MUST READ: Barrows breakthrough.

scruffman · February 9, 2006

well, i did abuot 30 trips just killing mellee brothers, nothing else, did not get a SINGLE death, mind, chaos or blood.

wo0t1 · February 9, 2006

No, i dont think this is right at all.

The brother drops a set rune. THen the KC determines how many you will get, 10 KC being most used.

I dont think KC actually cares what u killed

I got a kick out of this thread. Its always cool to listen to the theories and superstitions on how the chest works. Mine? I still use a wealth ring (even though Jagex said it doesn't matter) and I don't kill bloodworms (because the examine says "Better keep your distance") Hehe.

Let me talk about the facts, though.

What I have quoted is not accurate. The brothers drop either a "set" of minds, chaos, bloods, or deaths. This "set" is as below:

Minds - 360ish

Choas - 120ish

Deaths - 80ish

Bloods - 40ish

Bolt Racks - 35ish

The "ish" means its a random amount.. like the choas could be anywhere from 108 to 130, for instance.

The monsters below drop a small amount of coins, which also goes into the chest.

The kill count improves your chances of getting a better "set". So if your kill count is 6, you're more likely to get minds and choas. If your kill count is around 30, you're more likely to get bloods and bolt racks.

Also, I've been meaning to make a post on this, but I've been super busy.

THE KILL COUNT INCREASES YOUR CHANCES OF GETTING A BARROWS ITEM.

Yes, its true.

With 400 runs at a kill count of 10-20, I got an item in the chest in one in every 18 chests open, (always killing all six, which makes a difference too, per Jagex) as you all know from my Barrows Guide.

Well, lately, I've done another 300 runs with 20+ kill count every time, still killing all six, and I've averaged an item in every 12 chests. Thats a significant difference.

So, there you go. I will start doing runs now with over 30 kill count to see if that high of a number still makes a significant difference.

Keep in mind, if you're gonna do an experiment with kill count, you have to do A LOT OF RUNS for the numbers to be worth anything. The sample has to be large enough to prove anything. You can't go 10 times and make any conclusions. My 400 runs still has a large "margin of error" statistically speaking.

The expert has spoken. :P

ON TOPIC: The chest does not remember WHAT tunnel monsters you kill, only how many... and they only drop coins anyway.

i do 37 kc everytime(on random stuff) and for 53 times i got runes....

sk8ermaster · February 9, 2006

if your right..then wow

S77 · February 9, 2006

I always used the theory that the less time you are in the tunnel with the chest the better the drop

I got 5 kills, ran all the way to the chest in about half a minute (i got lucky and the door was close by). I got some gunthans.

Yet someone who was in tunnel for hours and days got only a few runes.

(btw third and last time iwent to barrows)

Y2g2003 · February 9, 2006

for the people who thinks that your loot is random i would say that nothing is random. computer itself don't have random movement of bytes therefore everything has some pattern. the more u dig the ebtter pattern u find.

every single open chest/droped rare item has to deal something with previuos your action, or another players actions.

and for those who thinks that keyword random () in java makes random number, they need to rethink most of their beleives

and leester is on something, just he needs to do more runs with more accurate KC, liek 21KC, 21KC and so on, 500-1000 runs with each setting. takes lot of time but then u have smaller error :)

First of all... what you said is completely false with regards to things being random. And using computers in general as an example is foolish, really.

Even if they use the known looting system that was vaguely explained in a very old letter to the Gods article... its still random.

Lemme try giving an example... what I'm saying probably isn't making much sense...

1.) Herb 1

2.) Mith Chain

3.) Uncut Sapphire

4.) Watermelon seed

5.) Steel Short Sword

Now if I killed a monster that had the above drop list... I would have about a 20% chance to get either of those items, yes? Just because you have a 20% probability of getting a Mith Chain... doesn't mean you will get it in five drops. The same goes for Barrows or anything that has something that isn't a constant. Therefore it is random.

If anything... the people who state that the Barrows are random really have a lot less to prove then anyone. All they have to do is kill the six brothers and leave it at that. If they get any type of rune at all... the theory is false. Seeing as though people have (including myself)... the theory is false.

His theory made perfect sense, but that doesn't mean that just because it made sense doesn't make it constantly right. And thus... if its only partically right... all signs point back to that one lovely word... RANDOM.

Kill count could determine the amount of runes you get, I wont even try to argue that point, but killing specific monsters obviously wont.

EDIT: To expand on the last sentence I said above... I ment to say that killing specific monsters wont determine what runes you will get. I feel that is random as well and that the kill count will only determine the quantity of the runes. Determining what runes and armors you get, however, I feel is totally random with maybe the kill count increasing chaces of getting the armor slightly better (though probably not by a large margin).

Panneto · February 9, 2006

Completely wrong.

I suggest you give up now because you way off ;)

And if you dont know me go check runescape community where ive had over 400 barrow drops, basically a drop ever 5 runs.

nvw08 · February 9, 2006

I always used the theory that the less time you are in the tunnel with the chest the better the drop

I got 5 kills, ran all the way to the chest in about half a minute (i got lucky and the door was close by). I got some gunthans.

Yet someone who was in tunnel for hours and days got only a few runes.

(btw third and last time iwent to barrows)

I dont think thats true. on my last run the first doo that i opened was my chest and i got probably the secon worst run ever :(

S77 · February 9, 2006

I always used the theory that the less time you are in the tunnel with the chest the better the drop

I got 5 kills, ran all the way to the chest in about half a minute (i got lucky and the door was close by). I got some gunthans.

Yet someone who was in tunnel for hours and days got only a few runes.

(btw third and last time iwent to barrows)

I dont think thats true. on my last run the first doo that i opened was my chest and i got probably the secon worst run ever :(

I mean, kill 5 of the brothers, hit the tunnel and run for the chest

Albosky · February 9, 2006

Dont take my word for it as my barrows experience is less then 20 runs total , ever.

but i did ten runs a week ago and only did the 6 brothers , got chaos , minds , and coins only everytime

killing skellies up to kill count 20 after the 6 brothers and deaths everytime so far (cant confirm exact quantity as i dont weigh and measure everything as thoroughly as some ) :)

remoteman · February 9, 2006

lol just my last trip i killed 6 bros's and 4 crypt rats (lvl 43) and i got 114 bloods and 72 death and 400odd chaos, so ure skeleton thing may not be entirley correct

Zonhottie · February 9, 2006

neat.. goo dluck to u

RAHK · February 9, 2006

To all you people telling me I'm crazy; Just because it hasn't been proven YET

doesn't mean that I can't prove it to be true.

And secondly, all further research is now cancelled. Computer lagged out

while fighting Karil, woke up in Falador missing about 4m in stuff. Don't

quite feel like it anymore. Sorry to anybody who was curious.

I don't think that many people saw this post but I for one would like to say that I am sorry to hear about your foul luck.

By the way, what is so hard to remember about my name lol? It's... four... letters... I'm just messing with ya. :D

I would like to tell you that while I DID kill mostly bloodworms I know that at least 25% were other types of creatures. Everytime that somebody passed through my room they spawned a creature that I ended up killing. Several times a switched rooms to see if I could get more kills an hour. I also made sure that I killed over 100 of each type just in case something like this came up.

I failed to mention the above since the thread died within hours of me posting the reward lol. I honestly didn't think that many people were interested but I logged on today and saw two threads mentioning my research. From my personal experience I would have to say that the monsters do not add anything to the chest because I recieved ONLY 6 of Leesters' previously mentioned "sets" and not a higher amount of ANYTHING. No large haul of runes, no bank-busting gp, and certainly not a Barrows item. :roll:

gunshafted · February 9, 2006

no man, thats not right...

bloodworms do drop bloods, the thing is barrows is based a lot on time.

if you kill, say a giant, and it drops natures?

well, if you dont pick up the natures, they will dissapear wont they? my hypothesis is that if you leave the chest for too long, items begin to decay, and eventually vanish just like outside of the chest.

p.s. the 10k kill count has been done half a dozen times before... and that was when people didnt think bloods dropped bloods, they just killed everything, and still got squat...

i didnt want to be a flamer, just putting in my part of the debate

RAHK · February 9, 2006

no man, thats not right...

bloodworms do drop bloods, the thing is barrows is based a lot on time.

if you kill, say a giant, and it drops natures?

well, if you dont pick up the natures, they will dissapear wont they? my hypothesis is that if you leave the chest for too long, items begin to decay, and eventually vanish just like outside of the chest.

p.s. the 10k kill count has been done half a dozen times before... and that was when people didnt think bloods dropped bloods, they just killed everything, and still got squat...

i didnt want to be a flamer, just putting in my part of the debate

Go to Barrows, Kill 1-100k Bloodworms and 0-1 Brothers and screeny how many blood runes you get. :roll:

No offense (honestly) but I really don't think that you have a lot of Barrows experience. If the chest "decayed" I would have gotten squat when I left a 12 KC for a month while I trained agility and fishing. I had killed all 6 brothers but the skeletons had forced a tele :oops: and I forgot all about it until returning. When I opened the chest after killing nothing else I got the standard runes and gp garbage (as usual) plus a loop half.

Anywho, I do not think that this thread really applies anymore since Indalecio is no longer able to test this. =\

ahs_student · February 9, 2006

I've been doing barrows for yonks now, when you kill bloodworms you get bloodrunes

deucedeuce22 · February 9, 2006

No, i dont think this is right at all.

The brother drops a set rune. THen the KC determines how many you will get, 10 KC being most used.

I dont think KC actually cares what u killed

I got a kick out of this thread. Its always cool to listen to the theories and superstitions on how the chest works. Mine? I still use a wealth ring (even though Jagex said it doesn't matter) and I don't kill bloodworms (because the examine says "Better keep your distance") Hehe.

Let me talk about the facts, though.

What I have quoted is not accurate. The brothers drop either a "set" of minds, chaos, bloods, or deaths. This "set" is as below:

Minds - 360ish

Choas - 120ish

Deaths - 80ish

Bloods - 40ish

Bolt Racks - 35ish

The "ish" means its a random amount.. like the choas could be anywhere from 108 to 130, for instance.

The monsters below drop a small amount of coins, which also goes into the chest.

The kill count improves your chances of getting a better "set". So if your kill count is 6, you're more likely to get minds and choas. If your kill count is around 30, you're more likely to get bloods and bolt racks.

Also, I've been meaning to make a post on this, but I've been super busy.

THE KILL COUNT INCREASES YOUR CHANCES OF GETTING A BARROWS ITEM.

Yes, its true.

With 400 runs at a kill count of 10-20, I got an item in the chest in one in every 18 chests open, (always killing all six, which makes a difference too, per Jagex) as you all know from my Barrows Guide.

Well, lately, I've done another 300 runs with 20+ kill count every time, still killing all six, and I've averaged an item in every 12 chests. Thats a significant difference.

So, there you go. I will start doing runs now with over 30 kill count to see if that high of a number still makes a significant difference.

Keep in mind, if you're gonna do an experiment with kill count, you have to do A LOT OF RUNS for the numbers to be worth anything. The sample has to be large enough to prove anything. You can't go 10 times and make any conclusions. My 400 runs still has a large "margin of error" statistically speaking.

The expert has spoken. :P

ON TOPIC: The chest does not remember WHAT tunnel monsters you kill, only how many... and they only drop coins anyway.

As much of an "expert" you might think you are.....Your theory on "sets" of runes is way off. I dont get KC unless Im leeching for the next run, so very rarely do I go over a 15 KC, in your theory, I would be getting a lot more minds and chaos then I actually do. Ive never been a fan of KC, and Ive always been the first one to point out that it doesnt matter in the chest. Take the morons who always said that killing bloodworms and skeletons improved your chances for half keys and drag meds...even though they never could show proof of it. I also am one to wear ring of wealth, even though its not supposed to affect the brothers drops...what else are you going to put there? Maybe a seers ring, but in all reality ring of wealth is your only choice. I did 7 trips yesterday, never getting over 15 KC:

I take the same gear ever single time (21 prayer pots, 112 shark, 750 death 3k mind) I got positive death runes, which is admittedly rare on a short run like this, and bloods 6 of the 7. I actually lost mind runes. And 2 items, (on trips 1 and 3 if it matters). I have other screen shots that follow in similar lines.

I average an item every 4-6 opens, and its been like this for ages. I havent had a huge streak of no items for the longest time (ie. if I go for my usual run of 21 prayer pots, I will come out with 3-5 items. The luck comes in what items I get.

Just take everything as it is, randomized luck. Do Barrows as you see fit, people should stop trying to figure things out that arent there. The useful information out of Leesters post is that the brothers drop specific number of runes or bolt racks for their drops, which I knew but never got around to figuring out the exact numbers of it. What works for you may not work for other people, so take all Barrows "facts" at face value.

Sy_Accursed · February 9, 2006

i've had deaths and blood from killing only the brother previously

Leesters · February 9, 2006

And if you dont know me go check runescape community where ive had over 400 barrow drops, basically a drop ever 5 runs.

Your credibility is shot. A barrows item every five runs?? :roll:

Leesters · February 9, 2006

As much of an "expert" you might think you are.....Your theory on "sets" of runes is way off.

The useful information out of Leesters post is that the brothers drop specific number of runes or bolt racks for their drops, which I knew but never got around to figuring out the exact numbers of it. What works for you may not work for other people, so take all Barrows "facts" at face value.

Hmm.. I think you misunderstood.

The "theory" I talk about when I say higher kill count improves your "chances" of getting better runs from chest is confirmed by Jagex. At least it was when we were getting the querry response.

And, yeah, it never guarantees anything, still random, but I think the odds are affected slightly by kill count.

I've killed 20 kill count and still gotten nothing but minds. Just bad luck. But overall, after many many runs, I get more bloods with a higher kill count. Overall, after many many runs, I get more minds with a lower kill count. So it makes sense.

RAHK · February 9, 2006

And if you dont know me go check runescape community where ive had over 400 barrow drops, basically a drop ever 5 runs.

Your credibility is shot. A barrows item every five runs?? :roll:

Well technically this guy CAN get better but averages the same:

I average an item every 4-6 opens, and its been like this for ages.

I am sorry to say that this is a mathmatical impossibility unless you have a magic number. :roll:

deucedeuce22 · February 10, 2006

And if you dont know me go check runescape community where ive had over 400 barrow drops, basically a drop ever 5 runs.

Your credibility is shot. A barrows item every five runs?? :roll:

Well technically this guy CAN get better but averages the same:

I average an item every 4-6 opens, and its been like this for ages.

I am sorry to say that this is a mathmatical impossibility unless you have a magic number. :roll:

Did I say I have a magic number? I dont get the exact same KC every single time, it varies from 10-15 depending on how much I need to leech for the next run. If you are going to say something stupid at least back it up. This whole "mathematical impossibility" line doesnt really fly. Nothing in rune is a "mathematical impossibility" since drops deal with odds. Odds arent always exact and precise and neat.

Come with me sometime. I dont do trips very often, so in all reality its not as great as it sounds, but I assure you that this is completely true. I might go every few days, for a few trips at a time. I dont claim to have gotten "over 400 items", one every 5 trips. Just because some people have greater luck at Barrows doesnt mean you can question their results. Everything in this game is based on a set of odds, sometimes you just beat the odds more often then not. Ive never had a drag med or half shield drop either, am I lying about that too??? Eventually my run of Barrows luck will end, but its been a great ride while I still have it. Do I need to start screenshotting everything....I think my credibility on these boards is pretty sound. I can post my last three trips if that would help any, but I have the feeling people are so set in their ways theyd think I faked them.

Do you not realize that Abyssal whips are dropped on a timer? Ask most lvl 85 slayers, they can tell you for a fact that whips will drop at certain times of the day far more often. And while Im not saying Barrows operates like this, there is definite precedent that certain times of the day affect certain drops.

As for the KC affecting which sets of runes you end up with, thats never been the case with me. But as I posted at the end, its all randomized luck, and what works for some may not work for others. Stop trying to figure out things that probably arent there, and just do Barrows the way you like, how you like, and be happy with whatever rewards might come your way :)

RAHK · February 10, 2006

And if you dont know me go check runescape community where ive had over 400 barrow drops, basically a drop ever 5 runs.

Your credibility is shot. A barrows item every five runs?? :roll:

Well technically this guy CAN get better but averages the same:

I average an item every 4-6 opens, and its been like this for ages.

I am sorry to say that this is a mathmatical impossibility unless you have a magic number. :roll:

Did I say I have a magic number? I dont get the exact same KC every single time, it varies from 10-15 depending on how much I need to leech for the next run. If you are going to say something stupid at least back it up. This whole "mathematical impossibility" line doesnt really fly. Nothing in rune is a "mathematical impossibility" since drops deal with odds. Odds arent always exact and precise and neat.

Come with me sometime. I dont do trips very often, so in all reality its not as great as it sounds, but I assure you that this is completely true. I might go every few days, for a few trips at a time. I dont claim to have gotten "over 400 items", one every 5 trips. Just because some people have greater luck at Barrows doesnt mean you can question their results. Everything in this game is based on a set of odds, sometimes you just beat the odds more often then not. Ive never had a drag med or half shield drop either, am I lying about that too??? Eventually my run of Barrows luck will end, but its been a great ride while I still have it. Do I need to start screenshotting everything....I think my credibility on these boards is pretty sound. I can post my last three trips if that would help any, but I have the feeling people are so set in their ways theyd think I faked them.

Do you not realize that Abyssal whips are dropped on a timer? Ask most lvl 85 slayers, they can tell you for a fact that whips will drop at certain times of the day far more often. And while Im not saying Barrows operates like this, there is definite precedent that certain times of the day affect certain drops.

As for the KC affecting which sets of runes you end up with, thats never been the case with me. But as I posted at the end, its all randomized luck, and what works for some may not work for others. Stop trying to figure out things that probably arent there, and just do Barrows the way you like, how you like, and be happy with whatever rewards might come your way :)

I do not know whether or not you tell the truth or lie as a general thing. I do not know if you are "trusted" here or anywhere. I do not know ANYTHING about abyssal whip drops.

What I DO know is you either lied or exaggerated greatly your barrows "prowess" (not meant as an insult. I just can't think of a better word, sorry :oops: ). How do I know this? Like a said: math. You claim an item to chest ratio of 1 in 4-6 which has held steady for "ages". From what I have seen the AVERAGE barrows item/chest ratio is 1 in 15-25. This means that you are at least three times as lucky as the best AVERAGE barrower. Lets assume that this is true when you went the first 4-6 times. The likelyhood that you could do a repeat performance is significantly lower the more times that you attempt it. If you have truly been going for "ages" then the odds that you could hold an average over three times of that of your peers for many months is astrinomical.

If you (I doubt it because you sound quite intelligent) or anyone reading this doesn't get what I am saying I would like to make an example that is much more likely but still nearly impossible:

Say that you and three others were dealt a deck of cards. The chances that you would get a card of a certain suit, say spades, is 13/52 because there are 52 cards available and 13 of those cards are "good" (aka barrows items). The chances that you would have a single good run (remember you claim at least 3 times the average of others) is 13/52 or 25%. The more times that you get items in this manner (1 in 4-6) is comparitively the same as getting spades dealt to you in a single hand. If you do exceptionally well once it is not that unlikely but the more times that you claim those same results consecuitively the smaller and smaller the chance of getting a spade (barrows item). To get 13 spades dealt to you is a rough equivalent of a 3x items to chest ratio for "ages". Guess what the chances of 13 spades being dealt to one person? One in 635,013,559,600.

While the numbers themselves OBVIOUSLY do not translate from my example to your situation the IDEA that the longer the favorable condition repeatedly shows itself the smaller the chances are that repetition continues. If I wasn't so dang stupid from lack of sleep I would be able to remember a more consice answer.

You stated that RS2 is based on odds. Well guess what: the odds of you telling the truth (with exaggeration being considered a lie here) are minute.

The magic number bit was a reference to an earlier post. What I meant by that is this: unless you have figured out how to increase your odds by at least three times you can't possibly be telling the truth.

While I agree with your logic that TECHNICALLY anything is possible when it comes to odds and random occurences and you COULD be telling the truth I would have to point out that realisticly it is in essence impossible.

I also agree with your jaded view on "no pic, no proof" because we both know how easy it is to fake things. It would have been nice if it popped up a list of exactly what you recieved on a very intricate background. At least it would prevent the most obvious of fakes.

PS- My main reason for posting that was to point out to Leesters that there was another claiming the same average. Tell me what you think the odds that your claim is valid (as in: what are the chances that someone repeatedly outperformed their peers by at least three times for as long as you claim?)

Don_Tino_Ome · February 10, 2006

nope, i only kill bloodsworms, and like half the trips i get 41 blood runes (no RoW)

jimbobjoe · February 10, 2006

when barrows was first released the first few weeks I went. I made 30m+ then lost most in wild :( But i got an item every 3 trips about and i killed all 6 bros and 4 blood worms :)

Good luck on ur studys too

indalecio · February 15, 2006

Sorry, now reviving this post. Going to try and get some more money and return to barrows.

Anyway, for those people saying I'm totally crazy, or the few people who actually

called me Stupid! ... Well, I have a 163 IQ. My brain makes correlations like

this while I sleep for God's sake. But for the people who just can't believe anything without hard evidence,

once I return to barrows I'll force so many numbers down your throats that ...

You will ...

Choke to death on them I guess. You get the point. For people with case-sensitive brains,

skip this next part.

I WAS ALWAYS WILLING TO LISTEN TO YOUR THEORIES! I ALWAYS HAD

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM TO OFFER, ALWAYS HAD MY OWN COUNTER

THEORIES. I ALWAYS HAD HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS AND COMMENTS OF

ENCOURAGEMENT TO HELP YOU ALONG WITH YOUR RESEARCH, ESPECIALLY IN THE AREA OF BARROWS.

*I WONT ASK YOU NOT TO SAY SOMETHING WHICH ISN'T NICE, BUT I WILL ASK YOU NOT TO SAY SOMETHING

WHICH ISN'T CONSTRUCTIVE*.

When will you humans realize that your ... emotions ... will only get

in the way of BIG CASH PAY-OFFS!?

MUST READ: Barrows breakthrough.

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