Obtaurian

If you mostly do TDs and slayer, you definitely want a rapier. Especially if you'll also be doing a lot of DKs and frost dragons.

I don't see how the quest cape has any relevance to how difficult quests should be. It's a cape of achievement, that's all. It's only logical that quests will get harder and harder and require higher skills than previous quests. I would consider every single quest out right now to be medium-level content or lower, so it wouldn't make sense for Jagex to avoid high-level quests when there's such a large player-base that would appreciate them. I'm a 137 and I would love a quest that could give me a run for my money. What? You're not 137 and don't feel that quests should be designed for 137's? Maybe you don't deserve that cape after all.

I think the only way for Jagex to create a quest that directly relates to the events in Daemonheim would be to have multiple levels of completion for the quest (like RFD). How far you can get in the quest would depend on how far into Daemonheim you've explored, but there'd be quest points and rewards for every "step" of the quest, if you will. Then, of course, there's the matter of Bilrach attending the ritual in the north, Zamorak being freed, etc. I think there'll be quests that INVOLVE the events of Daemonheim, but none specifically about Daemonheim.

120 capes would be even worse to give extra abilities to, because then people would feel obligated to "go for" them, and that's an unhealthy paradigm for Jagex to support. That's what I think about 99 capes, but I think giving abilities to 120 capes would be okay due to the sheer time and effort it takes to get them. I don't think many people will look at 104M exp and think, "yeah, that's worth this or that ability." As long as the abilities in question aren't so good that they'd give a significant advantage to anyone who had them, I don't think the general RS population would bother unless it's something that they would've done anyway. I'm thinking the difference between the hard and elite Ardougne diaries. The advantage of completing the elite diary is so small that not many people feel that it's absolutely necessary to do it. It's convenient to do so, yes, but not necessary. See what I mean?

Bad grammar and semantics can lead to tragic misunderstandings. i understand that but i dont see how so on runescape I'll use an earlier example: "Buy whip!" This appears to be some sort of command, of which the only way to respond is to use an OMALI 3000 action figure which, when activated, shouts an appropriate response. In this case, said response is "you can't tell me what to do!" See? That guy might've avoided being yelled at if he had typed "buying a whip," which is much more acceptable and easier to understand.

No, they're fine the way they are. Additional bonuses would be unnecessary and unbalancing, and overall, would be bad for the game. They already give a miniscule ability of +1 to their stat. Perhaps slightly less minuscule abilities. ;) Again, though, adding anything to skill capes would be unnecessary. However, I do agree with xpx (I think he said this) that 120 capes should have good stats and some sort of ability. I'm surprised the 120 DG cape doesn't.

Do tell me, very much interested. Yeah, I'm really curious. I'd love to see that vid for sure. And LOL at what you said as it died.

Fantastic, Zaaps. I read the whole thing. :cool: I've been pondering the idea of an epic dungeon since Dungeoneering came out, so it's cool to read something similar (and something that's actually been written and fleshed out, unlike mine). Here are some thoughts: - The Prima remind me of elves, the Prime Divine remind me of the Elder Gods, and the Primordial Magi remind me of the Mahjarrat. Perhaps it would be more in-line with the lore of Runescape to change those? I don't quite remember if the elves and Mahjarrat fit into the timeline of Runescape the way you wrote it, but I think it would give the suggestion a little more familiarity, if you know what I mean. - Some of the dungeons and boss fights remind me a LOT of Zelda, which is a good thing. I think you need to change the name of the Temple of Time, though. ;) - How long do you think it would take to do this every month? I'm a little weary of having a random reward at the end, but I guess that depends on the rarity of the items. - Rewards seem very OP, but obviously the rewards are not the crux of your suggestion, so that's not really a big deal. All in all, I like it very much.

While I don't believe that giving skill capes any sort of bonuses or abilities is necessary, I would not be opposed to giving them very minuscule and convenient abilities (but not actual stat bonuses). For example, an agility cape could lower your weight slightly, a fishing cape could increase the rate you catch fish by 2-3%, a ranged cape could act a an accumulator, etc. Things like that.

How do you figure that since cls has better attk bonus? Better gear should benefit cls not rapier as was demonstrated with my trials with Sir Izenhime. Two reasons: 1. The CLS is a very accurate weapon, but so is the rapier. Those accuracy boosts push the rapier even closer to the accuracy of the CLS, while the CLS can not get much more accurate than it is (remember that nothing can be more than 100% accurate). Thus, accuracy boosts favor the rapier. 2. In regards to strength bonus, the rapier is the faster weapon, therefore it can utilize the higher strength more often than the CLS. The CLS can only hit slightly higher than the rapier as it is, so the rapier is going to eventually win in DPS against most monsters due to its speed. Sounds good in theory but I have not seen that in practice in game. It's both a logical and intuitive deduction, and it DOES work in practical settings. No offense, but you seem to assign heavy significance to very small-scale tests that don't really prove anything other than Runescape's RNG is working just fine.

I already said that it has the mechanics of a skill (doing the same thing over and over again; grinding). Do you know why the story doesn't progress like it does in a quest? Because Jagex hasn't finished the story yet. Once the skill is complete, a run from floor 1-60 will play out very similarly to an epic quest. Given that you think Daemonheim is stale, I'd say that your aversion to relating Dungeoneering to a quest is mostly just your dislike of Dungeoneering. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How do you figure that since cls has better attk bonus? Better gear should benefit cls not rapier as was demonstrated with my trials with Sir Izenhime. Two reasons: 1. The CLS is a very accurate weapon, but so is the rapier. Those accuracy boosts push the rapier even closer to the accuracy of the CLS, while the CLS can not get much more accurate than it is (remember that nothing can be more than 100% accurate). Thus, accuracy boosts favor the rapier. 2. In regards to strength bonus, the rapier is the faster weapon, therefore it can utilize the higher strength more often than the CLS. The CLS can only hit slightly higher than the rapier as it is, so the rapier is going to eventually win in DPS against most monsters due to its speed.

Imagine a quest where we stumble upon a huge, ancient castle being explored by the Fremennik. The Fremennik tell us that they've sent warriors underneath the castle to explore and find the source of whatever evil they think resonates from there, but only two of those warriors have lived and returned (Thok and Marmaros). We, the adventurers, agree to explore the depths of Daemonheim to find the source of this evil (because as Zenevivia says in Love Story, we'll pretty much do anything for anyone for any reason). The quest is called Dungeons of Daemonheim. We battle our way deep underneath the castle, through 60 floors of monsters, necromancers, puzzles, skill-obstacles, grotesque stalkers, gigantic demons, and other unfathomable horrors, all the while finding clues and texts that start to explain why the castle is there and why it's being tunneled under. We learn that the Mahjarrat Bilrach is responsible, and that we're actually in pursuit of him. We eventually learn that he's actually trying to free Zamorak who is trapped at the bottom of Daemonheim, which obviously has huge implications for the rest of Runescape. Thus, our goal is to reach the bottom of Daemonheim to stop Bilrach from dooming us all. Sounds like a pretty epic quest, right? Now assign each floor a level and introduce the prestige system: The Dungeons of Daemonheim quest becomes the Dungeoneering skill. Like Lep said, it doesn't matter what you call the skill -- Dungeoneering just represents your skill and experience in regards to exploring Daemonheim. What matters is that without the levels and prestige system, the Dungeoneering skill would undoubtedly be the Dungeons of Daemonheim quest (and would be unanimously lauded as the best quest EVER). Dungeoneering is a quest with the mechanics of a skill and the rewards system of a minigame.

You NEED a wolper and arc necklace to mage-slay. I can't stress that enough. Not using them is like not using strength boosting gear or potions for melee. I must also remind again that mage-slaying WILL lose you money, especially before 93 slayer.

Mage-slaying, except in the case of ice wyrms, is not good. That said, I did it from 86-97 magic. You can pretty much mage anything that doesn't have incredibly high magic defense (so don't mage miths, dark beasts, spirit mages, waterfiends). use claws of guthix or wind surge until you can wolper scroll to 96 (that way you have two minutes to fire surge before you scroll again). Wolpertingers are very important for mage-slaying. So is an arc necklace and SoL. Don't do it without those. You should consider waiting till 93 slayer, because you'll get about 200k mage exp per ice wyrm task on average.

That was a good story. Not a lot to discuss here, I think, but I'll say that I use my Explorer's Ring 3 every single day for farm runs.

1. So you agree with me that quests involve some sort of challenge or goal for the player to complete. See what happens when we go back to the start and target each point specifically? Turns out we were arguing over something we agree on. However, I go a bit further and define certain "core" elements of questing (problems to be solved, puzzles, boss fights, uncovering of lore). These elements are not present in every quest, but they're common enough to be considered. 2. I disagree. Your main argument is that the lore in Dungeoneering is largely self-containd; it does not affect anything outside of Daemonheim and may only be a small distraction in future quests (such as using your Dungeoneering level to unlock a dungeon). The lore in Dungeoneering is directly related to the Mysteries of the Mahjarrat storyline, and the conclusion of the Dungeoneering skill will have a huge impact on the rest of Runescape. SPOILERS: In Bilrach's Chronicles we learn that the "Rift" at the bottom of Daemonheim is actually the door to where Zamorak is locked up. Bilrach intends to free Zamorak into the world, which would enact the Edicts of Guthix, destroying us all. As I'm sure you remember, Azzanadra intends to free Zaros into the world, so the fact that we have two all-powerful Mahjarrat Generals who are planning to unleash their gods, plus the fact that another Mahjarrat is intending to BECOME a god makes the Dungeoneering skill pretty important in the grand scheme of things. In conclusion, you're wrong that Dungeoneering lore is self-contained and does affect anything outside of itself. 3. I haven't argued that skills are the core reason for questing (but I do believe that the drive to test one's skills -- whether in the real world or Runescape -- is a good reason to go questing or adventuring), so I don't know why we keep talking about this. I believe that skills are an important ASPECT of questing because our avatars cannot just inherently know how to go about helping people. This is why I believe that high-level skill requirements should eventually come about; we'll inevitably find some problem in Runescape that requires an expert in certain skills to solve. It's only logical.

Another issue (which I think Squareroot already mentioned, but I'll reiterate) is that you can't just strip two players down to the weapons to determine which is better. Firstly, there are no situations in Runescape where that'd even be the case. Second, boosts such as strength and accuracy from gear, prayers, and potions all favor the rapier due to its speed. The rapier can hit nearly as high and almost always as accurately as the CLS, but FASTER. This is why the CLS can only outperform the CR on monsters that have incredibly high defense (Graardor and Zil, though Graar is only slightly weaker to the CLS), and in those situations, the maul outperforms the CLS due to the much higher strength and accuracy.

Silvertaler, we seem to be getting off track, so let's go back to the original argument: So here we find the two core issues: 1. What is questing? 2. Is the Dungeoneering skill similar to questing? From what I've gathered, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you feel that skills should have nothing to do with quests and that Dungeoneering is nothing like questing, correct? How would you define questing? In regards to Dungeoneering, I believe you're wrong due to the fact that Dungeoneering DOES contain many of the core elements of questing; that is, Dungeoneering presents a challenge or task for the player to complete, offers puzzles, boss fights, and a TON of lore (more lore than most quests, actually). However, Dungeoneering is still a skill, so it also contains levels and grinding. I'll wait for you to post your definition of questing before I continue. EDIT: Sadly, I think that's the most likely scenario. <_< Really, i dont think quests should have epic high skill requirements. You should not have to grind 90 herblore or similar skill just to do a high level quest, it should have low requirements BUT be a hard quest that would be inadvisable to do at a low level. I was actually responding to the second part of his post. Sorry for not clarifying.

Sadly, I think that's the most likely scenario. <_<

Best. Troll-dismantling. Ever. :thumbup: It's actually called 'being troll bait'. No offense to you Zaaps but you wasted a lot of time on someone who is only trying to get a rise out of you. Which I assume they did. I sincerely thought that Renshae was trolling at first, but after he/she offered his/her stats and BH rank as evidence of whatever it is he/she was trying to prove, I thought otherwise. Yeah, Renshae could be an extremely intelligent troll, but I highly doubt it based on their responses so far.

Bravo, Zaaps. =D>

Wow, I love this thread even more now.

Yes, we know.