.

[Ember]

.

[sees_all1]

I think we need to create a federal knife registry, ban all knives longer than 14 inches or weighing more than 7 ounces. We need to ban all knives made with ceramic blades, and those having holes in the handle for lanyards. We also need to ban pocket knives with more than 12 functions. We should also limit knife holders to 7 spaces, I can't think of anyone who needs more than 7 knives unless they have a nefarious purpose, in which case we need to jail them. This won't prevent stabbings like the recent one in Texas, but it will assuage our collective guilt and make it seem like we care. It'll also allow us to demonize our political opponents. Just remember, if we can save just one finger it'll have been worth it.

[nine naked men]

i think we need to ban posters who use shitty strawman arguments that were played out last year

[RpgGamer]

An "assault" weapon is just a name the media tagged guns to scare people. All weapons are just weapons and trying to regulate the functionality of them for civilian use is not a good idea. Something can be said for the US's desire to give Libya guns to rebel against their evil government, but then they try to take their own civilian's guns away. While I don't want every civilian to have a gun, I do believe that it's our right to bear arms (and arm bears ;) )

[Ginger_Warrior]

Oh [bleep]ing hell, I honestly didn't mean or even want one off-hand post in the "Today..." thread to evolve into (yet another) thread on firearms regulation.

[Estonian dude]

Americans and your stupid gun-obsession.

Create a federal registry for ALL guns and regulate ALL sales.

Why do you need one anyway? If my assaulter doesn't have a gun (and in here, 99% don't have guns), I don't need a gun. I can manage otherwise.

[Giordano]

Create a federal registry for ALL guns and regulate ALL sales.

 

This is what we need to do. No point in making new laws if the current ones aren't being enforced. Then we can talk about magazine size, ammo type, etc.

[sees_all1]

Create a federal registry for ALL guns and regulate ALL sales.

It takes one idiot in the government or one hacktivist to publish the names and addresses of EVERYONE in the registry.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/12/26/outrage-after-new-york-paper-posts-map-of-gun-owners-names-and-addresses/

 

Then you put these law abiding citizens at risk by letting all the criminals out there - the one's that aren't allowed to buy guns - targets to steal from.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/17/weapons-stolen-from-ny-home-gun-owner-named-on-journal-news-website/

 

All of a sudden you've created a much bigger problem. The law abiding citizens comply, the criminals don't and you've done nothing to curb violence but you've endangered an entire class of legal citizens.

 

 

I think the Federal Government would do much better to enforce the laws they have already, as well as stop arming the Mexican drug cartels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

[Estonian dude]

You have way too many guns in the arms of civilians. There is no easy solution to your gun problem.

There would be no problem releasing all the names who have guns here in Estonia. Guns don't keep a burglar away, locks do. And in here, only one in like 20 people has a gun. Whereas you have 88 guns per 100 people...

[Blake]

Locks are relatively easy to get into.

 

If guns were illegal, there would be an illegal market for them just like there is for drugs, and then only criminals would have them.

 

More regulation should be fine, banning them wouldn't.

 

Also, you can stop with your "You American's and your stupid..." posts you always have.

[Randox]

After looking around a bit, I am finding it harder to side against guns. Homicides with guns are pretty much plummeting, and have been since around the mid nineties. No one has been able to find a common link between the people who commit shooting sprees, other than depression tends to be pretty common in school shootings, so there is really no way right now to predict who would be at risk.

 

If you look at suicide stats, you also have to wonder what is going on at all, since suicide by gun absolutely dwarfs homicide (accounting for more than 60% of gun fatalities). We know from experience that making suicide marginally more inconvenient causes suicide rates to plummet, and that most people who are talked down from a suicide attempt never try again. In other words, we know that if the suicide victims hadn't owned guns, probably 80-90% of them would have never killed themselves. It also means that if you'r going to die from being shot, roughly 2:1 odds are it's the gun you own, and you'll be the one pulling the trigger.

 

Oh, and Canada already went ahead and proved that gun registries are a fantastic waste of everyone's time and money for you, and Canada isn't exactly known to be brimming with guns. This is not an idea that is likely to get better as you scale it up.

 

 

Also, as cold as it sounds, school shootings are like the tiniest blip in gun violence you can find (and I am picking on them because they generally drive the gun debate), right after 'people who accidentally shot their nuts off' (though if people keep guns in their wasteband as much as movies suggest, that number is probably higher annually at least some years). Reason would suggest tackling problems in order of significance, and things like going after assault rifles and trying to tailor laws to stop school shootings is totally backwards to that. These are the smallest problems. The largest is suicide, the second is almost certainly gang murders, then your homicides related to illegal activity but not gangs, and then everything else of which school shootings are a sliver.

 

You're looking at a little over 6,000 homicides a year in the States (by guns), and more than 12,000 suicides. It's possible there are more important parts of the issue that need consideration.

[Omar]

Guns don't keep a burglar away, locks do.

Yes, and the police uses locks to fight crime, not guns.

 

There would be no problem releasing all the names who have guns here in Estonia.

Yeah there would. You know who would have a problem with it? Every single person who was told their name wouldn't be released.

[Alg]

Guns don't keep a burglar away, locks do.

Eh? There have been quite a few burglaries in my neighborhood recently, and as far as I can tell we tend to be pretty good about locking doors (and more. Lots of high-end security systems) :huh:.

 

At least one (The one in the house directly next door to me) involved the prospective burglars breaking the windows to get in.

[Randox]

Locks keep honest people out of your house.

 

However, most people also try not to rob a house when people are home, because a good way to avoid jail time is to not be caught in the act.

 

 

But I would think that unless your house is constructed entirely out of concrete and steel plates,you would have to be crazy to risk starting a gun fight in your own house. At best, your house now has holes in it. At worst, you or other members of your family have now been shot because gypsum hardly even qualifies as bullet resistant. If you shoot them, then you now get to fight a second degree or attempted murder charge, which even assuming you successfully get ruled as self defense, still is going to mess up your life a lot more than dealing with your insurance company, unless your insurance company is the triads.

 

As a curiosity, is it actually legal to defend your property with lethal force in the states?

[sees_all1]

As a curiosity, is it actually legal to defend your property with lethal force in the states?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

[jasignhagj]

It is also somewhat legal to defend your property with lethal force in Canada, if you feel your life or the life of another occupant is in danger. A man recently won a court case here where he used a legally owned gun to chase away armed attackers. The main case against him was that he had his weapon loaded and unlocked, but he was able to prove that he unlocked the gun and loaded it after noticing the intruders.

 

As for gun control itself, I feel it is unnecessary, ineffective, and intrudes on the basic freedoms of the public. Things like the AWB are the worst offenders in my eyes, the fact that two mini-14s that are identical in all ways but cosmetically can have a different legal status is ridiculous. Same with magazine cap bans, 30 is the standard for a lot of rifles, and anything over 30 is probably what you want a mass shooter to use because of how unreliable they are. In Canada it is illegal to own a centrefire rifle magazine with a capacity of more than 5 rounds. However this law is incredibly ineffective because you can purchase a 30 round mag pinned at 5 rounds, legally own it, then unpin it to commit a crime. You can also purchase .50 beowulf magazines and legally fill them with 15 rounds of .223.

 

Universal background checks seem like a logical solution in the US, although the fact that they will make private sales expensive and more difficult is an issue. I am also a fan of Canada's permit system, which stops idiots from impulse buying guns with no knowledge of how to use them. Stay away from a registry though, it proved to be an ineffective mess up here, and repealing it is one of the few things I agree with that Harper has done.

 

The easiest way to stop gun violence in the US would be to end the war on drugs. Take away the main source of income for gangs, use the money saved to focus on jobs and education, and you will see gun violence drop dramatically.

[Estonian dude]

I just read through the whole Estonian gun law. It is pretty long, but it explains EVERYTHING.

For example, to have a collection of guns one must obtain a permit to start collecting weapons from police. And one cannot collect anything that is not allowed for civilian use.

Guns must be carried concealed and unloaded.

Anyone that wants to get a real gun must be 21+ or must be through conscription.

Anyone who wants to get a permit to get a gun must go through medical background check.

Gun permit is only valid for 5 years after which it must be renewed. New background check, medical check, everything. And it is forbidden to own any kind of firearm whatsoever without a gun permit. And gun permits are valid for 1 per gun.

Civilians cannot own more than 100 bullets of live ammunition at a time.

A gun must be kept in a gun locker at all times when not being worn.

There is one common registry for ALL civilian AND governmental firearms. Every single gun that spends more than 7 days in the country must be registered in there.

We have never had a single school shootout and we have no shootouts of any kind really. Maybe once a year and then all the media is on back legs about restricting gun ownership even further. And frankly I don't know a single person who would like less regulations on guns.

[Z_Berenice]

This can easily make up a 100+ pages thread and people will still disagree even with the most basic things...

 

But then again, I like to use proper examples and in this case I'll use my own experience. I was raised on a gun-friendly family, was taught how to shoot when I was 5 just like the rest of my siblings, I have a Sig Sauer 1911, a beretta 92fs, a glock 21, a KSG shotgun, and a Sig 522... (among other family treassures that aren't exclusively mine). Not a single accident (or in any other gun-friendly family that I know of). Was I forced to use them at some point? Yes, 3 times, otherwise it would've been the police calling the mortuary to send some bags...

 

I live in Panama, gun laws are somewhat similar here except for a couple of things. For example, there are two permits: possession and carry. You get your possession permit when you buy a gun. When you go buy a gun, they open up a "page" in which you can register up to 10 guns, if you excel that number, a new one is created and so on (there's no limit to how many guns you can have), then you gotta leave a dna sample, wait 2-3 weeks, your barrel gets registered aswell (if you ever change it you gotta go register the new one, no limit here either), in the 2-3 weeks period you gotta pass a psychiatric exam, and some other minor things, all of this is done by the dealer and the police. You can order whatever the hell you want through the dealer, the only limitation is that you can't "have" completely automatic weapons, but the law doesn't forbid you from turning them yourself. For the carry permit you gotta pass yet another psychiatric test and gotta have a reason, the most common one being self defense.

 

People with any sort of mental disorder aren't allowed to have weapons, and if you live with someone with a mental disorder you gotta lock your weapons in a safe, you're allowed carry permits but it is somewhat extremely regulated (most of the time people who live with others with mental disorders don't have carry permits at all). This also applies to people with certain syndromes such as aspergers.

 

Now, the funny thing is, we've never had school shootings or any sort of massacre that involved the use of registered/legal weapons. In fact, there's not a single record of any sort of incident involving the use of legal arms, hell there's only a handful of incidents that happened with guns stolen from legal owners (and guess who saves you here? that's right, that register you did when you bought that gun and you were smart enough to report the gun as stolen the moment it happened)... Sure, shootings do happen, but who's the shooter? Some guy who god knows how he got that weapon... There is violence like in any other country, but it rarely ever goes beyond the class barrier; there are dangerous places where dangerous shootings happen with illegaly obtained guns, like in any other country... and why do they happen there? because when they try to do so on another place, they'll find the end of a shotgun barrel pointing at them yelling "get the [bleep] out of my property...". Now, this violence has a reason that's completely off topic (drug lords, trafficking, etc...) so that's another subject, the thing is that you get to defend yourself...

 

Now, sadly, Panama doesn't have the same level of gun culture the U.S. has, sure people do get guns, but they mostly get shotguns and revolvers, and it works for them. For me, well I like semis just because they're easier to shoot (at least for me), but I do keep a shotgun very close to my living room (most centered place on my whole house). Now, I would be extremely pissed off if someone tries to take my guns just because some drug dealer shot another drug dealer with ilegal guns, or just because some other idiot decided it was a good idea to shoot a mall full of people... I can completely understand the frustation of gun owners in the U.S.... getting the blame just because they chose to have a way to defend themselves... And I guess it must be even more frustating when the people trying to disarm you can't even tell the difference between calibers...

 

 

As for the 3 times I had to use my guns, it doesn't end nicely so I might just skip them, but I guess anyone interested enough is allowed to ask.

[Omar]

And frankly I don't know a single person who would like less regulations on guns.

Stockholm syndrome is enough to show this to be irrelevant. Also, Finland's population is about 5.3M,i.e 1.6% that of the US. You're surprised shootings are so rare?

[obfuscator]

I used to be extremely pro gun control. However, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that gun control is a band-aid solution to a complicated problem, and a bad one at that.

 

The majority of people don't strictly need guns, I suppose. But they have their uses...and I don't think the government does a very good job at restricting them past a certain point.

[Omar]

Used to be in the same position too.

[Estonian dude]

Omar, why did you get Finland involved? And in there they had a school shooting just a few years back. Our media was talking about it for months.

But I quite like the Panaman system. We have it somewhat similar here.

And the main problem with you Americans is that you have no federal laws regarding firearms use. My classmate who was in the US for a year told me how he could just go to the local Wal-Mart and buy a gun if he had enough money. He was in a Southern state, but still I think some sort of a background check should be in place.

[sees_all1]

And the main problem with you Americans is that you have no federal laws regarding firearms use. My classmate who was in the US for a year told me how he could just go to the local Wal-Mart and buy a gun if he had enough money. He was in a Southern state, but still I think some sort of a background check should be in place.

Use? Or Sale? Or Possession?

There are federal laws on firearms.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ut/psn/documents/guncard.pdf

[Omar]

Omar, why did you get Finland involved? And in there they had a school shooting just a few years back. Our media was talking about it for months.

But I quite like the Panaman system. We have it somewhat similar here.

And the main problem with you Americans is that you have no federal laws regarding firearms use. My classmate who was in the US for a year told me how he could just go to the local Wal-Mart and buy a gun if he had enough money. He was in a Southern state, but still I think some sort of a background check should be in place.

Lol, how to confuse Scandinavian states. In any case, this only strenghtens my point--you have less than 0.5% of the population of the US instead of whatever I said.

I have no opinion on the matter, but why do you think gun laws should be federal? If you believe in democracy, you'd expect the smaller the level of government, the more reflective of preferences laws are, no?

[Estonian dude]

Guns are such a lethal and dangerous items that I believe they should be completely controlled by the government.

In honesty, if it was mine to do, I would ban all firearms altogether from civilian use. Seriously. I cannot imagine a situation where I would need one. There are always other ways. Only allowed would be certified hunting and sporting weapons. And they would have special requirements for storage and possession. Complete background checks to anyone who has access to them.

But I know I will be in a minority here. And I know I am somewhat radical in my views and there is nothing you can say to change my mind.