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How exactly is the clan world dying?

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21 replies to this topic

#1
TS Togusa
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I've seen so many threads on RSC and the RSOF saying that the clan world is dying. How is it dying? To me, it's just a small faction that's dying. The rest of the clan world seems to be alive and thriving.

Technically speaking, when you say "the clan world is dying," you are basically saying that the collective for every single clan in RuneScape is dying. That means that not only is the PK/Warring community dying, but PvM, skilling, community, Dungeoneering, among other clans are also undergoing this slow, agonising necrosis. But this just isn't the case. It's just mostly PK/Warring clans I see going downhill.

Jagex just announced that they're gonna be releasing two new skills and the Kalphite King, and already I see PvM and skilling clans on the RSOF going nuts about it. They're all clearly ecstatic and can't wait for these updates to be released. Community clans are just that, clans for a community. So long as there's a community to cater to, community clans won't die. Now from what I've heard from my friends who are obsessed with DG, the Dungeoneering community has been going downhill as of late due to the large amount of bots spamming FCs and people just leeching rather than actually raiding the floors, but the 100+ DG community is still somewhat tolerable.

So how then is the clan world dying? I don't mean to offend anyone, but the clan world is no longer homogeneous and is now home to a diverse ecosystem of other clans. So before making such a brash statement like "the clan world is dying." take into account that it's not the whole collective of clans that exist in RS that's dying, rather it's a small faction of it.

#2
Mojohaza1
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In the eyes of the clans on RSC and the warring ones on RSOF and the few left here the term "clan world" refers to the PvP clan world, they don't care about none-PvP.

You may be right about the rest of the clan world being fine, I have no personal experience of this.

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#3
Sy_Accursed
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Yeah it's typical 'tunnel vision' akin the the wildy/free trade removal where pkers were all saying they made up the majority of players even though any poll on play style showed pkers to be a distinct minority.

Only waring/pvp clans have need to be on multi-clan forums and such to a huge extent; these are a dying breed and thus the forums go quiet and the people who see those forums as a marker of the clan world at large thus deeming it to be dying. Whilst the hundreds and thousands of non-pvp clans bubble along nicely as they ever did, if anything I'd say clans got stronger again since citadels and avatars because most everyone wants to be in a good low req clan to garner the boosts it entails either from citadel work or just pure avatar boost.

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#4
Kaur
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As others have stated, it refers to the pvp type of clans.

And no, it's not a 'tunnel vision'. PVP clans are the oldest type of clans in RuneScape, all those skilling, pvm, chatroom etcetcetc clans practically did not exist before let's say 2006. The direction of RuneScape has changed over time to more and more please the skillers and boss hunters while neglecting the more dangerous type of playerbase. The wilderness has been practically unchanged since the release of rs2. (no, graphics do not count) Nothing drives players into the wilderness any more as the once best training methods(axe hut, greater demon ruins etc) and moneymaking methods(looting runes in dark warriors fortress, various mines, rune rocks, rune helm dropping greater demons!) that were inside the wilderness have been replaced with safe and much more rewarding alternatives.

Know your history.

#5
Sy_Accursed
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As others have stated, it refers to the pvp type of clans.

And no, it's not a 'tunnel vision'. PVP clans are the oldest type of clans in RuneScape, all those skilling, pvm, chatroom etcetcetc clans practically did not exist before let's say 2006. The direction of RuneScape has changed over time to more and more please the skillers and boss hunters while neglecting the more dangerous type of playerbase. The wilderness has been practically unchanged since the release of rs2. (no, graphics do not count) Nothing drives players into the wilderness any more as the once best training methods(axe hut, greater demon ruins etc) and moneymaking methods(looting runes in dark warriors fortress, various mines, rune rocks, rune helm dropping greater demons!) that were inside the wilderness have been replaced with safe and much more rewarding alternatives.

Know your history.


But tunnel vision by definition is looking at only one narrow band of the entirety; so to hyperbolically claim 'the clan world is dying' on the basis of ONE type of clan that is faltering whilst the rest carry on is a tunnel-visioned statement.

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#6
Kaur
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Let's take apples and oranges to help explain.

We have a huge basket of apples. We call it the apple basket. Now we add a couple of oranges, it's still apple basket. We eat most of the apples and add a lot of oranges, guess what? It's still called apple basket.

#7
Naraku893
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PKing/Warring clans are dying quickly, pretty sad but true. I don't know if Jagex plans to try and fix that and give PKers/clanners some content like we have been asking for forever, but as of right now it's basically dead. From what I know there are a few clans that still war on weekends out of pure tradition but that's it.

It also sucks to log in and find that the dungeoneering community is almost gone too.

#8
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It's painful to admit as someone who believes Dungeoneering was in its own special place as a skill that required genuine talent to perform effectively, but there simply isn't the same number of players training DG at the higher levels as there used to be a year ago. Add to that the release of solo-able DG xp rates, and it's very little wonder why clan-based DG activity has suffered.

This thread was more aimed at PvP clans than DG clans though. I don't know an awful lot about the former, so I'll reserve comment and stop derailing the thread. I only wanted to make clear that the "death of clan DG" (in hyperbolic terms) is as much a result of natural causes as it is any intervention on Jagex's part.

#9
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I hate to piss in anyone's cereal here, but the PvP clanning community has been around for a long, long time. Much longer than those dungeoneering clans that spawned from clan chats or PvM clans. The amount of dedication involved within a PvP clan is far more than in both of those combined. For it is not for personal gain. It is simply done for the betterment of the clan. That's why players return for hours and hours, dying with full gear in the Wilderness so that their clan can pull off the win. That's why Warlords and Leaders of these clans spend those hours calling into all hours of the night, regardless of other commitments. Don't believe me? Look up the 24 hour fight between The Titans and Divine Forces. I find it sad and disappointing to see this disappear, only to be replaced by gambling and citadels.

People seem to underestimate this faction of the clan world simply because they refuse to be a part of it. As a result, activity has declined to the point of it becoming a minority and updates such as EoC or the Wilderness Toggle option end up passing through the game with relatively little retaliation, effectively causing an even further decline.

So, please do not underestimate the impact the loss of PvP clanning has had. For not only did it give a reason to login for a great deal of players, but the level and intensity of gameplay experienced cannot possibly be compared to anything in PvM/skilling clans.

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#10
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New players just don't bother going to pvp anymore, this is why.
We got the rotten old farts around complaining all the time instead of trying to get new recruits.

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#11
Nobody
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PVP is dying because it's boring. It's the same old fights (change the names and times slightly) with nothing knew to offer anyone. The dedicated fighters move to the top clans to get fights while smaller clans because lack of members and inability to thrive where the two options are find nobody (bring back PVP/Bounty worlds pls) or run into one of those top clans and get smashed. Then the top clans crash each other out of boredom or some sort of rivalry blah blah blah The Crash War is boring and I'm guessing still going probably just so people have something to fight about.

PVP clans are dying because a lack of interest (RS has become much more "efficiency" focused, not efficient to return for hours or spend millions PKing)

Community, PVM, DG Clans are thriving. As referenced above people want that 3% avatar boost or use of a citadel or just people to talk to. PVM is still one of the top methods of income/fun especially for higher levels so they're still thriving. The release of new bosses and such doesn't hurt community or PVM clans either as it gives people a place to discuss and share knowledge about updates.

DG clans are thriving because people want to earn that completionist cape and can't/won't pay to leech floors. They often end up enjoying DG after gaining a certain basic grasp of the concepts. DG Clans also serve as community clans in a way further increasing their membership as (at least in my experience) after 120 DG or 200M exp in some cases people feel a connection with their fellow clanmemebers and stick around.


In summary, PVP clans are faltering but every other type of clan is thriving. So in a way the old clan world is dying. Seriously 24 hour fight? No wonder nobody wants to join a PVP clan any more.

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#12
unclebilly1
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PVP clanning was boring at the end because outside of set wars or crashing there was no reason to enter the wilderness. The 'food chain' argument while simplistic did have a good point. Good training areas or profitable resources drove the solo player into the wildy, which attracted small teams, which attracted bigger clans. Medium clans would hunt small teams while big clans hunted the medium clans. Clans with beef would seek each other out. Once PKing died all that was left were set wars, which you're right, only a few were really fun. PKing was where the fun was, and the endless stream of 'safe' updates drove the solo players away, killing the wilderness.

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#13
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Also, frankly, the quality of players in a lot of the major PVP clans is horrendous (I'm thinking particularly about the 'pure' world here) ~ it's an utter cesspool of macroing, ingrained rivalries and stupidity.

#14
newbez
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Hi, we recently did a publication about the Death of Runescape Clans. It's actually a quite interesting how the clan world actually turned into a social / communistic state over the years. 

 

If you view the clan world from its "golden era" up until now you will see the merging of larger clans and the start of teams created a social hierarchy. The Jagex Cup itself is geared only to the thought of all clan's fighting. Small clans understand they have no chance and large clans will constantly fight each other. In the clan world it comes down to Resources aka : Members and potential members. To a large clan, smaller clans are potential members they can swallow up once they reach a higher level and crave more daily action that a large clan can provide. Small clan's rarely battle and will stick mostly to a community style or PvM style. By doing this a small clan will always remain small because there is little overall voice in the larger clan presence. Over the last few years this eliminated mid sized clans completely. 

 

DF, EoS, RoT, DI, etc will continue to always fight each other. They will control the wilderness completely and leave no resources for small clans to survive in the pvp realm. Jagex cannot keep up with the Jagex Cup's and something else needs to be created in order to create a life in the Runescape Clan World again. Pvm is great but only consist of members mainly from other clans. 



#15
sa121
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Also, frankly, the quality of players in a lot of the major PVP clans is horrendous (I'm thinking particularly about the 'pure' world here) ~ it's an utter cesspool of macroing, ingrained rivalries and stupidity.

 

 

Unfortunately this is too true.  Probably a solid 50% or more of the clan world has botted stats on their account, or has multiple botted accounts.  In addition, due to the nature of many clans requiring events that can last incredibly long times, you tend to get a lot of the burnt-out types in it, which leads to a fairly immature community at times.

 

 

That said, my time in PvP clans were probably some of the best I've ever had in RS.  Even with all the bad things/people involved in it, it's incredibly fun and the camaraderie of clan members is something everyone should experience.


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#16
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Go look, the people that keep PVP minigames alive have 10-25 people at most.

 

Then there's the billion PVM clans, yawn.


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#17
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Apparently MM had a disclosure a few weeks ago.

 

RIP one of the largest and longest-lasting pure clans to date?

 

sigh:(


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#18
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Yup, MM closed... Maybe it'll pull a DI in the future though.  Kinda sad to see MM in the pure cup rankings at the edgeville score board and know they're no more.


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#19
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I don't think the clan worlds are dying.. people are just scared to join a new clan nowadays, which makes it very hard to start a new clan and even if someone starts a new clan.. it will die very quickly if it doesn't have an original idea and a good name. 

 

And (I'm speaking of experience here) if you join an already established large clan, you'll never feel welcome among all those veterans in the clan chat.. i have found myself in lots of situations where no one even answering me and ended up getting kicked because i was not active in the clan chat...  =D>


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#20
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