Does this mean we can report threads that are all about luring from single to multi combat?

 

 

 

No. Moving from single to multi-combat is a perfectly legit tactic in the wilderness.

 

 

 

Luring someone from non-wilderness to the wilderness is against the rules. If you see a video showing this, please report it :)

Another dismal decision from a company that constantly caters to the lowest common denominator of people. As usual, the accountability for actions has been removed from those who don't bother reading the signs, don't bother understanding the game, and don't bother using common sense when they play runescape.

 

 

 

I can't imagine blaming someone else for my own ignorance, going into an area that, as Jagex states, is a well-documented pking area, and expecting not to lose my items. Forget the "sign saving you", anyone who goes into the wilderness is fully informed of the dangers and those who choose to expose themselves to that should pay the penalty.

 

 

 

Furthermore, I don't understand how those trying to profit from the ignorance of others can be blamed for that ignorance. A party hat pk is a party hat pk, no matter how you cut it, and to be honest, all of them are well-earned, because you've either bested a rich person in combat, or in common sense.

 

 

 

People who hate luring are nothing more than childish gamers who can't deal with the risk and reward of entering clearly dangerous areas with valuable items that they are unprepared to lose despite the well-known, inherent risk of going into the wilderness.

 

 

 

I guess the children win again. Good job guys.

 

 

 

Bottom line about luring is this: the way I play the game doesn't reflect what kind of person I am, because runescape does not track how nice i am to other players, it keeps track of what is in my bank and if i decide to lure you, you can call me NH or a noob or whatever, but all the game knows is that you're dead, i'm alive and i have your stuff. People need to start playing the game instead of complaining about their own shortcomings and about the greater skill and experience of others.

Another dismal decision from a company that constantly caters to the lowest common denominator of people. As usual, the accountability for actions has been removed from those who don't bother reading the signs, don't bother understanding the game, and don't bother using common sense when they play runescape.

 

 

 

I can't imagine blaming someone else for my own ignorance, going into an area that, as Jagex states, is a well-documented pking area, and expecting not to lose my items. Forget the "sign saving you", anyone who goes into the wilderness is fully informed of the dangers and those who choose to expose themselves to that should pay the penalty.

 

 

 

Furthermore, I don't understand how those trying to profit from the ignorance of others can be blamed for that ignorance. A party hat pk is a party hat pk, no matter how you cut it, and to be honest, all of them are well-earned, because you've either bested a rich person in combat, or in common sense.

 

 

 

People who hate luring are nothing more than childish gamers who can't deal with the risk and reward of entering clearly dangerous areas with valuable items that they are unprepared to lose despite the well-known, inherent risk of going into the wilderness.

 

 

 

I guess the children win again. Good job guys.

 

 

 

Bottom line about luring is this: the way I play the game doesn't reflect what kind of person I am, because runescape does not track how nice i am to other players, it keeps track of what is in my bank and if i decide to lure you, you can call me NH or a noob or whatever, but all the game knows is that you're dead, i'm alive and i have your stuff. People need to start playing the game instead of complaining about their own shortcomings and about the greater skill and experience of others.

 

 

 

I utterly disagree with your points on this matter.

 

 

 

This was an excellent decision by Jagex who took a stand against abhorrent treatment of players by other players in the game. Arguing for such scams to be permitted is the opposite of arguing for accountability of players in the game. Instead it places the emphasis on bullying and deceitful conduct over and above that mutual respect and common sense in game-play.

 

 

 

It's common sense that players, unlike their characters in the game, are real people. Only by adopting the point-of-view of a complete solipsism, would it be possible to treat others with no regard nor awareness that they are real persons who also participate in the game. To believe such misconduct against other real people should be condoned, is simply fallacious diversion in an attempt to escape the consequences of abusive conduct towards other players.

 

 

 

This form of abusive conduct was strongly rejected by all mature players in the game.

 

 

 

If a small minority can only achieve success in-game by lying and deceiving others, than that's the reverse of seeking to test one's ability to play the game skilfully and test one's characters abilities legitimately against another's. It was the antithesis of fair-play, and was not tolerated as a legitimate form of game-play by the clear majority of players in our community, who strongly signalled to Jagex that it was unacceptable.

 

 

 

This is why Luring others into dangerous locations under false pretences was clarified as also being against the rules, and correctly labelled as Item Scamming. It does not follow, then, that the clarification of Rule 2 was made solely for the reasons of protecting children. Simply put: no player, who was honest with themselves, liked the idea being mislead and lied to about the intentions of other players. As such, no player who acknowledged the base principle in Rule 2 could argue that seeking to deprive others of their items by deliberate lies was not at base: Item Scamming.

 

 

 

Blaming the victim of a scam did not make such deliberate lies any less damaging to the game-play of other players or to the player community. Rather than enhancing game-play for all players, the tactics of lurers were doing a lot of harm to both the reputations of PKers, PK-ing Clans, and Non-PKers alike.

 

 

 

If Jagex had not agreed, and clarified the rule, it's likely irreparable damage would've been done to RuneScape and it's player community. In fact, Rule 2 was in great jeopardy given it already included a base definition that deceptive conduct to deprive other players of items was Item Scamming. By clarifying that luring into dangerous locations in-game, while lying about the dangers involved in such lures, was also a scam it ensured the integrity of that rule was maintained.

 

 

 

This does not affect legitimate PK-ing matches or the actions PKers or who all know the dangers involved.

 

 

 

In fact players who now enter the Wilderness are more free than before now to seek fun and potential rewards for the risks involved in that form of game-play. It's only now that it's been clarified, that misconduct has been excluded as a legitimate form of game-play that there is a strong onus on the common sense and mutual respect between all players.

 

 

 

All those now who now deliberately involve their characters in the risk of item loss as part of the game can do so without the stigma of Item Scamming. Any player that now that knowingly engages in PK-ing or enters the Wilderness for their own purposes in order to obtain the rewards located there, now knows that in doing so, there is a great risk of item loss due to PvP combat.

 

 

 

That now cannot now be confused with the form of deceptive conduct that previously allowed luring into the Wilderness to escape the penalties of Item Scamming.

While your arguments are well constructed, they are incorrect, and I stand by my previous convictions.

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅAbhorrent treatment of playersÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

While your arguments are well constructed, they are incorrect, and I stand by my previous convictions.

 

 

 

ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅAbhorrent treatment of playersÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

If you were lured before the ditch, chances are you're still going to be lured after the ditch. You can't fix idiocy, no matter how hard you try. Anyone who is, was, and will be lured is a moron and shouldn't be protected. Period.

 

 

 

Read the warning signs and don't trade two steps away from the wilderness. How hard is that? Really...

 

 

 

By the way... I was ranging black dragons and thig guy said he'd grab my arrows for me. Well, he kept them and laughed at me. I think I'm gonna' report him under 'item scamming', as he lied to me for personal gain.

Leaving ones items on the ground and deliberately failing to pick them up is a completely different scenario.

 

 

 

Lying to another player in order to entrap them into a dangerous situation they would not otherwise go bares no similarity.

Fey I feel that your ideas of what is acceptable and what is not are poorly supported by Jagex and by the intelligent gaming community. Furthermore, I find Andrew Gower's statement about luring to be illogical and erroneous, and I feel that not all luring can be placed in the same category. To illustrate this point I will use an example that you have given in this thread: dropping items at the edge of the wilderness in order to "deceive" other players. This is akin to sending someone a letter asking them to jump off a bridge and being charged with attempted murder.

 

 

 

I would like to start by saying that anyone who falls for this is a [bleep]ing idiot. As has been stated many times, the knowledge of the risks of the wilderness is available and presented to everyone that plays Runescape. Everybody knows where the wilderness is and what happens when you go in it.

 

 

 

The problem is that you and the narrow-minded implings at Jagex are slaves to the idea that people have no choices and they are being manipulated.

 

 

 

If I see a whip sitting in level 1 wilderness on the ground, I am NOT being scammed, I am only being forced to make a CHOICE.

 

 

 

1. Succumb to my own greed, run out and try to grab the whip and escape, risking the loss of any other items I might be carrying.

 

 

 

2. Weight the value of the items in my inventory against the value of the whip and decide whether or not I am willing to take the risk of running into the wilderness with whatever I have on me.

 

 

 

3. Recognize the possibility that there could be pkers there and choose to ignore the whip, with the assumption that it is likely a lure. It may or may not be a lure, I may never find out, but I have not needlessly risked any of the items I was carrying.

 

 

 

4. Bank and grab food/armour and hope to get back in time to maybe still grab that whip.

 

 

 

Fey I completely agree that it is wrong to verbally manipulate other people within the game, but I think that lying to someone and saying some area is safe when it really isn't does not fall into the same category as dropping an item somewhere and then seeing if someone wants to pick it up. As an outside entity, it is unreasonable for a person to interfere with and contradict the mechanisms of the game that are designed to caution players against entering unsafe areas.

 

 

 

That being said, I believe that using the functions of the game in order to lure is acceptable conduct. I think it's ridiculous that Jagex has deemed it improper to drop certain item in certain areas of the game. Without being verbally influenced by another player, you are left only with the situation and you own knowledge to determine what actions you want to take.

 

 

 

Anyone, especially Mr. Gower, who feels that people going into the wilderness don't know the risks is full of [cabbage]. There's a knowledge base, signs everywhere, there's a [bleep]ing trench, there's a pop-up warning when you cross that trench. If at this point you can't say that if you run into the wilderness and lose your [cabbage] it's your own damn fault, then I don't know when we'll ever get to that point.

 

 

 

The actual problem is not that people don't know the risk, it's that people are so greedy and stupid that they don't bother to evaluate situations before they take risks, and they always take risks, even those that are unneccesary. Clearly the other problem is that these players aren't ready to take responsibility for their own poor decision making, so they blame it on whoever profits from it.

 

 

 

Luring entirely fits with the risk and reward in the wilderness, the only problem is that people who get lured are so immature about it because they've done something ignorant that they don't accept the consequences of their actions and instead [bleep] about it on forums so we can get more stupid rules like this.

 

 

 

Even Jagex feels that the dangers of the wilderness are "well-documented" within the game. It is contradictory to then turn around and state that "the idea all along was the people going there know the risks, and it's a risk they willingly choose to take", this time to imply that people don't know the risks of the wilderness at all.

 

 

 

I strongly think that there needs to be a distinction between people who verbally lie to players and people who do non-verbal things like tele-group ice plateau or drop items at the edge of wilderness. If you do these things and then lie and tell people it's safe, that's one thing, but I can't see how using the game, and your abilities in the game outside of bug abuse could be ruled an illegal action. It's [bleep]ing stupid and makes no sense.

Hi gpacX,

 

 

 

While you are entitled to your views on this issue, it's an issue that's been decided. Impugning error on the part of Jagex or other players, though your won't to do so, does not make these tactics it fair-play or in the spirit of the game.

 

 

 

It was clearly apparent some players utilised features of the Wilderness to entrap as well as deceive less knowledgeable players about the dangers in those areas. Those who deceived whether by omission or coaxing through deception, did so deliberately in order deprive many players of their items for their own personal again. In addition they did in such a widespread way, and with no regard for other players in the game, that this clearly became a problem for many players, even those who had not been victims of it. It's the broader reaction by the many players who had not been lured who reacted against it.

 

 

 

The worst part of all those instances was that those who were victims of these tactics were in no way willing participants, nor did they wish to take part in, nor engage in the risk derived from this misuse of features Jagex's game. These instances were apparently enough of a problem to the community that it wished to send a clear message these tactics were not something Jagex should allow or tolerate. Jagex agreed and determined this misuse to be against their rules of the game.

 

 

 

Some players may still wish to continue misuse features in the game to take items from other players through what ever means they deem should be possible. I suggest that it's unlikely such luring needs to be permitted, given as you pointed out, there are so many ways to make gold or items in the game, it's not affecting anyone's ability to play and accumulate ample wealth in the game.

 

 

 

As for the experience of shared game-play - to argue that preventing such tactics is hurting the game seems contradictory. The tactics that were used were so widely unpopular among players in the community, not just among the victims, that Jagex saw fit to publish the clarification in detail, as well as applying fixes to the game.

 

 

 

Arguments for Luring as part of the game, were as Andrew stated, 'not on' as it was not an intended or fair-use of those PvP features.

 

 

 

For all these reasons such misuse of the Wilderness's PvP features, won't be made legal in the game to allow such a [bleep]e in Luring into the Wilderness again.

 

 

 

While it may make you feel good to post like that against me here, it does not prove that fair-play should be compromised nor does it necessarily follow that the spirit of the game should be undermined by a few players being permitted again by the rules to begin luring in those ways.

 

 

 

If you really wish to take this further you will need to take it up with Jagex. Posting angrily at me or about them here won't change anything.

 

 

 

If you have a problem with this sticky, anything I've posted, or discussion on this thread then I suggest you inform Tip.It Moderators. I am merely another player here. So attempting to 'win-against' me here does nothing to win your apparent cause against Jagex or it's rules. Feel free to state your claims against me or call me what you wish; it really makes no difference to your arguments against Jagex's rules of the game.

 

 

 

I made no claim as to the intelligence or lack thereof of any player. It was however clear to a larger number of players given the outcry that Luring was not something, many I suspect who would consider themselves intelligent players, wanted in their game.

 

 

 

Regards, Fey.

haha, it has nothing to do with winning against you, it is everything to do with the mental stimulation that comes as the result of an intelligent conversation. I'm certainly not angry, either at Jagex, or at you personally about any of these issues, and I fully understand that it's already been decided.

 

 

 

The fact that I am critical of jagex, its' decisions, and many of its players, should not imply that I am crusading against Jagex or anyone else, it should largely suggest that I am interested in my own enjoyment of the game that I pay to play, and trust me, I am extremely aware that my definition of fair play (anything outside bug abuse, to use the mechanisms of the game to ones' advantage) is different from the definition that other players use (bug abuse and actions deceptive or misleading).

 

 

 

I understand that as a moderator for Jagex you are somewhat obligated to support their ideas, and I'm sure that on a personal level you don't altogether disagree with them either, which is fine, more power to you. However, you would do well to remember that these suggestions about what "fair play" means come from a body of gamers the many of whom, i would venture to say, if polled, would suggest that teleporting from the wilderness and praying 1 vs 1 in the wilderness are unfair tactics, when clearly they are not.

 

 

 

 

 

I have never stated that Jagex should change their rules, of make luring legal, I have simply made the case that there are grounds to support the idea of luring as a legitimate pking tactic, knowing full well that the majority of runescape disagrees with me.

 

 

 

I've enjoyed our little back and forth, and I hope I haven't offended you at all with anything I said. If I did, I sincerely apologize and I contest that it was only to further my arguments and not meant to offend you in any way. I added you in game if you wanted a word mate. Cheers.

 

 

 

Honourably, gpacX

look ive been lured into a team (not item scammed) plenty of times. i hate it...but it was own fault. there r plenty off warnings off the wild. first of all, there is only A GIANT TRENCH at the edge of wild to cross... and is it really official that its against the rules?

look ive been lured into a team (not item scammed) plenty of times. i hate it...but it was own fault. there r plenty off warnings off the wild. first of all, there is only A GIANT TRENCH at the edge of wild to cross... and is it really official that its against the rules?

 

 

 

Hi nbeers990,

 

 

 

Yes, if any player lie to another player about the dangers of the Wilderness in order to deprive them of their items, and there was clear intent this was in order to lure them into the Wilderness, then they can be reported under Rule 2 - Item Scamming.

 

 

 

Rule 2 - Item Scamming

What are some examples of item scams?

 

 

 

Some examples of item scams are:

 

* Offering an item and then removing the item within the first or second trade screen.

 

* Offering an item and changing the agreed price within the first or second trade screen.

 

* Misleading players by providing false or inaccurate information, for your own personal gain.

 

* Luring players into the Wilderness under false pretences.

 

 

 

Player's should always make it clear to others when inviting others in the Wilderness that going into the Wilderness to PK, or do any other task, there is always always a real risk that by going there a player can lose all the items they are carrying.

 

 

 

I'd always tell any other player who accompanies me: "Don't take any items you are not prepared or cannot afford to lose. Being PKed can happen anywhere at any time in the Wilderness." I tell others that even if I have no intent to PK anyone or seek to go PKing other teams, since that advice applies at all times in the Wildy.

 

 

 

From a sticky that was on PK-ing Forums:

 

 

 

 

Obviously if you are PKed while you are PKing (even by your own team) you have already accepted the likely risk you may lose your items.

 

 

 

Sadly some players still try and lie and deceive others about the risks of going there. Any form of luring into the Wilderness under 'false pretences' will remain a violation of that rule.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

Fey.

i remember the first time i ever went into the wilderness, i was asked buy 2 other players if i wanted to join them as a team.

 

i was a low lvl i think around lvl 22-23 and had mith armour and a addy scimmi and didn't know any better, so i said yeah ok.

 

well we got fairly deep into the wildy lvl 15 or so and 1 of them said lest play a game...... attack me so i stupidly said yeah ok, and then i got teamed with a skull and lost everything i had.

 

i felt sick after that and have every time i've entered the wildy since.

 

for this reason and the fact that i think cheating, hacking, breaking game rules and anything in general where u take advantage or a another person for personal gain is repulsive.

 

so yeah good on jagex for making it agains't the rules!

I think you should take this down... Luring is now not even existing..

I believe you should remove this topic, seeing as the wildy doesn't even exist as a PvP area anymore :cry:

 

 

 

On another note: Great job on restoring and revamping the forums!

 

 

 

...Silver24-7

seriously take down this thread lol it makes me miss the wild, i would give up anything just to be scammed into wildy once more =c i miss u lurers

Well, I've had my experiences with Bounty Hunter; both the good and the bad. Seems like it hasn't been posted yet, to my surprise, but there has been a new way to lure. This new way of luring is a lot different than it once was, this new way, doesn't break any rules. It involves a clan, the more the better, to camp in the middle of the crater. When people telly to their target, and one of them happens to be in the clan camping, they will be piled, dropped, and looted.

 

 

 

Its not exactly a lure, but a devious tactic and trick in my eyes.

Another BH tactic is to let someone actually kill someone in the clan. The clan then piles the person, who now has his penalty. He dies and loses his ags, ss, ect.

well luring is annoying and i have been on both sides of the spectrum but my view is a kill is a kill [/url

Horrible, their fault for being stupid enough to follow someone in the wildy? They should know the consequences

i remember when i got lured, i was buying ranarr seeds and some guy who said he'd sell me 20 told me to go to edgeville. he was about level 27 so i didnt think there was any risk. but i was still afraid so i kept looking at the mini map. i traded him then 5 secs later a team of magers logged in and i lost 800k and 30 seeds :thumbdown: but i learned from my mistake :thumbsup: