Sirenic Armour- 22nd October

[Alg]

- I wouldn't mind the degrade-to-dust mechanic if it weren't for the fact that Tectonic costs 85-100M, and Sirenic currently costs well over 400M? That much for an armour that is going to degrade to nothing in a while? Ridiculous. That's my problem with it. Sirenic is new, so it won't be 400M+ forever,  but it will be an extremely hefty sum. A sum that most people can't really afford, particularly many w/ 90+ def/ranged, the target demographic. The only decent ways of making money for high-leveled players are Nex, KK, and Vorago. Nex and KK drops are lower than ever before, and it's simply not feasible spending hundreds of millions on armour that is going to degrade. We simply cannot afford it. As for Vorago, the rewards are great, except it's so poorly designed that most players can't find reliable teams for it. Can't use forum teams (completely unreliable, awful, and 110% chance that there is no split of the drop). So once again, only a privileged few will be able to make any use of Sirenic.

Would I be wrong in saying that "degrade to dust" would be a great mechanic to have on quick and easy to obtain high level gear? Say, let players use their port resources to make a version of ports armor that doesn't last very long, but also has lower requirements to make and are tradeable, while the versions made with trade goods are permanent (Though could still require some kind of upkeep), untradeable, and could have a set bonus to further differentiate them from the inferior version. The idea is that you're supposed to use the weaker version until you have the levels or resources to make the stronger one, since most players are going to get high combats before they get high skills.

 

Then they could actually start balancing the game for higher level equipment (I know, Jagex balancing the game, but hear me out), since those tiers won't be limited to only a handful of billionaires. As it is, we've got a massive amount of power creep based on the fact that we have T90 weapons and power armor, but everything that isn't a boss (and even several bosses) are meant to be somewhat easy if you have T70 and momentum. You could make the game "harder" without making it any less accessible, and probably make skilling relevant again if you tie these new items to it (If you want an example of how not to make skilling relevant, look at this month's BtS).

 

Of course, we'd still have to deal with the fact that Jagex has no idea how to balance anything (I'm going to keep bringing up that damn exponential curve in item stats until I quit), but it's something. And of course, before I'm burned at the stake as a heretic, the point here isn't to replace endgame bossing as much as it is to bridge the gap between it and normal combat.

[Yoko Kurama]

Precisely. That is a solution I could get behind. It's the same reason why I support keeping Gravestones despite the fact that they do reduce risk substantially. Why? Because gear in Runescape (top gear) takes quite a while to get, hundreds of millions of GP, I can't be replacing that every time I die at high level bosses (most of which have KO abilities). If gear were easier to get, it'd be acceptable to add an element of risk. Right now, the best money makers for more high levels are Nex and KK and they are rapidly becoming less profitable each day. 

 

I am a Maxed Player, and it's hard to think, but if I were to say, get hacked tomorrow, it would take me ages to get even half my stuff back. That's because skills in RS are completely useless. I have 99 Smithing (which I got before Artisan's workshop when it cost a lot), and if I were to lose my stuff, I couldn't even make a half-decent set of armour. That's the problem with RS. There's just not a lot of ways to make money or good rewards, so it takes forever to get anywhere, so people are averse to risk and loss.

[Yoko Kurama]

Except isn't a lot of the "absurd wealth" kept in the form of items already? Shards because they have a steady value and rares becuase they're steady/rise? So purely taxing all of your gold wouldn't work as well. I think a tax on g.e. would be much more useful and less prone to abuse. The amount of items traded on g.e. just because a player is too busy to seel it manually would probably remain pretty high making it a decent money-sink.

 

Also, I disagree with your statement that this money-sink for tier 90 armour won't be effective. It will take a decent amount out of the game and ultimately a large number of smaller sinks will also do a decent job even if individually they seem minor.

 

Lastly, I don't see how really expensive tier 90 armour harms us (meaning those who don't do bossing) at all. I really don't think there are any creatures in the game that would find level 90 armour too useful in the game besides bosses. Everything else is pretty simple to kill with armour from gwd bosses or ports gear.

 

If the economy were deflated, the value of rares (and wealth stored in rares) would instantly drop. Shards, since they have a fixed value (I think), could just be treated like money. So I am for targeting the wealth of super-wealthy players regardless of whether it is stored in GP or items.

 

As for monsters, well, most of us high levels actually like to do something fun once we get Maxed, and that involves boss hunting. And for that we need reasonably good armour. You try getting onto a Nex team with Ports armour (unless you're tanking), and you will be rejected 7/10 teams. So yes, we need accessible armour. It shouldn't be totally ridiculously hard to get, you know.

 

 

 

The thing is, they could MAKE Vorago a great money making venue for people, if they weren't just completely retarded.

 

All they have to do is manually adjust the wand GE price to max cash and BAM, Vorago becomes worthwhile for everybody. So ****ing what if the street price is 2.6B, you don't think most people would gladly accept a 2.1B split? In a group of 20, that is still 105m EACH. And besides, street price would fall if the GE price were much closer

to it, because then people would have a reason to run Vorago. More wands means the rich elite have less control over the supply.

 

Agreed. Also, they need to just get rid of the 2.1B limit for drops. We should be compensated for the street price. They promised us years ago that they would manually fix GE prices for special items and they have yet to do that. They make this supposedly challenging and great boss, and they [bleep] everyone over by making the mechanics for it totally retarded, so much so that we don't even to do the content. 

[Ammako]

Not sure if they gave them to everyone or just gold members.

Well it does specify that you are getting them due to being a Gold member.

[helring]

 

Not sure if they gave them to everyone or just gold members.

Well it does specify that you are getting them due to being a Gold member.

 

 

I missed the message, I logged in and saw the list but then lagged out pretty quickly.

[helring]

I don't see the need to specifically target the super wealthy for deflation. Target everyone with things like a g.e. tax and it would still help. Gold removed is Gold removed and as long as its only 5-10% per transaction most people wouldn't mind paying a convenience fee for selling on the g.e.

 

they need to provide incentives for the people to spend their money on gold sinks, not just randomly remove the cash from people's banks. Provide content that will remove the gold and add regular gold sinks that can apply to everyone.

[Urza285]

I feel that everyone is spooked by the degrade to dust stuff going on because its something out of the typical degrade system expectations.

 

I think we should be appreciative with the facilitation of gp removal and that it is done in an appropriate way. It seems most people believe it needs to be legitimately accepted by the community, but the issue is no one wants to lose therefore no one would have a "winning" idea. I believe a 20% degradation cost is fair while a 10% might have been better. I feel they opted for the 20% cost to help combat the current volume of gp in game. I think this change is a good one. I would imagine this would make players a bit more appreciative of signs of life and portents of life.

[Yoko Kurama]

I don't see the need to specifically target the super wealthy for deflation. Target everyone with things like a g.e. tax and it would still help. Gold removed is Gold removed and as long as its only 5-10% per transaction most people wouldn't mind paying a convenience fee for selling on the g.e.

 

they need to provide incentives for the people to spend their money on gold sinks, not just randomly remove the cash from people's banks. Provide content that will remove the gold and add regular gold sinks that can apply to everyone.

 

That's the point though. Most high-level people just don't have a lot of money sitting around. Maybe a few hundred mil at the most, usually saving up for some gear or experience (meaning it will be spent either way). Targetting them is useless. It's the super-wealthy that have mountains of cash lying around and who actively inflate the economy, so targeting them makes sense. It's not random, it has a purpose.

[helring]

 

I don't see the need to specifically target the super wealthy for deflation. Target everyone with things like a g.e. tax and it would still help. Gold removed is Gold removed and as long as its only 5-10% per transaction most people wouldn't mind paying a convenience fee for selling on the g.e.

 

they need to provide incentives for the people to spend their money on gold sinks, not just randomly remove the cash from people's banks. Provide content that will remove the gold and add regular gold sinks that can apply to everyone.

 

That's the point though. Most high-level people just don't have a lot of money sitting around. Maybe a few hundred mil at the most, usually saving up for some gear or experience (meaning it will be spent either way). Targetting them is useless. It's the super-wealthy that have mountains of cash lying around and who actively inflate the economy, so targeting them makes sense. It's not random, it has a purpose.

 

 

Except it would be just as easy and more fair to just target everyone with stuff like the g.e. sink and other basic sinks where you might not remove as much from the individual but by removing a bit from everyone you'd have the same effect. Then maybe they should release some really expensive cosmetic items. 1 billion for a crown etc, stuff thats worthless for gameplay but will allow those with cash to show off. Not a tax where value is removed from them, but a way to spend the cash without ruining the balance of the game.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

I don't see the need to specifically target the super wealthy for deflation. Target everyone with things like a g.e. tax and it would still help. Gold removed is Gold removed and as long as its only 5-10% per transaction most people wouldn't mind paying a convenience fee for selling on the g.e.

 

they need to provide incentives for the people to spend their money on gold sinks, not just randomly remove the cash from people's banks. Provide content that will remove the gold and add regular gold sinks that can apply to everyone.

 

That's the point though. Most high-level people just don't have a lot of money sitting around. Maybe a few hundred mil at the most, usually saving up for some gear or experience (meaning it will be spent either way). Targetting them is useless. It's the super-wealthy that have mountains of cash lying around and who actively inflate the economy, so targeting them makes sense. It's not random, it has a purpose.

 

 

Except it would be just as easy and more fair to just target everyone with stuff like the g.e. sink and other basic sinks where you might not remove as much from the individual but by removing a bit from everyone you'd have the same effect. Then maybe they should release some really expensive cosmetic items. 1 billion for a crown etc, stuff thats worthless for gameplay but will allow those with cash to show off. Not a tax where value is removed from them, but a way to spend the cash without ruining the balance of the game.

 

It would not be "fair" (though that's subjective). It certainly wouldn't be the same effect, objectively. All your suggestions won't remove nearly as much money as simply appropriating it away. My idea is far more effective.

[Aiel]

I'm not sure there's a fair way to judge who the super wealth is. Is the top 15 player pumping billions into skills judged the same way as a wealthy dicer with three phat sets and a max spirit shard stack? Even with a GE tax one of those groups is heavily impacted while the other isn't. 

[helring]

Yours is far more effective at the cost of being completely unfair to those that legitimately gained their cash. I didn't like the hosts but they weren't really doing anything against the game rules at the time. A lot of the top level bossers aren't doing anything against the rules and neither are the merchers. Just taking away what they've earned and giving them nothing in return is a terrible idea.

 

Give people incentives to spend money and they will. Right now there aren't any items worth spending that much cash on so of course they hoard it. Give them some items that cost a lot but are completely cosmetic and I could see it removing a lot of gold from the game.

[Yoko Kurama]

Yours is far more effective at the cost of being completely unfair to those that legitimately gained their cash. I didn't like the hosts but they weren't really doing anything against the game rules at the time. A lot of the top level bossers aren't doing anything against the rules and neither are the merchers. Just taking away what they've earned and giving them nothing in return is a terrible idea.

 

Give people incentives to spend money and they will. Right now there aren't any items worth spending that much cash on so of course they hoard it. Give them some items that cost a lot but are completely cosmetic and I could see it removing a lot of gold from the game.

 

Dicing and manipulating prices all day long is not what I would consider to be "legitimate" wealth. Simply because it wasn't against the rules doesn't mean it was an acceptable practice. Only Vorago players make tons of money, the rest of them don't make anywhere near the amount manipulators and hoarders do. Wealth, and the rules that govern it, are completely a social process; if the current rules aren't producing a healthy and fun game environment, then they should be discarded, I don't give a rat's ass about natural rights or anything. No one has any rights, except those that are given to them by Jagex.

 

As for your idea of incentives, it's completely doomed to failure. If you release a few cosmetic items worth 1B or whatever, someone with lots of money will buy maybe one or two, they won't spend their whole bank on it. Because then they wouldn't be in the manipulating business (the source of their power). They aren't stupid. They aren't just going to hand over their wealth. 

[NukeMarine]

I would say if you want to do any tax at all then take 5-10% of all sales on the g.e. It might bring a bit more back to the in person trading but overall most people will still just dump their stuff on the g.e. so it should still work fine to remove a decent chunk.

 

Very old suggestion that's been here since the GE was introduced. I think it's as simple as taxing the end sale based on how much it was. Less than 10k gp then no tax, 10k-100k is 1%, 100k to 1m is 2%, 1m to 10m is 3%, 10m to 100m is 4%, 100m to 1b is 5%, 1b+ is 6%. Large sales would be encouraged to be bartered while small sales will use the GE for the convenience. Speculative trading is discouraged since the margins are cut to shreds.

 

The only reason we have the GE in the first place is because of removal of free trade. Now it's just being abused lock the stock market in the real world to profit on day trading without ever helping the economy itself. Jagex needed a GE tax for the longest time, and given the convenience of the GE people would have paid it even from the beginning (well, if not for the tiny fact that you're forced to use it due to free trade restrictions). 

[helring]

 

Yours is far more effective at the cost of being completely unfair to those that legitimately gained their cash. I didn't like the hosts but they weren't really doing anything against the game rules at the time. A lot of the top level bossers aren't doing anything against the rules and neither are the merchers. Just taking away what they've earned and giving them nothing in return is a terrible idea.

 

Give people incentives to spend money and they will. Right now there aren't any items worth spending that much cash on so of course they hoard it. Give them some items that cost a lot but are completely cosmetic and I could see it removing a lot of gold from the game.

 

Dicing and manipulating prices all day long is not what I would consider to be "legitimate" wealth. Simply because it wasn't against the rules doesn't mean it was an acceptable practice. Only Vorago players make tons of money, the rest of them don't make anywhere near the amount manipulators and hoarders do. Wealth, and the rules that govern it, are completely a social process; if the current rules aren't producing a healthy and fun game environment, then they should be discarded, I don't give a rat's ass about natural rights or anything. No one has any rights, except those that are given to them by Jagex.

 

As for your idea of incentives, it's completely doomed to failure. If you release a few cosmetic items worth 1B or whatever, someone with lots of money will buy maybe one or two, they won't spend their whole bank on it. Because then they wouldn't be in the manipulating business (the source of their power). They aren't stupid. They aren't just going to hand over their wealth. 

 

 

 

The incentives would take some of the wealth. As well as the g.e. tax taking a decent amount from them when they do buy out everything. I'm sorry you don't believe that just removing what someone's earned in a game is a bad idea. I could understand in real life if someone's health or well-being were counting on it, but in a game we should be convincing them to spend it not just remove it because "you have too much".

[helring]

 

I would say if you want to do any tax at all then take 5-10% of all sales on the g.e. It might bring a bit more back to the in person trading but overall most people will still just dump their stuff on the g.e. so it should still work fine to remove a decent chunk.

 

Very old suggestion that's been here since the GE was introduced. I think it's as simple as taxing the end sale based on how much it was. Less than 10k gp then no tax, 10k-100k is 1%, 100k to 1m is 2%, 1m to 10m is 3%, 10m to 100m is 4%, 100m to 1b is 5%, 1b+ is 6%. Large sales would be encouraged to be bartered while small sales will use the GE for the convenience. Speculative trading is discouraged since the margins are cut to shreds.

 

The only reason we have the GE in the first place is because of removal of free trade. Now it's just being abused lock the stock market in the real world to profit on day trading without ever helping the economy itself. Jagex needed a GE tax for the longest time, and given the convenience of the GE people would have paid it even from the beginning (well, if not for the tiny fact that you're forced to use it due to free trade restrictions). 

 

 

I don't really even think the tax would need to scale as long as its a percentage. Small sales would take away smaller amounts just because they're less cash being traded anyway. Also for smaller sales it would still be worth using the g.e. because its not worth the extra 5-10% to go find a buyer most of the time.

[Riptide Mage]

 

I would say if you want to do any tax at all then take 5-10% of all sales on the g.e. It might bring a bit more back to the in person trading but overall most people will still just dump their stuff on the g.e. so it should still work fine to remove a decent chunk.

 

Very old suggestion that's been here since the GE was introduced. I think it's as simple as taxing the end sale based on how much it was. Less than 10k gp then no tax, 10k-100k is 1%, 100k to 1m is 2%, 1m to 10m is 3%, 10m to 100m is 4%, 100m to 1b is 5%, 1b+ is 6%. Large sales would be encouraged to be bartered while small sales will use the GE for the convenience. Speculative trading is discouraged since the margins are cut to shreds.

 

The only reason we have the GE in the first place is because of removal of free trade. Now it's just being abused lock the stock market in the real world to profit on day trading without ever helping the economy itself. Jagex needed a GE tax for the longest time, and given the convenience of the GE people would have paid it even from the beginning (well, if not for the tiny fact that you're forced to use it due to free trade restrictions). 

 

This wouldn't work at all, because it would be inefficient to spend the time to find someone selling large amounts of an item rather than just pay the GE fee.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

Yours is far more effective at the cost of being completely unfair to those that legitimately gained their cash. I didn't like the hosts but they weren't really doing anything against the game rules at the time. A lot of the top level bossers aren't doing anything against the rules and neither are the merchers. Just taking away what they've earned and giving them nothing in return is a terrible idea.

 

Give people incentives to spend money and they will. Right now there aren't any items worth spending that much cash on so of course they hoard it. Give them some items that cost a lot but are completely cosmetic and I could see it removing a lot of gold from the game.

 

Dicing and manipulating prices all day long is not what I would consider to be "legitimate" wealth. Simply because it wasn't against the rules doesn't mean it was an acceptable practice. Only Vorago players make tons of money, the rest of them don't make anywhere near the amount manipulators and hoarders do. Wealth, and the rules that govern it, are completely a social process; if the current rules aren't producing a healthy and fun game environment, then they should be discarded, I don't give a rat's ass about natural rights or anything. No one has any rights, except those that are given to them by Jagex.

 

As for your idea of incentives, it's completely doomed to failure. If you release a few cosmetic items worth 1B or whatever, someone with lots of money will buy maybe one or two, they won't spend their whole bank on it. Because then they wouldn't be in the manipulating business (the source of their power). They aren't stupid. They aren't just going to hand over their wealth. 

 

 

 

The incentives would take some of the wealth. As well as the g.e. tax taking a decent amount from them when they do buy out everything. I'm sorry you don't believe that just removing what someone's earned in a game is a bad idea. I could understand in real life if someone's health or well-being were counting on it, but in a game we should be convincing them to spend it not just remove it because "you have too much".

 

 

In order to deflate the economy to a healthy level, taking some money is completely pointless. Large sums need to be deleted, that is the only way out of this mess. Anything less is a waste of time.

 

I don't think they "earned" it (that is a loaded term), so your moralistic argument has no effect on me. Property has always been a social institution which societies have always created, instituted, regulated, and governed based on public utility. There's nothing more to it. So, no, I don't recognize this nonsense about how all these super-wealthy people "earned" their money, and have a "right" to keep it. Those are two concepts that are completely vacuous to me, and I reject them completely in this context. Moralizing to me on this issue won't get you far, because I reject the moral terms you are using.

[NukeMarine]

 

 

I would say if you want to do any tax at all then take 5-10% of all sales on the g.e. It might bring a bit more back to the in person trading but overall most people will still just dump their stuff on the g.e. so it should still work fine to remove a decent chunk.

 

Very old suggestion that's been here since the GE was introduced. I think it's as simple as taxing the end sale based on how much it was. Less than 10k gp then no tax, 10k-100k is 1%, 100k to 1m is 2%, 1m to 10m is 3%, 10m to 100m is 4%, 100m to 1b is 5%, 1b+ is 6%. Large sales would be encouraged to be bartered while small sales will use the GE for the convenience. Speculative trading is discouraged since the margins are cut to shreds.

 

The only reason we have the GE in the first place is because of removal of free trade. Now it's just being abused lock the stock market in the real world to profit on day trading without ever helping the economy itself. Jagex needed a GE tax for the longest time, and given the convenience of the GE people would have paid it even from the beginning (well, if not for the tiny fact that you're forced to use it due to free trade restrictions). 

 

This wouldn't work at all, because it would be inefficient to spend the time to find someone selling large amounts of an item rather than just pay the GE fee.

 

Are you sure you wrote the reply correctly? You basically gave the reason why it would work for its intended purpose.

[NukeMarine]

 

 

I would say if you want to do any tax at all then take 5-10% of all sales on the g.e. It might bring a bit more back to the in person trading but overall most people will still just dump their stuff on the g.e. so it should still work fine to remove a decent chunk.

 

Very old suggestion that's been here since the GE was introduced. I think it's as simple as taxing the end sale based on how much it was. Less than 10k gp then no tax, 10k-100k is 1%, 100k to 1m is 2%, 1m to 10m is 3%, 10m to 100m is 4%, 100m to 1b is 5%, 1b+ is 6%. Large sales would be encouraged to be bartered while small sales will use the GE for the convenience. Speculative trading is discouraged since the margins are cut to shreds.

 

The only reason we have the GE in the first place is because of removal of free trade. Now it's just being abused lock the stock market in the real world to profit on day trading without ever helping the economy itself. Jagex needed a GE tax for the longest time, and given the convenience of the GE people would have paid it even from the beginning (well, if not for the tiny fact that you're forced to use it due to free trade restrictions). 

 

 

I don't really even think the tax would need to scale as long as its a percentage. Small sales would take away smaller amounts just because they're less cash being traded anyway. Also for smaller sales it would still be worth using the g.e. because its not worth the extra 5-10% to go find a buyer most of the time.

 

It's my liberal attitude shining through, sorry. I don't think that there's a need to tax something that's beneficial to society. In this case, I think small sales are great for the economy and likely from players that can afford it the least. Larger sales suggests that persons are doing well in the economy and can afford to support it via the tax.

 

Anyway, yes, a flat tax would work just as well. The term I used is Consignment Fee as that's what the GE is doing.  I can't be bothered to do the spreadsheet calculations, but I assume a 3% consignment fee on all GE trades would remove 30 billion gp on just the top bulk trades in the last months.

 

Plus, the beauty of it is that anyone that complains gets the childish retort "Well, just trade in person and save yourself from being taxed". Childish, but legitimate. 

[helring]

Yes, I get that moral arguements won't work for you. However, they spent their time in-game gaining that cash without breaking the rules. Just taking it away from them would have an adverse effect upon the game. Showing people that Jagex is willing to take away what they've gained when they haven't broken any of the rules that Jagex has set forth might convince some or even many to stop playing the game.

 

Right now we have a situation where Jagex has the right to take stuff away at any point, but doesn't do it unless they believe you've broken the rules. Can you not see how showing players that Jagex is actually willing to take away what you've gained when you haven't broken any rules might chase them away to another game?

 

While you may not believe that they have earned their money, and that you really shouldn't take it away from them without a damn good reason other than "you have too much". I don't think many other players would agree with you. You may find people who don't believe that certain groups like dicers or merchants have earned their money, but I think it would be hard to find many that would support removing wealth from all groups that have gained above a certain amount.

 

 

Edit: Nuke, I can understand that attitude. I just think that if the tax is small enough like 5% or so then its not really going to be that big of a deal for small trades anyway. I think we need a decent balance between fairness and a decent money sink and that while small trades might not rake in much individually they could be really useful in taking out some gp from the economy all together. I also don't want to incentivize merchants just breaking up their offers into smaller lots so as to avoid the tax and thus getting them more interested in merching the cheaper items.

[Yoko Kurama]

Yes, I get that moral arguements won't work for you. However, they spent their time in-game gaining that cash without breaking the rules. Just taking it away from them would have an adverse effect upon the game. Showing people that Jagex is willing to take away what they've gained when they haven't broken any of the rules that Jagex has set forth might convince some or even many to stop playing the game.

 

Right now we have a situation where Jagex has the right to take stuff away at any point, but doesn't do it unless they believe you've broken the rules. Can you not see how showing players that Jagex is actually willing to take away what you've gained when you haven't broken any rules might chase them away to another game?

 

While you may not believe that they have earned their money, and that you really shouldn't take it away from them without a damn good reason other than "you have too much". I don't think many other players would agree with you. You may find people who don't believe that certain groups like dicers or merchants have earned their money, but I think it would be hard to find many that would support removing wealth from all groups that have gained above a certain amount.

 

 

Edit: Nuke, I can understand that attitude. I just think that if the tax is small enough like 5% or so then its not really going to be that big of a deal for small trades anyway. I think we need a decent balance between fairness and a decent money sink and that while small trades might not rake in much individually they could be really useful in taking out some gp from the economy all together. I also don't want to incentivize merchants just breaking up their offers into smaller lots so as to avoid the tax and thus getting them more interested in merching the cheaper items.

 

No, I don't accept your premise that this will have any adverse effect on the game at all. In fact, my whole advocacy for it is predicated on the premise that it will be one of the best things to have happened to RS. Only a minority of players will be adversely affected by this. And some will quit? So what? People quit Runescape all the time, over all sorts of things. That's not really an argument. Famous RWT'ers have also gotten banned and huge sums of money have been taken out, that way as well. I am sure some of them didn't bother returning either. Plenty of people quit over EoC (a mass exodus, perhaps), and yet EoC is still here -- sometimes updates cause some people to quit, that's a price I am willing to pay.

 

It's a unique situation, sure, but it won't cause the majority of players or encourage them to quit. Only hoarders will be punished. If they all want to quit en masse, then good riddance to the parasites, I say. The rules argument is also unconvincing. The rules are not some infallible thing, they can be 'wrong' sometimes. If they aren't working (and the current 'rules' aren't working), then you put in a completely new system in place, it's that simple. I believe Jagex did this one before, at the tail end of the Flower-game saga, they started muting people before they announced the change in the rules. Was it fair to those people? Probably not. I don't care. If you are parasitically harming the economy, and stealing asset value from other players, and making Runescape a really unfun place to be (as some of the super-wealthy do), then I don't care about your rights or any such nonsense. I hope the worst happens to such people (in-game), I have no sympathy for them. 

 

I think I could convince people to come to my side. My argument is by no means unpopular, as price manipulaters and hoarders are universally hated, because they are parasites, and they cause instabilities in the marketplace so that they can profit off the hard work of others. 

 

Also, my reason isn't just "they have too much". My argument is more complex than that and quite utilitarian. I don't like the adverse way in which these people are using the their power/wealth that has been afforded to them through Runescape, so I am proposing taking it away. A straightforward and simple solution.

[helring]

I don't see why hoarders are in and of themselves a bad thing. They are not necessarily parasites and many of them have earned their wealth in legitimate ways. I believe the negatives of what you are proposing would go beyond those just immediately affected. It would be a change in policy for them to remove what a player has gained when following the rules they have outlined. Its a line they have never crossed before and I don't think many would like that hanging over them. If a player knows that Jagex might at any time remove what they feel they have worked for even if they've seemingly done everything right, then I believe they may leave. I don't think players will want to stick around in a game where the creator has shown a willingness to do that.

 

Put a new system of rules in place but there shouldn't be any sort of ex post facto punishments for the new rules. I still believe it is better to encourage people to spend their money than to force them to do so. Also, where do you draw the line?  Is it only gold so you convince people to just hoard more items? If its items too then what do you expect the hoarders to really do with their money if when they spend it on stuff its still considered part of their wealth. Its more healthy for the game long-term to not penalize those who wish to be successful and keep playing. Its better if the game set up more gold and item sinks within the game that can work long-term than a short-term slash. 

[vmser]

As for the argument on page two about degrading based on hits taken: the Aegis aura deactivates after a certain amount of damage has been avoided, so the mechanic could be in game....

[Wkw]

The money sink (and degrade to dust) aren't inherently bad idea, but when they are sandwiched on top of the rest of the game, they are.

 

For example, if you have 2% on one of your degrades-to-dust items, you can't use it for anything because you might die after it goes poof.

 

Instead of having it turn to dust, the T90 and T85 inferior ports should turn to T65 and T60 armor. Quite inferior to a lot of things. But they shouldn't vanish when they break.

They should also be able to be repaired with the same stuff needed to make them. But they can only be repaired when degraded to 0%, and ONLY up to 50%. They still wouldn't be tradable, either.

So it takes 45 scales/energy for a T90 top? When it hits 0, you can either use 28 of them to repair it to 50%, or 40 of them to repair it to 100%, or just alch or drop it