Do YOU believe in God?

[MyPurpleCrayon]

Why not say it out here?

 

 

 

Because you're trying to carry on a private debate on a public thread.

[hazardmaster]

Why not say it out here?

 

 

 

Because you're trying to carry on a private debate on a public thread.

 

 

 

Why not publicly? This topic is MEANT for deabte about Gods existance? :?

[cheguarana]

"You can't prove there is no God"

 

 

 

By this logic the easter bunny and santa can be real.

[Timmiepimmie]

I do !

[____]

I can't be arsed checked if this has been brought up before...

 

 

 

But I just realised that wouldn't the important thing be why?

[Evilperson]

I haven't looked at this topic for a while and I was reading when I realized why I think what I do.

 

 

 

Personally I hate organized religion. It is so stupid. I might believe in God, if that is what I wish to call it. The reason I hate most Christians and any other typical religion is they think of God of a Person or a Being or something capable of doing something. When in reality, if there even is such a being, it is supposed to be thought of more of an idea. Not something you should pray to for forgiveness or to pray for a specific event to happen. You should have your own ideals and morals.

 

 

 

Organized religion is stupid.

 

 

 

My thoughts.

[Fiery_Gyr]

I haven't looked at this topic for a while and I was reading when I realized why I think what I do.

 

 

 

Personally I hate organized religion. It is so stupid. I might believe in God, if that is what I wish to call it. The reason I hate most Christians and any other typical religion is they think of God of a Person or a Being or something capable of doing something. When in reality, if there even is such a being, it is supposed to be thought of more of an idea. Not something you should pray to for forgiveness or to pray for a specific event to happen. You should have your own ideals and morals.

 

 

 

Organized religion is stupid.

 

 

 

My thoughts.

 

 

 

Nice thought :)

[Astralinre]

I haven't looked at this topic for a while and I was reading when I realized why I think what I do.

 

 

 

Personally I organized religion. It is so stupid. I might believe in God, if that is what I wish to call it. The reason I most Christians and any other typical religion is they think of God of a Person or a Being or something capable of doing something. When in reality, if there even is such a being, it is supposed to be thought of more of an idea. Not something you should pray to for forgiveness or to pray for a specific event to happen. You should have your own ideals and morals.

 

 

 

Organized religion is stupid.

 

 

 

My thoughts.

 

 

 

If you don't mind me asking, how did you reach the conclusion that God would not be a person, but rather an idea? And how is people believing in a personal God justification for hating them? You said you hate organized religion, but is the belief in a personal God the only reason why you do?

 

 

 

You say that people should have their own ideas and morals - what if their idea is that a personal God exists and their morals are that we should obey it?

[my_pet_worm]

"You can't prove there is no God"

 

 

 

By this logic the easter bunny and santa can be real.

 

 

 

Well 'Santa' is a logo created by the Coke-cola company, so duh he ain't real.

 

 

 

Easter time used to be a time of Fertilaty(sp), so that's why they have bunny's and eggs (older people would understand this), so again duh it ain't real.

 

 

 

So your logic is not liable, seeing God was not created by some company or season.

[____]

So you are absolutely certain about that?

[my_pet_worm]

Do people pray to God on a certian date? a certain season? How many company's have copyrights to God? Yea im sure.

[pianofrieak2]

OK, hazardmaster, this is fun debating with you, but you're (no offense) ridiculous.

 

 

 

You keep asking these questions of "how do we know" and I tell you. Then, you say "how do you know that?". We can argue about the nature of knowledge, the absolute nature of truth, and debate modernism v. postmodernism but it all ends up as moot. BTW, I'm not going to quote you because no one knows what we're talking about if I quote you. Just pay attention to what I say.

 

 

 

The Bible says heaven and hell exist. I know they exist because I believe the Bible to be 100% true in all cases, and the Bible says it exists. It doesn't exist because I believe it to be true. After all, it would still exist even if I didn't believe in it, but that's how I know it to be true.

 

 

 

I never said I wanted God in this realm; I don't even believe in him :roll:

 

 

 

Let me be perfectly honest with you: It doesn't matter what you believe because truth is independent of what people believe about it. Gravity exists whether or not I believe it to be true. Truth is truth. God is truth.

 

 

 

Your statement about "I have the right to and will" is what love is all about. God wants you to have choice, which you do, because love can only exist in choice. Whether or not you believe is your decision, but I wouldn't make it too lightly.

 

 

 

This statement I will quote.

 

 

 

Be careful of the deceptive pictures in children's books!

 

 

 

It's not a random book; It's a children's Bible. You're exaggerating (sp?) to put up more of a fight.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, hazard, but that was the most ridiculous response I've heard in my entire debating here in the OT forums. A children's Bible has pictures. The reason the editors of the book put a white man with a brown moustache dressed in white clothing is to make Jesus more like a Father to the kids. After all, God is our heavenly father. It makes him become more personal, a very good trait in my opinion.

 

 

 

I'm exaggerating? Hardly. I'm giving you the reason behind it.

 

 

 

This statement I also will quote:

 

 

 

One word: EYEWITNESSES WHO WROTE DOWN THEIR ACCOUNT.

 

 

 

Prove those eyewitnesses told the truth. I can't prove they lied, either. But what's unproven I will not believe in.

 

 

 

Why? Why would you not believe an eyewitness? Why would you keep doubting everything? If you doubt everything, you don't believe in anything! I have no idea why you are being so stubborn, ridiculous, and doubting to everything. If I believed your statement, I might as well say, "How do I know your thoughts to be true?"

 

 

 

When you say Jesus can't be both fully man and fully human, I say that the Bible says it and it must be true for Jesus to do what the Bible said He did. I can't explain it because it doesn't make sense in our universe of 4 dimensions. (More according to string theory but physical world is what I'm getting at).

 

 

 

As for your point about rats trying to operate a computer, I will tell you the history of Christianity. First off, Christianity grew and grew because the people showed what they believed. They lived it. Then the church got in power, but, as we all know, power corrupts. The church was corrupted (really, the leaders were corrupted). Then, Martin Luther came and eliminated the need for clergy to tell us what to believe. The church began to lose its power over people, and natural leaders rose up to compete with the church. That's not a bad thing, for God said we need government, family, and the church. Eliminating one of those is bad.

 

 

 

The church has lived in its decaying state for too long. Too long have Christians been ignorant. Now, the church is educating its people in philosophy, theology, ethics, bioethics, and all kinds of beliefs. It is finally rising up to its duty.

 

 

 

And you still have an old-fashioned view of the church. That view may be prevalent where you live but it is changing. You also need to see the new view of the church.

 

 

 

As you hopefully can see, I'm trying to give you some information. Whether you choose to listen to it is none of my concern.

 

 

 

 

 

You know this how? You talk, but you don't explain. Back yurself up.

 

 

 

I've already said why I believe the other spiritual realm exists and has more power than our physical realm. You can ask questions all you want, but in the end, you are stuck. You can't disprove the spiritual realm with physical instruments.

 

 

 

So let me turn your question around: How do you know the spiritual realm doesn't exist? "You talk but you don't explain. Back yourself up."

[pianofrieak2]

I haven't looked at this topic for a while and I was reading when I realized why I think what I do.

 

 

 

Personally I organized religion. It is so stupid. I might believe in God, if that is what I wish to call it. The reason I most Christians and any other typical religion is they think of God of a Person or a Being or something capable of doing something. When in reality, if there even is such a being, it is supposed to be thought of more of an idea. Not something you should pray to for forgiveness or to pray for a specific event to happen. You should have your own ideals and morals.

 

 

 

Organized religion is stupid.

 

 

 

My thoughts.

 

 

 

If you don't mind me asking, how did you reach the conclusion that God would not be a person, but rather an idea? And how is people believing in a personal God justification for hating them? You said you hate organized religion, but is the belief in a personal God the only reason why you do?

 

 

 

You say that people should have their own ideas and morals - what if their idea is that a personal God exists and their morals are that we should obey it?

 

 

 

Nice point, Astra. Well made.

 

 

 

It's ironic how intolerant the people who claim tolerance are.

[Astralinre]

I haven't looked at this topic for a while and I was reading when I realized why I think what I do.

 

 

 

Personally I organized religion. It is so stupid. I might believe in God, if that is what I wish to call it. The reason I most Christians and any other typical religion is they think of God of a Person or a Being or something capable of doing something. When in reality, if there even is such a being, it is supposed to be thought of more of an idea. Not something you should pray to for forgiveness or to pray for a specific event to happen. You should have your own ideals and morals.

 

 

 

Organized religion is stupid.

 

 

 

My thoughts.

 

 

 

If you don't mind me asking, how did you reach the conclusion that God would not be a person, but rather an idea? And how is people believing in a personal God justification for hating them? You said you organized religion, but is the belief in a personal God the only reason why you do?

 

 

 

You say that people should have their own ideas and morals - what if their idea is that a personal God exists and their morals are that we should obey it?

 

 

 

Nice point, Astra. Well made.

 

 

 

It's ironic how intolerant the people who claim tolerance are.

 

 

 

Well, while it's true that tolerant people tend to be intolerant of intolerant people, that wasn't really my point. In fact, I didn't really have a point, I was just trying to get him to elaborate on his beliefs. :)

[AznElliot518]

I believe that god is a concept. He was invented by people as a beacon of hope to help people carry on with their lives. When they are feeling down and with no one to turn to, they turn to god.

[xxshady]

I agree with pianofreak.

 

 

 

Also, Christianity is like the most hated religion so trying to explain it to people is trying to explain how the sun gets its energy to a mentally [developmentally delayed]ed person. :lol:

 

 

 

In the end, everyone will say "I dont care because i dont believe in God" or the all-famous "How do you know that God exists?"

[my_pet_worm]

In the end, everyone will say "I dont care because i dont believe in God" or the all-famous "How do you know that God exists?"

 

 

 

Or "Why should I go to your religion over others?"

[bearofthunder]

Here is why our many different interpretations of god are all incorrect.

 

 

 

Assumptions held by the major religions:

 

 

 

God is moral

 

God is not moral. He determines entrance to heaven based on whether one believes in the correct religion. Those who perform good deeds but belong to the incorrect religion are not accepted by him.

 

 

 

God gives us free will to turn to him or abandon him

 

God is all-knowing. Thus, the course of our lives have already been predetermined. Those who burn in hell are destined to burn in hell, and those who ascend to heaven are destined to ascend to heaven.

 

------------------

 

Does this mean that we have an immoral god? No, but it does show that our organized religions are incorrigibly human in that

 

 

 

- The things they differ in are fundamental to the beliefs in each one.

 

- The things they agree on are wrong.

 

 

 

Attempts to define god and pinpoint which religion out of all the religions on earth really had supernatural prophets and supernatural events should be left to those actually in their afterlife.

 

 

 

One quick response:

 

 

 

 

Well 'Santa' is a logo created by the Coke-cola company, so duh he ain't real.

 

 

 

Easter time used to be a time of Fertilaty(sp), so that's why they have bunny's and eggs (older people would understand this), so again duh it ain't real.

 

 

 

So your logic is not liable, seeing God was not created by some company or season.

 

 

 

Do people pray to God on a certian date? a certain season? How many company's have copyrights to God? Yea im sure.

 

 

 

But copyrights didn't exist back when Mary and the apostles got together.

[Guest GhostRanger]

God gives us free will to turn to him or abandon him

 

God is all-knowing. Thus, the course of our lives have already been predetermined. Those who burn in hell are destined to burn in hell, and those who ascend to heaven are destined to ascend to heaven.

 

 

 

You're mixing two different ideas. Just because God knows what's going to happen, doesn't DISCOUNT the idea that you are still choosing. He might know what choices you are going to make, but you are still making the choices. His knowledge doesn't determine destiny, it's only the knowledge of what will happen.

[my_pet_worm]

But copyrights didn't exist back when Mary and the apostles got together.

 

 

 

Lol yea i know, just making my point 8-)

[pianofrieak2]

Here is why our many different interpretations of god are all incorrect.

 

 

 

Assumptions held by the major religions:

 

 

 

God is moral

 

God is not moral. He determines entrance to heaven based on whether one believes in the correct religion. Those who perform good deeds but belong to the incorrect religion are not accepted by him.

 

 

 

Let me clarify.

 

 

 

God is good. His nature determines morality, so He's not really moral. He is good, but only He determines what is good and bad. Anything that is unlike God is "bad" while anything that is like God is good. God is love, so love is good. God is truth, so truth is good. Conversely, lying is bad. Etc.

 

 

 

God gives us free will to turn to him or abandon him

 

God is all-knowing. Thus, the course of our lives have already been predetermined. Those who burn in hell are destined to burn in hell, and those who ascend to heaven are destined to ascend to heaven.

 

 

 

While Ghostranger pretty much hit the nail on the head, we are now getting into Calvinism. You're talking about double predestination, but let's not go there. It's too complicated.

 

 

 

God's foreknowledge does not take away free will. It is God's free will that enables us to have true love, for robots cannot "love." True love is not forced, which is why God had free will. He wants love. And He gives love. Unconditionally.

 

 

 

But because He is righteous, hell exists. If you believe in heaven and God, then you MUST believe in hell, for God is righteous (cannot reward evil) and pure (cannot be in contact with evil). Those who have not accepted Jesus as their perfect sacrifice are tainted with sin whereas followers of Christ have accepted that sacrifice to atone for their sin. When God looks at His followers, He sees His perfect Son's blood. Perfect.

 

 

 

 

 

Does this mean that we have an immoral god? No, but it does show that our organized religions are incorrigibly human in that

 

 

 

- The things they differ in are fundamental to the beliefs in each one.

 

- The things they agree on are wrong.

 

 

 

Attempts to define god and pinpoint which religion out of all the religions on earth really had supernatural prophets and supernatural events should be left to those actually in their afterlife.

 

 

 

If you really compare all of the religions, you will see they all agree on a morality for all people. Lying is wrong for all people, etc.

 

 

 

If you really want, I can give you a quick synopsis of all of the religions and tell you why Christianity is the only true one, but I'll have to find my book which is on my shelf somewhere.

 

 

 

I will agree with you in saying that the main religions differ on the fundamental beliefs of each one and tend to agree on meaningless doctrine. But, I will say that every religion BESIDES CHRISTIANITY focuses on works.

 

 

 

Islam-good must outweigh bad for heaven

 

Judaism-follow the traditions and motions

 

Hinduism-more good than bad=reincarnated higher until you get bliss

 

 

 

All other religions are basically sub-genres of those, but you get my point.

 

 

 

Christianity alone says all can be saved if you look to someone beyond yourself for true salvation. One sin cuts off the bridge between you and God, and only one man, Jesus, can fix that bridge again. It doesn't matter if you have all the sins in the world or one white lie. We are all on equal footing: broken contact with God.

[HugATree]

God gives us free will to turn to him or abandon him

 

God is all-knowing. Thus, the course of our lives have already been predetermined. Those who burn in hell are destined to burn in hell, and those who ascend to heaven are destined to ascend to heaven.

 

 

 

You're mixing two different ideas. Just because God knows what's going to happen, doesn't DISCOUNT the idea that you are still choosing. He might know what choices you are going to make, but you are still making the choices. His knowledge doesn't determine destiny, it's only the knowledge of what will happen.

 

Which means exactly that, predetermined destiny with the illusion of freewill; you're describing the knowledge of the future while at the same time saying people can still change the future.

[Anesthesia]

His knowledge doesn't determine destiny, it's only the knowledge of what will happen.

 

 

 

"Knowledge of what will happen"

 

 

 

That acknowledges it will happen. If it will happen then choice is only an illusion. Whilst it isn't the same as destiny, it does not equate to free will either. It's predeterminism.

[HugATree]

That acknowledges it will happen. If it will happen then choice is only an illusion. Whilst it isn't the same as destiny, it does not equate to free will either. It's predeterminism.

 

How does it differ from destiny:- an event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future?

[bearofthunder]

 

Christianity alone says all can be saved if you look to someone beyond yourself for true salvation. One sin cuts off the bridge between you and God, and only one man, Jesus, can fix that bridge again. It doesn't matter if you have all the sins in the world or one white lie. We are all on equal footing: broken contact with God.

 

 

 

All you have stated is that Christianity uses a different method. That still does not prove it is the correct religion.

 

 

 

 

You're mixing two different ideas. Just because God knows what's going to happen, doesn't DISCOUNT the idea that you are still choosing. He might know what choices you are going to make, but you are still making the choices. His knowledge doesn't determine destiny, it's only the knowledge of what will happen.

 

 

 

If he knows what choices I am going to make before I make them, then what free will do I have?

 

 

 

It is impossible for god, as he is defined by living humans, to be good. He already has knowledge of who will go to heaven and who will go to hell, so the only way that he would be good is if he unconditionally accepted everyone into heaven, regardless of any requirements. Obviously, this is an unreasonable suggestion. Hence, our human definitions of god are wrong.

 

 

 

 

Also, Christianity is like the most hated religion so trying to explain it to people is trying to explain how the sun gets its energy to a mentally mentally challenged person.

 

 

 

No, a mentally challenged person has no capability to understand how the sun works. In contrast, an atheist or agnostic does have the capability to believe in Christianity. The problem is that one cannot believe in something until its internal, illogical convolutions (e.g. predestination) has been sorted out. Of course, that is not likely to happen because religion, unlike science, refuses to modify and improve itself.

 

 

 

 

Or "Why should I go to your religion over others?"

 

Why should I?

 

That question has never been answered by any religion. I know that some religions are different from others, but I do not know which one is correct.

 

 

 

 

God is good. His nature determines morality, so He's not really moral. He is good, but only He determines what is good and bad. Anything that is unlike God is "bad" while anything that is like God is good. God is love, so love is good. God is truth, so truth is good. Conversely, lying is bad. Etc.

 

 

 

God cannot represent goodness because he is aware and has always been aware that some people descend into hell. You cannot claim innocence for something that controlls all. In other words, god (as defined by humans) encompasses both sides of the scale, so it would be illogical to claim that he represents one side.