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Yup. Even if you do all the tasks (as I did). The main gripe is that you should be allowed to side with Zaros if you sided with Guthix during TWW (especially since the Zarosians allow for this possibility).

IT's like that regardless if you supported Zaros in TWW because he's not really there and doesn't have an interactive presence at the Ascension.

 

You're not locked into the choice, the choice isn't there because Zaros isn't capable of reacting or voicing his opinion regardless if an invocation of him is there or not.

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yeah, that's kind of stupid

 

also, if you don't sign up with the zamorak emissary but supported him in the BoL, kril still treats you with his usual charisma, but will acknowledge that you did help them out

 

(to the above post, the option for zaros IS THERE if you sided with them during TWW, it is actually specifically labeled with that quest if you have the option available, plus zaros actually shows a sign of acknowledgement if you choose to side with him at that very moment)

 

(i chose to side with sliske anyway because i'm taking the easy bet that runescape's player population is too dumb to actually rally enough power in a productive manner, and because it would make it really, really easy to get close enough to him to actually do something about it)

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On the topic of god alliances

 

Did they really have all that much of a truce or an alliance in the 3rd age?

Or did they just all follow their own aims as always?

 

Yes they did. The lore makes it unequivocally clear that there was an alliance at various times in the history. Not something accidental or coincidental where they all just ended up doing the same thing, but rather very conscious and intentional alliances. Like the one where they all banded together to re-imprison Nex. Or the joint Saradominist-Zamorakian campaign against the Senntisten which did not halt despite Wahisetal's best efforts to turn the Zamorakians and Saraominists against each other  -- they must have had a relatively decent level of trust.

 

 

You entirely missed my point.

Just because they worked together does not mean they had a true alliance.

As I detailed they each had their own aims to go after Zarosians and would've done it with or without an alliance, and given the immediate betrayals following such joint efforts they don't seem to be true alliances, just a temporary indifference whilst their aims matched up.

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I don't understand why it would be stupid, but it just might be a matter of different perspectives.

 

We don't know Zaros' will no matter how much of a fanatic we might be, role-wise. The only place right now on Gielinor that you can commune with Zaros is the Temple at Sennisten, hence the extra dialog options. But he's grown stronger so that he might observe without the use of a communication portal. That's very significant. Still, ignoring the fact that he might've been able to communicate at the event, there would be little reason to do so. Control comes in many forms, and information is often the fastest way to learning how to control your competition. He might approve of Sliskes methods or not, but that's largely irrelevant. Zaros was there and any choice you made would have satisfied his dominion of control; it was a decisive action you made that continued events. There was no wrong choice for Zaros as there might have been for say, defending Saradomin's blind take on the situation.

 

I did find it interesting that Saradomin's reaction was pure horror to find the Stone of Jas was the goad to incite the next God Wars. He might've been insufferable prior to that, but it was a reaction that made sense following the...more intimate? knowledge we gained of him during Death of Chivalry.

 

You entirely missed my point.

Just because they worked together does not mean they had a true alliance.

As I detailed they each had their own aims to go after Zarosians and would've done it with or without an alliance, and given the immediate betrayals following such joint efforts they don't seem to be true alliances, just a temporary indifference whilst their aims matched up.

Respectfully, I think your point has no point. Alliances are temporary and used only to achieve short-term goals, made in hopes to benefit all parties in the alliance in the short-term. The indifference is the benefit, the goal is self preservation above all else or else obtaining the stone has no point. If you're looking for a more formal declaration, yes, that has not been introduced yet. But what you have defined is effectively an alliance and you're quibbling over details that haven't been brought into question.

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I don't understand why it would be stupid, but it just might be a matter of different perspectives.

 

We don't know Zaros' will no matter how much of a fanatic we might be, role-wise. The only place right now on Gielinor that you can commune with Zaros is the Temple at Sennisten, hence the extra dialog options. But he's grown stronger so that he might observe without the use of a communication portal. That's very significant. Still, ignoring the fact that he might've been able to communicate at the event, there would be little reason to do so. Control comes in many forms, and information is often the fastest way to learning how to control your competition. He might approve of Sliskes methods or not, but that's largely irrelevant. Zaros was there and any choice you made would have satisfied his dominion of control; it was a decisive action you made that continued events. There was no wrong choice for Zaros as there might have been for say, defending Saradomin's blind take on the situation.

 

I did find it interesting that Saradomin's reaction was pure horror to find the Stone of Jas was the goad to incite the next God Wars. He might've been insufferable prior to that, but it was a reaction that made sense following the...more intimate? knowledge we gained of him during Death of Chivalry.

 

He could already observe without the communication portal directly, in that very quest he destroys the Zamorak statue at the Zamora Wine temple right as the portal opens showing he can see at least that far.

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Yup. Even if you do all the tasks (as I did). The main gripe is that you should be allowed to side with Zaros if you sided with Guthix during TWW (especially since the Zarosians allow for this possibility).

IT's like that regardless if you supported Zaros in TWW because he's not really there and doesn't have an interactive presence at the Ascension.

 

You're not locked into the choice, the choice isn't there because Zaros isn't capable of reacting or voicing his opinion regardless if an invocation of him is there or not.

 

 

Actually, from videos of other people doing the quest, those who sided with the Zarosian faction in TWW had to option to side with them again (it says "Side with Zarosians (unlocked in TWW)). Those who supported Guthix did not. Also, if there is no option to side with the Zarosians, why are the Zarosians mad in the post-quest dialogue that you aren't siding with them? Seems silly if the option isn't there (although it is). In any case, you should be able to change sides, as you didn't know that Guthix would die when you sided with him in TWW (unless you read spoilers), and because circumstances have changed, and because the Zarosians keep allowed the possibility in their dialogue, they say they are upset with you because you sided with the Guthixians during TWW, but they hope that you will reconsider this allegiance and join Zaros instead because you have been a worthy ally.

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Yup. Even if you do all the tasks (as I did). The main gripe is that you should be allowed to side with Zaros if you sided with Guthix during TWW (especially since the Zarosians allow for this possibility).

IT's like that regardless if you supported Zaros in TWW because he's not really there and doesn't have an interactive presence at the Ascension.

 

You're not locked into the choice, the choice isn't there because Zaros isn't capable of reacting or voicing his opinion regardless if an invocation of him is there or not.

 

 

Actually, from videos of other people doing the quest, those who sided with the Zarosian faction in TWW had to option to side with them again (it says "Side with Zarosians (unlocked in TWW)). Those who supported Guthix did not. Also, if there is no option to side with the Zarosians, why are the Zarosians mad in the post-quest dialogue that you aren't siding with them? Seems silly if the option isn't there (although it is). In any case, you should be able to change sides, as you didn't know that Guthix would die when you sided with him in TWW (unless you read spoilers), and because circumstances have changed, and because the Zarosians keep allowed the possibility in their dialogue, they say they are upset with you because you sided with the Guthixians during TWW, but they hope that you will reconsider this allegiance and join Zaros instead because you have been a worthy ally.

 

 

Yes, we had that option, I can confirm that. Although technically it says that we sided with "the Zarosians" and didn't say with Zaros. There was also a response that seemed to come from zaros like a feeling on our spine or something. I agree that everyone should have had the chance to side with the zarosians if they had either done TWW or joined the Zarosian faction.

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I chose to side with Zarosians in TWW and Zaros in MPD, just to see what would happen.

 

I do however have this minor issue with god alliance, in particular the Saradominist and Zamorakian alliance to overthrow Zaros. One thing we must not forget is that when that alliance is happening, Zamorak wasn't a god, he was just a Mahjarrat (he didn't obtain godhood until after Zaros was banished), thus I dont think there was a level of trust, more a servant needs a master to carry out a plan they both wanted. The want (and the one-sidedness) of the alliance would therefore be resistant to any attempts to break the alliance (Saradomin didn't want to solo Zaros, and Zamorak wasn't powerful enough to turn his back on Saradomin).

 

Also, I just had a thought that there is a very possible way for Sliske to turn every god in existence (and even the godless faction) against the player. All he needs to do is eat his word about the winner getting SoJ, give the player the SoJ and tell every other surviving god that Sliske himself was under our orders all the time. He would has plenty of excuses to use, such as, we have used the stone, we know its power, and we wanted that powe for ourselves, etc etc. This may cause every faction to interpret that the person who wanted to achieve godhood was us after all, and not Sliske. Being a world guardian, it would be advantageous for both the gods to band up on us, and Sliske for getting rid of us without lifting a finger.

 

He witnessed our capabilities during RoTM, he even tried to make us into his wight, so he definitely sees us as a powerful being. That and Guthix's remanent power could prove a huge obstacle to any prospective gods.

 

This is however, my own speculation, but probably possible given how he trolled in this quest, I won't be surprised if he trolled us specifically

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I chose to side with Zarosians in TWW and Zaros in MPD, just to see what would happen.

 

I do however have this minor issue with god alliance, in particular the Saradominist and Zamorakian alliance to overthrow Zaros. One thing we must not forget is that when that alliance is happening, Zamorak wasn't a god, he was just a Mahjarrat (he didn't obtain godhood until after Zaros was banished), thus I dont think there was a level of trust, more a servant needs a master to carry out a plan they both wanted. The want (and the one-sidedness) of the alliance would therefore be resistant to any attempts to break the alliance (Saradomin didn't want to solo Zaros, and Zamorak wasn't powerful enough to turn his back on Saradomin).

 

Also, I just had a thought that there is a very possible way for Sliske to turn every god in existence (and even the godless faction) against the player. All he needs to do is eat his word about the winner getting SoJ, give the player the SoJ and tell every other surviving god that Sliske himself was under our orders all the time. He would has plenty of excuses to use, such as, we have used the stone, we know its power, and we wanted that powe for ourselves, etc etc. This may cause every faction to interpret that the person who wanted to achieve godhood was us after all, and not Sliske. Being a world guardian, it would be advantageous for both the gods to band up on us, and Sliske for getting rid of us without lifting a finger.

 

He witnessed our capabilities during RoTM, he even tried to make us into his wight, so he definitely sees us as a powerful being. That and Guthix's remanent power could prove a huge obstacle to any prospective gods.

 

This is however, my own speculation, but probably possible given how he trolled in this quest, I won't be surprised if he trolled us specifically

 

 

Just to clear this up, Zamorak did not side with Saradomin to overthrow Zaros. Zamorak used his own allies and followers when he betrayed Zaros. The alliance came afterwards when although Zaros was gone his empire still remained with some very powerful mahjaratt and other followers that Zamorak and Saradomin decided to wipe out. They trapped Azzanadra in Jaldraocht and wiping out the Zarosian Empire and pretty much everything that remained of Zaros.

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You entirely missed my point.

Just because they worked together does not mean they had a true alliance.

As I detailed they each had their own aims to go after Zarosians and would've done it with or without an alliance, and given the immediate betrayals following such joint efforts they don't seem to be true alliances, just a temporary indifference whilst their aims matched up.

Respectfully, I think your point has no point. Alliances are temporary and used only to achieve short-term goals, made in hopes to benefit all parties in the alliance in the short-term. The indifference is the benefit, the goal is self preservation above all else or else obtaining the stone has no point. If you're looking for a more formal declaration, yes, that has not been introduced yet. But what you have defined is effectively an alliance and you're quibbling over details that haven't been brought into question.

 

 

Alas you don't seem to understand the nuance of my point either.

Just because we know they worked towards the same goal does not an alliance make.

An alliance requires formal co-operation and unified tactics, neither of which we have any evidence of actually happening; all we do have is them pursuing matching goals in self-interest.

 

Perhaps I may be 'quibbling over details' but when debating whether a formal alliance against Sliske could work or be a viable choice for the gods, with prior 'alliances' being used as evidence of it working I think it is a rather crucial detail whether or not these former instances were true formal alliances or merely a temporary alignment of causes that allowed them to ignore the other for the duration.

 

Because in the framework of Sliske's game a formal alliance is required to have any level of security against being immediately backstabbed, where as an informal one leaves you utterly exposed to being killed by another party when your back is turned. In the prior examples no-one had anything to lose by defeating Zarosian forces whilst they were weakened, only the removal of an opposing force and the potential to expand your power; in this case whilst there may be winnings to be had in defeating Sliske there are potential loses too if you leave yourself open to others knowing your tactics and plans as they could bump you off to thin the herd and further themselves in the game.

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Alas you don't seem to understand the nuance of my point either.

Just because we know they worked towards the same goal does not an alliance make.

First off, really dude? Moving on from that...

 

Next, you'll see that I did directly address that point about formal cooperation. Please reread my post.

 

I think it is a rather crucial detail whether or not these former instances were true formal alliances or merely a temporary alignment of causes that allowed them to ignore the other for the duration.

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The cited lore by Yoko Kurama falls under that definition.

 

 

 

 

 

Because in the framework of Sliske's game a formal alliance is required to have any level of security against being immediately backstabbed,

It absolutely does not guarantee they won't be backstabbed unless they have enough value or power to protect themselves first and foremost. Right now that protection lies in indifference.

 

where as an informal one leaves you utterly exposed to being killed by another party when your back is turned.

This threat would exist regardless. You are being too idealistic in thinking that a formal agreement will prevent this. The only thing that matters in this case is power and benefit. And that certainly has no bearing on whether or not what is happening now and has happened in the past is an alliance or not.

 

In the prior examples no-one had anything to lose by defeating Zarosian forces whilst they were weakened, only the removal of an opposing force and the potential to expand your power; in this case whilst there may be winnings to be had in defeating Sliske there are potential loses too if you leave yourself open to others knowing your tactics and plans as they could bump you off to thin the herd and further themselves in the game.

If you reference the definition I provided earlier, you've described an alliance to the letter. The same can be applied to the events going on now.

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It really is a prisoner's dilemma here.

 

Sliske probably won't give up the Stone of Jas, but he may have it. This means some gods will go after him directly, others won't. But there is a chance that he is telling the truth (after all, he did give us the key to save Death, keeping true to his word).

 

If you do *nothing*, then someone will likely kill you. If you go after Sliske alone, you will likely be backstabbed, and/or he might defeat you. No one actually knows how powerful Sliske is. He does have the Staff, and he also potentially has the stone. Plus he has proven mastery of the shadow realm. He was able to capture a dragonkin, and Death (though Death may not have been that difficult).

 

If you go after any of the gods, you're playing into whatever twisted plan that Sliske has. But some of the gods will have war anyways.. not to mention the gods can hardly keep this a secret, and Sliske appears to be willing to award the Stone to a mortal. How many of the Majjarat will attempt to kill a god?

 

With the fact that Majjarat, and Bandos are probably willing to go to bat against some of the weaker gods... the higher tier gods will likely want to prevent them from winning just to prevent them from getting the stone.

 

With all these facts... there really isn't a good choice to team up and take Sliske out. There are just too many variables.

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That raises the question, which mortals are most likely to participate?

 

Zemouregal is an obvious choice in my opinion, because he expressed a great desire to become a god. I could see him try to pick off Armadyl, or directly challenge Zamorak to prove that he is the strongest mahjarrat.

Azzanadra isn't a candidate; he's way too loyal to Zaros. It would be interesting if he back-stabbed Zaros, though.

Zilyana is crazy enough to try to kill Saradomin, and she's about as strong as Zamorak was before he got the staff, I think.

The player could, but I think we know that we can't become a god. It'd be cool, however.

Maybe someone from the Godless would try (and probably fail miserably) to kill a god.

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Azzanadra is unlikely, but any of the "zamorakian" ones might, most obviously Zemouregal.

 

One of the Armadyl body guards sounded like he was displeased with Armadyl.

 

I do hope the godless attempt to kill a god.

 

Also, don't forget that there are a lot of lower tier gods around, that weren't invited. Don't the desert pantheon count?

 

I just had a hilarious thought: what if this is their excuse of a way to properly kill off Brassica Prime?  :ph34r:

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That seems kind of odd if they actually plan on having one of those gods die though, considering that most of them are pretty popular, and all... 

 

I am curious how much more real time will pass before the "eclipse" that Sliske mentioned..

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I think the Godless probably have the best chance of claiming the stone/stopping Sliske because they're committed to their cause enough to not get caught up in the massive dick waving fight all the other gods are gonna be pulled into, plus they're probably more suited for the kind of fighting Sliske engages in (seriously, all of the other factions are missing the point and the only other group which would have a chance is the temple knights, although they might be tied up with the dragonkin). However, their resources are low, so whatever they do have is going to have to be leveraged stronger than Sliske is doing with his resources in order to succeed.

 

I'm still going to take the easy way out and shack up with Sliske until further details present themselves.

 

That seems kind of odd if they actually plan on having one of those gods die though, considering that most of them are pretty popular, and all... 

 

I am curious how much more real time will pass before the "eclipse" that Sliske mentioned..

 

we kicked this off with killing Guthix, possibly the most popular god next to Zaros

 

now is the time for action

 

as for time, it will be measured in events, not real time, although the last event may make use of a doomsday clock, haha

 

"dawn of the final day, 24 hours remain"

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I think the Godless probably have the best chance of claiming the stone/stopping Sliske because they're committed to their cause enough to not get caught up in the massive dick waving fight all the other gods are gonna be pulled into, plus they're probably more suited for the kind of fighting Sliske engages in (seriously, all of the other factions are missing the point and the only other group which would have a chance is the temple knights, although they might be tied up with the dragonkin). However, their resources are low, so whatever they do have is going to have to be leveraged stronger than Sliske is doing with his resources in order to succeed.

 

I'm still going to take the easy way out and shack up with Sliske until further details present themselves.

 

I chose godless faction because there was no guthix faction, but they are seriously underpowered.  One human with the stone doesn't equal a god either.

 

 

That seems kind of odd if they actually plan on having one of those gods die though, considering that most of them are pretty popular, and all... 

 

I am curious how much more real time will pass before the "eclipse" that Sliske mentioned..

 

Years

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the stone actually represents a shitload of power, since somebody in the quest stated that it had the potential to banish the gods again, like guthix did

 

i'm going to be optimistic and say that this act would also end up sealing off the stone of jas forever when it is used for this purpose

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the stone actually represents a shitload of power, since somebody in the quest stated that it had the potential to banish the gods again, like guthix did

 

i'm going to be optimistic and say that this act would also end up sealing off the stone of jas forever when it is used for this purpose

But that also brings the question what mortal can use ONLY the stone and end up doing that? And don't say the player, thats some bs.

 

The reasons why the gods want the stone so much is because they already have power more than the power you had when you used the stone.

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What would happen with god power if player would kill god?

The "god power" would act as it did when guthix died. We can't ascend to godhood.

 

Are you 100% sure, god power wouldn't vanish?

 

I'm almost certain it was mentioned recently, but I've checked for a long time and can't find a source to it. I apologize.

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