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Open carry and gun law discussion


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#1
Riku3220
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I live in Texas and right now a big dividing issue among Texans is the new open carry law that just went into motion. Open carry is the ability to visibly show that you're carrying a firearm in public without having it be a criminal offense. As of January 1st, open carry became legal in Texas for anyone who has a handgun license (longarms such as rifles don't require a license), and on August 1st, citizens will be able to concealed carry their weapons on public college campuses. Businesses and private property owners can forbid firearms (both concealed and open carry) on their property as long as they display the proper signage.The law, coming in after what seems to have been a year of constant mass shootings, has of course prompted debate. Both pro-open carry and anti-open carry people are boycotting stores that don't see eye to eye with them. People have quit their jobs citing that they no longer feel safe when the people they have to deal with are able to openly carry guns.

 

So being that I have the opportunity to discuss this with a wide variety of people from around the world, what do you all think about this? Would you personally feel threatened or in danger if you saw somebody with a gun? If you don't like the idea of open carry would you still be okay with concealed carry? Also I'm curious to know about how much experience you all have with guns, and if you think your opinion would be different if you lived in a more gun tolerant/intolerant country. 

 

My dad was in the military and my mom was a police officer so they've both have been around guns and have had training for awhile. They own a few and go to the range every couple of weeks just as a fun thing to do. They both have had permits since only concealed carry was allowed but they never really took their guns out unless they were going to the range and they don't have any plans to openly carry. They never really brought guns into our home until I was a teenager but even then, growing up in Texas/Oklahoma/Missouri with friends whose parents were either avid hunters or also military/police I was never really sheltered from guns. I was never afraid for my life that one day either my friends or their parents would snap and go on a shooting spree or anything like that. They've all had training. They all knew how to use and handle their weapons safely. A few people have told me that they were considering transferring to a school out of state because they didn't want to be around people openly carrying, but I don't really see the sense in it. Personally I'd much rather know that somebody has a gun than not know if they have a gun and the way I see it, if somebody wanted to shoot up a place they'd do it with or without the open carry or even concealed carry laws.

 

I know that gun control debates have been getting heated in these last couple years, but try to keep the discussion civil.

 

FAQ about Texas open carry laws


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#2
obfuscator
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Was talking to a guy about this. He said the main purpose of the law was to prevent people who are carrying concealed from being prosecuted if their gun becomes visible by accident (think a hiked up shirt or something).

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#3
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I don't really understand why open carry is less legal than concealed carry. Seems like the latter is more dangerous, as you don't know who's got a weapon, and it less serves the "guns keep you safe by intimidating criminals" thing gun owners like to claim.

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#4
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Guns make me very nervous.
I know nothing about them and I come from a gun intolerant nation.

#5
Riku3220
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Guns make me very nervous.
I know nothing about them and I come from a gun intolerant nation.

Perhaps the next trip you make into the U.S. you could stop by a gun show or a firing range. I feel like you won't be as nervous once you experience them a little.


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#6
MuffinMaddy
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Guns make me very nervous.
I know nothing about them and I come from a gun intolerant nation.

Perhaps the next trip you make into the U.S. you could stop by a gun show or a firing range. I feel like you won't be as nervous once you experience them a little.
It doesn't work that way for me sadly. I react terribly in situations where I'm afraid. I completely lose the ability to think rationally and stay composed. I just do anything I can to leave the situation as soon as possible. Guns are just one part of a long list of fears I have. Bad experiences have led to my fear of any sudden loud noises or bright flashes.

#7
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Seriously, why the [bleep] do you need to carry a gun around everywhere you go?

If someone shoots you first, you can't do jack shit, cause you dead/disabled.

 

And why the [bleep] would you shoot first?

 

And you can have and wear long rifles without license?

That is the most [bleep]ed up insane thing I have heard.

 

I don't have a gun. I have shot them at ranges though.

I understand if people want to keep something at home, just in case someone really comes to rob (but seriously, why would they if you are in any way reasonable and don't show yourself as an easy target. much easier to jack a car).

But in that case, people should get a license. So that not every lunatic can get a gun from a random Wal-Mart as it is right now.

Psychological checks, background checks, everything should be performed.

That is to keep guns off the hands of the mentally unstable guys (who, as far as I have understood, are most ones behind mass shootings in the US). Those who might just one day click and think hey, I'm gonna shoot my wife and kids and other kids in the school because life sucks.

 

And about that terrorist attack prevention, you can't do jack shit if someone does perform a pre-planned attack.


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#8
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That is to keep guns off the hands of the mentally unstable guys (who, as far as I have understood, are most ones behind mass shootings in the US). Those who might just one day click and think hey, I'm gonna shoot my wife and kids and other kids in the school because life sucks.
 
And about that terrorist attack prevention, you can't do jack shit if someone does perform a pre-planned attack.


The FBI (or other agencies) don't track mental illness rates with homicides, but it's more likely (as a mentally ill person) to be a victim of gun violence than to perpetuate it. It could be argued that mass shooters have a higher rates of mental illness, but mass shootings are a fraction of total gun homicides (let alone deaths). Suicides, in fact, are the leading cause of gun-related deaths, and a large portion of them are veterans of the military (and police officers, I think?).

The horrible stigmas about mental illness propagated even by so-called progressive members of society is incredibly disgusting and why at most I say I have a health issue (mental health issue if I have to clarify) that impacts my life, because saying "unspecified schizophrenic spectrum disorder" or "psychotic illness" or whatever else cause a much less desirable effect, as if I'm some monster or animal. Which is funny, because I find it grating when there's calls for psychological tests for guns, but a whimper of progress regarding the horrid state of mental health treatment in this country. Like Republicans/conservatives saying there's lots of homeless/needy people here we can't help so we shouldn't help refugees--well, no duh, you're the reason welfare services suck because you're against helping the homeless/needy!

As far as guns are concerned, it's a dangerous game restricting them upon the complex nature of the second amendment. The safest route would be repealing it (and it would be something I support if citizens were given broader rights to holding elected officials and the government itself accountable, but that's not going to happen anytime soon...), so sensible, effective, and rational legislation is needed instead. Because otherwise, depending on how precedent is made (e.g., whatever flavor of judge [even at the Supreme Court level] you find that vomit your party's rhetoric [though to be fair judges, even the most conservative of them, tend to be much more objective in any remotely important courts than what their political views may indicate]), you could find the other, much more valuable rights like the first (free speech/press/religion/assembly) and fourth (limitation of surveillance/searching via warrants and judicial review) and fifth (self-incrimination) amendment and others, assuming it's in the name of greater public good or whatever else and thus could apply to these in the legal court or political opinions of voters. Not to mention a lot of legislation is ineffective or pointless (like "assault weapons," a term created to target superficial features of weapons that look scary and are marginally more dangerous, if at all, than handguns or rifles or shotguns). If a weapon can be banned simply because it looks scary or because criminals will use it, then we might as well restrict/regulate/neuter encryption (which was regulated by the government as a weapon!) because it's scary and can be used by criminals...


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#9
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Guns make me very nervous.
I know nothing about them and I come from a gun intolerant nation.

Perhaps the next trip you make into the U.S. you could stop by a gun show or a firing range. I feel like you won't be as nervous once you experience them a little.
It doesn't work that way for me sadly. I react terribly in situations where I'm afraid. I completely lose the ability to think rationally and stay composed. I just do anything I can to leave the situation as soon as possible. Guns are just one part of a long list of fears I have. Bad experiences have led to my fear of any sudden loud noises or bright flashes.

 

 

 

1. The noise isn't loud if you are wearing the proper hearing protection

2. The noise isn't sudden since you know when you are pulling the trigger

3. There are no bright flashes (unless shooting in the dark which is dangerous and wouldn't happen at a range)

4. I don't think you've ever even seen a gun that wasn't in the movies

 

 

 

 

I think that people who have grown up around guns (used safely) are a lot less fearful of them because they are more used to them being properly used. To me it is kind of like dogs. I'd be more scared of a large dog out in public without a leash on than someone carrying a gun in the open. That's probably because I've never had a dog and all I ever see them do is jump on people and bark a lot (but we all know how harmless dogs are for the most part).


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#10
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I'm from Mississippi, and I'm fine with it. If every law abiding citizen has a gun for every one postal psychopath I think it'll be for the best.



#11
Ring_World
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Seriously, why the [bleep] do you need to carry a gun around everywhere you go?

If someone shoots you first, you can't do jack shit, cause you dead/disabled.

 

And why the [bleep] would you shoot first?

 

And you can have and wear long rifles without license?

That is the most [bleep]ed up insane thing I have heard.

 

I don't have a gun. I have shot them at ranges though.

I understand if people want to keep something at home, just in case someone really comes to rob (but seriously, why would they if you are in any way reasonable and don't show yourself as an easy target. much easier to jack a car).

But in that case, people should get a license. So that not every lunatic can get a gun from a random Wal-Mart as it is right now.

Psychological checks, background checks, everything should be performed.

That is to keep guns off the hands of the mentally unstable guys (who, as far as I have understood, are most ones behind mass shootings in the US). Those who might just one day click and think hey, I'm gonna shoot my wife and kids and other kids in the school because life sucks.

 

And about that terrorist attack prevention, you can't do jack shit if someone does perform a pre-planned attack.

 

I agree with this, & I think it should be harder to get a gun license than a car license.

 

As far as the mass shootings though thats a different issue. Mass shooters are committing terrorism and the guaranteed media explosion is their motivation, whether its to advance a political/social goal or personal infamy. A media censorship on terrorism would be more effective at preventing domestic terrorism than disarming, because its just as easy to kill a dozen people with a car as it is with a gun, and still very much possible with a knife or a bat.  



#12
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Guns make me very nervous.
I know nothing about them and I come from a gun intolerant nation.

Perhaps the next trip you make into the U.S. you could stop by a gun show or a firing range. I feel like you won't be as nervous once you experience them a little.
It doesn't work that way for me sadly. I react terribly in situations where I'm afraid. I completely lose the ability to think rationally and stay composed. I just do anything I can to leave the situation as soon as possible. Guns are just one part of a long list of fears I have. Bad experiences have led to my fear of any sudden loud noises or bright flashes.

 

 

 

1. The noise isn't loud if you are wearing the proper hearing protection

2. The noise isn't sudden since you know when you are pulling the trigger

3. There are no bright flashes (unless shooting in the dark which is dangerous and wouldn't happen at a range)

4. I don't think you've ever even seen a gun that wasn't in the movies

 

 

 

 

I think that people who have grown up around guns (used safely) are a lot less fearful of them because they are more used to them being properly used. To me it is kind of like dogs. I'd be more scared of a large dog out in public without a leash on than someone carrying a gun in the open. That's probably because I've never had a dog and all I ever see them do is jump on people and bark a lot (but we all know how harmless dogs are for the most part).

 

 

You are probably onto something when you suggest that if I see guns being used properly and safely that I will probably be less nervous around them. 

Point number 4 isn't true but it doesn't actually mean that I would feel less nervous just because I've seen a gun in real life.

Having said that, I am naturally wary of dogs, I was bitten by one as a child, but over time I have seen the good side of dogs. My boyfriend has a dog and I love her a lot. I can see that she is a good dog and even though she is territorial, she has never hurt anybody before. His brother also has a dog, who is harmless but super annoying. My best friend also has a dog, who is a follower and basically stalks the person he chooses until he gets bored. Either way, my fear of dogs has decreased because of my experiences with good dogs. I now know confidently that not all dogs are out to get me, and even though unfortunate things happen with dogs, they aren't the norm.

 

In theory, this could be applied to my fear of guns and if I see them in a normalised setting where they are being responsibly used, then my fear would decrease slightly.

It does not help, though, when you read stories in UK media for example about a gun instructor being killed by his student and the video being published online.



#13
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I fully support open carry, but it needs to be exercised responsibility. You aren't helping your cause when you show up to a restaurant with a mall ninja AR-15 on your back.



#14
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Agree with open carry. 


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#15
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I fully support open carry, but it needs to be exercised responsibility. You aren't helping your cause when you show up to a restaurant with a mall ninja AR-15 on your back.

Agreeing with this.

 

I'm really not a fan of guns, but I don't really see a reason for openly carrying them to be a criminal offense if you're already legally allowed to own/carry a gun at all. I'd think it makes more sense to make guns and gun licenses harder to get than it does to keep the people who already have them from carrying.



#16
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Make licenses harder to get and I don't see a problem. Full mental, physical, psychological evaluation for anyone wanting to get a gun. Hell it'd create jobs, what's not to love?

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#17
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What is fun is that right now there is a gun law discussion publicly in Estonia aswell.

Per the EU directives, the government wants to forbid all semi-automatic guns and rifles aswell. And to forbid members of the local National Guard and law enforcement agencies to take these weapons home. And make harsher the laws regulating the safekeeping of guns. Automatics/burst fire weapons are already forbidden in civilian use.

Now completely banning them is a bit too harsh, because I actually quite like the current gun laws here. Getting a gun permit ain't that hard, you need to have a clean record, medical and psychological certificates and pay a certain fee. Also you have to perform a weapons exam on the sort of weapon you have/want/get (different exams for pistols, revolvers, hunting rifles, questions are like for example, how to perform first aid on people with gun wounds and how to safely store and use the weapons).

After that you are free to own a gun. If you own a single gun, you don't even need a gun locker, provided you have a correct holster/whatever for the gun. But more than one and you are legally required to have a lockable gun locker.


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#18
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I don't want a gun but I'm not gonna be the guy to threaten to take the guy's gun that owns one. Being around guns makes me uncomfortable. Something that's designed specifically to end human life has no place in my hands. Or near me. It makes me unfocused. Not even for my safety, I've just been so sheltered from it that if I see a gun it's basically all I focus on. Not ideal in a school or workplace honestly. But that's why they're allowed to ban open carry. So I'll close with this; country side can do what it wants with gun laws but that shit won't go well in the city

 

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#19
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Never understood why people bang on about open carry. The alternatives are concealed carry, which (if you're a person who dislikes and/or fears guns) seems worse, or not being able to walk around with them at all, which seems fairly bad for the self defense bit.


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#20
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Seriously, how many times have you seen anyone use gun in self-defense? Do you know anyone who has used a gun in self-defence?

Carrying a gun for self-defence only makes sense in upper-Northern Canada and Svalbard and Greenland, where they do have polar bears roaming aroung who actually can attack and kill you.

I think I can count on the fingers of one hand for how many times the cops in the whole country have had to use a gun for the whole last year for anything other than a warning/attention shot in the air.


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