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Missing, Presumed Death


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And the World Guardian is inherently a 'good' role. Because it's a role that Guthix created and defined. Guthix defines anyone willing to respect the natural balance of the world (free from godlike interference or undue power) as good.

The balance of the natural world isn't good or bad though. It just is, and maintaining it in times of strife could lead to some bad decisions later down the line in order to maintain that balance.

 

To sort of jump back a few posts before, I think Icthlarin's choice of side is a lot of what Guthixians would have chosen. The best way at that time, to the best of our knowledge, was to get them to not play Sliske's game. A deadly contest for the Stone of Jas, regardless if it was really on the table, is one of the quickest way to disrupt the natural balance of the world. So even though novices might not be able to choose Guthixian, I think once they reach that point of learning what happened during TWW, it will put the choice you're guided to originally (icthlarin) into perspective.

 

 

By 'good' all I mean is something that the person in question would 'approve of'. Guthix is the person in question, and he definitely spends his life desiring a balanced world, and as such that's something he would approve of and find good. 

 

 

Could Sliske be part of that balance though? Maybe a sort of anti-player character? 2 World Guardians in balance. I don't know. Ultimately though I don't think it makes sense that Guthix would allow a new God to be born from his death. He wanted mortals to rule themselves but I don't think he would have knowingly put another obstacle in their way. I think if he wanted to die without creating a new god he could have probably fixed that sword and killed himself, or had us do it once we became World Guardian. Unless there was something else going on, Sliske seems like the last person Guthix should have allowed to kill him. 

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And the World Guardian is inherently a 'good' role. Because it's a role that Guthix created and defined. Guthix defines anyone willing to respect the natural balance of the world (free from godlike interference or undue power) as good.

The balance of the natural world isn't good or bad though. It just is, and maintaining it in times of strife could lead to some bad decisions later down the line in order to maintain that balance.

 

To sort of jump back a few posts before, I think Icthlarin's choice of side is a lot of what Guthixians would have chosen. The best way at that time, to the best of our knowledge, was to get them to not play Sliske's game. A deadly contest for the Stone of Jas, regardless if it was really on the table, is one of the quickest way to disrupt the natural balance of the world. So even though novices might not be able to choose Guthixian, I think once they reach that point of learning what happened during TWW, it will put the choice you're guided to originally (icthlarin) into perspective.

 

 

By 'good' all I mean is something that the person in question would 'approve of'. Guthix is the person in question, and he definitely spends his life desiring a balanced world, and as such that's something he would approve of and find good. 

 

 

Could Sliske be part of that balance though? Maybe a sort of anti-player character? 2 World Guardians in balance. I don't know. Ultimately though I don't think it makes sense that Guthix would allow a new God to be born from his death. He wanted mortals to rule themselves but I don't think he would have knowingly put another obstacle in their way. I think if he wanted to die without creating a new god he could have probably fixed that sword and killed himself, or had us do it once we became World Guardian. Unless there was something else going on, Sliske seems like the last person Guthix should have allowed to kill him. 

 

 

Guthix was sleeping. When Sliske entered the place, the alarms were triggered, and Guthix awoke. Guthix wasn't really planning to die beforehand (though he did want it), but now he saw an opportunity present itself to him, he quickly decided, and so he took it. That's my understanding of the events currently. 

 

Sliske is not and cannot be part of the balance. For thousands of years, he has served one god or another; either that or he has secretly been planning to ascend to godhood himself. This is NOT balancing behavior (as defined by Guthix). We know that Sliske is a) either serving Zaros, or b) intending to be a god himself. He is also trying to initiate the next God Wars (something Guthix detested, as it ravaged two worlds [Naragi homeworld, and Gelinor], and even obliterated his people). None of these actions are things a Guthixian would do. So, no, he can't be part of the balance.

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The return of the God Wars is inevitable. The most you can hope to do is set the rules at this point which might require pro-active action. We don't actually know Sliske's motivations at all or what he's been trying to do this whole time, just that he's been plotting something. Who knows, Sliske might view being immune to God Powers is a better deal than becoming a God and being one of the weaker ones. Guthix apparently never knew anything of Zaros, So would he even know that Sliske served a specific God?

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The return of the God Wars is inevitable. The most you can hope to do is set the rules at this point which might require pro-active action. We don't actually know Sliske's motivations at all or what he's been trying to do this whole time, just that he's been plotting something. Who knows, Sliske might view being immune to God Powers is a better deal than becoming a God and being one of the weaker ones. Guthix apparently never knew anything of Zaros, So would he even know that Sliske served a specific God?

 

It was not necessarily inevitable. It was true that gods, upon their return, would try to seek control, but a God War is a completely destructive, devastating, and full mobilization of one's forces. That certainly wasn't inevitable. The Gods could have tried seeking dominance through one-on-one battles (like the BoL). If Saradomin had, for instance, been able to kill Zamorak there, he may have been able to force Bandos and Armadyl (being much weaker gods) to simply submit to his will rather than be destroyed. So there were plenty of options aside from a God War, and even the Gods in the quest dialogue seem to share this assumption (as evidenced by their hesitance at Sliske's plan).

 

As for rules. Sliske hasn't set any rules. He has proposed a free-for-all brawl, the most chaotic thing he could possibly do. So chaotic that even the other gods are totally weary of it and outright refuse Sliske during Missing/Presumed Death.

 

Also, Guthix may not have known about Zaros' history, but it seems probable that once he knew Sliske was there to kill him, it was either to a) steal his power or, b) break the edicts (the only two possible reasons for someone trying to kill Guthix). Also, Guthix was aware of everything that happened within the resting place, and Sliske certainly reveals the Zarosian faction's views to the player (that they want to persuade Guthix to bring Zaros back), so Guthix would have overheard that and been made aware that Sliske was serving some god named Zaros, even if Guthix didn't know anything about Zaros specifically. So, Guthix knew. Guthix was aware that a bunch of zealots were charging through his resting place in order to kill him.

 

Also, again, the point isn't what Sliske would want. It's what Guthix would want. Guthix would not offer a Guardianship to a shifty figure navigating through his resting place with the Staff of Armadyl in order to kill him.

 

Your theory is based on pure conjecture (that Sliske would want immunity rather than godhood -- and if that's true, how would he even know that this was a possible offer? As far as I am aware, only the player, in his moments alone with Guthix, is told what power he is recieving, it's certainly not something anyone knows before this).

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The return of the God Wars is inevitable. The most you can hope to do is set the rules at this point which might require pro-active action. We don't actually know Sliske's motivations at all or what he's been trying to do this whole time, just that he's been plotting something. Who knows, Sliske might view being immune to God Powers is a better deal than becoming a God and being one of the weaker ones. Guthix apparently never knew anything of Zaros, So would he even know that Sliske served a specific God?

 

It was not necessarily inevitable. It was true that gods, upon their return, would try to seek control, but a God War is a completely destructive, devastating, and full mobilization of one's forces. That certainly wasn't inevitable. The Gods could have tried seeking dominance through one-on-one battles (like the BoL). If Saradomin had, for instance, been able to kill Zamorak there, he may have been able to force Bandos and Armadyl (being much weaker gods) to simply submit to his will rather than be destroyed. So there were plenty of options aside from a God War, and even the Gods in the quest dialogue seem to share this assumption (as evidenced by their hesitance at Sliske's plan).

 

As for rules. Sliske hasn't set any rules. He has proposed a free-for-all brawl, the most chaotic thing he could possibly do. So chaotic that even the other gods are totally weary of it and outright refuse Sliske during Missing/Presumed Death.

 

Also, Guthix may not have known about Zaros' history, but it seems probable that once he knew Sliske was there to kill him, it was either to a) steal his power or, b) break the edicts (the only two possible reasons for someone trying to kill Guthix). Also, Guthix was aware of everything that happened within the resting place, and Sliske certainly reveals the Zarosian faction's views to the player (that they want to persuade Guthix to bring Zaros back), so Guthix would have overheard that and been made aware that Sliske was serving some god named Zaros, even if Guthix didn't know anything about Zaros specifically. So, Guthix knew. Guthix was aware that a bunch of zealots were charging through his resting place in order to kill him.

 

Also, again, the point isn't what Sliske would want. It's what Guthix would want. Guthix would not offer a Guardianship to a shifty figure navigating through his resting place with the Staff of Armadyl in order to kill him.

 

Your theory is based on pure conjecture (that Sliske would want immunity rather than godhood -- and if that's true, how would he even know that this was a possible offer? As far as I am aware, only the player, in his moments alone with Guthix, is told what power he is recieving, it's certainly not something anyone knows before this).

 

 

Their reluctance (except for Armadyl and Icthlarin) seems to mainly be that its not on their own terms. The time limit under Sliske's plan would prevent full mobilization. They don't have time to marshal all their forces. The fact that the competition can give the Stone to anyone means that the Gods may not want as many mortals involved for fear that mortals will get the kill. I don't believe for a second that full scale God War isn't coming unless something forces their hand to act earlier.

 

The rules Sliske has set is mainly the time limit and the statement that he will hand over the stone to anyone that kills the most Gods within that time frame. It sets a rush that will prevent the Gods from fully cementing their position and having a long drawn out war.

 

The latest podcast said Guthix was never aware of Zaros. Maybe he did know of the name near the end. However, the quest shows that Guthix has no issue making a World Guardian out of a god's follower because he is willing to make you one even if you proclaim allegiance to one of the Gods.  Perhaps he believed that Sliske had proved he could be a good mortal to fight the Gods. Who better to defend the world from Gods than someone who has set out to kill one.

 

Ultimately we don't know what Guthix would do. He did trust Ocellus at one point as well. I just find it weird that Guthix would allow a mortal to become a God from his death. I also find Sliske's actions interesting and feel like him bringing Zaros back or trying to attain Godhood are too easy an answer that's dangled right in front of us.

 

I completely agree that my theory is based upon incomplete information, and there are a million other ways this could go. I really can't wait to see what Jagex has in mind. I'm just positing a possible theory.

R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

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The return of the God Wars is inevitable. The most you can hope to do is set the rules at this point which might require pro-active action. We don't actually know Sliske's motivations at all or what he's been trying to do this whole time, just that he's been plotting something. Who knows, Sliske might view being immune to God Powers is a better deal than becoming a God and being one of the weaker ones. Guthix apparently never knew anything of Zaros, So would he even know that Sliske served a specific God?

 

It was not necessarily inevitable. It was true that gods, upon their return, would try to seek control, but a God War is a completely destructive, devastating, and full mobilization of one's forces. That certainly wasn't inevitable. The Gods could have tried seeking dominance through one-on-one battles (like the BoL). If Saradomin had, for instance, been able to kill Zamorak there, he may have been able to force Bandos and Armadyl (being much weaker gods) to simply submit to his will rather than be destroyed. So there were plenty of options aside from a God War, and even the Gods in the quest dialogue seem to share this assumption (as evidenced by their hesitance at Sliske's plan).

 

As for rules. Sliske hasn't set any rules. He has proposed a free-for-all brawl, the most chaotic thing he could possibly do. So chaotic that even the other gods are totally weary of it and outright refuse Sliske during Missing/Presumed Death.

 

Also, Guthix may not have known about Zaros' history, but it seems probable that once he knew Sliske was there to kill him, it was either to a) steal his power or, b) break the edicts (the only two possible reasons for someone trying to kill Guthix). Also, Guthix was aware of everything that happened within the resting place, and Sliske certainly reveals the Zarosian faction's views to the player (that they want to persuade Guthix to bring Zaros back), so Guthix would have overheard that and been made aware that Sliske was serving some god named Zaros, even if Guthix didn't know anything about Zaros specifically. So, Guthix knew. Guthix was aware that a bunch of zealots were charging through his resting place in order to kill him.

 

Also, again, the point isn't what Sliske would want. It's what Guthix would want. Guthix would not offer a Guardianship to a shifty figure navigating through his resting place with the Staff of Armadyl in order to kill him.

 

Your theory is based on pure conjecture (that Sliske would want immunity rather than godhood -- and if that's true, how would he even know that this was a possible offer? As far as I am aware, only the player, in his moments alone with Guthix, is told what power he is recieving, it's certainly not something anyone knows before this).

 

 

Their reluctance (except for Armadyl and Icthlarin) seems to mainly be that its not on their own terms. The time limit under Sliske's plan would prevent full mobilization. They don't have time to marshal all their forces. The fact that the competition can give the Stone to anyone means that the Gods may not want as many mortals involved for fear that mortals will get the kill. I don't believe for a second that full scale God War isn't coming unless something forces their hand to act earlier.

 

The rules Sliske has set is mainly the time limit and the statement that he will hand over the stone to anyone that kills the most Gods within that time frame. It sets a rush that will prevent the Gods from fully cementing their position and having a long drawn out war.

 

The latest podcast said Guthix was never aware of Zaros. Maybe he did know of the name near the end. However, the quest shows that Guthix has no issue making a World Guardian out of a god's follower because he is willing to make you one even if you proclaim allegiance to one of the Gods.  Perhaps he believed that Sliske had proved he could be a good mortal to fight the Gods. Who better to defend the world from Gods than someone who has set out to kill one.

 

Ultimately we don't know what Guthix would do. He did trust Ocellus at one point as well. I just find it weird that Guthix would allow a mortal to become a God from his death. I also find Sliske's actions interesting and feel like him bringing Zaros back or trying to attain Godhood are too easy an answer that's dangled right in front of us.

 

I completely agree that my theory is based upon incomplete information, and there are a million other ways this could go. I really can't wait to see what Jagex has in mind. I'm just positing a possible theory.

 

 

The time limit seems more than enough time for mobilization. In the BoL, all that it takes to mobilize forces is a simple portal that allows teleportation. The fact that Sliske is announcing his game well in advance also allows us for planning and mobilization; so I disagree that his rules are there to prevent mobilization. 

 

How does it prevent a full-drawn war? Once a war starts, and say, a few gods die, and a few remain and the time limit is over; it's very possible that they will simply continue fighting in order to be the sole survivor (they're halfway done, why not finish the job? seems simple. It's very hard just to stop fighting. Especially when one's pride and/or hatred gets in the way. I disagree that Sliske's rules set any sort of limit. 

 

Yes, Guthix doesn't know about Zaros. But simply from overhearing the dialogue within his cavern, he would be aware that Sliske was trying to bring back a god that was powerful enough to be effected by the edicts (since only gods powerful enough are banished), and so that would be a no-no. Guthix would not make someone a Guardian who was a) powerhungry, b) in posession of power Elder artifacts, and c) Trying to kill Guthix in order to either bring back a particular god, or steal Guthix's power to ascend to Godhood himself. These actions are all very un-Guthixian. And yes Guthix once trusted Oscellus, but once his nature became apparent, he was shunned by Juna & Company.

 

--

 

And yes, your theory is possible (anything is technically possible), though it's just very unlikely. It's also possible that Seren is an alius for Zaros, but not very likely or something they would actually let happen. 

 

Sliske being a Guardian of Guthix is as unlikely as Seren being Zaros.

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If it was enough time for mobilization, then there would have been more than the already ready for war knights at the Bol, other than that each side only got a few others there. Them going into quick all out war is exactly what I mean by preventing full drawn out war. A quick war where the Gods eliminate eachother is better than another thousand years of conflict where they hunker down and build up their power base. The best thing for Gielinor is to settle this as quickly as possible and then move onto rebuilding again.

 

" Guthix would not make someone a Guardian who was a) powerhungry, b) in posession of power Elder artifacts, and c) Trying to kill Guthix in order to either bring back a particular god, or steal Guthix's power to ascend to Godhood himself. " We can answer Guthix in ways that show that we're power hungry and want him dead to bring back our God or even wish to gain Godhood ourselves and he'll still make us a World Guardian. 

 

Unlikely, yes, but Zaros being Seren contradicts the lore. This theory fits with the lore even if unlikely.

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It's funny because the player is one of the most selfish and power-hungry beings in the setting. :mrgreen:

This depends on the player actually.

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If it was enough time for mobilization, then there would have been more than the already ready for war knights at the Bol, other than that each side only got a few others there. Them going into quick all out war is exactly what I mean by preventing full drawn out war. A quick war where the Gods eliminate eachother is better than another thousand years of conflict where they hunker down and build up their power base. The best thing for Gielinor is to settle this as quickly as possible and then move onto rebuilding again.

 

" Guthix would not make someone a Guardian who was a) powerhungry, b) in posession of power Elder artifacts, and c) Trying to kill Guthix in order to either bring back a particular god, or steal Guthix's power to ascend to Godhood himself. " We can answer Guthix in ways that show that we're power hungry and want him dead to bring back our God or even wish to gain Godhood ourselves and he'll still make us a World Guardian. 

 

Unlikely, yes, but Zaros being Seren contradicts the lore. This theory fits with the lore even if unlikely.

 

That's a good point, technically, the player (if they sided with one of the non-Guthixian factions) does attempt to bring a God back. I will concede that point. My other points still stand though. 

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A few things

 

Oscellus wasn't disowned by Guthix. Oscellus was disowned by his fellow guardians of guthix.

 

Also, if Guthix was able to talk to us for quite a while with a time dilation, why couldn't he have done the same to Sliske?

 

You can't rule out the bit where Sliske got to Guthix first, sensed his intent and ability to kill him, and outright TOLD Sliske to kill him.

Sliske's grin could have meant a few things. "Yes! I am finally going to kill Guthix!" "Haha! I can't believe he wants me to kill him!" or "Haha! All according to plan!"

 

Really, the only outright evil thing Sliske has done to US, the player, is to try to make us a wight. And it really didn't seem more of something that he was planning on, but something spur of the moment. When he failed the first time, he didn't try again and was quite friendly with us. Kind of like a kid trying to taste the icing off the cake. No harm intended, if they get away with it, yay! If they get caught, they won't try again.

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Given that killing a god transfers a great deal of power to the killer, I don't think that Sliske's contest will reduce the total amount of influence the gods have, it will just relocate it. As for non-interference, only one god is reliable, and he's dead.

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Given that killing a god transfers a great deal of power to the killer, I don't think that Sliske's contest will reduce the total amount of influence the gods have, it will just relocate it. As for non-interference, only one god is reliable, and he's dead.

We only know this to be true when the killer is using an elder artifact.

 

considering we know gods can be killed without them, by their reactions I don't think killing a gos without an artifact would transfer power

 

sliske didn't get a power boost as far as we know. . but web haven't seen a god die without an artifact being the cause

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...At the cost of destroying basically the entire planet. Isn't that the kind of thing we're supposed to be preventing? I mean, they did make a big deal out of that.

Nah I don't think Gielinor will be destroyed

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...At the cost of destroying basically the entire planet. Isn't that the kind of thing we're supposed to be preventing? I mean, they did make a big deal out of that.

Nah I don't think Gielinor will be destroyed

 

 

Not by gods, perhaps by Yelps.

 

More likely by warbands, Yelps barely does anything in comparison.

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Given that killing a god transfers a great deal of power to the killer, I don't think that Sliske's contest will reduce the total amount of influence the gods have, it will just relocate it. As for non-interference, only one god is reliable, and he's dead.

We only know this to be true when the killer is using an elder artifact.

 

considering we know gods can be killed without them, by their reactions I don't think killing a gos without an artifact would transfer power

 

sliske didn't get a power boost as far as we know. . but web haven't seen a god die without an artifact being the cause

 

The gods can be killed without elder artefacts, certainly, but: the three gods that we know of how they were killed, were killed with artefacts (twice the Staff, once the Sword). Twice, this has led to the killer (eventually) becoming a god; once, the power exploded all over Gielinor, available for harvest. That that power basically doesn't do anything useful for us (screw divination -.-), doesn't mean it isn't useful to the other gods - they did fight that battle in Lumbridge, after all. Fewer gods also means that each god simply gets more artefacts, because there's still going to be 6+ of those to pass around (not counting the Kiln here). Finally, we know for sure that any political influence by the gods will be split between gods, that is, if Saradomin dies, his followers aren't going to be godless all of a sudden, they're allying with Armadyl. You see the same thing with Zaros vs. Zamorak, and Sliske having his share of followers.

 

(also I believe Azzanandra mentions that Sliske has grown more powerful lately)

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Yeah Sliske isnt evil and he generally acts for the greater good. He just has a sense of humor and is a bit of a loose cannon.

 

Every single conflict involving the Gods has been extremely chaotic and destructive. Why should we assume that this would be any different? Obviously, Gelinor won't be destroyed (we wouldn't have a game otherwise), but from the perspective of the lore, that's a potential outcome. Sliske is basically intentionally trying to manipulate events that would probably ensure a great deal of devastation. Calling him 'good' (from the point of view of conventional morality) is a completely implausible conclusion, and one you would need to substantiate. He seems to be more of a sadist rather than some lighthearted trickster, or someone with a sense of humor. 

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