January 29, 200719 yr The funny thing, I think, is how everyone who describes a "God-ly" encounter describes birhgt white lights...Everyone who describes an "Alien" encounter describes bright white lights aswell. :P Ahh, but does everyone who describes a 'god-ly' encounter describe being intimately probed in their darkest caverns? Nope, neither do people today though :D Theres different theories as to why we arn't told by the government. One is a 'cold war' type situation and which nation could patent alien technology first, another is that with alien technology we may not need other sources of energy anymore therefore crippling some very wealthy and powerful people, JFK is said to have been shot because he was going to tell the world about UFO's and was the last president they told. Ect ect With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed.
January 29, 200719 yr The funny thing, I think, is how everyone who describes a "God-ly" encounter describes birhgt white lights...Everyone who describes an "Alien" encounter describes bright white lights aswell. :PAny everyone that experiences intense gravity in a training centrifuge to the point of blackout experiences bright white and blue lights, tunnel like vision and hallucinations of people and events. :-k Mercifull <3 Suzi "We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12
January 29, 200719 yr Most "godly" encounters I hear about are described as a feeling of security and a presence that is felt. I rarely hear about people seeing bright lights unless they are talking about a near death situation.
January 29, 200719 yr Without religion the social order would be in chaos. For example, if the good religious leaders hadn't thought up Heaven and Hell (whether they believe in it or not), then everyone would feel like they can do whatever they want in life and not get punished for it in the afterlife. There are a lot of people that are good solely because they believe in Heaven and Hell, so kudos to those guys for thinking those two places up. Many species of great apes have a proper social order without god; For example the Bonobo chimpanzee. Things like Religion being the centre of culture, morality etc. all really on the same fallacy, Correlation doesn't not mean causation. Yes, but apes don't need hope for the afterlife and moral guidance, they just need instinct. Heck, they wouldn't even understand the concept of a god, so there'd be no point in them needing any kind of religion.. Humans and apes are very different; you're walking on thin ice equalizing them. EDIT: I hope you realize that when I say "the social order" I mean "our social order", or the order of the human race. I seriously wonder how much suicide rates would go up if no one had a religious background telling them that there's hope in heaven in the afterlife, that life has meaning. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.
January 29, 200719 yr Rebdragon clearly has no idea on the social structure of the Bonobo apes. Apes who can be trained to communicate with humans (using pictographs) and do basic child like human things. A species whos society revolves around sex rather than religion. Mercifull <3 Suzi "We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12
January 29, 200719 yr Rebdragon clearly has no idea on the social structure of the Bonobo apes. Apes who can be trained to communicate with humans (using pictographs) and do basic child like human things. A species whos society revolves around sex rather than religion. Yes, but you don't see children fretting over religion and the meaning of life. I can see what you're getting at, they do have a social order and are relativily highly intelligient (as well as having the ability to empathize and show other human emotions, yada yada yada), but the Bonobo apes society seems so much different from the gargantuan worldwide human society that I'm not fully convinced by the argument. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.
January 29, 200719 yr Rebdragon clearly has no idea on the social structure of the Bonobo apes. Apes who can be trained to communicate with humans (using pictographs) and do basic child like human things. A species whos society revolves around sex rather than religion. a big peice of the human society is also about sex so not much difference
January 29, 200719 yr I ponder... If humans were not intelligent enough to write, would God still 'exsist'? The popularity of any given religion today depends on the victories of the wars they fought in the past. - Me!
January 29, 200719 yr I ponder... If humans were not intelligent enough to write, would God still 'exsist'? I ponder... If God didn't exist, would humans be intelligent enough to write?
January 29, 200719 yr That may fall into if your God is innate and if it isn't. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed.
January 29, 200719 yr I ponder... If humans were not intelligent enough to write, would God still 'exist'?A got may exist, or many will. There are many ancient civilisations that were either mono or polytheistic. However as society progresses and gets more complex and the civilisation gets more intelligent overall the belief and "proof" in a god diminishes. If someone wasn't intelligent enough (not just unable) to write then they would probably believe even more what you told them about a mystical deity. imo Mercifull <3 Suzi "We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12
January 29, 200719 yr I ponder... If humans were not intelligent enough to write, would God still 'exist'?A got may exist, or many will. There are many ancient civilisations that were either mono or polytheistic. However as society progresses and gets more complex and the civilisation gets more intelligent overall the belief and "proof" in a god diminishes. If someone wasn't intelligent enough (not just unable) to write then they would probably believe even more what you told them about a mystical deity. imo Dead on. The less humans understood the world, the more they used dieties to fill in the holes. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.
January 29, 200719 yr I ponder... If humans were not intelligent enough to write, would God still 'exist'?A got may exist, or many will. There are many ancient civilisations that were either mono or polytheistic. However as society progresses and gets more complex and the civilisation gets more intelligent overall the belief and "proof" in a god diminishes. If someone wasn't intelligent enough (not just unable) to write then they would probably believe even more what you told them about a mystical deity. imo Dead on. The less humans understood the world, the more they used dieties to fill in the holes. In my opinion, religion was devised as an evolutionary mehcanism to enhance the sense of community in the human people, thus giving everyone a sense of hope and strength to hold on to and prosper. The morality that came with religion or the inherent morality (if you believe in such a thing) of human beings could also be an evolutionary mechanism to assure we lessen the damage done to one another so we can each be the strongest beings possible for reproduction, hence passing on our genes, which contain brain peculiarities including moral thought, to the next generation. A bit wierd, I know, but it's not beyond the apparant complexity of the human mind. Sorry if this offends anyone by the way. Don't take these theories as fact though, they are just my ideas and I believe some other groups espouse them too.
January 29, 200719 yr In my opinion, religion was devised as an evolutionary mehcanism to enhance the sense of community in the human people, thus giving everyone a sense of hope and strength to hold on to and prosper. The morality that came with religion or the inherent morality (if you believe in such a thing) of human beings could also be an evolutionary mechanism to assure we lessen the damage done to one another so we can each be the strongest beings possible for reproduction. A bit wierd, I know, but it's not beyond the apparant complexity of the human mind. Sorry if this offends anyone by the way. If only there were a biological explanation for a sense of morality.
January 29, 200719 yr Without religion the social order would be in chaos. How do China, Cuba and North Korea still survive, with a lower crime rate than anywhere in the world? How did the Soviet Union and the French Republic survive without an official religion? (Communist nations even prohibit religion)
January 29, 200719 yr In my opinion, religion was devised as an evolutionary mehcanism to enhance the sense of community in the human people, thus giving everyone a sense of hope and strength to hold on to and prosper. The morality that came with religion or the inherent morality (if you believe in such a thing) of human beings could also be an evolutionary mechanism to assure we lessen the damage done to one another so we can each be the strongest beings possible for reproduction. A bit wierd, I know, but it's not beyond the apparant complexity of the human mind. Sorry if this offends anyone by the way. If only there were a biological explanation for a sense of morality. Less damage to one another means more strength and the strongest get the best chance at reproduction. Through this, the systems of morality may have wittled away at the void beforehand.
January 29, 200719 yr In my opinion, religion was devised as an evolutionary mehcanism to enhance the sense of community in the human people, thus giving everyone a sense of hope and strength to hold on to and prosper. The morality that came with religion or the inherent morality (if you believe in such a thing) of human beings could also be an evolutionary mechanism to assure we lessen the damage done to one another so we can each be the strongest beings possible for reproduction. A bit wierd, I know, but it's not beyond the apparant complexity of the human mind. Sorry if this offends anyone by the way. If only there were a biological explanation for a sense of morality. Less damage to one another means more strength and the strongest get the best chance at reproduction. Through this, the systems of morality may have wittled away at the void beforehand. No, I understand how morality can be seen as an effective evolutionary tool. My point was that there is no biological evidence that shows where a sense of morality comes from.
January 29, 200719 yr Okay I've noticed that many topics in this forum are biased toward 'there is no God, anyone who believes in God are all fools.' Many Christians feel they are unfairly treated (as well as anyone who practices another religion). You can go to a topic with many atheists on it, say it's about evolution, and you'll see a flame war. The Atheists will call the religious people 'ignorant zealots' and make posts like 'Get the hell off this thread; any religious posts will not be tolerated and will be reported.' I do not believe that someone should be criticized for their faith. I mean if Christians are right, they'll go to Heaven, and Atheists will all [bleep]. So what's the use of Atheists getting so pissed off all the time? Instead of 'These ignorant zealots will not keep a civilized conversation, it's quite the contrary.' How do you believe people are treated for their faith? Ridiculous! Persecution! Persecution? to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently. You....think...people..are...persecuting you for being Christian! You want to know persecution? Holocaust... What the Romans did to the Christians...Palestinian people in Israel. You think because someone comes along and calls you a fool for believing in God (which is wrong because you should not blindly call someone's religion foolish), you think you are persecuted. Ha! Situation: They call you a fool for having no proof. You respond: Well it is enough for me. I believe what I believe and you can do what you want. I encourage you to have a second thought, but I understand your position. Thanks, bye. You guys are both at fault...but persecution? You want to know why they are stiff towards Christians? Because most of the time you are rubbing it in their face that they are going to Hell according to your belief. It's ridiculous! Both sides have their faults. Theists: Don't rub it in their face Atheists: Don't retaliate and look at it from their side. Did you read the title? It said Christians/other religions. You are Muslim, no? Apparently you fell under the /other religions part of this. It is meant for us to discuss if we believe any religious believe is treated unfairly. Yes, 'zealots' do attack and flame the hell out of Atheists/Agnostics for how they view things. Especially the 'Jesus Freaks' that shove their religion down the throats of others. It's not wrong for you to stand up for what you believe in, but it does have it's limits. Also Atheists will do the same that they accuse any religious person of doing. Really both sides may attack each other. Because I am a theist does not mean I have to agree with you. Personally, I do not feel discriminated on this forum. So you admit that Christians are at fault along with the Atheists! Yet you did not mention this in your original post. Perhaps it is because you want to slant the argument and feel smug about yourself? Trix.--quit WoW as of 12/07Thank you 4be2jue for the wonderful sig and avatar!
January 29, 200719 yr For the last time...Religion is NOT the original source of "morality". To say so is the same as saying "Hello, I'm an idiot. Please hit me with a stick and laugh at me." Egyptians. Did they follow the Bible? Hell no. They enslaved Jews and worshipped their own God's. Before the Bible was written, do you know what Egyptians did to theives? Punished them. Murderers? Punished them. Any crime-committing-general-baddies? Punished them. Look, humans just KNOW when something is not right. It has nothing to do with the Bible. People in Africa who've never heard of the Bible know that, "Hey, killing that dude was way wrong. You need to be punished." Usually people's punishment fits the crime. If you kill someone, you'll be killed. The Bible has nothing to do with morality being "invented". Morality was never invented. We just KNOW what's right or wrong. We understand that when you kill someone, they're gone. And when they're gone, they're gone forever...And that was a horrible thing to do. Pre-historic man buried their dead because they understood what death was. Animals who murder amongst themselves are sometimes thrown from their social group. Creatures just know what's wrong and what's right. The Bible did nothing but put what we already know into words. The popularity of any given religion today depends on the victories of the wars they fought in the past. - Me!
January 29, 200719 yr In my opinion, religion was devised as an evolutionary mehcanism to enhance the sense of community in the human people, thus giving everyone a sense of hope and strength to hold on to and prosper. The morality that came with religion or the inherent morality (if you believe in such a thing) of human beings could also be an evolutionary mechanism to assure we lessen the damage done to one another so we can each be the strongest beings possible for reproduction. A bit wierd, I know, but it's not beyond the apparant complexity of the human mind. Sorry if this offends anyone by the way. If only there were a biological explanation for a sense of morality. Less damage to one another means more strength and the strongest get the best chance at reproduction. Through this, the systems of morality may have wittled away at the void beforehand. No, I understand how morality can be seen as an effective evolutionary tool. My point was that there is no biological evidence that shows where a sense of morality comes from. I don't know if there is evidence out there, the ideas are possibly still in thier infancy. I basically thought up the idea the other day to shortly find a mention of it on a wikipedia article; I might have to study up and see if I can find something in terms of evidence.
January 29, 200719 yr Without religion the social order would be in chaos. How do China, Cuba and North Korea still survive, with a lower crime rate than anywhere in the world? How did the Soviet Union and the French Republic survive without an official religion? (Communist nations even prohibit religion) There are underground religious organizations in all of those nations. Doesn't mean anything, just stating that religion was there. And as for lower crime rates, I think the fear that the government can kill you and think nothing of it would be a slight deterrent to crime. My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley
January 29, 200719 yr Without religion the social order would be in chaos. How do China, Cuba and North Korea still survive, with a lower crime rate than anywhere in the world? How did the Soviet Union and the French Republic survive without an official religion? (Communist nations even prohibit religion) There are underground religious organizations in all of those nations. Doesn't mean anything, just stating that religion was there. And as for lower crime rates, I think the fear that the government can kill you and think nothing of it would be a slight deterrent to crime. Not to mention that whole brainwashed militaristic thing Kim-jung-is-ill (no idea how to spell :lol: ) has going in North Korea. :ohnoes:
January 29, 200719 yr Without religion the social order would be in chaos. How do China, Cuba and North Korea still survive, with a lower crime rate than anywhere in the world? How did the Soviet Union and the French Republic survive without an official religion? (Communist nations even prohibit religion) I'm not talking about official religions for countries. I'm talking about worldwide religions both in the present and past, and their effect on the human race in the present, past, and future. Religions and ideologies of the Greeks, Romans, and Hebrews (the big three) still affect the world today, like most other religions- I'm not just talking about present "official" religions. You can't honestly say that even though there is no "official religion" there that the people aren't affected in the slightest by what religion has done throughout the history of the human race. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.
January 29, 200719 yr I believe they are treated exactly as they should be. Those who believe can believe, but those who believe Christianity is a bunch of rubbish have just as much of a right to believe as so.
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