....

[Platinum_Myr]

Good thing about this is that I'll be the max level possible with my cape if my stats stay the same! :thumbsup:

This does kinda kill pures.... Geting any 99 combat basically means you need the rest at 99 to compete.

defence is separate, you either have 99 defence with no offensive skills and the summon/hp/prayer set, or 99 offensives with 1 defence and the summon/pray/hp set

 

it doesn't really change, as pures will still be 99 combat levels lower than their opponents who are balanced. If anything this helps pures in some ways.

 

That doesn't mean they'll be 99 combat levels lower than their opponents at all. Their opponents will be ~50 offenses and 50 defenses. Determining whether this is viable is a completely different issue. I think the defensive abilities will prevent offense pures, and I think the lack of offense damage will make summon pures not as great.

 

It really depends on how the abilities work out. I'm sure someone will try to find the optimum levels based on gear/abilities/etc, but I don't believe it will be lv1 def or lv1 offensives.

 

EDIT: Jonananananas said it better than me

Edited June 20, 2012 by Platinum_Myr