Know what I find cute? When people use that whole "There are 2 billion Christians in the world..." thing. The simple fact is that there isn't. Are there a lot? Yes. Hundreds of millions, surely. But 2 billion? Absolutely not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see, when survey's like that are done, they ask the person if they believe in God, and which God that would be. MOST people, if asked and aren't sure if they do or not, will say yes, they do believe, and they believe in the Christian God. If someone believes in God, but doesn't practice, they'll just say "Yes, I believe there is a God." That doesn't make you a Christian. Christians actually practice their religion, they don't say "Yes, I believe in God." and then go have premarital sex. Most people may belive in God, but simply don't give a damn to follow the "rules". Why? Because the rules suck and they make life suck. You can't do anything fun. As the saying goes - If it feels good, stop, and never do it again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...So that makes people Christians? Believing in God? No. How about the 'leaders' of the faith like to inflate their numbers.

Know what I find cute? When people use that whole "There are 2 billion Christians in the world..." thing. The simple fact is that there isn't. Are there a lot? Yes. Hundreds of millions, surely. But 2 billion? Absolutely not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see, when survey's like that are done, they ask the person if they believe in God, and which God that would be. MOST people, if asked and aren't sure if they do or not, will say yes, they do believe, and they believe in the Christian God. If someone believes in God, but doesn't practice, they'll just say "Yes, I believe there is a God." That doesn't make you a Christian. Christians actually practice their religion, they don't say "Yes, I believe in God." and then go have premarital sex. Most people may belive in God, but simply don't give a damn to follow the "rules". Why? Because the rules suck and they make life suck. You can't do anything fun. As the saying goes - If it feels good, stop, and never do it again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...So that makes people Christians? Believing in God? No. How about the 'leaders' of the faith like to inflate their numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although I agree that a large percent of people claiming to be Christians don't practice their religion very devoutly, I am absolutely certain you don't know what qualifies as being a Christian when someone is polling the entire world. If someone answered a survey and said "Yes, I believe in God" they could be a multitude of religions, including being a Muslim. Do you honestly think a pollster who is important enough to release a statistic like that isn't going to make sure that someone who believes in God isn't perhaps, another religion that believes in God?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're right about a large group of Christians not practicing their faith, but it seems to me that you're just making up facts about when people are polled about their faith.

Know what I find cute? When people use that whole "There are 2 billion Christians in the world..." thing. The simple fact is that there isn't. Are there a lot? Yes. Hundreds of millions, surely. But 2 billion? Absolutely not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see, when survey's like that are done, they ask the person if they believe in God, and which God that would be. MOST people, if asked and aren't sure if they do or not, will say yes, they do believe, and they believe in the Christian God. If someone believes in God, but doesn't practice, they'll just say "Yes, I believe there is a God." That doesn't make you a Christian. Christians actually practice their religion, they don't say "Yes, I believe in God." and then go have premarital sex. Most people may belive in God, but simply don't give a damn to follow the "rules". Why? Because the rules suck and they make life suck. You can't do anything fun. As the saying goes - If it feels good, stop, and never do it again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...So that makes people Christians? Believing in God? No. How about the 'leaders' of the faith like to inflate their numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My dad was telling me about a story he was reading about this guy.. who was doing a massive research on the worlds religions because he wanted to know who was 1st in the "belief" list. It took him years to finish.. and he thought it would be Jesus Christ.. or christianity that would come in first.. but it actually came in 3rd or 4th place. (The guy doing the survey was christian himself)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The world leading religion is Muslim/Islam <-- dunno if those are the same thing or not..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians got mad at him for not putting chrisanity first :lol: but he just wanted the truth and didn't change it :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only bad thing is thats alot of people frying :uhh:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

Know what I find cute? When people use that whole "There are 2 billion Christians in the world..." thing. The simple fact is that there isn't. Are there a lot? Yes. Hundreds of millions, surely. But 2 billion? Absolutely not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see, when survey's like that are done, they ask the person if they believe in God, and which God that would be. MOST people, if asked and aren't sure if they do or not, will say yes, they do believe, and they believe in the Christian God. If someone believes in God, but doesn't practice, they'll just say "Yes, I believe there is a God." That doesn't make you a Christian. Christians actually practice their religion, they don't say "Yes, I believe in God." and then go have premarital sex. Most people may belive in God, but simply don't give a damn to follow the "rules". Why? Because the rules suck and they make life suck. You can't do anything fun. As the saying goes - If it feels good, stop, and never do it again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...So that makes people Christians? Believing in God? No. How about the 'leaders' of the faith like to inflate their numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although I agree that a large percent of people claiming to be Christians don't practice their religion very devoutly, I am absolutely certain you don't know what qualifies as being a Christian when someone is polling the entire world. If someone answered a survey and said "Yes, I believe in God" they could be a multitude of religions, including being a Muslim. Do you honestly think a pollster who is important enough to release a statistic like that isn't going to make sure that someone who believes in God isn't perhaps, another religion that believes in God?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're right about a large group of Christians not practicing their faith, but it seems to me that you're just making up facts about when people are polled about their faith.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Um, I said that they would be asked WHAT God they believe in...Otherwise it's a worthless survey. It'd find that 4 billion people believe in "God", when there are several. Then again, all God's could be considered the same, just with different names. Christian's obviously copied Hindu's, and Muslim's even more obviously copied Christians, so it really doesn't matter, you're all worshipping the same thing. :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'm very unsuprised that Christ came in 3rd or 4th in the to-be-followed list. Like I said, there was a dude who did EXACTLY what Christ is said to have done in the Hindu faith (before Christ), and Muhammed did the same thing as Christ...Yea yea yea, guys, say they're different just because the stories are changed. They're still the same thing. They came here, did a buncha' groovy crap, died, came back and went to heaven where they're now revered as deity's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fun fact: The first religion we know of is Paganism/Druidism, something that Christianity claims to be evil in nature. Why does it claim this? Because a few thousand years back, they wanted Pagans to convert.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why is it a wonder that some people just DON'T BUY anything the Bible says? Is it mere coincidence that it condemns everything that came before it? Is it just a brain-fart on the writers part that wrote "I promise you all these things will come before the passing of this generation" in the Bible, speaking about the end of the world? That was also thousands of years ago. Personally, I'm more interested in how many people are going to still believe this junk in 10,000 years when we've discovered other-worldly life-forms (the Bible says nothing about that, mind you, it would further disprove the Bible) and are spreading ourselves out and about in the galaxy, finding other civilizations who have their own "God" stories. I really, really am interested in that. I wish I could live that long just to see how many are still bowing to a statue of a white guy that didn't exsist...That being Jesus, who was obviously of Arab descent if anything. He had more of a chance of being black than white. :P

Wow Tigra.. pick up a Bible or some form or religion and read it once in awhile..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I stoped reading at the part when you claimed that one day we shall find aliens.. JUST to disprove the bible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reality: Will Never Happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Defender~

Yes, Muslims are those who practice Islam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By the way, please do not stray off-topic. Almost everyone seems to have forgotten the topic completely. I don't mind constructive comments though.

Wow Tigra.. pick up a Bible or some form or religion and read it once in awhile..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I stoped reading at the part when you claimed that one day we shall find aliens.. JUST to disprove the bible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reality: Will Never Happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What does my saying that have to do with reading a Bible? I've read it, and I'm not convinced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

YOUR Reality: "Will never happen".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rational Reality: There are billions of stars PER GALAXY. There are billions of galaxies. Each star has a potential for planets around it. Statistically, it is impossible for there to not be life outside our solar system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People like to boast about how conditions have to be PERFECT for life to be able to form, and that the chances are so low that it just isn't possible. Well, why the hell not? What makes us so special? We weren't here at one time, now we are, and in 2 billion-ish years, our planet will be too hot to live on. Mars will be the same temprature Earth is now. Right now, Mars is freezing cold. My point is: Things change. If the placement wasn't there yesterday, it could be there today. Any planet with an atmosphere has the chance of supporting life if it's placement is right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never once said we'd find life JUST to disprove the Bible. Heck, Our President right now is a Christian and it was his plan to put forward the work to find other planets capable of supporting life. He probably doesn't expect to find any, however. The fact is that the Bible says NOTHING about life anywhere but Earth. If we find some, it further slaps the Bible in the face and tells it to quiet down while the adults speak about things that are important. The Bible isn't important unless it is the literal word of a deity who will reward or punish us. You believe in your heart that it is, but I believe in my heart that it is not. The Bible is full of stories written by men who were, to today's standards, incredibley stupid. Things we know today to be completely false and make us go "What? That's dumb." are written as literal fact. We know for a fact, for example, that "Noah's Arc" couldn't have exsisted. It just couldn't have. There's no way you could build a boat that big and make it float. There's no way you could gather up 2 of each of the entire world's animals. There's no way that even if you COULD do these things, that Noah could have even BUILT this boat. The story was obviously written by someone with no knowledge of the REAL world. He only had knowledge of HIS world. How did animals over here in America get over to where he was building the boat? How did they get back? How about Australia? Other places? See, they didn't know America and these other places even exsisted. They wrote about what they knew at the time, and to them in seemed plausible. Now, if the Bible said that God flooded Noah's entire REGION, it would make the boat smaller (probably still impossible proportions, though) and the animal problem less...Of a problem. Of course, religious people use the logical falacy that God is infalible and can just make these things happen. Forget the fact that there's no evidence and we know it to be impossible - This is GOD, he can do it! So boring. I wish they could really come up with something more compelling. Trust me, if God seemed real, I'd be on that ship right away, because it'd be totally awesome to get the promised rewards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are things like that in the Bible you can see everyday. I've thought to myself long and hard about all of them I've seen, and some I was showed, because let's face it - eternal damnation is no joke. But I've come to the conclusion that I'm not afraid, because the Bible is just a book of stories.

For the love of Allah Tigra, the Bible isn't meant to be taken LITERALLY. Stop slamming it just because Moses didn't really part the Red Sea. They're stories to entertain, stories and parables with a meaning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Bible is considered Truth for what it teaches us to do, not for the truth of the actual stories it tells.

For the love of Allah Tigra, the Bible isn't meant to be taken LITERALLY. Stop slamming it just because Moses didn't really part the Red Sea. They're stories to entertain, stories and parables with a meaning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Bible is considered Truth for what it teaches us to do, not for the truth of the actual stories it tells.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If none of the stories can be taken literally...Then why is God's exsistence?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ask Christians if they think the stories are literal. They'll say yes. If they don't, they're saying the Bible is just a buncha' hoo-haa, and why follow God if his word is a bunch of fake stories?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is meant to be taken literally, except for select metaphores. Stories are not metaphores.

 

For the love of Allah Tigra, the Bible isn't meant to be taken LITERALLY. Stop slamming it just because Moses didn't really part the Red Sea. They're stories to entertain, stories and parables with a meaning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Bible is considered Truth for what it teaches us to do, not for the truth of the actual stories it tells.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If none of the stories can be taken literally...Then why is God's exsistence?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ask Christians if they think the stories are literal. They'll say yes. If they don't, they're saying the Bible is just a buncha' hoo-haa, and why follow God if his word is a bunch of fake stories?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is meant to be taken literally, except for select metaphores. Stories are not metaphores.

 

 

 

I got to a Christian High School, with 1500 students. I know only one person there, including the faculty and pastors, who is a Fundamental Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ironically, he's my AP Biology teacher.

 

 

For the love of Allah Tigra, the Bible isn't meant to be taken LITERALLY. Stop slamming it just because Moses didn't really part the Red Sea. They're stories to entertain, stories and parables with a meaning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Bible is considered Truth for what it teaches us to do, not for the truth of the actual stories it tells.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If none of the stories can be taken literally...Then why is God's exsistence?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ask Christians if they think the stories are literal. They'll say yes. If they don't, they're saying the Bible is just a buncha' hoo-haa, and why follow God if his word is a bunch of fake stories?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is meant to be taken literally, except for select metaphores. Stories are not metaphores.

 

 

 

I got to a Christian High School, with 1500 students. I know only one person there, including the faculty and pastors, who is a Fundamental Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ironically, he's my AP Biology teacher.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...'Kay? That doesn't answer the question. If none of the stories are literal, then why is God literal? Why is God not a metaphore?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd love to hear this one.

 

 

 

 

I got to a Christian High School, with 1500 students. I know only one person there, including the faculty and pastors, who is a Fundamental Christian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ironically, he's my AP Biology teacher.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...'Kay? That doesn't answer the question. If none of the stories are literal, then why is God literal? Why is God not a metaphore?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd love to hear this one.

 

 

 

I don't even believe in the Christian God, so I might not be the right person to answer this. Sad to say it, but I agree with you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, my post was answering what you said about all Christians saying the stories in the Bible really happened, which isn't true.

Well, okay...Uhhh, people who believe in God take the Bible literally. They have to. If everything was just a metaphore, God would have to be aswell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of the Bible was written as serious "rules"...A very small portion is metaphorical.

Well, okay...Uhhh, people who believe in God take the Bible literally. They have to. If everything was just a metaphore, God would have to be aswell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of the Bible was written as serious "rules"...A very small portion is metaphorical.

 

 

 

Please tell me where you got the information in the bolded area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the "rules", like the stories, are meant to be guidance for the human race- they serve the same purpose.

 

Wow Tigra.. pick up a Bible or some form or religion and read it once in awhile..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I stoped reading at the part when you claimed that one day we shall find aliens.. JUST to disprove the bible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reality: Will Never Happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Defender~

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What does my saying that have to do with reading a Bible? I've read it, and I'm not convinced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

YOUR Reality: "Will never happen".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rational Reality: There are billions of stars PER GALAXY. There are billions of galaxies. Each star has a potential for planets around it. Statistically, it is impossible for there to not be life outside our solar system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People like to boast about how conditions have to be PERFECT for life to be able to form, and that the chances are so low that it just isn't possible. Well, why the hell not? What makes us so special? We weren't here at one time, now we are, and in 2 billion-ish years, our planet will be too hot to live on. Mars will be the same temprature Earth is now. Right now, Mars is freezing cold. My point is: Things change. If the placement wasn't there yesterday, it could be there today. Any planet with an atmosphere has the chance of supporting life if it's placement is right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never once said we'd find life JUST to disprove the Bible. Heck, Our President right now is a Christian and it was his plan to put forward the work to find other planets capable of supporting life. He probably doesn't expect to find any, however. The fact is that the Bible says NOTHING about life anywhere but Earth. If we find some, it further slaps the Bible in the face and tells it to quiet down while the adults speak about things that are important. The Bible isn't important unless it is the literal word of a deity who will reward or punish us. You believe in your heart that it is, but I believe in my heart that it is not. The Bible is full of stories written by men who were, to today's standards, incredibley stupid. Things we know today to be completely false and make us go "What? That's dumb." are written as literal fact. We know for a fact, for example, that "Noah's Arc" couldn't have exsisted. It just couldn't have. There's no way you could build a boat that big and make it float. There's no way you could gather up 2 of each of the entire world's animals. There's no way that even if you COULD do these things, that Noah could have even BUILT this boat. The story was obviously written by someone with no knowledge of the REAL world. He only had knowledge of HIS world. How did animals over here in America get over to where he was building the boat? How did they get back? How about Australia? Other places? See, they didn't know America and these other places even exsisted. They wrote about what they knew at the time, and to them in seemed plausible. Now, if the Bible said that God flooded Noah's entire REGION, it would make the boat smaller (probably still impossible proportions, though) and the animal problem less...Of a problem. Of course, religious people use the logical falacy that God is infalible and can just make these things happen. Forget the fact that there's no evidence and we know it to be impossible - This is GOD, he can do it! So boring. I wish they could really come up with something more compelling. Trust me, if God seemed real, I'd be on that ship right away, because it'd be totally awesome to get the promised rewards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are things like that in the Bible you can see everyday. I've thought to myself long and hard about all of them I've seen, and some I was showed, because let's face it - eternal damnation is no joke. But I've come to the conclusion that I'm not afraid, because the Bible is just a book of stories.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For one.. you said "My reality'.. there is no such thing. Reality is Reality.. its not ownership of one's own perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have never seen a alien.. there is no sign of any life forms ever out there.. so why your very confident that they do exist.. but no evidence of such a event is much like believing in the Bible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your using your faith to believe in what has not been proven yet by science. So why you enjoy giving christians a hard time about their faith?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for Science, I disagree with that as well. Every man born, is born knowing abo[bleep]ely nothing. All he has is choices and the ability to learn. Science is your best educated guess.. and hopefully you'll get it right. Well after MANY years.. science has finally gotten things right.. such as what water is made of.. how light works.. how to produce electricity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think God is so out of this world that he is fictional? Well who ever thought that one day you would be riding on a motorcycle or a car.. instead of a horse and buggy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We only know it today because it was taught to us and it was learned from scientists through trial and error.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at Edison.. 2,000 trys to get the lightbulb.. a man of science.. and guess what? Whoa he was christian! He certainly believed in God..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God gave us the universe.. its ours to study and learn.. Do you honestly think God would put something in it that would give us magical powers? We are confined to the very laws and nature of the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There will not be a day where one can break the law of nature or its not law. You may use another law to subside it, such as air flight subsides gravity, but you will never have the power to break a law.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So where am I going with this? Answer a few questions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Is Man.. Perfect?

 

 

 

2. Is anything man has created.. become.. perfect?

 

 

 

3. Who created Science?

 

 

 

4. Why do you put your faith in man?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every man that was born grew up knowing nothing any more than you.. but took the time out to study things.. but you put faith in their educated guesses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its a very intresting concept. People that believe in Evolution.. but not God.. its amazing how they think..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One day.. their sitting in a chair with their girl on their lap.. they have the sun warm them.. the grass sway in the wind.. that gives off a beautiful outdoor smell.. tree's that are pleasent to the sight.. and they say in their heart.. "All this created itself.. "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But God creating it.. is such a absurd idea?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see more God everday than I do Science. People look tooo much at the Traditions of things and bad events rather than what the Bible Really Is. A book that says "Love Everyone" and a God that "Loves You". Just not all christians do that.. why? Go back to number 1 of my survey.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is Science Fact? Why can it not prove the Bible wrong? Why are scientists who DO try to prove it wrong.. end up finding that it was right in its claims?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Science is mans best guess on how something works. Science is good at explaining the physical manifesation of the world.. but it can never prove the bible wrong because it goes higher. Its a Spiritual Discernment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The bible can only prove God exists.. and it does that everyday.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for noah and the ark.. Back in those times.. the atmosphere of the world was different than today. The flood is what changed the atomsphere of the entire world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They even used a atomspheric chamber and put a poison snake it in.. if you was to get bit inside the chamber with that snake.. the amtosphere change actually made the snake non-poisoness. I saw this with my own eyes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why do you think people started living from 1000 years down to approximately 120? The atmospheric change. Most likely your scientists says it was never "possible" because they was using math on our current atmosphere! It was a different one back then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Read the bible and it notes who died after adam, and so on and so forth. Read the number of the years they lived.. it gets lower.. and lower.. and lower.. and lower..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, just some food for thought.. gotta go back to work now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Defender~

Wouldn't it be nice if people actually did take everything in the bible, including the concept of god, as a metaphor and a guide for life and not literally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was taught in a Lutheran school, and they certainly did not think that the bible is just a book of metaphors. They weren't fundamentalists either, mind you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Defender, I'm just assuming here, but why don't you actualy pick up a biology book and give evolution a chance instead of assuming it's not real because of your religion?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have a look.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And as for your whole 'atmosphere was different back then' theory I'm pretty sure the entire atmosphere of the planet dosen't change over a period of under 10,000 years. It changed over a period of billions of years back when there were primative, photosynthetic algae type organisms. the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere has generally increased over time, not diminished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have a look.

 

 

Okay I've noticed that many topics in this forum are biased toward 'there is no God, anyone who believes in God are all fools.' Many Christians feel they are unfairly treated (as well as anyone who practices another religion). You can go to a topic with many atheists on it, say it's about evolution, and you'll see a flame war. The Atheists will call the religious people 'ignorant zealots' and make posts like 'Get the hell off this thread; any religious posts will not be tolerated and will be reported.'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not believe that someone should be criticized for their faith. I mean if Christians are right, they'll go to Heaven, and Atheists will all [bleep]. So what's the use of Atheists getting so pissed off all the time? Instead of 'These ignorant zealots will not keep a civilized conversation, it's quite the contrary.'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...wow. You realize that there are about 2.1 billion christians in the world, with only about 3.8% of the worlds population calling themselves Atheists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And you talk about how horrible it is to be a Christian, and to be trodden down by these awful Atheists....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think of how the atheists feel. They have nothing to belive in AND they have to put up with all the crap that all the other religions have to put up with. Not to mention the threats of hellfire that have appeared numerous times already on this thread. Don't you think Atheists wish that there was a God and Heaven? Who would not like this to exist? Maybe atheists are just more realistic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are about 1.1 billion atheists, or roughly 10%. You can check the website for other "denominations".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just don't post any personal flames, general, reasoned critique is o.k. and expected. Debating theological flaws is not the same as directly attacking a person's faith and beliefs he has had for possibly all of his life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's ignorant to argue in a belittling way no matter what a person believes (though, discussion does require all parties to read sources provided by each other given they are reliable)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I notice on your source, it groups that 1.1 billion number together with Agnostic and non-religious people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....and how were my arguments not reasoned?

If the topic on Evolution was locked because all of the "religious zealots" came in and drove it off course, why shouldn't a religious topic stay open when atheists come in and turn it into a flame war?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love the double standard in the OT. The mods only enforce their own rules when it deals with their own views. If there is any justice left here, this topic will be locked or cleaned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the ban should be reinstated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't have a discussion on evolution without religion being brought into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't have a discussion on religion without atheism being brought into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The forum just isn't mature enough for these types of discussions!

If the topic on Evolution was locked because all of the "religious zealots" came in and drove it off course, why shouldn't a religious topic stay open when atheists come in and turn it into a flame war?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love the double standard in the OT. The mods only enforce their own rules when it deals with their own views. If there is any justice left here, this topic will be locked or cleaned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the ban should be reinstated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't have a discussion on evolution without religion being brought into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't have a discussion on religion without atheism being brought into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The forum just isn't mature enough for these types of discussions!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have never once insulted a persons religious beleifs on this forum. I was merely saying he should do a bit of research before he makes assumptions or chooses not to believe something which has science backing it up (by all means, question scientific theory if you want to, it's how science progresses). I haven't brought my 'atheistic beliefs' into this argument either, just science and last time I checked, science does not equal atheism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry if your comment was not directed at me.

I love the double standard in the OT. The mods only enforce their own rules when it deals with their own views. If there is any justice left here, this topic will be locked or cleaned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want to point, but some people tend to have selective memory and only apply the rules they like.

If the topic on Evolution was locked because all of the "religious zealots" came in and drove it off course, why shouldn't a religious topic stay open when atheists come in and turn it into a flame war?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love the double standard in the OT. The mods only enforce their own rules when it deals with their own views. If there is any justice left here, this topic will be locked or cleaned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the ban should be reinstated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't have a discussion on evolution without religion being brought into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't have a discussion on religion without atheism being brought into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The forum just isn't mature enough for these types of discussions!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

er... no. The original poster directly mentioned Atheism is the first post. Obviously, the intent was a religous/atheist debate, which is perfectly fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for evolution, religious people have a right to their opinion, as with all people. There is NO way the ban should be reinstated. Nobody wants that. People just need to be a bit more civil and tolerant.

If the topic on Evolution was locked because all of the "religious zealots" came in and drove it off course, why shouldn't a religious topic stay open when atheists come in and turn it into a flame war?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love the double standard in the OT. The mods only enforce their own rules when it deals with their own views. If there is any justice left here, this topic will be locked or cleaned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the ban should be reinstated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't have a discussion on evolution without religion being brought into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't have a discussion on religion without atheism being brought into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The forum just isn't mature enough for these types of discussions!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a better solution. So long as people aren't making personal attacks, let conversation flow as it will. Some topics provide natural associations with other topics. Let people make those associations, so long as they do so without attacking other users. Stop censoring people, and let discussion on important issues flow freely.

 

If the topic on Evolution was locked because all of the "religious zealots" came in and drove it off course, why shouldn't a religious topic stay open when atheists come in and turn it into a flame war?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love the double standard in the OT. The mods only enforce their own rules when it deals with their own views. If there is any justice left here, this topic will be locked or cleaned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the ban should be reinstated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't have a discussion on evolution without religion being brought into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can't have a discussion on religion without atheism being brought into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The forum just isn't mature enough for these types of discussions!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a better solution. So long as people aren't making personal attacks, let conversation flow as it will. Some topics provide natural associations with other topics. Let people make those associations, so long as they do so without attacking other users. Stop censoring people, and let discussion on important issues flow freely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. There is no need to reinstate the ban if we don't make personal attacks and try to add some some sort of reasoning into our arguments, which I'm sure we are all capable of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have never once insulted a persons religious beleifs on this forum. I was merely saying he should do a bit of research before he makes assumptions or chooses not to believe something which has science backing it up (by all means, question scientific theory if you want to, it's how science progresses). I haven't brought my 'atheistic beliefs' into this argument either, just science and last time I checked, science does not equal atheism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry if your comment was not directed at me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't worry, it isn't. I didn't mean to say that science=atheism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am just protesting moderator action. Tripsis locked the Evolution thread because "zealots" (in his own words) were taking the topic off track.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that atheists (not synominous with science) are taking this thread off track, nothing is being done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want to point, but some people tend to have selective memory and only apply the rules they like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Elaborate? In the evolution thread, I never stated that evolution existed. I merely stated that I don't believe in "man from monkey" and tried to use some religious examples to back up scientific ones. I was willing to carry on a civil discussion about evolution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

er... no. The original poster directly mentioned Atheism is the first post. Obviously, the intent was a religous/atheist debate, which is perfectly fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, the topic is how we feel religions are being treated. But people like Tigra are bringing in the "Does God Exist" crap which inevitably (and has) turns into a flame war.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a better solution. So long as people aren't making personal attacks, let conversation flow as it will. Some topics provide natural associations with other topics. Let people make those associations, so long as they do so without attacking other users. Stop censoring people, and let discussion on important issues flow freely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It would be nice, but I strongly doubt it is going to happen. I would love to discuss religion and science and everything else without censure. But some people on these forums can not handle that freedom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. There is no need to reinstate the ban if we don't make personal attacks and try to add some some sort of reasoning into our arguments, which I'm sure we are all capable of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tell that to some other people in this thread, on both sides.

 

Well, okay...Uhhh, people who believe in God take the Bible literally. They have to. If everything was just a metaphore, God would have to be aswell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of the Bible was written as serious "rules"...A very small portion is metaphorical.

 

 

 

Please tell me where you got the information in the bolded area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the "rules", like the stories, are meant to be guidance for the human race- they serve the same purpose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's just common sense! If you believe the Bible is nothing but stories that are fabricated, then why is God all of a sudden real? That makes no sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Defender: My reality is ACTUAL reality. Oddly enough, your reality is your own. Like I said, the math and science is against you, and math and science is how reality works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've never seen an alien, no. I'm sure very few people have. However, many, many people have seen UFO's or just believe they're out there somewhere. I won't lie - Most UFO stuff is completely fake BS. But there is some that is real. You can tell it's real when the government gets involved and gives a reason for what people saw that is completely unplausible. You know, the whole "Planet Venus", "Swamp Gas", "Military Flares" (that amazingly hover for hours, hm?) kinda' stuff. Sadly, people who lies about seeing stuff have made it all seem like a giant conspiracy theory. You're probably laughing at me right now because you believe that same thing. However, it's still much more plausible than an all-knowing deity who apparently isn't all-knowing. Afterall, he didn't let us in on a lot of facts about the Universe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides that semi-speculation, scientists are all but positive that there is currently life on Mars. Right now. Is it intelligent? No. It's bacterial, but it's life nonetheless. If we can get some humans there, or better machines, we can drill the water and caves there and see what we come up with. The tempratures on Mars are not too extreme for life. Mars has an atmosphere which can produce lightning, thus it is able to produce light. That's all life is, afterall...Tiny junk and electricity. That's all we are...Junk and electricity. Just because we've become intelligent doesn't mean we're special in any way...It puzzles me why people think we are. Perhaps there are hundreds of planets with races even more intelligent than us. Are they any less special? No, but we have this "Lookitmei'mspeshul!" complex because some of us believe we were created. :-s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not giving Christians a hard time...Not trying to, anyways. My problem is that they talk as if it were cold-hard facts, and it's anything but. There has yet to be a single shred of proof towards God being real. Not a shred! But science we can prove. Evolution may not be proven, but it's absolutely not debunked. We can't be 100% certain it happened, but with what we know about science, I repeat, with what we KNOW about science, evolution did and is still happening. Science hasn't "proven" it happened because they can't. They can't go back in time. But everything we know about DNA and life itself today and in the past says it's a fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rest of what you said is pointless to answer, because you didn't say anything. You're arguing that since science is something we can use, that God made it. I'm saying that there's no God, and no way to prove it. You're completely skipping over that. I don't blame you, as a believer, you literally cannot ask yourself "what if God doesn't exsist?" and continue with that in mind, it's against your beliefs. You just can't do it without going back and solidifying your beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll answer your questions, though they're stupid...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Define perfect. "Perfect" beings is a concept made by the Bible. God is considered perfect. Angels are aswell. Humans are not because we "sin". I don't believe in "sin". I believe some people do stuff they shouldn't do, but I don't believe some guy is writing is down in a book so he can spank us with it when we die and send us off to eternal fire. If God does exsist - I didn't choose him, he chose me. I didn't ask to be alive, yet he expects me to bow to him. That's not free-will, it's slavery. If I don't choose him, I burn eternally, even though I didn't choose to be born. That's another little one of God's falacies. He claims we're all free, but if we don't choose him, we are punished...Even though we didn't ask to participate. Hooray.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Nice grammar, uhhh...Again, define perfect? The only "perfect" thing we can make is a perpetual motion machine, and those are currently impossible due to friction. Why is this relevant?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Noone. Why is this relevant? Why does someone HAVE to create science? Why can it not just be? Afterall, people claim God "just was". Why can science not be "just here"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Why do you put your faith in a book written 6,000 years ago by people with the half of modern IQ's? I put my faith in man (science, rather), because science is just science. It's just there, and it's provable. When something in science is considered a law, it never changes. It can't. It cannot be broken by a single atom in the entire universe. When we make a scientific breakthrough, it helps millions of people. When you pray, nothing happens. God helps noone. He talks to noone. He does nothing. He created us all and expects us to bow down or burn eternally, even when we didn't choose to come into exsistence...Even if we DISLIKE exsistence. Science is science, God is God. Science wins. Science is just cooler, too. Everything around us is science. We can see it. Noone has seen God, and none ever will. Everything God "does" is merely speculation because he nevr makes himself known...Do you know why that is? Guess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe you should go read a science book. Everything didn't create itself. Science created it. Using the laws of science we know and love, everything worked together and over an extremely long period of time, came to be as we know it. We KNOW that mixing up the basic chemicals of Earth and passing electricity through them creates Amino Acids, for example. It also creates some chemicals harmful to life, apparently, but the general idea is that didn't effect life enough to make it impossible to be here today. Is that harder to believe that a deity who can't get his story straight? No, not really.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do not see God more everyday than you see science. You've never seen God. Look infront of you right now. A computer. Science, or God? Obviously God didn't put it there. Science did. You can use the logical falacy of "God makes everything possible!" all you want. It just doesn't matter. It's a dumb argument.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes science is fact. Sometimes we're wrong right off the bat, but obviously it is revised into fact. Why is nothing in the Bible ever revised into scientific fact? Because it can't be. There's no proof. And please, name one scientist who found the Bible to be "proven right". Not some pseudo-scientist Christian, either. There's plenty of those.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the Bible proved God exsisted, noone would question it. Duh? Obviously you're wrong again. Seems you're just shoving your beliefs in here as fact...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What does the atmosphere being different have to do with a boat being impossible to build, and all the animals being impossible to get on it? And why are you using science to prove a Bible story? I thought science was just a guess and the Bible was fact? Seems you're not so sure...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We know the atmosphere was different, but that doesn't mean it could defy physics and logic. It just meant there was more or less of certain chemicals. WOW, Bible proved!... :-s And no, no amount of Oxygen in the atmosphere could allow someone to live to 960 years old. Proven. Scientific. Fact. They've done tests and proven that more oxygen doesn't make you live longer. Good arguement if you're a psuedo-scientist, but for real science, it's been debunked!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the snake bite...I'm going to have to look that up for myself. Never heard of it, and I don't even see the relevance here, but it'd be interesting to see why or how that one worked out if you're not making it up.