hohto

Facts don't have anything to do with opinions. You seem to ignore every fact posted against your arguement and same time spread more and more lies, false assumptions and mindless junk. I personally find it funny how your theories are against all the theories that have been made by the ones who really have studied the subject, not just RS economy but economy as a part of real life societies. You're talking to the biggest merchant in whole RS history. In a legit way he has done more to this game and community than you will ever do. With his economical and statistical posts he has managed to actually help people, unlike you with your rubbish. I've been a pmod for over 2 years. I've seen what Finnish rl traders buy and sell. I've seen what english speaking ones do. If you have ever paid any attention on this case, you will for sure find out that rares play a minimal role here. The ones who sell rares in order to sell it for gp would anyways be breaking the rules and pretty much no1 buys rares for real money or rs gp in order to buy rares. I'm now a 2nd one who has had a silver crown infront of his name to reply to this topic and both have made the same conclusion. Your problem is that you can't come up with anything to back up your words. All economical theories fight against your arguements, same with the field experience of all those who have actually seen to the 2nd level of merchanting. Every time you get stuck, you either disappear or start comparing discontinued items to tulips. Reminds me a bit about the international policy of the US goverment but lets continue on that at the other topic. Edit... lets stick on this one too. I personally don't see how it's nonsense or flaming. You seem to have problems in accepting the facts that don't go with your opinion or you can't seem to change. Being able to learn is a great value, at least here where I live. Well, maybe that's why we were ranked as the top country in education at BBC's news today. If people were as stubborn as you are, we'd still live on a flat space geocentric world. I also find it funny that you actually found the word pair "tight mind" as something to complain about and just after that you said to Duke Freedom what you said. Personally I don't wonder at all if you get a lot of insults if that's your way of behaving.

Could you lighten us up here? What's the problem with items that many people dream about and keep the raw material prices stable? On every damn topic at these forums I've seen you flaming rares, merchants and almost everything that doesn't fit into your tight mind, no matter how good counter arguements you get. Also if Jagex were to stop this money orientation, GE wouldn't work the way it does now: first of all it works pretty much in the same way as street prices (supply and demand actually affect to the GE price) and as the oversupply of certain items has made their prices to dive. I for example would now buy rares instead of skilling materials as the huge oversupply of ending productions has made the prices to go below the critical point by a lot.

You're pretty much the only guide maker who doesn't want to get his topic to stay up :P Anyways I wouldn't call this the best guide ever or not even that great guide. Sure, it's well written and has a lot of great pictures, as for the information: 1. The spot itself is horrible. 1.1. The xp/h rate is something between average and ok. The same xp can be gotten in many other spots too, I don't see a reason why this would be so wonderful. 1.2. The drops aren't too great. Sure you can get some nature runes, but that's it. result: I personally don't see a reason to use this training spot. Avensies are better xp AND cash for ranged, same with many other training spots too. For meleeing I personally see totally no reason to train on those. With less clicking you can get a lot more xp/h and for the drops, that spot is beyond a joke for meleers. 2. The guide should get a lot of meat over its bones if it could be said to be the best guide ever or even that the 1st page. 2.1 The title itself is horrible. This guide isn't the best, it's not describing anything about the contest and the big capitals make it look horrible. 2.2. It doesn't give ANY alternatives for those who want better xp and/or drops. You give exactly zero options for people to chose training spots. 2.3. The equipment part isn't ready yet or you've forgotten many things. Where's karils for example for range training? How about neitiznot helm? 2.4. The math part gives us almost no information at all. You for example haven't stated there anything that could give the slightest hint of xp/h rate, no words how long selling those legs (lol) would take and so on. What's the point of that section if it has no informational value? 2.5. There's a huge number of typos. Sure you would have had enough time to correct those by now, wouldn't you? This guide isn't at the archives of wisdom for a reason. As a guide it fails at many aspects (even tho it's not even close to the worst writings down here) and it has almost zero informational value. As well you could go down and write a guide for infernal mages, the guards of Varrock castle or the crafting guild's cows.

It depends on items you're selling. Some normally hard to sell items are now being sold in bulk there and as there's still almost zero demand for them, they are pretty near impossible to sell. This oversupply can be seen with certain items like gold bars for example: I've had 41k of them there for the minimum price since the update and still 0 sold. Why? Because of oversupply.

Wagner - ride of the valkyries Sibelius - Finlandia

Are you created by Jagex or by bugs in game? If we think that Jagex created them, we can aswell say that Jagex caused the duping episode in 2003, caused the Falador massacre and every other bug outhere. Exactly, Jagex hasnt' created them. They created the game as well as everything in it so if theirs a glitch or bug, they created it. With this logic they also trained Zezima's xp's, your hp and my magic, as long as abused every single bug as possible.

Xp wise they are ok but you can bank the legs :evil: Don't be lazy!!!!!!!!! :shame: I got a bit more than 9m xp more in hp than you in overall :P Don't call me lazy :cry:

Haven't felt wasting 99k on an item that has zero value to me and I got a better alternative for same price.

I personally give less respect to 99 cooking/fletching+cape than I do for 80 mining+normal purple cape. Why? Because both of those skills are nothing more than a joke: if you can do it with virtually no cash, don't require a lot of clicking and it's actually fast unlike some skills, what's the point? Money is one reason why people stay away from leveling many skills to 99. We can just compare the amount of 99 smithers to 99 cooks for example. We currently have over 28k people with 99 cooking and the person who is ranked to be 28000th in smithing has lvl 74. They both are almost as fast to train (now counting with steel bars) but one costs you few mils and one can be done for zero loss or maybe even profit. Same goes for fletching. Cooking and fletching aren't anything more than watching animations, buying materials and getting rid of ending productions. With this lack of work, I don't see a reason why I should give any value to these skills. Heck, I was drunk almost whole time I was going from lvl 90 to 99 cooking and yet I was gaining almost the same xp as I do when I'm sober. Try doing the same with runecrafting for example.... Also if you add that easiness to the fact that they both are dirty fast xp, it gives you a pretty good answer why they aren't respected. Like I've said multiple times, I give no value to those capes and don't see 99 cooking and/or fletching as any special achievment as I don't see 1,5k overall or lvl 56 slayer either. They are just levels that you can take if you want but they don't require anything special from you.

I'd personally list rsc and rs2 pkers into different sections as they are so different now. For staking I would put the ones who have won the most, not by which game they've been in. I'd say that the richests rs2 stakers were richer than rsc stakers when their wealth is compared to an average player.

Lets see... According to that part, I assume that the summoned monsters affecting to combat aren't going to be really THAT big thing many are predicting. I don't see a reason why it would affect to combat levels like many people predict. As they will affect to non-combat things, I assume most of the monsters got something to do with skilling or smoothing the gameplay. Due this I wouldn't be surprised if we got: * Mosters helping you with skills, such as cut wood, fish, maybe mine, hunt and maybe even thief. * Smoothen the game play by giving us the following possibilities: - An alternative to teleporting: wouldn't it be nice to have a huge eagle that could fly you from place A to place B? Of course that would require a relatively high level to get into the most useful places or teleporting itself would become unneened. - I don't see a reason why this couldn't introduce us horses or something like that (same function, different name&looks) which would make moving easier: ride on it and run longer. - Can bank items to you. We already can catch imps and let those to do this, so I don't see a reason why our own pets wouldn't be able to do this. After reading that part, I came to a conclusion that it no magic will be needed in summoning. We can also forget life runes, but maybe get something else instead of that. It would also be the only skill that requires if you to have certain level in other skill in order to be able to train it, so I don't believe magic is needed. With this update, the bird eggs are most likely to get a way to be used or then get removed: this is pretty much the only thing we could actually have a use for them. However they can't be the only way to summon things as they are far too rare for that. I assume there will either be a lot easier way to get them or they produce some higher level things.

Are you created by Jagex or by bugs in game? If we think that Jagex created them, we can aswell say that Jagex caused the duping episode in 2003, caused the Falador massacre and every other bug outhere. Exactly, Jagex hasnt' created them. Can and will are two totally different things. The first thing we were talking about was that can they be created and the point was at the player level. I've personally never heard of a situation where Jagex has created new rares, but they have increased the supply of them by unbanning people with rares. However I wouldn't still say that our discontinued items weren't undiscontinued after all just because they can still be gotten by bugs or getting unbanned: my own guess is that every year more rares are removed from the game than put back to it through that kind of things.

Haha, first vote =P~ [hide]Overall: Zezima, Tks. ATT/STR/DEF: Don't really see a reason to rate anyone for those. If I seriously had to choose one, it would either be Alchemon, Sandytrain or Zonghui. Hit points: Zonghui. RSC is RSC and the 1st is the 1st. Needless to say more. Ranged: Snake Slava/Slavik, 1 person, 1st and 2nd lvl 99 archer. Magic: Bluerose13x. The first is the first, no matter how do you look it. Also took it so much earlier than the 2nd that it must give some extra value. Prayer: Zonghui for what he did in RSC and Lilyuffie88 for being the first to max it. Cooking: TKS Wood Cut: Everdred, first ever to get 99 in ANY skill. Fletching: - Fishing: TKS Fire Making: Empror1, Cowchicken Crafting: Lt Angel Smithing: Bluerose13x, no real other candidates here. Minning: Joe Bill64 Herblore: Halw gnun Agility: Lover Romeo, Thehate Thieving: Duck Man Slayer: Zezima Farming: 0xpx0 Runecraft: Larryr Hunter: Momeydragon Construction: Fredmcgary, Cursed you[/hide]

Why do we train our skills every day of the week for years? What's the point of having many "unneeded" 99s (lvl 99 has no difference to lower levels, for example farming or firemaking) or going over 13m xp in any skill? There are things in online games that can't be rationally explained. We want to do things that aren't always the "best" thing. If we only take a look at the investing part, the answer is relatively easy. It gets us easy money while we do nothing after buying it. Before I joined army, I had some loose rs gp and worked a bit more till I could buy a purple phat for 98m. Currently it's twice more and I've done nothing. If we count the status symbolism too, it's even easier to explain why do we buy rares. They show immediately to everyone around us that we are something. That kind of showing off is normal for mankind, not just for majority of rs players.

Staking doesn't create money, it gathers it from players X and Y to player 1. Now when you aren't anymore potential of becoming rich from staking, people who want/need money collect it other ways, either by starting dmin with valuable items or cash in their inventories by "creating" it through gaining raw materials that can be turned into alchables. Also due the fact that high alching isn't only creating money, it's also a good way for magic xp for those who can't afford losing big amounts of money, nature runes and alchables have felt to a level where they really can't drop or rise a lot. In my eyes this panicin about economical crashings, rare items and mass hysteria are based on realism as much as my last night's dream.

With this logic you could aswell say that skills are worth nothing as Jagex can also boost them from 0xp to 200m in no time. Also it's a fact that players can't create any more discontinues (well, you can turn your cracker into a phat if you feel like losing at least few hundred million gp) but more and more useful items (such as 3rd age) fload to the game every day. This same applies for real world too. Gucci could produce more purses if they wanted, Rolls Royce could do the same with cars and Hugo Boss with suits. Yet, those items are kept uncommon by pricing. They aren't expensive because they'd be more useful than purses made by Chinese child workers and sold for 2$/purse, Rolls Royces were that much better than Fords or Hugo Boss suits were made out of diamonds and gold. They are bought for representing your economical and social status, not because they gave the best usefulness:price ratio. Same goes for rs rares. I didn't get my phats or farming capes because they were great, I took them (and am wearing even atm) for the fact that they are status symbols showing something new for the others and my rares are gaining value in a long run. Might sound selfish, but heck, RS wasn't sosialistic system when I last time checked. Btw have you ever thought of this. Jagex has created 0 phats/crackers after christmas 2001 and same goes with ALL other discontinueds. Players have managed to create them once and paid a huge price for it. Same time these precious tulpins were produced almost daily, there's your difference for it. Please tell me what's this money corruption you're talking about and what does it have to do with rares. I'm relatively sure from what I've seen that most of the bought gp isn't used for rares. Or getting a phat can be a journey that lasts for months and keeps you playing. A party hat isn't just some useless item that costs a lot, it's also a better sign of your status than 1b cash at your bank and it can be an investment for future like my purple phat for example was. Also what I've seen during my pmod career, it's cheap items what are the main targets of scammers. Do you seriously think that people create lvl 3 accounts and scam lvl 34s in Varrock for rune armour if a party hat was their goal? Do you really think that people buy 1-10 mils from eBay so they can sometime in future buy a phat? What I've seen, people buy gp in order to get some smaller cost (below 100m) things faster, such as pkin gear, skilling materials or low cost items. From your postings I get a picture of you blaming rares for everything that's wrong in RS. If the situation was this easy, rares would already have been removed ages ago.

Tulips can be created, rares can't. Here's the reason why 3rd age for exampel falls in price while discontinued rise even tho 3rd age are more useful as items. Rares have never been the 1st thing on their priority list. They stopped the tradeable holiday drop, but that's it. For exampel during the duping episode, they could have gotten a real reason to remove rares or at least do a rollback which would have wiped many phats. There are thousands of players who have gotten high skills due getting gifts from friends, drop-trading from mains, scamming, hacking, bought materials/gp for materials for real money or autoing. Many skills don't have any use after certain level. At least my phats (which took me ages to get) can gain value unlike my farming cape which cost me more than what I paid for my purple for example which I bought in 2006.

Removal of wilderness, trading, dropping, ability to hurt monsters and to die. No violence to kids, no way to lose money, really create it or interact.

I'm personally keeping all my rares at the moment and would actually buy more if I had loose cash. Atm people are panicing and the increased supply (too many people afraid to lose even more money) and decreased demand (not many want to invest on falling things) so much that my advice would be NOT to sell rares. We don't know yet how the grand exchange will be, many rich stakers might quit due this update (=less rares for supply) and by the time, rares become even rares. Even if they become useless after grand exchange, I'd at least have As a theory sleeping bags were good and for example still similar ideas are posted on different rs related forums. It actually worked for a while, but was too basic to work against autoers. Also unlike this dueling update, it didn't kill anything, it just changed training a bit. This update pretty much killed dueling and affected to markets a lot.

Fake or not, the idea is the same: no matter was the 3k risen to 5k or even 15k, this update was a total failure. Most people don't stake because it's fun, most people stake because it gives them a chance to win a lot of money in no time. I personally assume the 3k gab will either be removed or yesterday was the first day of falling for RS2. This update affects to so many people either directly bylosing their way to make money and reason to play or indirectly but affecting to the markets. This update was just something that in my eyes fails in its main purpose as we still got trading, dropping and wildy left, but same time it hurts many people. After every update that has caused any kind of rioting, for example the change of PC, I've said that there's always winners and losers in updates. However after this update I only can find losers and not a single type of a character that would actually benefit from this: * Stakers = What can you say? They got given a long waited group dueling but same time the reason for them to train and play was just destroyed. * Skillers = Temporary more people might invest in raw materials due they don't have a need to have hundreds of millions of gp for staking anymore. Anyways less and less people got the gp and actual will now to train up their stats for staking and the demand for certain training goods, for example red chinchompas, might crash. * Merchants = The price floadings yesterday and today might be a good thing for some long time investers, but in general the unpredictable future (too many changing variables) and the removed ability to get dirty rich in a legit way are both affecting the supply and demand a lot. Also the sign this gave for us wasn't a good from a merchant's view. * Pker = With this update I personally predict that the number of NH pkers rises same time the number of proper lower lvl pkers decrease. This is a negative thing for pkin as everyone who has seen NH pkin knows. I'm curious to see what will grand exchange give to us. I personally waited it and this duel arena update like a kid waits christmas, but after this update I'm getting rather worried. Seems to me Jagex have gone too lunatic on certain things (RWIT) and forgetting the stuff that keeps people playing: skills, playerkilling (wildy+staking), fun minigames and quests.

At the moment DI is something like top 5 material, but it's not the best or even the 2nd best clan out there. I'd personally say that RSD dominated the early rs2 wildy before it was temporary closed. Back in those days there was 2 clans (RSD+DI) and others were in statistics' roles. However RSD managed to win the legendary RSD vs DI war quite badly and had pretty equal fights with DI before that. However after RSD was closed after the war, DI was pretty much alone in the wildy for a while.

Basically yes, in theory not. Also like said earlier, that virus isn't made to go with RS, at least not yet.

Don't the last part also do the same for us: provide us services in order to save our time? If you meant the little kids who for example buy whips at 50k lower than the normal price is and then sell at the same spot for normal price, I personally would call those time wasters instead of merchants. You can do the same with every other thing too. For skilling you obviously need some skills to get into moneymaking, but same way in merchanting you need capital to do it. Same way as you can create more money with skills when your level goes higher, the same way you can merchant better and get more out of it when you've gained some capital first.

This same applies to any other subgatery: pkers, skillers, multitaskers, leg players, autoers, americans, finns, etc. There's always some idiots among the people. However merchanters are seen more often than pkers/skillers as they are everywhere and actually interact with people. Doesn't the lack of moral apply for NH pkers and unfair skillers (spot stealing, etc) people? If we take a closer look at it, it's the buyers who rise it, not the merchants themselves. The price is what 2 sides agree to and if we're not happy with the prices, we either must go to other people who sell it cheaper or pay more. Also don't forget how much pkers and skillers actually need merchants: pkers need potions, food, runes, arrows and armours. Skillers need raw materials and get rid of their ending productions. Without the merchant class, buying and selling items in bulk would be a lot harder. If you were refering to price manipulators here, I would see it the same way as judging skillers because of autoers. They are just dishonest people who should not affect to legit players, no matter in which class they were. How isn't doing the trades for people not doing their dues? With this logic (if we push it to limits) only people right herblore should use potions and so on. With those thoughts you forget that some people actually give value to time: we want to get things fast and actually pay extra for bulk amount of raw materials if it helps us to save time. If that means trading with a merchant, it's fine to me and they should also get paid for the time they've wasted for gathering bulk amounts of materials. I also don't see how it cheapens the game. In my eyes merchanting gives a totally new way to play it and thus richens it. It actually helps every other class and is linked to them. And I know people who have played for years and not gone into skilling and/or pking. Different people give different values to things and do what they feel like is what they like. That's up to you and doesn't make you any better person. In my eyes multi-billion bank and 99 skills share one common thing: they usually can't be rationally explained. It's either just things in your bank that lie there until you quit/sell it/use it or a thing at the stat list. If 99 farming makes you feel good, go for it. If it's a blue party had, get it. No matter what the majority say.