Makoto_the_Phoenix

For the sake of consistency, i assume he includes runite in it. I won't rule that possibility out as it only says it in section 2, although we can only assume without clarification on this matter. However, I don't really like the idea of multiple ores per rock, anyway. For clarification, when I wrote this rant, I was significantly more concerned with the lower level ores more than I was with Runite. I don't mind that Rune ore stays the same - even if it does break with the other two gathering skills' consistencies. This sounds like a fair idea. Not sure what that would do for Adamant, since if we kept the current respawn times for it, it would only last maybe five or six ores per rock for another 10-15 minutes. I still like this idea.

FF 3.5 hasn't been pushed out to the Ubuntu repos yet, but I've tested it before on my machine. More or less, I feel that the performance has actually degraded rather than improved, and I don't know where they're touting speed. I probably won't be upgrading anytime soon; none of the new features are 'OMG MUST HAEV' for me right now. It might also be way faster under the hood; I just haven't had the patience to tinker with about:config yet. Without tweaking it, though, it feels sluggish.

If they did put him back, you can bet your bottom dollar that the prices for every plate-armor would instantly be synchronized. I'd like to see him back too, but preferably in some sort of quest arc.

I'm going to answer this with another quote. That quote doesn't answer the principal question of "why can't we". In fact, it doesn't even make sense there. What were you going for? That i do agree with, but making mining easier, it should probably be balanced by making it significantly slower to mine. Somewhat like the pray-X update, in which it actually got slower, but it was easier. While making Mining easier was NEVER the scope of my rant, you seem to have a broken record with this one. How in God's name does more resources from the same, slow rocks make Mining easier? If you had sufficiently read up before you posted, you'd see on the first page that I said this. I don't intend for the experience to increase, no; I intend for the rewards to increase. Give me ten Mithril ores from the same rock at the experience of six of them; I'm pacified. Besides, I was prepared to trade the faster ores for less experience in the first place, since it would balance itself out in the end anyway. Which = less competition, in other words, easier. Not true - both Fishing and Woodcutting's respawn times have no bearing on competition whatsoever. On the other hand, Mining's respawn times sure as hell do - if you don't get to this mid to high level rock on time, then it's probably too late. I'm also concerned that you didn't answer Lil_Cowmoo's question, which was posed rather nicely:

It's been a while, but I've decided to come back to show everyone here the work that I've managed to do, with practice and reading up on some tutorials. Getting my hands dirty with the program helped a lot, too - a lot of the things I'm used to are easier to find now. Anyway, the newest work is my current sig now. Give me some C/C on that, since that's the second ever GIMP sig I've done.

Is P2P being pushed aside by F2P? Simply put, no. Members will always take the priority updates. Of course, giving them Members-only monsters (like the hellhound) isn't so bad, and nor is opening up the whole Northern Wilderness, and it isn't like Members are losing anything if F2P gets an update - we could still use it, too. Just remember - not everyone that posts on the RSOF demanding these changes are 100% F2P - they might be ex-Members, too.

Thank you for backing me up on this point. Especially the emphasized part. You're one of the folks here that has some semblance of understanding my rant. Not going to explain this to you again, if you want to ignore everything that I've ranted about, that's fine; just don't come back and post utter nonsense. I've been polite enough with this. Reread the rant, and do your best to understand where I'm coming from. If you don't understand the point, I've made it as clear as I could on page 3. If you still don't get it, just don't reply. Consider that neither Fishing nor Woodcutting have that general problem with multiple resources per spot; perhaps that's how it could be fixed.

That statement might hold true in any other country but China, but uh...China's sanctions and Internet filters are insane enough to pull this off. Consider that the government actually has control of all of the ISPs, they could really block this. I've got a mixed feeling here...sure, gold sellers to legitimate gamers were a nuisance, but those people needed to put food on their tables. I don't know what to think, it's a shame for them to lose their jobs, really; I'd imagine at this point that most of WoW's RWT problems would evaporate, though.

Yes, Jagex can issue IP bans. They don't have a lasting effect, though - you can typically get a new IP in a matter of moments. Those that social engineer (yes, not "hack", as is the common, but abused turn-of-phrase is) wouldn't be affected much by an IP ban, anyway - there are hundreds of machines with Internet access in their city, and their router can be reset to circumvent the ban.

:wall: Thank you for proving that you missed the entire point of my rant. I told myself I wouldn't spell this out to you, but since I'm in a decent mood, we'll do this one last time. Mining, like Woodcutting and Fishing, is nothing more than a harvesting skill. The point, the raison d'etre for a harvesting skill is to provide a resource to another skill to process. In these instances, we have logs going to Firemaking and/or Fletching, and fish going to Cooking. Ore from Mining is supposed to go to Smithing, but my complaint is that Mithril and Adamant ore are so scarce and hard to get, that there's no point to it. I'm also contending that the skill is the only harvesting skill that is a mandatory grind to level. To solve this, I argue that more ore should come from rocks, that intermediate ores be moved to more convenient locations, and once those two "updates" happen, the third problem of "being a grind" can disappear, since getting the ores would actually be beneficial to both the economy and Smithing once again. I'm not kidding this time. Go back, read the rant, then make a decent counter-argument. If you can't make the effort to do that, don't waste my time.

In English: Puedo is too similar to "Pedo" or "Paedo". Those phrases are blocked, so it would be blocked too. In Spanish: It doesn't matter what it means in Spanish. The filter is designed around English words. If it *looks* bad in English, then it gets starred. Example: The opening verse to one of my favorite Anime songs (Through the Night) is filtered. "Semenaide" (pronounced seh-meh-NAI-day), which means "Don't destroy it", comes out as... a totally different word, which looks and sounds nothing like its intended definition, hence it gets starred out to all Hell. Deal with it, bud.

You probably don't want to hear this, but it does look like you're remembering the days of RuneScape with rose-tinted glasses. It's interesting that players that have been around since "before the beginning" keep on thinking of these as halcyon days of our youth, when they were anything but. I'll start picking apart your arguments now... The game has significantly more teens than it does children. I theorized privately that this game could be seen as full of nothing but teenagers who think that it's everyone but themselves that are acting like children, and so far, it hasn't been refuted. There are isolated incidents of that happening, many of which are solved by using the ignore button. What, are you going to tell me that didn't exist back then, either? Oh but it did - and it works just as nicely as it did back then. If anything, it's the players' fault for making up such silly rules. "No honor" PKing? What the heck - it's kill or be killed, full stop. You grow up, you see things differently. What's left to say? Except for "try playing the game with those 2D sprites and 3D NPOs, and see how long you last". With scammers and hackers rampant in RS circa 2003-2006, don't you dare tell me that the game has never been greedy or cutthroat. It has always been; your head was just in the clouds. Don't take my comments so harshly, they're exactly my sentiments on this topic. I'm not one of those players to come in here, say that I played in ot-blah before update X; I'm just one of them that says it's been the same song ever since we started playing, and the verse hasn't changed yet.

I'd be rejoicing for this a lot more if the Price Rises/Price Drops columns showed stuff that we'd actually trade, and not stuff that has no real market.

Were you not paying attention to what I said? To begin with, money is NOT the scope of this rant. I really, really don't care if Mining becomes profitable/ceases to become profitable/becomes the new millionaire skill/whatever, all I want is for Mining to fulfill its purpose as the feeder skill to Smithing. It does not do that right now, no matter how you slice it. That's all I'm arguing - Mining does not fulfill its purpose as a feeder skill to Mining due to the inconvenience of mining Mithril or Adamant. I'm done trying to spell this out to you; reread the rant before you reply to this. Please. When you define "rewards", sure, money is a factor, but the point of all gathering skills is to supply goods to a processing skill. Mining is the gathering skill for both Smithing and Crafting. Woodcutting has Firemaking and Fletching, and Fishing has Cooking. I'm still contending that Mining does not go all the way to supply resources in the literal middle of the skill (Mith/Addy) for Smithing. Let me put it to you like this. You can harpoon Shark, net Monkfish, and go to the Trawler for Mantas/Turtles. Each fish caters to a specific, mid to high level of Cooking skill required. - Fishing has satisfied its role as a feeder skill. You can cut trees up to Magic, and either burn them or fletch them. This occurs at every iteration of Firemaking and Fletching. - Woodcutting has satisfied its role as a feeder skill. You can not mine Mithril or Adamant in quantities similar enough to any feeder skill, nor can you acquire them in nearly as much time as Woodcutting - it would take you twice or three times as long to gather 28 Adamant ore in contrast to 28 Magic logs. - Mining has NOT satisfied its role as a feeder skill. Honestly. Last time I'm spelling this out for you. Read the rant for comprehension this time. I also fail to see how high level miners would get penalized for these suggestions. If anything, they'd be the ones to prosper the most from these. Spell this one out, since you don't seem to know what you're talking about here. Oh, just did the math - If you started mining nothing but Iron from level 15, you would need to mine roughly 372,344 ores. There's no penalty in starting at that level; it isn't like the resource is gathered any slower, either.

I've seen Forsakenmage's chat. I stay away with it for good reason, and idle in MMG's most of the time. The guys Foresakenmage's chat are...for lack of a better term, immature. Don't feel bad about ranting, either. It's fine to get frustrations off your chest.

1) The only "reward" you get is to mine Runite, which pretty much leaves every other ore out of the loop. 2) The rewards of Runecrafting are practically apparent when you start - every rune you make actually has a use. 3) Woodcutting has rewards sufficient to fulfill its role as a feeder skill (Firemaking and Fletching), so it's just fine. 4) Fishing has rewards sufficient to fulfill its role as a feeder skill (Cooking), so it's just fine. 5) The point of a gathering skill is to gather. We're not gathering Mithril or Adamant, and to do so would mean you go out of your way. Do you not see that?

That's actually a good question. I use smaller font than the norm in my sigs, and some others might see this as an opportunity to blow their text to God knows how big; the question/remark then becomes: What's the stance on that, or will the rules be updated to reflect that?

Testing...

There's a difference between 'challenging' and 'pointless'. Runecrafting is challenging; quite literally the slowest skill in the game to train, with optimal experience gains per day coming between 60K and 435K [RScript Tracker backs me up on this], and the runes you make are actually useful. Mining is pointless, since chances are, you're not using it to its fullest potential, and mining Mithril/Adamant for Smithing or to sell on the market is typically out of the question. Heck, if players sold off all of the Iron they powermined, then there wouldn't be all this talk about 'inflation'... The difference between challenging and pointless is your own opinion which depends on how you play the game. You totally missed my point. Mining is pointless since you do not use any of the intermediate ores (Mithril or Adamant), you do not mine them in bulk, and the only level worth getting is 85, so you can compete with other Rune miners and Revenants. RuneCrafting is challenging because it's difficult to level, the Runes as a byproduct of training have an actual use, and players aren't shy about making Bloods or Deaths. Do you see where I'm going with this now? It's not about how I play. It's about the point of the skill to begin with, which was to be a feeder skill to Smithing. You're not mining Mithril or Adamant when you mine, are you? That's my argument. I don't really see a problem with grinding either, but I contend that it's the only feasible way to train Mining. Most every other resource-gathering skill has elements of grinding to it, but leveling either Fishing or Woodcutting isn't always a grind - you can use Monkfish and Maples/Yews. All I want is an alternative to that. If the effects of the armor were global, I would be complaining a lot less. But they only apply to Varrock's mines, which don't have much to offer for someone of my caliber.

Clue scrolls suck, the chances of getting third age is stupid beyond all else. Plus, a great deal of level 3 clue scrolls have annoying quest requirements. Oh and, the demand may rise, but in the end, we have a million people trying to sell there rune armor, which just won't sell, and rune armor will drop. I can imagine people in f2p PVP running around in full rune and still not risking 75k. Again, I'm not taking this thread to another topic, but Clue scrolls don't require high skill requirements (and no, Quests don't require high skill requirements either, at least the ones you need to complete the level 3 scrolls), and they have more potential for higher gains of cash than 85 Mining does. That's what you asked, but again, we're not talking about that. I'm starting to believe that you're clutching at straws here, and it seems like you have been since you started this up. How does demand for Rune ore rising equate to a run on Rune armor? Just because Rune ore gives you multiple ores per rock doesn't mean that Rune armor will fall, really - in fact, most players get their armor from NPCs or shops anyway. Next, the number of people that can make full Rune is still pretty small, so a major drop in that wouldn't happen until there were lots more. For the last time, the scope of this rant is simply to give Mining back its dignity as a feeder skill to Smithing; right now it has none. I'm not concerned with the market or how stable it would be if Adamant/Mithril came back, all I want for Mining is to have a purpose again, okay? Can we stick to that?

That's not the scope of this rant. I don't much care if Mining becomes profitable or not, all I want is for Mining to have its dignity again. True. Who wants a money-making skill that takes INCREDIBLY long periods of time of grinding away doing pointless training JUST to earn some money. They are much easier ways to earn money (for members), and for f2p, getting 85 mining just takes too long. Give me some of these "much easier ways" which have more money making potential than mining, while at the same time don't require high skill requirements. Also, look at what it would do. If you could get multiple rune ore per rock, rune prices would drop to all hell, as would any ore prices, etc etc. I realize that this isn't directed at me, per se, but something that doesn't require high skill requirements, which has more money-making potential than Mining would be clue scrolls. Doesn't take much effort to get into Taverley dungeon with 50-60 range and camp until you get a level 3 scroll. Again, I realize that prices would fall on ores, but it's still a good thing - if the prices for ores drop, then the demand will rise, meaning that the prices will rise to meet the demand. That's just the idea - to give Smithing its feeder skill back. Of course, there's still a fair bit of work to be done on it. There's a difference between 'challenging' and 'pointless'. Runecrafting is challenging; quite literally the slowest skill in the game to train, with optimal experience gains per day coming between 60K and 435K [RScript Tracker backs me up on this], and the runes you make are actually useful. Mining is pointless, since chances are, you're not using it to its fullest potential, and mining Mithril/Adamant for Smithing or to sell on the market is typically out of the question. Heck, if players sold off all of the Iron they powermined, then there wouldn't be all this talk about 'inflation'...

Wait the five minutes out. But you've done that by now. Unless, that is, the error is still there...

It's a brilliant PR move, anyway - it reduces the likelihood of ranters complaining how it didn't meet their expectations. Too bad it won't totally eliminate that...

It just needs to be more reasonable, not easy. That's assuming you subscribe to "easy" and "hard" skills when everyone knows it's just mindless clicking. To add on to this, the scope of the rant wasn't to make Mining easy, it was to make Mining purposeful again. Besides, what you call 'easy', I call 'tedious'. If you really thought about it, every skill in RS is 'easy' - it just depends on how much time you have to plunk into the skill. You're probably right, looking at it from a realistic sense. But, then again, if we look at anything else from a realistic sense, we're going to make most, if not all of our skills exponentially harder. I think there's some wiggle room with that. There's also the anomaly of multiple ore deposits in the same rock, which is a principle that iron miners have used since the early ages. If they know that this rock contains some ore, then they'll just keep mining it until they either have too many (useless) rocks, or enough of the ore for them to refine. Again, what I said was that "the possibility of power-leveling exists". This is actually true for most every skill, except Slayer. What I contend is that there is no other alternative to leveling Mining outside of power-leveling, which defeats the purpose of gathering ore in the first place. I also see that you're looking at things in a literal, matter-of-fact sense. That's fine, but we're talking RS here - not everything has to be realistic or have realistic-like behaviors, namely this skill. I just don't see the point of dancing with Carpal Tunnel to get a 99 in a skill when you haven't mined a single Adamant ore a day in your life.

At least it's good to know that they have been working on it, and that it was a totally revolutionary piece of engine work to get it out there. I want to try it, but I can wait a little longer. Heck, I've waited for six months, what's another few weeks? Also, smart PR strategy by downplaying this update. This should get some of the ranters out of the way when it actually launches, and it doesn't let the player really "expect" anything in terms of how good it is, what the rewards are, that sort of thing. Needless to say, can't wait! Let's see Jagex show Murphy's Law a thing or two.