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Chaotics


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21 replies to this topic

#1
Thorgmir
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I've recently started dungeoneering again and will soon be acquiring a lot of tokens. My question is what chaotics should I get, and in what order? I currently have just a rapier. I know I should get a maul, so no questions there. Is the crossbow still worth getting, and what about offhands, for both the rapier and the crossbow? And what about the shields? I plan on using this gear to alternate between slaying and PvM.

Please, in addition to any specific comments on any items, clearly indicate the priority of each of them (ie., maul > offhand rapier > chaotic kiteshield, etc.).
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#2
Guado
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Right now, and in my opinion, (And in order)

Definitely Maul
Chaotic Staff
Off-hand Rapier

As for the crossbows, Dual Wielding seems to be a bit sub-par for now (We got hinted at an update to bring them up to date). With the likelihood of the promised Ranged slayer dungeon coming 'soon', and with it, potentially lvl 90 ranged weapons, I think I'd prefer a Zaryte / Royal Crossbow for now :P

Demon horn necklace also seems good to camp the likes of Ganos nowadays. Thought I should mention it even though it's not a Chaotic :P
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#3
Quest_Cape_K
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Maul definite.
Chaotic crossbow is good with eagle eye kite shield (depends on what bossing you do).
Farseer kite shield is brilliant for maging.
Chaotic staff is good since its an affordable t80 magic weapon.


#4
Guado
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Right, I completely forgot shields. Take Quest's advice up there
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#5
Thorgmir
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How much of an improvement is the chaotic staff over, say, a staff of light?
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#6
Vezon Dash
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How much of an improvement is the chaotic staff over, say, a staff of light?


Marginally.

#7
Guado
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2384 accuracy vs 3043. Around 36% better.
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#8
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Less than 36% because of diminishing returns.

#9
jayc3399
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Has any testing been done for dr? I'd assume there is some but at what point does it come into play?

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#10
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Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.

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#11
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Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.

You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition?

Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort.
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#12
Sy_Accursed
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Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.

You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition?

Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort.


It's quite simple:
All monsters have a certain level of accuracy at which you cannot get anymore accurate against them and thus improving your accuracy stat further is meaningless when fighting them.

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#13
chenw
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Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.

You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition?

Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort.


I am surprised that you are unaware of an accuracy cap...

The Chance to hit any monster is 100% (or whatever the game designer have put in, 99%, 95%, but the exact value does not matter in this discussion), regardless of how high your 'accuracy' is, this is true in every single thing under the sun, you cannot get more than 100% chance to hit.

While accuracy is very closely linked to chance to hit, it is not a direct conversion (if it was, it would mean that low level players cannot hit anything with bronze weapons due to their accuracy being so low). Thus there must exist a point in that calculation where the resulting chance to hit on the monster has reached the cap (whether that is the absolute cap or the game cap), and any further accuracy increases beyond this point serve absolutely no purpose.

Accuracy is a great thing to have, but once you hit that cap, it becomes the most useless stat to upgrade thereafter.

I am pretty sure that chance to hit bosses will not hit the cap anytime soon without using the very best gear, the rest of RS is a completely different matter. If one can reliably hit stuff without missing their targets for any length of time using a lower tier magical weapon, then I find absolutely no point in getting a degradeable upgrade that yields no actual upgrade. Magic is unique in this regard that the weapon only provides accuracy and attack speed, while the damage itself is determined by the spell alone, which has no tie to the weapon. Melee and ranged upgrades will always be upgrades because their damage is based on themselves rather than something outside, so even if accuracy is redundant, their damage is unaffected.

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#14
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Maul is definately best chaotic atm, staff 2nd if you can't afford virtus wand :)
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#15
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Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.

You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition?

Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort.


I am surprised that you are unaware of an accuracy cap...

The Chance to hit any monster is 100% (or whatever the game designer have put in, 99%, 95%, but the exact value does not matter in this discussion), regardless of how high your 'accuracy' is, this is true in every single thing under the sun, you cannot get more than 100% chance to hit.

While accuracy is very closely linked to chance to hit, it is not a direct conversion (if it was, it would mean that low level players cannot hit anything with bronze weapons due to their accuracy being so low). Thus there must exist a point in that calculation where the resulting chance to hit on the monster has reached the cap (whether that is the absolute cap or the game cap), and any further accuracy increases beyond this point serve absolutely no purpose.

Accuracy is a great thing to have, but once you hit that cap, it becomes the most useless stat to upgrade thereafter.

I am pretty sure that chance to hit bosses will not hit the cap anytime soon without using the very best gear, the rest of RS is a completely different matter. If one can reliably hit stuff without missing their targets for any length of time using a lower tier magical weapon, then I find absolutely no point in getting a degradeable upgrade that yields no actual upgrade. Magic is unique in this regard that the weapon only provides accuracy and attack speed, while the damage itself is determined by the spell alone, which has no tie to the weapon. Melee and ranged upgrades will always be upgrades because their damage is based on themselves rather than something outside, so even if accuracy is redundant, their damage is unaffected.

Accuracy never becomes useless unless your opponent has exactly 0 defense(and as far as i'm aware, no monster in rs does), you just have diminishing returns. Given that the best combat xp is gained now by fighting higher level monsters, the accuracy will almost certainly help.

The thing to consider here is rather that a one handed magic weapon will be faster, thus you will be able to land more auto-attacks. With slow weapons like 2h's and the chaotic staff, most of your damage will be done by abilities alone, thus it would be advised to use a slightly less accurate 1h staff and a book when your opponent either has low hp or low defense(~>80% accuracy), or both. That and as ascribed above about the damage part is why magic is quite different from melee and ranged in EoC(and, I might add, has a distinct advantage).

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#16
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Maul is great. CCB is a waste tbh, staff is pretty good, and the rest are inferior to drygore weapons, though make decent substitutes until the drygore weapons come down in price.
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#17
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Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.

You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition?

Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort.


I am surprised that you are unaware of an accuracy cap...

The Chance to hit any monster is 100% (or whatever the game designer have put in, 99%, 95%, but the exact value does not matter in this discussion), regardless of how high your 'accuracy' is, this is true in every single thing under the sun, you cannot get more than 100% chance to hit.

While accuracy is very closely linked to chance to hit, it is not a direct conversion (if it was, it would mean that low level players cannot hit anything with bronze weapons due to their accuracy being so low). Thus there must exist a point in that calculation where the resulting chance to hit on the monster has reached the cap (whether that is the absolute cap or the game cap), and any further accuracy increases beyond this point serve absolutely no purpose.

Accuracy is a great thing to have, but once you hit that cap, it becomes the most useless stat to upgrade thereafter.

I am pretty sure that chance to hit bosses will not hit the cap anytime soon without using the very best gear, the rest of RS is a completely different matter. If one can reliably hit stuff without missing their targets for any length of time using a lower tier magical weapon, then I find absolutely no point in getting a degradeable upgrade that yields no actual upgrade. Magic is unique in this regard that the weapon only provides accuracy and attack speed, while the damage itself is determined by the spell alone, which has no tie to the weapon. Melee and ranged upgrades will always be upgrades because their damage is based on themselves rather than something outside, so even if accuracy is redundant, their damage is unaffected.

Accuracy never becomes useless unless your opponent has exactly 0 defense(and as far as i'm aware, no monster in rs does), you just have diminishing returns. Given that the best combat xp is gained now by fighting higher level monsters, the accuracy will almost certainly help.

The thing to consider here is rather that a one handed magic weapon will be faster, thus you will be able to land more auto-attacks. With slow weapons like 2h's and the chaotic staff, most of your damage will be done by abilities alone, thus it would be advised to use a slightly less accurate 1h staff and a book when your opponent either has low hp or low defense(~>80% accuracy), or both. That and as ascribed above about the damage part is why magic is quite different from melee and ranged in EoC(and, I might add, has a distinct advantage).


As far as I know, the most effective way to use magic is ability>ability>auto>repeat. This maximizes your attack speed (both will hit at the same rate), but a staff will add 2.5x damage for every auto attack making it more effective.

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#18
xpx
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You use abilities on the same tick as auto attacks(basically doing 2 attacks at once). The problem here is that for 6 tick weapons, abilities restore faster and thus ´´spamming´´ abilities is preferable over waiting 3.6 seconds for an auto attack. With 4 tick weapons, you can actually wait for the auto-attack and be effective. Thus shortbows and wand+book combos will always have an edge with more auto-attacks landed.

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#19
Guado
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Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.

You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition?

Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort.


I am surprised that you are unaware of an accuracy cap...

The Chance to hit any monster is 100% (or whatever the game designer have put in, 99%, 95%, but the exact value does not matter in this discussion), regardless of how high your 'accuracy' is, this is true in every single thing under the sun, you cannot get more than 100% chance to hit.

While accuracy is very closely linked to chance to hit, it is not a direct conversion (if it was, it would mean that low level players cannot hit anything with bronze weapons due to their accuracy being so low). Thus there must exist a point in that calculation where the resulting chance to hit on the monster has reached the cap (whether that is the absolute cap or the game cap), and any further accuracy increases beyond this point serve absolutely no purpose.

Accuracy is a great thing to have, but once you hit that cap, it becomes the most useless stat to upgrade thereafter.

I am pretty sure that chance to hit bosses will not hit the cap anytime soon without using the very best gear, the rest of RS is a completely different matter. If one can reliably hit stuff without missing their targets for any length of time using a lower tier magical weapon, then I find absolutely no point in getting a degradeable upgrade that yields no actual upgrade. Magic is unique in this regard that the weapon only provides accuracy and attack speed, while the damage itself is determined by the spell alone, which has no tie to the weapon. Melee and ranged upgrades will always be upgrades because their damage is based on themselves rather than something outside, so even if accuracy is redundant, their damage is unaffected.

And that to me is Accuracy vs. Defence roll, not an invisible 'cap'. And vs. Defence, nothing's better than accuracy.

Granted, you shouldn't upgrade a lvl 75 staff into a lvl 80 to kill goblins or farm unicows, but if you go anywhere over, like, level 140, you'll probably find it useful.

That said, I have no factual evidence to backup what I'm claiming, and I'm open to being proven wrong and corrected.
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#20
Thorgmir
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So is the consensus that after maul, I should get the shields and staff only?
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