Thorgmir Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I've recently started dungeoneering again and will soon be acquiring a lot of tokens. My question is what chaotics should I get, and in what order? I currently have just a rapier. I know I should get a maul, so no questions there. Is the crossbow still worth getting, and what about offhands, for both the rapier and the crossbow? And what about the shields? I plan on using this gear to alternate between slaying and PvM. Please, in addition to any specific comments on any items, clearly indicate the priority of each of them (ie., maul > offhand rapier > chaotic kiteshield, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guado Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Right now, and in my opinion, (And in order) Definitely MaulChaotic StaffOff-hand Rapier As for the crossbows, Dual Wielding seems to be a bit sub-par for now (We got hinted at an update to bring them up to date). With the likelihood of the promised Ranged slayer dungeon coming 'soon', and with it, potentially lvl 90 ranged weapons, I think I'd prefer a Zaryte / Royal Crossbow for now :P Demon horn necklace also seems good to camp the likes of Ganos nowadays. Thought I should mention it even though it's not a Chaotic :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest_Cape_K Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Maul definite.Chaotic crossbow is good with eagle eye kite shield (depends on what bossing you do).Farseer kite shield is brilliant for maging.Chaotic staff is good since its an affordable t80 magic weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guado Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Right, I completely forgot shields. Take Quest's advice up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgmir Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 How much of an improvement is the chaotic staff over, say, a staff of light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vezon Dash Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 How much of an improvement is the chaotic staff over, say, a staff of light? Marginally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guado Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 2384 accuracy vs 3043. Around 36% better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Less than 36% because of diminishing returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayc3399 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Has any testing been done for dr? I'd assume there is some but at what point does it come into play? Quest Cape Achieved on November 14, 2007Items AcquiredCrystal Pick and HatchetBerzerker Ring x 33/28 Barrows Items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenw Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon. 6,924th to 30 hunting, 13,394th to 30 summoning, 52,993rd to 30 DivinationKiln Record (Post-EoC): W 25 - L 0, 14 Uncut Onyx, 8 Jad hits received (Best record: Two in the same kiln)Obby set renewed post update #2: 0QBD drops: 21 crossbow parts, 3 Visages, 1 Kites, 2 KitsMax Port Score [2205] Achieved: 27th April 2013 (World 2nd) Farmyard Rampage ranking: 12th, 50,000 Kills. Dragon Pickaxe Drops: 1 (Times after I first entered Battlefield: 2h) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guado Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition? Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy_Accursed Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition? Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort. It's quite simple:All monsters have a certain level of accuracy at which you cannot get anymore accurate against them and thus improving your accuracy stat further is meaningless when fighting them. Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills :: Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA RewardsDragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenw Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition? Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort. I am surprised that you are unaware of an accuracy cap... The Chance to hit any monster is 100% (or whatever the game designer have put in, 99%, 95%, but the exact value does not matter in this discussion), regardless of how high your 'accuracy' is, this is true in every single thing under the sun, you cannot get more than 100% chance to hit. While accuracy is very closely linked to chance to hit, it is not a direct conversion (if it was, it would mean that low level players cannot hit anything with bronze weapons due to their accuracy being so low). Thus there must exist a point in that calculation where the resulting chance to hit on the monster has reached the cap (whether that is the absolute cap or the game cap), and any further accuracy increases beyond this point serve absolutely no purpose. Accuracy is a great thing to have, but once you hit that cap, it becomes the most useless stat to upgrade thereafter. I am pretty sure that chance to hit bosses will not hit the cap anytime soon without using the very best gear, the rest of RS is a completely different matter. If one can reliably hit stuff without missing their targets for any length of time using a lower tier magical weapon, then I find absolutely no point in getting a degradeable upgrade that yields no actual upgrade. Magic is unique in this regard that the weapon only provides accuracy and attack speed, while the damage itself is determined by the spell alone, which has no tie to the weapon. Melee and ranged upgrades will always be upgrades because their damage is based on themselves rather than something outside, so even if accuracy is redundant, their damage is unaffected. 6,924th to 30 hunting, 13,394th to 30 summoning, 52,993rd to 30 DivinationKiln Record (Post-EoC): W 25 - L 0, 14 Uncut Onyx, 8 Jad hits received (Best record: Two in the same kiln)Obby set renewed post update #2: 0QBD drops: 21 crossbow parts, 3 Visages, 1 Kites, 2 KitsMax Port Score [2205] Achieved: 27th April 2013 (World 2nd) Farmyard Rampage ranking: 12th, 50,000 Kills. Dragon Pickaxe Drops: 1 (Times after I first entered Battlefield: 2h) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Maul is definately best chaotic atm, staff 2nd if you can't afford virtus wand :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpx Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition? Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort. I am surprised that you are unaware of an accuracy cap... The Chance to hit any monster is 100% (or whatever the game designer have put in, 99%, 95%, but the exact value does not matter in this discussion), regardless of how high your 'accuracy' is, this is true in every single thing under the sun, you cannot get more than 100% chance to hit. While accuracy is very closely linked to chance to hit, it is not a direct conversion (if it was, it would mean that low level players cannot hit anything with bronze weapons due to their accuracy being so low). Thus there must exist a point in that calculation where the resulting chance to hit on the monster has reached the cap (whether that is the absolute cap or the game cap), and any further accuracy increases beyond this point serve absolutely no purpose. Accuracy is a great thing to have, but once you hit that cap, it becomes the most useless stat to upgrade thereafter. I am pretty sure that chance to hit bosses will not hit the cap anytime soon without using the very best gear, the rest of RS is a completely different matter. If one can reliably hit stuff without missing their targets for any length of time using a lower tier magical weapon, then I find absolutely no point in getting a degradeable upgrade that yields no actual upgrade. Magic is unique in this regard that the weapon only provides accuracy and attack speed, while the damage itself is determined by the spell alone, which has no tie to the weapon. Melee and ranged upgrades will always be upgrades because their damage is based on themselves rather than something outside, so even if accuracy is redundant, their damage is unaffected.Accuracy never becomes useless unless your opponent has exactly 0 defense(and as far as i'm aware, no monster in rs does), you just have diminishing returns. Given that the best combat xp is gained now by fighting higher level monsters, the accuracy will almost certainly help. The thing to consider here is rather that a one handed magic weapon will be faster, thus you will be able to land more auto-attacks. With slow weapons like 2h's and the chaotic staff, most of your damage will be done by abilities alone, thus it would be advised to use a slightly less accurate 1h staff and a book when your opponent either has low hp or low defense(~>80% accuracy), or both. That and as ascribed above about the damage part is why magic is quite different from melee and ranged in EoC(and, I might add, has a distinct advantage). First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
121snake121 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Maul is great. CCB is a waste tbh, staff is pretty good, and the rest are inferior to drygore weapons, though make decent substitutes until the drygore weapons come down in price. -New Zealand's only snake. ~I do have a signature, I just can't be stuffed using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estoc Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition? Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort. I am surprised that you are unaware of an accuracy cap... The Chance to hit any monster is 100% (or whatever the game designer have put in, 99%, 95%, but the exact value does not matter in this discussion), regardless of how high your 'accuracy' is, this is true in every single thing under the sun, you cannot get more than 100% chance to hit. While accuracy is very closely linked to chance to hit, it is not a direct conversion (if it was, it would mean that low level players cannot hit anything with bronze weapons due to their accuracy being so low). Thus there must exist a point in that calculation where the resulting chance to hit on the monster has reached the cap (whether that is the absolute cap or the game cap), and any further accuracy increases beyond this point serve absolutely no purpose. Accuracy is a great thing to have, but once you hit that cap, it becomes the most useless stat to upgrade thereafter. I am pretty sure that chance to hit bosses will not hit the cap anytime soon without using the very best gear, the rest of RS is a completely different matter. If one can reliably hit stuff without missing their targets for any length of time using a lower tier magical weapon, then I find absolutely no point in getting a degradeable upgrade that yields no actual upgrade. Magic is unique in this regard that the weapon only provides accuracy and attack speed, while the damage itself is determined by the spell alone, which has no tie to the weapon. Melee and ranged upgrades will always be upgrades because their damage is based on themselves rather than something outside, so even if accuracy is redundant, their damage is unaffected.Accuracy never becomes useless unless your opponent has exactly 0 defense(and as far as i'm aware, no monster in rs does), you just have diminishing returns. Given that the best combat xp is gained now by fighting higher level monsters, the accuracy will almost certainly help. The thing to consider here is rather that a one handed magic weapon will be faster, thus you will be able to land more auto-attacks. With slow weapons like 2h's and the chaotic staff, most of your damage will be done by abilities alone, thus it would be advised to use a slightly less accurate 1h staff and a book when your opponent either has low hp or low defense(~>80% accuracy), or both. That and as ascribed above about the damage part is why magic is quite different from melee and ranged in EoC(and, I might add, has a distinct advantage). As far as I know, the most effective way to use magic is ability>ability>auto>repeat. This maximizes your attack speed (both will hit at the same rate), but a staff will add 2.5x damage for every auto attack making it more effective. From the empty days of hope, deny the darknessFollow my voice, we'll run far away from hereIf only to hide, to escape this lifeAnd live forever, forever in the sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xpx Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 You use abilities on the same tick as auto attacks(basically doing 2 attacks at once). The problem here is that for 6 tick weapons, abilities restore faster and thus ´´spamming´´ abilities is preferable over waiting 3.6 seconds for an auto attack. With 4 tick weapons, you can actually wait for the auto-attack and be effective. Thus shortbows and wand+book combos will always have an edge with more auto-attacks landed. First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guado Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition? Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort. I am surprised that you are unaware of an accuracy cap... The Chance to hit any monster is 100% (or whatever the game designer have put in, 99%, 95%, but the exact value does not matter in this discussion), regardless of how high your 'accuracy' is, this is true in every single thing under the sun, you cannot get more than 100% chance to hit. While accuracy is very closely linked to chance to hit, it is not a direct conversion (if it was, it would mean that low level players cannot hit anything with bronze weapons due to their accuracy being so low). Thus there must exist a point in that calculation where the resulting chance to hit on the monster has reached the cap (whether that is the absolute cap or the game cap), and any further accuracy increases beyond this point serve absolutely no purpose. Accuracy is a great thing to have, but once you hit that cap, it becomes the most useless stat to upgrade thereafter. I am pretty sure that chance to hit bosses will not hit the cap anytime soon without using the very best gear, the rest of RS is a completely different matter. If one can reliably hit stuff without missing their targets for any length of time using a lower tier magical weapon, then I find absolutely no point in getting a degradeable upgrade that yields no actual upgrade. Magic is unique in this regard that the weapon only provides accuracy and attack speed, while the damage itself is determined by the spell alone, which has no tie to the weapon. Melee and ranged upgrades will always be upgrades because their damage is based on themselves rather than something outside, so even if accuracy is redundant, their damage is unaffected.And that to me is Accuracy vs. Defence roll, not an invisible 'cap'. And vs. Defence, nothing's better than accuracy. Granted, you shouldn't upgrade a lvl 75 staff into a lvl 80 to kill goblins or farm unicows, but if you go anywhere over, like, level 140, you'll probably find it useful. That said, I have no factual evidence to backup what I'm claiming, and I'm open to being proven wrong and corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgmir Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share Posted January 28, 2013 So is the consensus that after maul, I should get the shields and staff only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggiwhplar Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Accuracy is one issue, but the chance to hit monsters is a completely separate one, it's no use have more accuracy if your chance to hit your desired monsters doesn't improve (IE is capped) by using a higher tier weapon.You're splitting accuracy from chance to hit monsters? Isn't that the very definition? Give me an example of where accuracy is capped please - I'm actually unaware of any thing of the sort. I am surprised that you are unaware of an accuracy cap... The Chance to hit any monster is 100% (or whatever the game designer have put in, 99%, 95%, but the exact value does not matter in this discussion), regardless of how high your 'accuracy' is, this is true in every single thing under the sun, you cannot get more than 100% chance to hit. While accuracy is very closely linked to chance to hit, it is not a direct conversion (if it was, it would mean that low level players cannot hit anything with bronze weapons due to their accuracy being so low). Thus there must exist a point in that calculation where the resulting chance to hit on the monster has reached the cap (whether that is the absolute cap or the game cap), and any further accuracy increases beyond this point serve absolutely no purpose. Accuracy is a great thing to have, but once you hit that cap, it becomes the most useless stat to upgrade thereafter. I am pretty sure that chance to hit bosses will not hit the cap anytime soon without using the very best gear, the rest of RS is a completely different matter. If one can reliably hit stuff without missing their targets for any length of time using a lower tier magical weapon, then I find absolutely no point in getting a degradeable upgrade that yields no actual upgrade. Magic is unique in this regard that the weapon only provides accuracy and attack speed, while the damage itself is determined by the spell alone, which has no tie to the weapon. Melee and ranged upgrades will always be upgrades because their damage is based on themselves rather than something outside, so even if accuracy is redundant, their damage is unaffected.Accuracy never becomes useless unless your opponent has exactly 0 defense(and as far as i'm aware, no monster in rs does), you just have diminishing returns. Given that the best combat xp is gained now by fighting higher level monsters, the accuracy will almost certainly help. The thing to consider here is rather that a one handed magic weapon will be faster, thus you will be able to land more auto-attacks. With slow weapons like 2h's and the chaotic staff, most of your damage will be done by abilities alone, thus it would be advised to use a slightly less accurate 1h staff and a book when your opponent either has low hp or low defense(~>80% accuracy), or both. That and as ascribed above about the damage part is why magic is quite different from melee and ranged in EoC(and, I might add, has a distinct advantage). I think the penance monsters in BA have 0 defense when using the correct attack style >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousepad Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 So is the consensus that after maul, I should get the shields and staff only? The other chaotics are by no means 'not worth it'. I for one cannot afford drygore weapons, nor have i finished the quests for a royal crossbow. If you don't mind the work for the tokens, don't feel like you are wasting them by getting the other chaotics as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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